[3.5] The DM has placed himself in the game

[Doctor Despair]

I'm currently playing an epic bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?472134-Could-I-get-some-opinions-feedback-on-this-bard-build) in a (currently) level 21 campaign. We've got two primarily melee/offtank characters, a druid, and a character optimized for disguise who appears to be sliding in a chaotic evil alignment. The main questline has thusfar involved a poison that has been killing deities and "dark scrying" (which I would assume is some homebrew interpretation of epic divination and conceal seeds) that otherwise appears to bypass normal scrying restrictions at the cost of a soul. Naturally the chaotic-neutral-going-on-evil character is trying to figure out how these poisons and scrying techniques work for himself "purely out of academic interest", though that might be of use later on. The campaign has been very interesting thusfar, and I had been considering what motivated my bard specifically now that he is at an epic level. I had considered orchestrating some sort of party betrayal later on to gain the trust of whatever enemy we discover who has been poisoning the gods, assuming the poisoner is intelligent enough to require something like that to get more information about him/her, but something has happened that has distracted me.

The druid had been making a running joke that she follows "Joe-ism" (the DM) for a few sessions, but it has now become apparent that the DM has actually humored her and has declared in all seriousness that it is common knowledge only among deities that there is an over-deity named Joe whom they are all inclined to worship/recognize, which to my mind means it is conceivable that I should contact and obtain an audience with him. As can be seen in the build, this bard can fascinate every single god in Deities and Demigods and use a subsequent suggestion on them. Assuming this, too, would function on the DM, what sort of suggestions can you think of the now-vulnerable DM that would be funny/useful?

[Segev]

An "over-deity" is rarely vulnerable, as their only mechanics are often "they can't be adversely affected, and can do anything." When the "over-deity" is the GM's avatar...yeah, you're not touching him. It won't matter how optimized you are. The rules won't work in the face of GM fiat excused by over-deity status within the game itself.

[daremetoidareyo]

I'm currently playing an epic bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?472134-Could-I-get-some-opinions-feedback-on-this-bard-build) in a (currently) level 21 campaign. We've got two primarily melee/offtank characters, a druid, and a character optimized for disguise who appears to be sliding in a chaotic evil alignment. The main questline has thusfar involved a poison that has been killing deities and "dark scrying" (which I would assume is some homebrew interpretation of epic divination and conceal seeds) that otherwise appears to bypass normal scrying restrictions at the cost of a soul. Naturally the chaotic-neutral-going-on-evil character is trying to figure out how these poisons and scrying techniques work for himself "purely out of academic interest", though that might be of use later on. The campaign has been very interesting thusfar, and I had been considering what motivated my bard specifically now that he is at an epic level. I had considered orchestrating some sort of party betrayal later on to gain the trust of whatever enemy we discover who has been poisoning the gods, assuming the poisoner is intelligent enough to require something like that to get more information about him/her, but something has happened that has distracted me.

The druid had been making a running joke that she follows "Joe-ism" (the DM) for a few sessions, but it has now become apparent that the DM has actually humored her and has declared in all seriousness that it is common knowledge only among deities that there is an over-deity named Joe whom they are all inclined to worship/recognize, which to my mind means it is conceivable that I should contact and obtain an audience with him. As can be seen in the build, this bard can fascinate every single god in Deities and Demigods and use a subsequent suggestion on them. Assuming this, too, would function on the DM, what sort of suggestions can you think of the now-vulnerable DM that would be funny/useful?

Pizza for everyone

[Gabrosin]

Pizza for everyone

This. Since there's no game mechanism that's going to overcome Rule 0, no matter how strenuously you argue, you would be better off "suggesting" something fun for the whole group. It's much more likely to get you a positive result than any sort of selfish request you make for yourself or your character.

[daremetoidareyo]

This. Since there's no game mechanism that's going to overcome Rule 0, no matter how strenuously you argue, you would be better off "suggesting" something fun for the whole group. It's much more likely to get you a positive result than any sort of selfish request you make for yourself or your character.

Yeah, that's why I suggested that.
Believe it?

