Mold Earth Questions

[GutterFace]

yes that cantrip.

1) if someone is standing on dirt and you excavate it and they drop into the hole; do they incur disadvantage of attack roles since they are in a hole? does someone attacking them get advantage? does crawling out of the hole incur an AoO from someone standing around the pit? bonus; can you then use your next turn to cover them up with the dirt you once removed?

2) the description says 5' cube and not 5' square. so if you are making difficult terrain is it only 5' or 15'?

thanks!


lastly.....how much would 5' cube of loose dirt weigh?

[DiceDiceBaby]

I built a solo adventure around my wife's Sorceress, and she insisted on using the four elemental cantrips, so I had to rule on a lot of creative possibilities using these four.

Here's the text of the effects of the four for anyone interested (of which Mold Earth is a part of, of course):

1) Mold Earth (manipulate earth for various non-damaging effects)

a. If you target an area of loose earth, you can instantaneously excavate it, move it along the ground, and deposit it up to 5 feet away. This movement doesn’t have enough force to cause damage.

b. You cause shapes, colors, or both to appear on the dirt or stone, spelling out words, creating images, or shaping patterns. The changes last for 1 hour.

c. If the dirt or stone you target is on the ground, you cause it to become difficult terrain. Alternatively, you can cause the ground to become normal terrain if it is already difficult terrain. This change lasts for 1 hour.

2) Control Flames (manipulate fire for various non-damaging effects)

a. You instantaneously expand the flame 5 feet in one direction, provided that wood or other fuel is present in the new location.

b. You instantaneously extinguish the flames within the cube.

c. You double or halve the area of bright light and dim light cast by the flame, change its color, or both. The change lasts for 1 hour.

d. You cause simple shapes—such as the vague form of a creature, an inanimate object, or a location—to appear within the flames and animate as you like. The shapes last for 1 hour.

3) Shape Water (manipulate water for various non-damaging effects)

a. You instantaneously move or otherwise change the flow of the water as you direct, up to 5 feet in any direction. This movement doesn’t have enough force to cause damage.

b. You cause the water to form into simple shapes and animate at your direction. This change lasts for 1 hour.

c. You change the water’s color or opacity. The water must be changed in the same way throughout. This change lasts for 1 hour.

d. You freeze the water, provided that there are no creatures in it. The water unfreezes in 1 hour.

4) Gust (manipulate air for various non-damaging effects)

a. One Medium or smaller creature that you choose must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be pushed up to 5 feet away from you.

b. You create a small blast of air capable of moving one object that is neither held nor carried and that weighs no more than 5 pounds. The object is pushed up to 10 feet away from you. It isn’t pushed with enough force to cause damage.

c. You create a harmless sensory affect using air, such as causing leaves to rustle, wind to slam shutters shut, or your clothing to ripple in a breeze.


Now, to answer your questions (at least, how I would rule them):


1) if someone is standing on dirt and you excavate it and they drop into the hole; do they incur disadvantage of attack roles since they are in a hole? does someone attacking them get advantage? does crawling out of the hole incur an AoO from someone standing around the pit? bonus; can you then use your next turn to cover them up with the dirt you once removed?

RAW: Nothing in the text says you can't manipulate the earth to achieve your desired effect.
RAI: All four elemental cantrips agree that you can't use them to harm any other character.

That said, during my wife's solo quest, she used Control Flames to remove the fire from a torch that, because she had darkvision and every other creature hostile to her in the area didn't (they were a band of human cultists), it essentially produced the same effect as what you are going for with your hypothetical Mold Earth scenario (advantage and disadvantage like crazy).

So...

a) If you can manage to make them to fall, I'd say yes, but before that happens, I'd force the character standing on the dirt you are moving to make a dexterity save to see if they can't leap to another plot of dirt while this is happening.

b and c) If they are in the hole, I'd say advantage and disadvantage apply, but only if they are using relevant weaponry or not (think ranged weapons).

d) The text of all the cantrips specifically avoid using the cantrips to deal significant damage, or harm any living life forms in them. RAW, you can bury them alive. RAI, I wouldn't let you. Shape Water doesn't allow freezing fish, Control Flames and Mold Earth pretty much intend using them in a non-damaging manner, and Gust emphasizes that the effects should be "harmless". I have no reason to believe that these cantrips were intended to harm anyone, but using them cleverly to gain advantage would be, for me, a legitimate use of them.



2) the description says 5' cube and not 5' square. so if you are making difficult terrain is it only 5' or 15'?


I always ruled it depending on what the earth was. When my wife's sorceress needed to climb rough terrain, I made it a cube so she could smoothen the terrain vertically. For making surfaces such as the floors of caves shaped differently, I ruled a square side of the cube.



lastly.....how much would 5' cube of loose dirt weigh?

Not enough to deal damage. :smallbiggrin:

That said, it's a cantrip. If you intend to use it to fill up something or maximize the use of weight, the answer here would be... limitless (provided your DM allows you to spend enough time excavating what could potentially be tons and tons of earth by using the spell outside of combat; within combat, maybe you could knock something over, but that's it). Remember, this is loose earth; a 5 foot cube of loose earth, when thrown, would disperse rather easily and not contain enough momentum or force to do anything significant; though you could make something reasonably dirty.

Hope this helps!

[MaxWilson]

lastly.....how much would 5' cube of loose dirt weigh?

According to (http://www.ask.com/science/much-cubic-foot-soil-weigh-7b509c02c5101291), a cubic foot of soil is between 74 and 110 pounds. A 5' cube is 125 cubic feet, so between 9250 and 13750 lb.

[GutterFace]

Thanks

i was going for more control as opposed to damage and for filling in a hole someone was in, was to restrain them and not a suffocation type of deal.

but your other points seem very reasonable.

[JackPhoenix]

1: GM's decision. RAW, there's no bonus or penalty for being at different elevation then your foe. You're thinking of 3.5e's +1 to attack on the targets standing lower then you. Also, no OA unless the enemy leaves your threatened area by climbing out of the hole. No RAW on dumping the dirt back on the target, it's up to the GM.

2: I'm not sure what do you mean, but 5' cube is an area of 5' square that's 5' high, it's not 125 cubic feet spread however you like.

[Slipperychicken]

Climbing is just like regular movement, only it costs double. It provokes just the same as walking or jumping.

[DiceDiceBaby]

Thanks

i was going for more control as opposed to damage and for filling in a hole someone was in, was to restrain them and not a suffocation type of deal.

but your other points seem very reasonable.

Well, I'd rule it for fun's sake, but that's up to your DM; as others mentioned, it's not difficult to overcome the pitfalls (haha) of Mold Earth, and any other control options have to be ruled on. With the right DM, the elemental cantrips are so versatile that they'll make you feel like something out of the Avatar series. Else, some DMs may feel they are just there for fluff reasons.

For the record, I'd totally allow you to use the cantrip to control crowds in unconventional or creative ways, but that's not my call to make, I think, in this case. :smallsmile: