Durkula vs. Redcloak

[Kruploy]

They face off in the ruins of a burned town. It's afternoon and the weather is cloudy. They start off 20 feet away from each other. The area is large, wide and open and the elevation difference is negligible. Remains of charred buildings fill the area and can provide cover at a pinch.

Durkon is equipped with Durkon's standard weapons (hammer, shield and holy symbol) and has learned the protection from sunlight spell. He has it up but no other spells.

Redcloak has his holy symbol, cloak and two functioning eyes. He has no spells up.

They both left home knowing they might face danger but unaware of what. Their spells are not optimized for single combat but they haven't expended any spell slots yet except for Durkon who used a protection from sunlight spell.

Durkon knows all he has learned about Redcloak up to this point in the comic.

Redcloak knows nothing about Durkon and can't tell that Durkon is a vampire at a glance although he can surmise Durkon is obviously an undead creature of some sort.

Who would win?

[BaronOfHell]

First thing that comes to mind is, does the vamp template actually give any benefits once you meet a high level tier 1 character compared to just being a regular dwarf?

[The1exile]

Surely Redcloak could win trivially with a use of Turn Undead?

[Kruploy]

First thing that comes to mind is, does the vamp template actually give any benefits once you meet a high level tier 1 character compared to just being a regular dwarf?
I don't understand this question.


Surely Redcloak could win trivially with a use of Turn Undead?
Vampirism gives you +8 level adjustment so I assumed that would put Durkon out of Redcloak's turning range.

[Hamste]

I don't understand this question.


Vampirism gives you +8 level adjustment so I assumed that would put Durkon out of Redcloak's turning range.

They are asking if the vampire template does anything to help in the fight (it does immunity to mind affecting spells, most fort saves and death effects).


+8 LA does nothing against turning. +4 turn resistance does.

[Kish]

Also note that Rich lets his negative energy channeler clerics bolster reactively in response to turning.

[goodpeople25]

Redcloak.

It is clearly the superior nickname:smallwink:
We don't even have/need redcloak's actual name, it's that good.


As for a fight between the two of them? No idea.

[dancrilis]

If random Gnomes and Veldrina can make a knowledge Religion check and and spot a vampire during the daylight so can Redcloak.

One dispel magic later and we have an ashed vampire - if it is daytime.

Nighttime - Gate beats Vampire (if it is daytime Gate beats vampire also).

[blunk]

Ennio Morricone would win.

[RatElemental]

Why are they fighting? I don't think Durkula has any reason to attack Redcloak unless he thinks he'll interfere with his (aren't pronouns fun!) plan to rig the vote.

Honestly, I could see them working together, if Redcloak thought it had a better chance of working than controlling the snarl. They both serve gods who have a raw deal in world 2.0, and while leveraging the snarl is the Dark One's Plan A, destroying the world (i.e. Hel's Plan A) is still his Plan B.

Of course, getting Xykon to go along with that would be a bit of a stretch. Or a lot of one.

[Mandor]

As long as we get another Ultimate Duel Between Clerics (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html), it's totally worth it.

[NerdyKris]

Why are they fighting? I don't think Durkula has any reason to attack Redcloak unless he thinks he'll interfere with his (aren't pronouns fun!) plan to rig the vote.

Honestly, I could see them working together, if Redcloak thought it had a better chance of working than controlling the snarl. They both serve gods who have a raw deal in world 2.0, and while leveraging the snarl is the Dark One's Plan A, destroying the world (i.e. Hel's Plan A) is still his Plan B.

Of course, getting Xykon to go along with that would be a bit of a stretch. Or a lot of one.

That's an interesting point. But I feel like having Hel in charge is not in the Dark One's best interests any more than it is Loki's. The Dark One wants a better life for goblins, including those who aren't evil. Having the Northern lands crawling with undead might not be part of his ideal goblin society, assuming The Dark One is a Northern demigod. Obviously if he's with another pantheon, then he might not care at all and would prefer Hel's plan. But in any event he probably wouldn't want to play his hand if he doesn't have to.


The calendar implies he is in the Northern Pantheon, since Durkula asks why he isn't there.

