Black Desert Online Sorceress Class Help

[Floorlock]

Hey there. I'm new around here...I've only lurked through the forums a bit to pour over advice and thoughts from the community...and, I've only been in the tabletop roleplay environment for about a year now. I recently ran a group through The Hoard of the Dragon Queen, and was pleasantly satisfied with my ability to DM. However, I've recently made the decision to go full-fledged into a homebrew campaign. One of my players, essentially, wants to play an unarmed combatant sorcerer ala Black Desert Online's sorceress class.


I'm not entirely certain how to make this completely optimal. Way of the Four Elements monk is an option...but, as most have pointed out...it's one of the weaker options within the entirety of the game. Secondly, it's not so much a spellcaster at all. They only get a few spell-like abilities over the course of their leveling and they dip into their ki expenditure. Thirdly, that class option is based around Wisdom...which seems wrong flavor wise for something that seems to be more of an internal power...as in the way of the sorcerer's charisma.

So...then I thought, perhaps I should recommend they multiclass monk and sorcerer. Level 1 of draconic bloodline nets them an unarmored defense of 13+ Dex...so they won't have to press on wisdom so hard and they'll get to stay armorless for all of their monk abilities. But, then I noticed that monk doesn't reach a d6 damage with their unarmed strikes til level 5...and then you're at least gonna wanna stick around for the 6th level ki empowered strikes for bypassing resistances. So...Sorcerer 1...then 6 levels of monk...then 13 more levels of Sorcerer. But, that comes out to only getting your 2nd level spell slot as a 9th level character...the whole thing...I don't know..just seems like it hurts both the monk and sorcerer progressions. How non-optimal is this?

Third...and, this seems to be the most powerful of the builds...is to just create a weapon...that essentially functions as brass knuckles or something of the like...make it a light, finesse weapon...and give it a d6 of bludgeoning damage. They'd essentially be using short swords or scimitars...but, refluffed with a different damage type to give them the essence of slamming everything down with their hands. Go five levels of the freshly released Bard: College of Swords and gain two weapon fighting, the warcaster feat, and an extra attack...and then just go Dragon Sorcerer for the rest of the game. A question about this build, however, has to do with the Arcane focus. The Arcane Focus requires the use of a free hand, yes? However, I've seen it stated that it can make use of the same free hand as the one applying the somatic gestures of some spells. Warcaster eliminates the need for a hand to be free to perform somatic components; does it then also eliminate the need for the hand to be free to activate the Arcane Focus? If so...then she could theoretically rip through enemies with both her two weapon fighting style and magic as a merciless gish machine...just all the time...without ever worrying about stowing weapons. The only other potential issue is that...while it gives the basic feel of the character...it's not quite the same. Brass Knuckles do not equal pure martial arts badassery released from nothing but your palms and feet.

I'm not entirely sure what to do for this character. I have also considered the option of simply creating a class...but, I'm wary of attempting to create a gish, as they seem entirely too plausible for overpowered candidates if you don't construct them correctly. I've seen a few vampire classes floating around that seem to offer a nice template...given that most give vampires both dexterity based unarmed melee and magic ability. However, they usually include extra weakness...such as aversion to sunlight. These weaknesses wouldn't fit, but, I'm concerned with the notion of just taking them out. It just seems like a difficult beast to balance.

For more insight: The campaign is built off of rolling for stats...four d6, drop the lowest...and she has at least 2 powerful scores. She's playing around with either Tiefling or Aasimar, and, if she goes either route she'll potentially have a charisma of either 18 or 19 at the beginning of the game.

Does anyone have any idea on what I should do about this? Should I simply buckle down and attempt to create a class in as balanced a fashion as possible...or is that really necessary?

[CantigThimble]

Okay so I looked up a couple videos on this and I think I've come up with a reasonable solution. Shadow monk seems essential what with the martial arts and constant teleporting but then you need the damaging magical aspect. I suggest light cleric multiclass. It gives some nice defense and lots of AOE while keeping you to just wisdom and dex as your key stats. You can refluff some abilities and it should work fine.

[Floorlock]

Thanks for the reply friend. :-)

That's a reasonable concept. I could maybe make that work...but, I'm not entirely certain whether or not my player will go for it. It's dependency on wisdom might throw her off...since that's not the build she was necessarily going for. She wants something Charisma based, I believe.

Another option I had considered is taking a step into 2 levels of Warlock for eldritch blast + Agonizing blast...a combo that might give just enough blast potential...but, I'm not certain if that will be too much of a disperse between classes. It would be Draconic Sorcerer 1/Monk 6/Warlock 2/Monk 11. Maybe. that first level of sorcerer will get her a decent unarmored defense and the four battle cantrips...such as booming blade...and she can rock it from there. Not sure how viable all of that is, though.

Question: If there was a class that worked considerably similar to monk...it got some of the same features...such as unarmored movement, martial arts, slow fall, etc....but, it was reworked to make it Charisma based, KI was taken out of the equation, and they were given a half-caster progression in the vein of Ranger or Paladin, how OP would that be? Or would it be OP at all? One immediate issue, I would think, is the powerful insert of a class that essentially has two weapon fighting, but, with free hands...eliminating the driving necessity of War Caster...I mean, besides the bonus of advantage on concentration.

