Destroying a plane

[Flickerdart]

Sometimes, you become so powerful that you can kill everyone. Sometimes, you become even more powerful, so that you can not only kill everyone but destroy everything - turn mountains to ash, crush planets, etc. This level of power is easy enough to attain.

But how do you go one step further, and kill an entire plane of existence, such that not only does nothing remain, but there is no plane left to plane shift to or rebuild?

I am familiar with Pandorym, the Elder Evil (from the book Elder Evils) whose stated goal is to destroy the Material Plane after killing all the gods. He doesn't have stats for doing this, but the book says he can do it, so it seems legit. It would also be nice to have a smaller-scale plane nuke, for example if I wanted to delete a rival wizard's genesis demiplane. Antigenesis is not quite the same, since it kills life but leaves the fabric of the plane intact.

I am only interested in content directly from published 3.5 material that destroys planes. I realize that one can always have the PCs do a quest that sees them become gods or otherwise command their power, but this answer is not interesting precisely because it is so obvious.

[Inevitability]

Well of Many Worlds + Sphere of Annihilation.

Entirely filling a plane with Spheres of Annihilation is almost the same, but certain characters (such as Entropomancers) could theoretically Plane Shift in and remove the spheres.

[GreyBlack]

Is Epic Spellcasting on the table?

[Flickerdart]

Well of Many Worlds + Sphere of Annihilation.

Entirely filling a plane with Spheres of Annihilation is almost the same, but certain characters (such as Entropomancers) could theoretically Plane Shift in and remove the spheres.
Insufficient - making a plane uninhabitable and immediately fatal is close to destroying it, but not truly enough. Imagine that a deity has taken the plane under his wing, and has the capability to add and remove matter as it wills, but cannot simply create a new plane from scratch.


Is Epic Spellcasting on the table?
Yes. I imagine epic content will have most if not all of the ways to truly destroy a plane.

[Belzyk]

Alter reality....

[Flickerdart]

Alter reality....

Elaborate. Alter Reality has the following powers:



The deity can duplicate any spell of 9th level or lower as a standard action...The deity also can duplicate a spell with any metamagic feat...The deity can render a magical or supernatural effect permanent...

The deity can create temporary, nonmagical objects...The deity also can create permanent nonmagical objects...

The deity can create temporary magic items or creatures...

The deity can reshape a landscape, creating any type of terrain the deity can imagine...


How do you plan to use sub-9th level magic/metamagic, nonmagical objects, non-artifact magic items, creatures, and terrain to destroy a plane?

[Belzyk]

Elaborate. Alter Reality has the following powers:



How do you plan to use sub-9th level magic/metamagic, nonmagical objects, non-artifact magic items, creatures, and terrain to destroy a plane?

The last phrase create any land they want or reshape it. Depending on how you take it, you can easily reshape anything into nothing.

[Doctor Despair]

The last phrase create any land they want or reshape it. Depending on how you take it, you can easily reshape anything into nothing.

That would only destroy the *landscape* as written, though, leaving the space in the plane untouched, wouldn't it? Even if the deity reshaped the plane into something empty and devoid of all matter, it is still existing as a vacuum, isn't it?

[Belzyk]

That would only destroy the *landscape* as written, though, leaving the space in the plane untouched, wouldn't it? Even if the deity reshaped the plane into something empty and devoid of all matter, it is still existing as a vacuum, isn't it?

Idk is something that is nothing real in your campeign?

[Doctor Despair]

Idk is something that is nothing real in your campeign?

Well, none of my campaigns have gone to space, but I would imagine it exists. As Flickerdart put it, he'd like to *destroy* the plane, but leaving it empty seems as destroyed as it would be if you filled it with spheres of annihilation.

[Belzyk]

Well, none of my campaigns have gone to space, but I would imagine it exists. As Flickerdart put it, he'd like to *destroy* the plane, but leaving it empty seems as destroyed as it would be if you filled it with spheres of annihilation.

