Throwing Fighting Style Houserule

[PeteNutButter]

As many have noted, throwing weapons have been largely neglected in 5e. While some builds make use of trying to combine TWF and duelist styles, it is very sketchy, has problems, and doesn't even really work with RAW. To fix this, I'd suggest a new fighting style exclusively for thrown weapons:

You have +1 to attack and damage rolls when throwing a weapon. In addition you may draw one additional weapon, each time you throw a weapon.


The idea is that I split the difference between archery and duelist styles. My biggest issue with this is that it makes throwing TWF better than regular TWF as long as you have both styles. How can I balance that? Restrict to "mainhand"? Would it be better off as some type of feat? Are there any other balance issues I'm not noticing? Possibly do something to increase range?

[Mith]

Some ideas. Not sure of their validity:

I would restrict what you have written to "main hand" throwing with you being able to throw both weapon with one at the off hand penalty (-4 I think?) to attack. You then have to spend a bonus action to rearm your self. I would also rule that you can only hit the same or adjacent targets with a double throw.

[PeteNutButter]

Some ideas. Not sure of their validity:

I would restrict what you have written to "main hand" throwing with you being able to throw both weapon with one at the off hand penalty (-4 I think?) to attack. You then have to spend a bonus action to rearm your self. I would also rule that you can only hit the same or adjacent targets with a double throw.

There is no penalty for TWF, they just have to be light weapons. Spending a bonus action to rearm defeats the whole purpose, and would make it completely not viable. If you can draw, knock, aim, pull, and release an arrow, you should be able to grab and chuck another spear if you are trained in it.

And limit targets? Why are you trying to make throwing even worse? It's currently horrible and has no incentive compared to the other styles. I'm attempting to make it a viable but balanced option.

[Mith]

We can drop the bonus action penalty. I was trying to think of a risk/reward system for throwing two of your weapons away vs. just one.

As for 1 target or 2 adjacent ones, that's because I cannot see someone taking one attack action to throw one weapon ahead of themselves, and one behind themselves with ease. Most double throws are done at the same time, not one after another. If you have an extra attack, you can pick and choose targets at ease.

[Daehron]

Not sure what you are aiming for here. As part of your attack action you can draw a weapon as a free action, that is already included in the rules. If you want to be a TWF-Thrown weapon expert, take the TWF feat that allows you to draw/stow two weapons as a free action. This would allow you to throw weapons with your attack and bonus attack actions. For fighters, I see no reason as a DM not to allow them to draw (light?) weapons to throw as part of their attack action as part of their extra attacks.

Giving +1 to hit and damage is overkill, imho.

[PeteNutButter]

We can drop the bonus action penalty. I was trying to think of a risk/reward system for throwing two of your weapons away vs. just one.

As for 1 target or 2 adjacent ones, that's because I cannot see someone taking one attack action to throw one weapon ahead of themselves, and one behind themselves with ease. Most double throws are done at the same time, not one after another. If you have an extra attack, you can pick and choose targets at ease.

I see where you were going with that, but I disagree. I am sure I've seen characters in movies throw a knife at a guy in front of him w his right hand, then spin around and throw one at a guy behind him with his left hand. If it's in an action movie, a D&D fantasy character should be able to do it. Besides, it'll rarely come up, and is more of a cool thing than a balance thing when it does.

Restricting the throwing bonuses to "mainhand" only could work, but I am hesitant to throw around that term, as I don't think it even exists yet in 5e. Does it? AFB ATM.

[LordFluffy]

Not sure what you are aiming for here. As part of your attack action you can draw a weapon as a free action, that is already included in the rules. If you want to be a TWF-Thrown weapon expert, take the TWF feat that allows you to draw/stow two weapons as a free action. This would allow you to throw weapons with your attack and bonus attack actions. For fighters, I see no reason as a DM not to allow them to draw (light?) weapons to throw as part of their attack action as part of their extra attacks.

Giving +1 to hit and damage is overkill, imho.

5e doesn't have free actions, it has object interactions. You get one free one a turn and drawing a weapon would count (which is why the TWF feat drawing ability matters.

And if all it did was allow you to draw extra thrown weapons, I think it would be worse than TWF.

[PeteNutButter]

5e doesn't have free actions, it has object interactions. You get one free one a turn and drawing a weapon would count (which is why the TWF feat drawing ability matters.

And if all it did was allow you to draw extra thrown weapons, I think it would be worse than TWF.

^This. I'm trying to promote a style of fighting, by enabling it to be competitive with other styles. I could just houserule that you can draw more weapons than the game says you can, but that devalues the TWF feat and doesn't make for meaningful character choices. Including it in a style, that also adds attractive numerical bonuses allows players who want to invest in it, make that hard choice.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Well, the feat's still not as good as Archery but on the other hand, the sad truth is that archers are better at range than guys with throwing daggers, so I think this proposed style is good enough to at least make the playing style viable for someone who really wants to do it and doesn't care about chasing 'optimum'.

