Death Attacks: How good and how to build

[TheCreatorT]

So some prestige classes have the ability Death Attack (or something similiar like the Reaping Mauler and its Devastating grapple). My question is, how viable are builds centered around these abilities, and what prestige classes with such abilities do you like best, along with similiar questions along these lines. Y'all know the deal.

[Red Fel]

So some prestige classes have the ability Death Attack (or something similiar like the Reaping Mauler and its Devastating grapple). My question is, how viable are builds centered around these abilities, and what prestige classes with such abilities do you like best, along with similiar questions along these lines. Y'all know the deal.

Not terrifically.

Let's use the standard Death Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm#deathAttack), as seen in the Assassin PrC (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm). And the relevant language:
If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice). While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the assassin’s class level + the assassin’s Int modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim is rendered helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the assassin. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the assassin has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds.

If a death attack is attempted and fails (the victim makes her save) or if the assassin does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before he can attempt another death attack.

Let's parse that. In order to use a Death Attack - just to use the thing - you have to (1) study the victim for 3 rounds, (2) make a Sneak Attack with a melee weapon, and (3) successfully deal damage.

So, already, we know that Death Attack is a much more limited form of Sneak Attack, and people already complain about just how many creatures there are who are immune to it, or ways to become immune to it. Death Attack takes Sneak Attack and adds "You can get this bonus effect if you waste time for three rounds instead helping to take down the target."

So what's that bonus effect? Well, the target must make a Fort save (DC 10 + Assassin level + Int, max DC 20 + Int) or die/ be paralyzed. Fort saves tend to be a strong save for basically everything, so that's not terribly appealing. Not to mention that it doesn't scale well. Say you have a Rogue 5/ Assassin 5 with 16 Int. That's a DC 18 Fort save. Against the sort of enemies you're facing at 10th level, a DC 18 Fort save doesn't always mean a lot. And that's assuming they're susceptible to Sneak Attacks in the first place.

Reaping Mauler is in many ways worse; while it isn't a crit-based or precision attack, and therefore doesn't trigger immunity to such, it requires you to successfully maintain a grapple for three rounds - which isn't easy to begin with - plus the enemy has to fail a DC 15 + Wis save. Add to that the fact that certain spells, such as Freedom of Movement or Heart of Water, can completely disable this ability, and you can see why it's flawed.

Is that to say that these abilities are useless? No. In a low-op setting, they're amazing. In high-op, however, it's preferable to avoid things that give the enemy an opportunity to save. Particularly multiple opportunities.

[TheCreatorT]

I just want to clarify something real quick; I'm not trying to use this ability as an end all kill all etc. ability. I was just curious, with its draw backs, how viable it is.

[gorfnab]

The 3.5 Assassin's Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=ij5bs0p6t49faqk3vpnd2ttpa7&topic=8273) has a decent section on how to boost the DC of death attack and how to decrease the target's fort save.

[ATHATH]

The Ebon Saint (enter with a Psionic Rogue) has a good pseudo-death attack that only takes one round to charge. Instead of killing the target, it adds a rider effect to the Sneak Attack, some of which don't allow saves. The ones that do have saves require Will saves instead of Fortitude saves to be resisted, and have a DC that is explicitly based on your character level, not your class level.

Legacy Champion can advance the Assassin's Death Attacks, if you want to use that variation.

[Gallowglass]

I think they work depending on the circumstance of the game.

In a traditional tabletop skirmish where the assassin is acting as a flank fighter and the entire combat is probably going to take 3-5 rounds its pretty useless. If you find a way to make it as a ranged attack rather than a melee attack (which would take some fiat) you could potentially get it to work as a surprise/round one sniper type action, then "watching the action" for the next three rounds before taking your second shot. But its poor action economy for such a game.

But its great if you want to be, you know, an assassin.

If you want to sneak through the enemy camp, into the tent of the commander, hiding in the shadows and, watching as he upbraids his subordinate then when he sends the captain away leaving the two of you alone, making your strike! Its great.

If you want to go to the royal ball in disguise as a handsome foreigner. While dancing you catch the eye of the duchess, drawing her closer as the song plays on until you finally come face to face. You take her hand, twirl her away (your razor ring scratching her palm, counting as a melee attack. When she spins around you have disappeared into the crowd, she feels strange, then collapses.

In these scenarios, you've loaded up with buffs (or debuffs that won't be detected) to make your strike have a better than average chance of success. But this is a solo adventure in a team game. Another reason that assassin's are difficult.

These kind of scenarios typically just don't work in D&D where you have to drudge through a mound of HP to kill a foe and poisons are next to useless. These are the scenarios the death attack TRIES to accommodate.

So, does the mechanism actually allow these scenarios? Eh. Kind of. Presuming that the duchess didn't pack her stoneskin and other protective spells. Presuming that the military commander fails his save.

If you want to "optimize" to those kind of powers, you have to figure out how to take the DMs story and make it so you can solve it with the type of scenarios that your power works rather that traditional matboard combat, and without alienating your bored teammates who would rather mass invis into the camp and lay waste to the commander, or let the wizard kill the queen with a scry and die spell while they hang out at the tavern.