To me the way alter reality is worded a Deity would be able to reshape the entire plane into anything ergo into nonexistance. But that's my take on alter reality.

[Âmesang]

Yes. I imagine epic content will have most if not all of the ways to truly destroy a plane.
This reminds me of wanting to stat out the Invoked Devastation from WORLD OF GREYHAWK®. Instead of using the transport seed to transport people from one plane to another, I'd use it to transport one plane into another. Basically creating one, massive planar bleed/rip/breach/junction/what-have-you.

Would having one plane devour another count?

[frogglesmash]

Couldn't you use alter reality to temporarily create a custom magic item that deletes planes from existence?

[Strigon]

To me the way alter reality is worded a Deity would be able to reshape the entire plane into anything ergo into nonexistance. But that's my take on alter reality.

But nonexistence isn't anything.
What you're describing is making something completely empty, but the physical space it occupied still actually exists. Like if the moon suddenly disappeared, there is absolutely nothing there, but you can still go to the place where it was. You've removed the landscape of the moon, but not the space itself.
On the other hand, the topic discussed is more like making the place nonexistent, in the same way that, for example, Narnia doesn't exist. It's not that Narnia exists, but it's an empty void - there is no Narnia at all.
Landscape only applies to the matter within a plane, it doesn't apply to the plane itself.

[Belzyk]

But nonexistence isn't anything.
What you're describing is making something completely empty, but the physical space it occupied still actually exists. Like if the moon suddenly disappeared, there is absolutely nothing there, but you can still go to the place where it was. You've removed the landscape of the moon, but not the space itself.
On the other hand, the topic discussed is more like making the place nonexistent, in the same way that, for example, Narnia doesn't exist. It's not that Narnia exists, but it's an empty void - there is no Narnia at all.
Landscape only applies to the matter within a plane, it doesn't apply to the plane itself.

What I'm explaining is you can turn the entire demi plane or plane into nothing and make it not exist I mean if nothing else works your over Deity can just wipe a multiverse out.

[Doctor Despair]

What I'm explaining is you can turn the entire demi plane or plane into nothing and make it not exist I mean if nothing else works your over Deity can just wipe a multiverse out.

I'm assuming Flickerdart was hoping for some ideas that don't require you to achieve infinite power and become lord of all creation. :p Though at least you suggested something. I'm just here to poke holes apparently.

[cfalcon]

Man, this is interesting.

Could you use True Shapechange (which allows you to assume the form of any object or creature) to become an object larger than the physical extents of the plane? If the plane is literally infinite in size, you may have to worry about if you can become a bigger infinity or some jive, but lets ignore that one. If you become something larger than plane, and you choose the thing such that it meaningfully encloses the plane and holds it, then you could try triggering the optional Alter Size. If- and of course, this is an if- this actually compresses the plane, which is inside you, you can make the plane the size of a grain of sand.

This doesn't destroy it, but it's a pretty good start.

The conditions:
The object you assume has to be larger than the plane.
The object you assume has to be able to "hold the edges" of the plane, in some fashion. You would choose an object with this property- if you can't, it fails.
The object you assume might need to be able to transition from incorporeal to corporeal, if becomeing something larger than the universe would bump in to something. Alternatively, you might consider destroying all matter in the universe as a prerequisite.



I think the grain of sand approach, if feasible, would then lead to the plane being able to be destroyed by another means? If you find "become larger than the universe, hold the edges, and shrink" to be viable, we can discuss how to destroy the sand-sized plane.

Note also that if you are under the restriction that the object whose form you assume must actually exist, you must build it first (presumably in some other plane).

[GreyBlack]

I think we have to define "plane" here. If we expand the Plane to include the entirety of a universe, including Spacetime, then we're going to need to up our game. The best solution might be to create a hugely powerful singularity which will envelop all of Spacetime. However, that could take some time. Let me run the problem by some physicists, see what we can come up with.