Thrown weapons benefit from feats like Sharpshooter, right?

[JackPhoenix]

Well, the feat's still not as good as Archery but on the other hand, the sad truth is that archers are better at range than guys with throwing daggers, so I think this proposed style is good enough to at least make the playing style viable for someone who really wants to do it and doesn't care about chasing 'optimum'.

Thrown weapons benefit from feats like Sharpshooter, right?

Partially. You get fist two benefits, no disadvantage for long range and no cover or concealment, but the third benefit (-5/+10) can be used only with dart and net, other weapons with thrown property are melee weapons.

[Foxhound438]

currently i'm trying out a rogue with sharpshooter and archery from fighter L1, it works fine so far. you have to use darts but sneak attack damage more than makes up the difference. In the end it'll be a lot weaker than a pure fighter with a hand crossbow, but it's still fine.

[Talamare]

Dueling already affects Throwing Weapons
and it doesn't make sense to Dual Wield Javelins

Dueling specifies while holding Melee Weapons, you gain +2 damage to attacks. Doesn't specify against Ranged or Melee

[MeeposFire]

My personal houserule is that you get one object interaction per attack you get normally from your attack action. So a 20th level fighter gets 4. This buffs more martial characters (I also give extra to special cases such as rogues at certain levels just to keep things interesting). I also make it so that if you are going to two weapon fight you can use a free object interaction with your off hand to draw or sheathe a weapon with your off hand (and only that).

Essentially this allows characters to be able to throw weapons and not be penalized so much for dual wielding in this fashion. It also gives an additional but minor way to give martial type characters a unique advantage over standard spell casters.

[djreynolds]

Look at the bard college of swords, and the close quarters in UA may be up your alley.

[Talamare]

Also, just for fun here is a Marauder subclass for Rangers

Lv3 Hammerspace - You may hold upto 20 weapons with the Thrown weapon property in your Hammerspace, the weight of each weapon is reduced to 1. (and if you NEED it for RAW, After each attack in which you throw your weapon, you may draw a new weapon)

Lv3 Throw and Stab - Once per round, When you hit an opponent with a melee weapon you threw, you may leap upto 20ft directly towards the opponent you hit. Upon reaching melee range, you grab your thrown weapon from your opponent and stab it again. Do a melee attack with the same weapon against the same target.

Lv7 Marauder's Rush - You may use your bonus action to use the Dash or Disengage Action. When you use your bonus action in this way, the next time you make a melee attack this turn, you may choose to spend the rest of your remaining movement speed to deal additional damage equal to your STR Mod.

Lv7 Marauder's Rush(v2) - You may use your bonus action to use the Dash or Disengage Action. When you use your bonus action in this way, the next time you make a melee attack this turn, you may choose to spend the rest of your remaining movement speed to deal additional damage equal to +1 damage for each 10 ft of remaining movement (Max +5)

Lv11 Avalanche Hurler - Increase the damage of weapons with Thrown Weapon property that deal d4 damage to 2d4 damage; d6 damage to 2d6 damage, this damage increase only applies when the weapon is thrown.

Lv15 Manticore's Dance - You may use your use your reaction to force an attack that hits you to be rerolled. The entire attack is rerolled, including advantage or disadvantage.


Let me know what you guys think, is it too strong, too weak? Any effect that could be polished or improved upon. Probably also needs better language.

[PeteNutButter]

Dueling already affects Throwing Weapons
and it doesn't make sense to Dual Wield Javelins

Dueling specifies while holding Melee Weapons, you gain +2 damage to attacks. Doesn't specify against Ranged or Melee

While "holding..." If it gave an attack roll bonus you could argue that your holding it when throwing but as a damage bonus??? Like I said in the OP, it's sketchy. I see a lot of DMs saying no, due to the wording.

[PeteNutButter]

Also, just for fun here is a Marauder subclass for Rangers

Lv3 Hammerspace - You may hold upto 20 weapons with the Thrown weapon property in your Hammerspace, the weight of each weapon is reduced to 1. (and if you NEED it for RAW, After each attack in which you throw your weapon, you may draw a new weapon)

Lv3 Throw and Stab - Once per round, When you hit an opponent with a melee weapon you threw, you may leap upto your speed ignoring OAs directly towards the opponent you hit. Upon reaching melee range, you grab your thrown weapon from your opponent and stab it again. Do a melee attack with the same weapon against the same target.

Lv7 Marauder's Rush - You may use your bonus action to use the Dash or Disengage Action. When you use your bonus action in this way, the next time you make a melee attack this turn, you may choose to spend the rest of your remaining movement speed to deal additional damage equal to your STR Mod.