[Doctor Despair]

I'd definitely be down for that! I'm just trying to think about how to do it without meta-ing in character, you know? Like... first the bard would have to wish (read: suggest the DM use wish) for, like... some sort of knowledge? Like maybe a fully successful bardic knowledge check on everything (assuming that this is the last session) that would not leave him insane, and then pizza?

[Gabrosin]

I'd definitely be down for that! I'm just trying to think about how to do it without meta-ing in character, you know? Like... first the bard would have to wish (read: suggest the DM use wish) for, like... some sort of knowledge? Like maybe a fully successful bardic knowledge check on everything (assuming that this is the last session) that would not leave him insane, and then pizza?

At the point at which the DM has been made manifest as a game entity, your fourth wall is already gone.

[nedz]

Hmm, I was expecting an DMPC tale of woe but instead ...

Has your DM given himself this over-deity a stat block ?

If the answer to this question is Yes, then you can kill him :smallamused:

If not - see if you can persuade him to set one up :smallamused:

[Dekion]

As can be seen in the build, this bard can fascinate every single god in Deities and Demigods and use a subsequent suggestion on them. Assuming this, too, would function on the DM, what sort of suggestions can you think of the now-vulnerable DM that would be funny/useful?

I may be missing something, but aside from being charming to the extreme, how do you overcome that all deities are immune to mind-affecting effects?

[MisterKaws]

Hmm, I was expecting an DMPC tale of woe but instead ...

Has your DM given himself this over-deity a stat block ?

If the answer to this question is Yes, then you can kill him :smallamused:

If not - see if you can persuade him to set one up :smallamused:

So...persuade him into turning himself vulnerable to...persuasion?

[TheYell]

So...persuade him into turning himself vulnerable to...persuasion?

Start by buying him a new hat.

http://www.militariacollection.com/rsi/duxcap3.htm

[ExLibrisMortis]

Ask what your DM's real-life level is, and try Intimidate to make them cower? Pull this joke once, then threaten to pull it again any time there aren't enough cookies/crisps/turkey-stuffed bears at the table.

Edit: Maybe use Transdimensional Spell to break the fourth wall.

[Doctor Despair]

I may be missing something, but aside from being charming to the extreme, how do you overcome that all deities are immune to mind-affecting effects?

Music of the Gods, the epic feat, allows uses of bardic music to affect things that are normally immune to mind-affecting effects. After that it's just a matter of pumping the DCs to absurd levels. :)


Hmm, I was expecting an DMPC tale of woe but instead ...

Has your DM given himself this over-deity a stat block ?

If the answer to this question is Yes, then you can kill him :smallamused:

If not - see if you can persuade him to set one up :smallamused:

He hasn't! I'll try a real-life diplomacy check to get him to make one ;) Though that doesn't mean he'll show it to me, haha. Thusfar the two melee characters have replaced Bahumutt and Heironius in their respective roles (though I think he's doing divine ranks differently, since they are starting at 0 and seem to have some growth potention in some capacity), and... I think I'm enroute for my bard to become Bocobb, so that trickery is par for the course. :smalltongue:


Ask what your DM's real-life level is, and try Intimidate to make them cower? Pull this joke once, then threaten to pull it again any time there aren't enough cookies/crisps/turkey-stuffed bears at the table.

Edit: Maybe use Transdimensional Spell to break the fourth wall.

That's why I posted another thread asking about alternate bardic music effects to penetrate mind blank effects! I was hoping to be able to do other things than fascinate and suggest. Someone mentioned an ACF of bard that had a ton of debuffs, but I couldn't find it anywhere. :/ All the other bardic PrCs didn't seem to have much worth taking. Probably Warchanter and Heartfire Fanner were the PrCs that seemed to be of use, though the double feat dip for Fanner is kinda steep and the five-level dip for Warchanter to get access to Combine Songs also seems a little steep when I could just be pumping the DCs with subsequent bard levels. Inspire Awe is kinda close to an intimidate check, though at best I'd be able to make the DM "shaken" due to the probably HD difference here, haha.