[cfalcon]

Is there a way in core to apply those planar traits? We could MAYBE make time run backwards in the plane by applying the Flowing Time trait (time can flow slower, and nothing implies that time's flow is always positive- if you slow time to a negative value, that should accomplish it going backwards). If that's on the table, you can simply wait for it to unbirth itself.

This would fail if the plane has an infinite history.

[Strigon]

What I'm explaining is you can turn the entire demi plane or plane into nothing and make it not exist I mean if nothing else works your over Deity can just wipe a multiverse out.

How can you do that?
Turning a plane's landscape into nothing isn't the same thing as removing it entirely.
Imagine you have a computer simulation of a world; we'll call this world our plane. What you're describing is making the entire world's terrain empty; there is no air, water, or land. Despite that, however, your computer can still load up that simulation just fine; it's still a place that can be explored and simulated - even though there's no point in exploring it or simulating it.
That is fundamentally different from deleting the world itself. If you delete the world, there is no more simulation to run. Trying to access it leads to your computer saying there is no such file, no world there to access.

Simply removing the terrain doesn't mean the plane itself stops existing, any more than scrubbing a painting with paint thinner stops the canvas from existing.

[HunterOfJello]

Current ideas:

1. Figure out a way to use a plane of existence as a material component in a spell.

2. Attach the plane to another one that ruins it and incorporates it in a way that makes it pointless to attempt to reshape (The Abyss?).

3. Create a second plane coterminous or coexistant to the one you dislike and set up wondrous items that constantly cast Mass Manifest (Manual of the Planes) every 25 feet on the entire plane. This will pull all creatures and unattended objects onto your second plane and make the other one permanently devoid of anything. Anything that appears in the disliked plane and doesn't have spell resistance is instantly shunted out.

4. Destroy all matter in the entire plane and then fill it with wondrous items casting Zone of Respite. Now nothing can ever enter it again and it's effectively dead.

[Belzyk]

How can you do that?
Turning a plane's landscape into nothing isn't the same thing as removing it entirely.
Imagine you have a computer simulation of a world; we'll call this world our plane. What you're describing is making the entire world's terrain empty; there is no air, water, or land. Despite that, however, your computer can still load up that simulation just fine; it's still a place that can be explored and simulated - even though there's no point in exploring it or simulating it.
That is fundamentally different from deleting the world itself. If you delete the world, there is no more simulation to run. Trying to access it leads to your computer saying there is no such file, no world there to access.

Simply removing the terrain doesn't mean the plane itself stops existing, any more than scrubbing a painting with paint thinner stops the canvas from existing.

Well I mean deities can do whatever. If you really want to destroy planes just release pandyrim or whatever it's name is. Problem solved

[Flickerdart]

This reminds me of wanting to stat out the Invoked Devastation from WORLD OF GREYHAWK®. Instead of using the transport seed to transport people from one plane to another, I'd use it to transport one plane into another. Basically creating one, massive planar bleed/rip/breach/junction/what-have-you.

Would having one plane devour another count?
I would imagine so - something would remain, but it would be neither one plane nor the other.


Couldn't you use alter reality to temporarily create a custom magic item that deletes planes from existence?
It could, hypothetically - but what spells are you using in this custom item?


What I'm explaining is you can turn the entire demi plane or plane into nothing and make it not exist I mean if nothing else works your over Deity can just wipe a multiverse out.
No, Alter Reality cannot turn something into nothing. It can create and reshape terrain, but not space.


Man, this is interesting.

Could you use True Shapechange (which allows you to assume the form of any object or creature) to become an object larger than the physical extents of the plane?
This would certainly be an option for small demiplanes. I am not sure if it works, since Alter Self says you can only shrink 100 pounds of stuff, but it might be possible to use another method to reduce the weight of the entire demiplane to under 100 pounds by deleting enough matter. Making it very very small and unable to fit anything is certainly close to destroying it, and may make it easier to do the job for real.