[CantigThimble]

If the goal is to go charisma focused then I don't think it's a good idea to take more than a level of monk for the dex based unarmed strikes. Take 1 level of monk and then go straight dragon sorcerer. Pick up mobile as soon as you can but otherwise prioritize dex above all else. You get decent unarmored ac from dragon sorc and you can combine mobile with booming blade. You also have green flame blade as an option as well as quickening and twinning those for magical flurries of blows. You miss out on the spam teleport but you can use blur, mirror image and misty step in a similar way. I don't think a warlock dip is worth it if unarmed attacks are your priority.

[Sir cryosin]

You can just go shadow monk 6 warlock 14 one of your warlock invocations can be armor of Shadows it you can spam mage armor at will then you get all the warlock spells

[Floorlock]

Thanks to you all for your input.
There's a lot to consider. I'm going to be presenting her these suggestions.
What about my question at the end of my last post, though? If I were to homebrew...Would a charisma based half or third progression spellcasting monk seem overpowered?

[CantigThimble]

I don't think swapping charisma for wisdom is inherently overpowered, as long as you aren't just doing that to pull off some kind of crazy multiclass build. Charisma is typically a bit weaker than wisdom, which applies to a very important save and perception. Trading casting for ki is... complicated. I have no clue how balanced that might be. I would probably try to use one of the existing subclasses with pseudo-spellcasting: Sun soul or four elements. There are also a variety of homebrew fixes for four elements you can find if you're worried about it being a little weak.

[Gtdead]

First thing that came to mind was a warlock with misty step.
Warlock has the dark imagery. I can totally see a great old one warlock dressed like a goth kid.
Eldritch blast pretty much works exactly like the main ranged attack in the videos I saw. Bonus for being the strongest cantrip in the game.
Misty step is a blink with a cast time of a bonus action, so you can blink and shoot an eldrich blast in the same round.
The problem is that misty step it isn't spammable.

One thing to consider, is that the character can move and cast normally. You can take the mobile feat that increases your speed and doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity (emulating the whole side-strafing playstyle of the mmo games).

Second, sorcerer 17/warlock 3 is an amazing build, and all these extra slots from sorcerer can be used for misty step shenanigans if he likes.

Third, there is a case to be made for benign transportation (conjuration wizard). But wizards are boring unless you play 3.5 or know the monster manual by heart.

And last is the shadow monk, which sounds cool in theory, but you need to be in dim light or darkness and target a spot with the same conditions for this to work. Which means that in broad daylight this won't work. Now if it wasn't for the wis requirement, shadow monk could actually be an ok multiclass for a warlock. Free minor illusion, more ways to cast darkness (coupled with devil's sight for advantage). You can certainly homebrew a monk that uses charisma, or you can just make a new prestige class and be done with it.

[Sir cryosin]

Why is your player hung up on Christmas instead of wisdom

[Floorlock]

Why is your player hung up on Christmas instead of wisdom


Simply for role-play reasons. They don't want their force of personality to be diminished due to reliance on the mechanics of combat potency. I believe they also want to play a character who is more intelligent than they are wise. They wanted to play it at least slightly scatterbrained. Someone who has been somewhat studious but, could still fall prey to certain machinations based on their relative naivety. It kinda sucks...because, sometimes there are aspects of personality that are forced to be shifted under the D&D mechanics in accordance to class. Playing a monk who isn't the wisest of all people isn't exactly optimized. I suppose that's a problem of lumping all unarmed martial arts under the monk moniker, though.

[Floorlock]

First thing that came to mind was a warlock with misty step.
Warlock has the dark imagery. I can totally see a great old one warlock dressed like a goth kid.
Eldritch blast pretty much works exactly like the main ranged attack in the videos I saw. Bonus for being the strongest cantrip in the game.
Misty step is a blink with a cast time of a bonus action, so you can blink and shoot an eldrich blast in the same round.
The problem is that misty step it isn't spammable.

One thing to consider, is that the character can move and cast normally. You can take the mobile feat that increases your speed and doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity (emulating the whole side-strafing playstyle of the mmo games).

Second, sorcerer 17/warlock 3 is an amazing build, and all these extra slots from sorcerer can be used for misty step shenanigans if he likes.

Third, there is a case to be made for benign transportation (conjuration wizard). But wizards are boring unless you play 3.5 or know the monster manual by heart.

And last is the shadow monk, which sounds cool in theory, but you need to be in dim light or darkness and target a spot with the same conditions for this to work. Which means that in broad daylight this won't work. Now if it wasn't for the wis requirement, shadow monk could actually be an ok multiclass for a warlock. Free minor illusion, more ways to cast darkness (coupled with devil's sight for advantage). You can certainly homebrew a monk that uses charisma, or you can just make a new prestige class and be done with it.

Those are all great suggestions. :-) It only sucks that the shadow monk is the only one that will give me Martial Arts out of that situation. :-/
I'm honestly at a point where I'm thinking that I'm simply going to have to homebrew. Not sure how it will go, though. I'm constantly concerned with creating something that is overpowered. :-( I just wanna make sure it's balanced.
Although, honestly...just going SorLock...I wonder. I wonder if I could just let them take a level of fighter and then do the Warlock-2/Sorcerer17 combo. If they take the fighting style from that one unearthed arcana- the close quarters ranged combat one- they could potentially be just running all over the place as a melee blaster and reflavor it to be some close range magic martial arts in the vein of the Black Desert Online Sorceress. I don't know how viable that'd be for survival...but, it's something.