Lv11 Avalanche Hurler - Increase the damage of weapons with Thrown Weapon property that deal d4 damage to 2d4 damage; d6 damage to 2d6 damage, this damage increase only applies when the weapon is thrown.

Lv15 Manticore's Dance - You may use your use your reaction to force an attack that hits you to be rerolled. The entire attack is rerolled, including advantage or disadvantage.


Let me know what you guys think, is it too strong, too weak? Any effect that could be polished or improved upon. Probably also needs better language.

Lvl 3 hammerspace: cool ability but the flavor is impractical. Lowering the weight on things seems more like magic than a mastery over a style. Good thing I doubt it's even necessary.

Lvl 3 throw and stab: neat idea, but way too powerful. It essentially doubles your movement every round and enables you to never take AoOs AND gives another attack. I'd consider seperating it into two abilities. One that gives a small jump (10ft) towards enemies and maybe gives disadvantage to AoOs. And another ability that doesn't give extra attack like a lvl 11 fighter but instead encourages you to use this style with your attacks like: if you hit an enemy with a thrown weapon and then a melee weapon attack in the same round they take an additional d8 damage.

Lvl 7 marauders rush: I'd consider making the bonus damage based on your remaining movement expended, +1 per 10ft probably.

Lvl 11 Avalanche hurler: a little be too strong but really just brings damage to great sword lvl so its not game breaking.

15: interesting ability, doesn't fit the rest as well

[Talamare]

Lvl 3 hammerspace: cool ability but the flavor is impractical. Lowering the weight on things seems more like magic than a mastery over a style. Good thing I doubt it's even necessary.

Lvl 3 throw and stab: neat idea, but way too powerful. It essentially doubles your movement every round and enables you to never take AoOs AND gives another attack. I'd consider seperating it into two abilities. One that gives a small jump (10ft) towards enemies and maybe gives disadvantage to AoOs. And another ability that doesn't give extra attack like a lvl 11 fighter but instead encourages you to use this style with your attacks like: if you hit an enemy with a thrown weapon and then a melee weapon attack in the same round they take an additional d8 damage.

Lvl 7 marauders rush: I'd consider making the bonus damage based on your remaining movement expended, +1 per 10ft probably.

Lvl 11 Avalanche hurler: a little be too strong but really just brings damage to great sword lvl so its not game breaking.

15: interesting ability, doesn't fit the rest as well

Hammerspace the name is suppose to kinda of give it away, however carrying 20 Javelins or Daggers seems a little impractical and they Javelins WILL get really heavy. Probably like 100lbs, but yea if you feel the effect is too silly or world breaking go ahead and get rid of rid. This one was more of a fix than anything.

Throw and Stab seems like it would be kinda of high damage, but you need to remember that until 11. It's using a d4 or d6 damage without adding anything to it really.
As well as you can't use Sharpshooter nor GWM with any of these styles. You can expect at most 3d6+3x Mod damage until 11. To compare a standard Ranger will be doing 3d8+2x Mod with higher accuracy and option to Sharpshoot for another 10 damage. Altho if it is a little too strong, maybe make it cost a bonus action?

That sounds like a really good idea, the main reason I even added the option for additional damage was so you had incentive to use it to enter battle. This class as a whole is based on a 4e class and one of the main things about it is that its a very mobile class that uses a mobility to enter combat, not run from it.

11 is basically when everyone gets huge damage spikes, I was honestly considering using the 4e version of this ability that allows you to throw Polearms, aka Halberds, Glaives etc.

15 is meant to be a defensive ability, by the time I did this one my brain was burnt out. It's a weak copy based on another 4e ability called Shield of Blades

[T.G. Oskar]

Look at the bard college of swords, and the close quarters in UA may be up your alley.

Agree with the bolded part. Close Quarters Shooter fits a Thrown Weapon user more than an Archer/Crossbowman, since its abilities work at distances typical to Thrown weapons. It's basically an alteration to the Archery style that sacrifices +1 to attack for negating cover and allowing you to make ranged attacks while on melee; both of the other options overlap with the Sharpshooter feat, but they apply better to Thrown weapon users, in particular the last one as you can switch between Melee and Ranged with the same weapon.

That said - Throwing weapons, at most, is a secondary fighting style, not a primary one. You use Thrown weapons when you wish to make attacks against an opponent that is a stone's toss away without having to move, while still having a melee weapon at hand. Close Quarters Shooter is formidable in that regard for a Champion Fighter, as they can focus on, say, Duelist and have CQS as a second fighting style to complement the first (if what posters say about Duelist bonus applying to melee weapons with the Thrown property is true; even if it doesn't, it's still nice for a switch-hitter).