Is there a way in core to apply those planar traits? We could MAYBE make time run backwards in the plane by applying the Flowing Time trait (time can flow slower, and nothing implies that time's flow is always positive- if you slow time to a negative value, that should accomplish it going backwards). If that's on the table, you can simply wait for it to unbirth itself.

This would fail if the plane has an infinite history.
I love the idea! Certainly for people who play the long game. A deity of high enough DR could designate an entire plane as his divine realm (or designate parts of it at a time), and apply reverse flowing time.


1. Figure out a way to use a plane of existence as a material component in a spell.
Clever. Are there spells where you can use anything as a material component, like how banishment accepts anything as a focus?



2. Attach the plane to another one that ruins it and incorporates it in a way that makes it pointless to attempt to reshape (The Abyss?).

Can planes be connected in larger-scale ways than just a small portal?


3. Create a second plane coterminous or coexistant to the one you dislike and set up wondrous items that constantly cast Mass Manifest (Manual of the Planes) every 25 feet on the entire plane. This will pull all creatures and unattended objects onto your second plane and make the other one permanently devoid of anything. Anything that appears in the disliked plane and doesn't have spell resistance is instantly shunted out.
This feels like the Sphere of Annihilation idea - making the plane uninhabitable and unenterable is good, but not quite good enough.


4. Destroy all matter in the entire plane and then fill it with wondrous items casting Zone of Respite. Now nothing can ever enter it again and it's effectively dead.
Sadly, ZoR is SR: Yes so it has the same flaw as the previous plan.

[Strigon]

Well I mean deities can do whatever. If you really want to destroy planes just release pandyrim or whatever it's name is. Problem solved

Well, I certainly won't argue that; it would destroy a plane or two.

[Belzyk]

Well, I certainly won't argue that; it would destroy a plane or two.

I mean th8nk ing on it. It's the only being printed in a book that Litteraly is stated as being able to destroy existance.

[Bohandas]

You could cause it to fall into another plane, like what happened to the third layer of Arcadia

[Bohandas]

To me the way alter reality is worded a Deity would be able to reshape the entire plane into anything ergo into nonexistance. But that's my take on alter reality.

I didn't get that from it at all. I found it overpowered compared to other divine abilities but I didn't get the impression it was that overpowered

[Thurbane]

Nothing useful to add, but I couldn't resist...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/FIM-92_Stinger_USMC.JPG/300px-FIM-92_Stinger_USMC.JPG

[Coidzor]

You can definitely make a planar layer fall into another plane, we know this courtesy of the brain trust that is the Harmonium.

Lolth can steal away material plane worlds, and has. Possibly can even grab entire crystal spheres(?!?)

I suppose it might be possible to make a planar breach between a demiplane and the ethereal that it's similar to destroying the demiplane?

[Cerefel]

It's possible to create a rift between a given plane and the Astral Plane using a Portable Hole and a Bag of Holding. From there it's definitely the realm of DM fiat, but it s a start.

[Inevitability]

Cast Magic Weapon on the plane (assuming it counts as an improvised weapon). With the metamagic components variant rule, a +1 magic weapon can count as a material component for a Quickened Align Weapon. Cast the spell and watch the plane get destroyed.

[Doctor Despair]

Cast Magic Weapon on the plane (assuming it counts as an improvised weapon). With the metamagic components variant rule, a +1 magic weapon can count as a material component for a Quickened Align Weapon. Cast the spell and watch the plane get destroyed.

Under this assumption, would the plane be in the possession of its patron deity (or just the strongest deity in the plane) and therefore be allowed the deity's save against the Magic Weapon spell?

[Inevitability]

Under this assumption, would the plane be in the possession of its patron deity (or just the strongest deity in the plane) and therefore be allowed the deity's save against the Magic Weapon spell?

