Need a rule lawyer

[Sir cryosin]

Im playing a magic assassin mc rogue assassin 3 dragon sorcerer 2 we are 5th lv right now. I picked ice knife as one of my spell I have my reasons no need to tell me your opinion on the spell plz. Anyway the assassin's auto crit works on anything that has the to hit damge so that means any spell that I have to roll to hit works. So my question is if I hit a target with ice knife in a surprise round the spell crits so does that crit carry over to ice knife second effect AoE. The spell crit and the second part of the spell is the spell so it should crit to is how I'm thinking but I might be wrong like I tend to be some times. So I would like ya'll rule lawyering on this thank you for any and all input

[JumboWheat01]

The way I'm reading it, the second bit of damage doesn't require an attack roll, and since it doesn't use attack rolls, it can't crit.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Im playing a magic assassin mc rogue assassin 3 dragon sorcerer 2 we are 5th lv right now. I picked ice knife as one of my spell I have my reasons no need to tell me your opinion on the spell plz. Anyway the assassin's auto crit works on anything that has the to hit damge so that means any spell that I have to roll to hit works. So my question is if I hit a target with ice knife in a surprise round the spell crits so does that crit carry over to ice knife second effect AoE. The spell crit and the second part of the spell is the spell so it should crit to is how I'm thinking but I might be wrong like I tend to be some times. So I would like ya'll rule lawyering on this thank you for any and all input

As far as I can tell, the RAW doesn't cover this (unless there's been Sage Advice), so you don't need a rules lawyer, you need to ask your DM.

If I were the DM, I'd rule you get double damage on the first part but not on the second part, on the rationale that AoE attacks that target saves can never be critical hits. They are a fixed-strength hazard to anyone in the area, and whether or not they hit you depends on your reflexes (or whatever), not the caster's accuracy.

[Sir cryosin]

Thanks I was thinking it was like that but wanted to be sure.

[INDYSTAR188]

As far as I can tell, the RAW doesn't cover this (unless there's been Sage Advice), so you don't need a rules lawyer, you need to ask your DM.

If I were the DM, I'd rule you get double damage on the first part but not on the second part, on the rationale that AoE attacks that target saves can never be critical hits. They are a fixed-strength hazard to anyone in the area, and whether or not they hit you depends on your reflexes (or whatever), not the caster's accuracy.

I concur with this. I think ice knife is a really cool (hehe), flavorful spell, btw. Really cool imagery combined with an assassin.

[Douche]

Gosh darn it, guys. The man asked for a lawyer. When you murder someone, you don't get a lawyer to tell you what you did was wrong. You hire him to help you get away with it! Help the man get away with it, or don't call yourself a lawyer!!!

[Joe the Rat]

He didn't specify he needed a defense lawyer, so bringing a prosecutor is a valid response to the request.


And I concur: No crit for the area effect rider.

[RulesJD]

The AoE damage isn't part of the attack roll. No, it does not crit (same as if you crit with a weapon that then grants a save or take poison damage, that damage can't crit).

[PeteNutButter]

Compare this to Greenflame Blade. If the attack crits, even the munchkiniest part of me wouldn't argue that the secondary effect is doubled as well. It's a separate effect.

It's pretty clear that damage can crit, but it doesn't lock a whole spell into a crit. It also makes sense. The ice knife hits a guy in the neck or something so it does double damage, but the AoE isn't increased. Same for GFB.

If it worked your way I'd look to make a champion fighter/wizard that puts delayed blast fireball on his arrows.

Crit --> BOOOOOM

[Sir cryosin]

Thanks again guys.
I'm a gold dragon but what magic assassin wouldn't take ice knife. It's just to much flavorful spell.
Quick quistion my spell are
Cantrips prestidigitation, green flam blade, fire bolt, minor illusion,
1st lv spells, chromatic orb, ice knife, sleep

I think I picked some good spells but what would ya'll recommend and why

[Corran]

Thanks again guys.
I'm a gold dragon but what magic assassin wouldn't take ice knife. It's just to much flavorful spell.
Quick quistion my spell are
Cantrips prestidigitation, green flam blade, fire bolt, minor illusion,
1st lv spells, chromatic orb, ice knife, sleep

I think I picked some good spells but what would ya'll recommend and why
I would recommend this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?475714-Need-help-with-the-spell-selection-for-my-heavy-sorcerer-cutthroat&p=20321545#post20321545).

[PeteNutButter]

Thanks again guys.
I'm a gold dragon but what magic assassin wouldn't take ice knife. It's just to much flavorful spell.
Quick quistion my spell are
Cantrips prestidigitation, green flam blade, fire bolt, minor illusion,
1st lv spells, chromatic orb, ice knife, sleep

I think I picked some good spells but what would ya'll recommend and why

Scorching ray scales fantastically after lvl 3 assassin. If you get your surprise, advantage on the attacks plus each ray doing 4d6. Could always pick up witchbolt if you just like to roll a bunch of d12s, or chromatic orb which is usually better.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Thanks again guys.
I'm a gold dragon but what magic assassin wouldn't take ice knife. It's just to much flavorful spell.
Quick quistion my spell are
Cantrips prestidigitation, green flam blade, fire bolt, minor illusion,
1st lv spells, chromatic orb, ice knife, sleep

I think I picked some good spells but what would ya'll recommend and why

Seems like a decent set. Chromatic Orb might be a bit redundant; Ice Knife is presumably your main ranged spell attack, and you've got attack cantrips and weapon attacks as well. Sleep will lose potency rapidly as you level up, and the fact that you're a multiclass means you can't even boost it to a higher slot (or at least, your higher slots won't be up with the curve), so I'd consider changing that to something with more utility.

[Sir cryosin]

Even if it don't scale so well it still useful if you need to take some one alive get there hp low hit with sleep you got a prisoner no problem. But I do plan on changing it out

[PeteNutButter]

Even if it don't scale so well it still useful if you need to take some one alive get there hp low hit with sleep you got a prisoner no problem. But I do plan on changing it out

A melee attacker can choose to knock an enemy out instead of killing them, per phb. It's their simplified version of nonlethal from 3.5.

[JumboWheat01]

Even if it don't scale so well it still useful if you need to take some one alive get there hp low hit with sleep you got a prisoner no problem. But I do plan on changing it out


A melee attacker can choose to knock an enemy out instead of killing them, per phb. It's their simplified version of nonlethal from 3.5.

What assassin actually leaves a living target, I ask you? It's just... wrong.

[Corran]

What assassin actually leaves a living target, I ask you? It's just... wrong.
Sometimes they just hire you to send a message.:smallsmile:

[Sir cryosin]

What assassin actually leaves a living target, I ask you? It's just... wrong.

All assassins néed info just because I take him prisoner. Does not guaranteed he's going to live as soon he has nothing to offer me he's dead. And assassins do get sent out to capture a target for there clients.