Generally speaking, if I'm with a small group (2-3 players) who want to think their way through the adventure rather than fight, I think these kind of powers become viable. If you are one player in a group of 6-8, I wouldn't bother. Every situation is going to turn into an initiative order combat/resolve, and any single activity that ties up multiple rounds of your time makes you a very inefficient producer which, in turn, is going to frustrate and bore you.

[Kelb_Panthera]

If you find a way to make it as a ranged attack rather than a melee attack (which would take some fiat)

Sniper's Eye spell. Assassin 4, complete adventurer and SpC.

[Gnaeus]

Worse, it is DM/campaign dependent. Any enemy that is worth studying for 3 rounds before assassinating is probably a boss. And many DMs will get mad if you kill the boss they designed for the party to fight in one hit. Many DMs will respond by making important enemies immune, giving them better senses so they know you are there, or just fudging their saves. So all the times you really want the trick to work, it won't. Unless you know the DM well, check before the campaign starts.

[Snowbluff]

The Marrulurk is a much better death attacker than any class.

[Deadline]

The Assassin class and Black Flame Zealot class stack to determine your Death Attack DC. Assuming no early entry shenanigans, you can hit a base DC of 25 + Int (10 assassin levels plus 5 BFZ levels). With enough boosts, you can get the DC up there, but it's unlikely to work on most level appropriate challenges no matter what level you are (a 1st level Assassin has a DC 11 + Int Death Attack). Add to that the fact that you'll likely only get to trigger it once per encounter, and you'll find it remarkably non-useful. When it works, it's neat, but it's not a tactic you should rely on.

[Cerefel]

IIRC the Telflammar Shadowlord Death Attack stacks as well. Also, isn't there an assassin spell that eliminates the 3-round study period for death attacks?

EDIT: Yes there is. Deathsight from Complete Mage.

[Doctor Despair]

The Unseeley Fey template lets you buff your charisma to cause debuffs to enemy saves within five feet, which is fine for a stealthy assassin build. :)

Edit: If you pay off each of your bloodline levels at level 1 (being useless for the early game, but this is theorycrafting, so for the purposes of discussion you are the party's packmule/wand user/whatever), you can increase your cap for skill ranks and enter assassin for your third level. If you can find a bard and pay them to use Inspire Greatness on you when you level up, you could do it one level sooner -- if you could afford it. I'm not sure how much it costs to hire a high-level bard to essentially play a song for you. If you spec into Telflammar Shadowlord and then Black Flame Zealot, you can get your DC to be 28 + Int without feats, and you can pump a stat pretty dang high. Grab the feat "Favored in Guild – Jaezred Chaulssin" (flavor it to Telflammar Shadowlords instead of the rebel stuff it's tied to) and take "Ability Focus: Death Attack" to get +6 to your DC, setting it to 34 +Int... or 35 if you can find that bard.

Iirc you can't use Death Attack on things immune to crits, so Deathstrike Bracers are a necessesity to let you crit things that can't be crit like oozes, elementals, and undead. You can use the deathsight spell to make a DA attempt in the first round, then again on the fourth round, sixth, etc. You'll want to buff both intelligence for the DC and charisma for the Unseeley Fey debuff. You'll also want to invest in things to help you disguise yourself since, as others have pointed out, this will be more useful out of a straight combat than in one with a party. You can get at least like 40 in both Intelligence and Charisma without doing too much work, so that's a net 40 to the DC, setting you at a DC 75 Save or Die effect so long as they don't see through your disguise, which is enough to kill just about anything even at CR20 that isn't outright immune to death effects or mind-affecting (note: this will be a lot).

With all these rogueish classes, though, you'll have plenty of skill points for knowledge local, disguise, bluff, diplomacy, and sense motive, so it shouldn't be too hard to do that effectively. If you'd rather go stealthy, things like Darkstalker and such are a necessity, though I warn you that no amount of assassin optimization will allow you to be completely unseen at high levels. Things like Dweomersight, Sense Magic, and Mindsight means that stealth really doesn't work once things start scaling (although mindsight can be stopped by seven levels in Slayer at least). The main issue with all of this is that it is an extremely simple matter for the DM to make any creature or person immune to death effects. There are semi-cheap items that even grant the immunity. If your DM is kind, he may allow you to make your own epic feat on par with the Bardic epic feat "Music of the Gods" that allows them to keep using their bardic music. Something like... "Legendary Assassin" with steep requirements that allow you to death attack things that are immune to death attacks, or something like that.

If not, this is still a fun build at low levels! The level 2 entry into assassin means that at level 2 you are giving enemies a save-or-die effect of about DC 11 + Feats + Int + Charisma, which is nothing to scoff at since a level 2 barbarian only has 2 + con to his save. If you get a wand of Deathsight, you could even do it round-one. That's probably about the appropriate DPS for your class. Assuming the enemy fails, you can just about kill an enemy every 2 rounds by yourself, which is pretty cool at low levels. You'll hit like a paladin! The level of optimization it takes to get there is kind of silly, though, considering all the paladin has to do is decide what color their greatsword should be. :p

[daremetoidareyo]

I just made a death attacker in the last villains competition. Although I used a weird species just to add some flavor, this is totally doable for a normal human and their ever so sweet bonus feat: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20332970&postcount=42, replace icechucker with Spike Shooter (Races of Faerun p. 158) to make it definitely rules legal, and go to town.