I'm fairly sure the deity has to be 'attending' it. Just distract it for a second (perhaps release some kind of Elder Evil to make sure it's occupied) and cast the spell.

[Jowgen]

I'd say the first question is what plane you're after.

Demiplanes are most certainly the easiest. If it was magically created, un-creating it shouldn't be the hardest of things.

Outer planes are arguably the next most fragile, as their existence is based on the balance of cosmic forces. From what I recall skimming through Afro's threads, there have been several instances of "pieces" of out planes breaking off and falling into another because the alignment balance in that area switched.

With the material, a big question is whether you're using cyrystal spheres to section off the different sorta-solar-systems. If the task is to just completely annihilate one crystal sphere, such as Greyspace, I am sure something effective can be cooked up. If you want everything... then things get more tricky.

The inner planes make up elemental building blocks of everything and keep each other in balance naturally, so I don't think there is ANY getting rid of those. In terms of transitive planes... I'd say Astra is probably indestructable, and the ethereal has things like the Demiplane of imprisonment in it, which makes it a though target; but getting rid of Shadow might be feasible.

[Bronk]

There are a number of living planes... I don't have book access right now, but one was basically a giant telepathic stomach, and another was just a huge mass of meat that was continually shaved down by a giant upside down blender monster. If you could find a way to kill them, maybe disintegrate them, that might be a start.

There's also the evil flying ship 'Demonwing', which is itself counts as an abyssal layer. It might have all the same problems with destruction as any other plane or layer, but at least it's a finite object that you can keep track of from the outside.

[Beriorn]

Become the most competent of Gargauth ever. The Lord Who Watches plans to move Faerûn into Baator and make it its tenth layer, over which he rules. So while it won't exactly destroy it, it will crash the plane. With no survivors.

[Kiton2]

How about layers?

As in, if all you need to kill is an individual layer, physically, and don't much care about what happens to the rest of that plane?

Everything in it needs to die - preferably fast enough that it can't escape as well; the real goal is that demigod/demon-lord thing that rules over it, but you know how it goes; "now it's personal" and whatnot.

Ideally I'd like to achieve this with some kind of massive bomb or death-ray. Maybe some kind of self-replicating spell or trap or something? It's senseless to think any massive elaborate ritual could do anything but fail after all. Better "now we're all sons of bitches" than waiting on some multi-prime alignment or some crap.

How much antimatter does it take to end an "infinite" layer? or does it literally go on forever further and further from a point you'd treat as origin?

[Jowgen]

I made a thread about creating a doomsday device out of voidstone (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?480268-Developing-a-Voidstone-Warhead). If used on a sufficiently grand scale, the finalized product might be able to help with this whole plane-destroying business. Firing one into a crystal spehere's sun or a plane's noted focal points seems like a decent start to me (singularity for the win?).

[nedz]

1. Figure out a way to use a plane of existence as a material component in a spell.

This is how I've always done it.

It's an Epic/Rule 0 spell obviously.

As an Epic spell you use it as mitigation. The actual result of the spell is unimportant: you are basically hacking the Epic spell system to get what you actually want as a side effect.

[Jormengand]

Does picking the entire plane up and putting it on another plane count?

Create an Energy Transformation Field keyed to a stupidly powerful epic spell that you don't have to know or be able to cast or even research, which is capable of transforming many lbs of stuff to another plane, willing or no. Fire ten levels of spells into it and watch as the spell drops the entire plane into, I dunno, Cania or the Elemental Plane of Fire.