[137beth]

As long as we get another Ultimate Duel Between Clerics (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html), it's totally worth it.

Vampires are immune to Destruction:smalltongue:

[littlebum2002]

Vampires are immune to Destruction:smalltongue:

I just found out that the Destruction domain does not get the Destruction spell as a domain spell (out of the SRD domains, only the Death domain does). Now that's weird.

[dancrilis]

Vampires are immune to Destruction:smalltongue:

They are however highly susceptible to disintegrate.

[Yuki Akuma]

Redcloak can't Turn a vampire. He's Evil. He'd have to Rebuke a vampire instead, which is different. :smallwink:

[PoeticDwarf]

Surely Redcloak could win trivially with a use of Turn Undead?

Do you mean rebuke? And it's not that easy of course

[wumpus]

As long as we get another Ultimate Duel Between Clerics (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html), it's totally worth it.

Wild speculation mode: we know that Hel has no living worshipers. But *did* she when Tsukiko was alive? If any living creature wanted to worship Hel, it was her. The important thing here is that Tsukiko is the only possible source (other than Redcloak or the Crimson Mantle itself) for the divine half of the ritual. If Durkula is given enough information about it, he could presumably fight Redcloak for his position (presumably with everybody else unaware) and then offer Xykon the chance to stand in (and presumably modify the divine ritual to Hel).

Basically Durkon wants to unleash the Snarl, this is in opposition to the Order (who want to preserve the gates and stop Xykon), Redcloak (who wants to perform the ritual to force the gods to grant a better deal for him and the goblins), and Xykon (who thinks performing the ritual will benefit him). There really isn't a known good reason for Durkon to fight Redcloak, although Rich really could do something underhanded with Tsukiko and Hel.

[Hamste]

Wild speculation mode: we know that Hel has no living worshipers. But *did* she when Tsukiko was alive? If any living creature wanted to worship Hel, it was her. The important thing here is that Tsukiko is the only possible source (other than Redcloak or the Crimson Mantle itself) for the divine half of the ritual. If Durkula is given enough information about it, he could presumably fight Redcloak for his position (presumably with everybody else unaware) and then offer Xykon the chance to stand in (and presumably modify the divine ritual to Hel).

Basically Durkon wants to unleash the Snarl, this is in opposition to the Order (who want to preserve the gates and stop Xykon), Redcloak (who wants to perform the ritual to force the gods to grant a better deal for him and the goblins), and Xykon (who thinks performing the ritual will benefit him). There really isn't a known good reason for Durkon to fight Redcloak, although Rich really could do something underhanded with Tsukiko and Hel.

Wouldn't she have worshipped an eastern god though? Err, or southern gods can't remember off hand the geography of the world.

[NerdyKris]

Yeah, Tsukiko worshiped the southern gods. Otherwise, Durkon wouldn't have specified that nobody worships Hel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html), and she wouldn't have needed the serendipitous creation of a dwarven vampire to send a representative to the Godsmoot.

[eilandesq]

They are however highly susceptible to disintegrate.

Yep, and Durkula took a major hit in total HP and FORT save when his con bonus went bye bye. One (probably) failed save and 36d6 damage later, and Durkula is a cloud of mist looking for a coffin that does not exist.

Defensively, Redcloak probably memorizes Death Ward as a matter of course due to constantly being around undead with negative energy based attacks. It would probably be safer for him to start out with that before attacking, as if he tries Disintegrate and misses without making any defensive preparations he's looking at a world of hurt (starting with losing some levels to energy drain).

[dancrilis]

Yep, and Durkula took a major hit in total HP and FORT save when his con bonus went bye bye. One (probably) failed save and 36d6 damage later, and Durkula is a cloud of mist looking for a coffin that does not exist.

Defensively, Redcloak probably memorizes Death Ward as a matter of course due to constantly being around undead with negative energy based attacks. It would probably be safer for him to start out with that before attacking, as if he tries Disintegrate and misses without making any defensive preparations he's looking at a world of hurt (starting with losing some levels to energy drain).

Wouldn't worry about that he has a ring (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html).

[Keltest]

Wouldn't worry about that he has a ring (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html).

That is... Wow, I had totally forgotten that. That may become far more important that I realized.