Getting rid of the plane itself is a bit harder: you've only got rid of everything in the plane. There is a way around this, though, and it involves more energy transformation fields. Put one keyed to cast intensified vengeful gaze of god, one to cast irresistible finger of death, and one to cast, ooh, irresistible plane shift to shove a creature in the plane of negative energy. Why the PoNE? Well why not? Get some minions to shove immovable rods in them and activate them all at once. Henceforth, no living being can enter the plane without taking 3660 damage, dying, and being thrown on the PoNE. No nonliving being can enter the plane without epic magic because Plane Shift and Gate only transport creatures, not objects, and anyway, what's the point? Technically the plane hasn't been destroyed, but plane shifting there is deadly. The only way that a creature could counter this is by sending a squadron of immortal creatures into the plane repeatedly until they use up the plane shifting ETF faster than it can regain spell levels. The way around this is to polymorph into a Garbler and fire a SL infinite utterance into it. Just make sure you can actually get off the PoNE in time.

Alternatively, the plane is presumably colossal, given that there isn't a bigger size category. Therefore, a CL 32 animate objects (circle magic? Wild Surge and spell-to-power hacks?) will animate it, find some way to give it an intelligence score (PAO into a tree and then awaken? PAO into something with an INT score in the first place?) and then you can irresistible unname it in the face with a DC 51 truespeak check, which isn't exactly difficult (Guidance of the avatar and maximum ranks is +43 right off the bat). By the time the duration on the animating spell ends, the plane isn't a creature and Ritual of Renaming, or a true resurrection, at that, will both be impossible.

EDIT: Using a plane as a material component doesn't seem likely, because material components are explicitly physical, and a plane isn't really a physical object, though it's probably an object.

[dascarletm]

What created the multiverse in the world? If it is a being that has some semblance of stats, you can teleport through time to the plane's inception(Big If). You can then use your favored tactic of persuading said being to not create the plane.

You then not only remove it from existence, but remove everything it ever was from existence.

Perhaps you could spice things up and use quintessence/forced dream or something.

[Flickerdart]

Perhaps you could spice things up and use quintessence/forced dream or something.
Forced dream + quintessence is another viable way to nuke demiplanes, if the "forced dream only works on the plane" ruling works. Based on the old "dream of metal" trick you could bring the sarcophagus with the dreamer to a demiplane and then awaken him, winding back time to before the plane's conception.

[Jormengand]

If you attack the plane with Hammer and Piton and climb onto it, you share its space, so if you move, so does it. This means that you can pick up the entire plane and put it in another plane by shifting there. Not sure whether or not that counts...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Cast rockburst on the Elemental Plane of Earth? Make the whole plane blow up. This might not destroy the physical space that the EPoE occupied, but destroying it would destroy the conceptual idea of earth, thereby destroying any plane that requires earth to maintain its existence, such as most outer planes and the Material Plane.

[Jormengand]

I'm not sure the EPoE is monolithic enough to rockburst it, and destroying everything in the EPoE without destroying the plane itself wouldn't actually destroy the concept of earth; it would just destroy some earth.

[Bronk]

I just found out about a ninth level spell from one of the old Planescape books (Guide to the Ethereal Plane, p40): Demiplane Decay. It only works on planes younger in years than the caster has levels, and it isn't 3.5, but it's the only thing I've found that has ever been able to canonically destroy any kind of plane at all.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I know how to destroy a plane: put snakes on it. Just make sure Samuel L. Jackson is busy elsewhere.

[Flickerdart]

I just found out about a ninth level spell from one of the old Planescape books (Guide to the Ethereal Plane, p40): Demiplane Decay. It only works on planes younger in years than the caster has levels, and it isn't 3.5, but it's the only thing I've found that has ever been able to canonically destroy any kind of plane at all.

That's a pretty cool find. Looks like someone updated it to 3.5 here (http://geocities.bootstrike.com/Planescape%20Torment/The%20Clueless%20Inn/Campaign/7-Magic/FB4.htm). It's still basically homebrew, but good to know that there's precedent in history.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

You use gravity and physics!


1) Chain-gate an infinite amount of titans and/or solars.

2) Their mass being infinite, they collapse into a black hole with an infinite-radius event horizon.

3) The black hole collapses space so that the entire plane and all it used to contain occupies effectively zero space.

4) You get a new Big Bang, creating a new Prime Material plane... eventually.

[Jormengand]

You use gravity and physics!


1) Chain-gate an infinite amount of titans and/or solars.

2) Their mass being infinite, they collapse into a black hole with an infinite-radius event horizon.

3) The black hole collapses space so that the entire plane and all it used to contain occupies effectively zero space.

4) You get a new Big Bang, creating a new Prime Material plane... eventually.

I think that destroying all the substance of the plane is easy mode by this point: actually destroying the plane itself is harder. Also, black holes don't exist in D&D (although I did once brew a spell that made one, the area is minute by planar standards).

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Who says black holes don't exist in DnD? The material plane has them, along with stars and planets.



Also, some RL black holes aren't that small. There's at least one whose event horizon would fit our entire solar system.

[HolyDraconus]

Can I add to this and ask what exactly happens, by RAW, to inhabitants of an entire plane being wiped out? And no, I won't mention Iron Heart Surge any further than that.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Unfortunately, IHS can't get rid of mundane objects and the black hole is such an object, even if it's destroying the entire plane. Physics suck, don't they?

[Jormengand]

Can I add to this and ask what exactly happens, by RAW, to inhabitants of an entire plane being wiped out? And no, I won't mention Iron Heart Surge any further than that.

I don't think there are any rules on it; it's not a common occurrence.

[HolyDraconus]

Unfortunately, IHS can't get rid of mundane objects and the black hole is such an object, even if it's destroying the entire plane. Physics suck, don't they?
I'm taking this thread as extra serious and as such, won't resort to shenanigans and simply say "K".

I don't think there are any rules on it; it's not a common occurrence.
What about on a smaller scale, like a galaxy, or planet? Is it possible to extrapolate the results and simply upscale it?

[Strigon]

What about on a smaller scale, like a galaxy, or planet? Is it possible to extrapolate the results and simply upscale it?

Not really, since the two are fundamentally different. If you destroy the galaxy or planet someone is occupying, the person is simply dead. They might be deader than usual, but they wouldn't be a different kind of dead.
If you destroy the plane itself, however, it's possible their soul is lost in the process, making them an entirely different kind of dead. On the other hand, it might not be lost. Who can say?

[HolyDraconus]

Not really, since the two are fundamentally different. If you destroy the galaxy or planet someone is occupying, the person is simply dead. They might be deader than usual, but they wouldn't be a different kind of dead.
If you destroy the plane itself, however, it's possible their soul is lost in the process, making them an entirely different kind of dead. On the other hand, it might not be lost. Who can say?
Go a little further, what exactly dictates death in 3.5? From my general understanding, it should be possible to outlast a nuked planet, or even galaxy. Right?

[Coidzor]

Can I add to this and ask what exactly happens, by RAW, to inhabitants of an entire plane being wiped out? And no, I won't mention Iron Heart Surge any further than that.

I believe the closest to an answer is what happened when the Harmonium derped and dropped a layer of Arcadia on Mechanus.

[Strigon]

Go a little further, what exactly dictates death in 3.5? From my general understanding, it should be possible to outlast a nuked planet, or even galaxy. Right?

Yes, you could very well survive that. If you were a very powerful wizard, or deity, or even a lich with proper measures taken.
But I meant, in general, people won't survive that. Their souls will depart from their bodies and go to the relevant afterlife. That is death, in most situations. With very few exceptions, that is how death works. However, if the plane is destroyed, can their souls do that?
Are they destroyed with the plane, or are they immune to such an effect and continue as they would with any other death? Are they stuck in a void, not on any plane, for all eternity? We simply don't know. The answer to the question you asked is that there is no answer. You wanted RAW, but there is no RAW on that. You could try to extrapolate to get an answer, but that answer won't be RAW, either.

The answer I'd be most comfortable with is "whatever happens to someone inside a Bag of Holding when it's destroyed". If there's an answer to that, I'd rule the same thing happens with a destroyed plane. But that's simply my opinion.

[MHCD]

Yes, you could very well survive that. If you were a very powerful wizard, or deity, or even a lich with proper measures taken.
But I meant, in general, people won't survive that. Their souls will depart from their bodies and go to the relevant afterlife. That is death, in most situations. With very few exceptions, that is how death works. However, if the plane is destroyed, can their souls do that?
Are they destroyed with the plane, or are they immune to such an effect and continue as they would with any other death? Are they stuck in a void, not on any plane, for all eternity? We simply don't know. The answer to the question you asked is that there is no answer. You wanted RAW, but there is no RAW on that. You could try to extrapolate to get an answer, but that answer won't be RAW, either.

The answer I'd be most comfortable with is "whatever happens to someone inside a Bag of Holding when it's destroyed". If there's an answer to that, I'd rule the same thing happens with a destroyed plane. But that's simply my opinion.

"Mommy, where do vestiges come from?"
"Well, when someone wants to destroy a plane very much..."

[Calthropstu]

Destroying a plane generally involves explosives.

Or crashing it into buildings.

[Calthropstu]

Actually, there is one way someone told me that should work.

1:be an entropomancer (max) and acquire a sphere of annihilation.

2:get sent back in time to when your grandfather was a child.

3:have him hold open a portable hole

4:place your sphere into a bag of holding.

5:drop the bag of holding into the portable jole.

This causes a double paradox. Since the sphere cannot be destroyed, and anything in the bag or hole is destroyed, and since you killed your grandfather before he had kids and you can no longer exist, as time attempts to force you out of the time stream it has a sphere of annihilation dumped directly into it, destroying time itself.

Everything ceases to exist.

[Malimar]

1. Figure out a way to use a plane of existence as a material component in a spell.

GENIUS. I don't recall anything saying you must possess a material component (unless you're grappling, in which case you must have it in hand), which would be the main sticking point that I can see. A custom regular spell with this feature would be pretty unreasonable, albeit possible in TO by RAW. A custom epic spell would be slightly more feasible in PO-land.

[Thurbane]

Destroying a plane generally involves explosives.

Or crashing it into buildings.

I can't help but re-post:


Nothing useful to add, but I couldn't resist...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/FIM-92_Stinger_USMC.JPG/300px-FIM-92_Stinger_USMC.JPG

[Mato]

Using the antimatter rifle (DMG 147) to confirm the possibility of antimatter it's possible to use the creation spells to create antimatter by using the more common widespread definition that anything that takes up space and has mass is matter.

With epic spell access you can also use the conjure seed to invent new creatures with spell-like abilities that follow the rules of the other epic seeds which includes the transformation seed which can be used to create any object, not just "matter", so it's entirely plausible to create some kind of antimatter creature that uses the same seeds over again as some kind of self replicating ability to geometrically produce enough material that over enough time will annihilate any given plane.

[Mr.Sandman]

In regards to the use as a material component, perhaps an Epic Dismissal variant might make the most sense? It could also be an epic end to a campaign or story. The forces of Hell are marching on Heaven, nothing seems capable of stopping them from taking control of everything, but a hero steps up and sacrifices their entire Plane, a Plane that has bred so many heroes like them that have hindered the devil's plans for millennia, knowing that it is one of the greatest things they hate, to cast Greater Mass Banishment on the entire army. That would probably give an insane bonus to the caster level check and DC.

[Tvtyrant]

I was going to suggest casting shatter, but that only works on brittle substances and the fabric of reality is pretty soft in D&D.

Likewise animating the plane as an animated object then manifesting Assimilate on it to "Any creature reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by this power is killed, entirely assimilated into your form, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust" requires that we treat the whole plane as an object, which may or may not fly.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Does it count if you force the plane to get absorbed by another plane?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20126068&postcount=218