I am so unoriginal!!! Hill Dwarf Life Cleric in Ravenloft, good spell selection

[djreynolds]

So we are running level 1. May have 6-7 players, but I will assume 2 will show up occasionally. So lets say 5.
Here's the party, all running standard array
When I say no clue, I mean "I have no clue, I've never read into them much"

1) Warlock, undying, seems cool-
2) Rogue/Druid, actually being played by a good role-play and the concept is very cool
3) Hunter, typical bowman
4) Psychic warrior? No clue, possible tank
5?) another psychic but the caster kind, again no clue
6?) Rogue, this player has died on many occasions, so I will expect to be burying him at some point

7) me, hill dwarf cleric 14/10/16/10/15/8 pretty boring, warhammer shield and chainmail. I feel like I'm going to be the glue and common sense of the party. People are already splitting up and wandering off, 30 minutes into the game.

Now I got good domain spells covered with life.

With this party, am I stuck pulling tank and healer?

What spells do you like as a cleric, minus bless and cure wounds and the life domain?

Would a devotion paladin be better than a life cleric in this party?

Help me pimp this guy out for this party. Max out wis, or max out str, grab a level of this or that, or grab that feat? Only going to 10th level.

Thanks, oh and no spoilers for new Ravenloft Campaign. But moonbeam could be useful.

[Ninja_Prawn]

It looks like you're pretty close to the 'platonic cleric' that Angry talks about in his encounter building articles. Essentially your role is as a firefighter - you'll never be the best at any one task, but you can be second-best at several, so you can shift your party role to adjust the balance of the whole group. Even in social situations, you can compensate for your low Charisma by having a good insight modifier and letting the warlock do most of the talking.

So I'd put a bit thought into your spell list every day; don't be afraid to make wholesale changes. I'd say Wis is more important to you than Str, because it's applicable to more situations (due to the flexibility of spellcasting). I can't think of any 'must-have' feats, but you might feel differently after a few sessions.

[Dimcair]

What spells do you like as a cleric, minus bless and cure wounds and the life domain?


How about this for a start?

1st Level:

Buff: Protection from Evil and Good is something I'd always have prepared in the later levels, obvious reasons.

Offensive: Guiding Bolt is a solid choice for Dmg

Utility: Sanctuary as 'oh ****' button

2nd Level

Defensive: I am assuming you will pick Prayer of healing if that is your shtik? I'm not a big fan but it can be handy.

Offensive: Spiritual weapon is your DMG here, not very bursty but it adds up.

3rd Level

Utility/Offensive/Defensive/Fun: Animate Dead (cmon, who doesn't like servants)

Utility: Dispel Magic, just so important.

[djreynolds]

It looks like you're pretty close to the 'platonic cleric' that Angry talks about in his encounter building articles. Essentially your role is as a firefighter - you'll never be the best at any one task, but you can be second-best at several, so you can shift your party role to adjust the balance of the whole group. Even in social situations, you can compensate for your low Charisma by having a good insight modifier and letting the warlock do most of the talking.

So I'd put a bit thought into your spell list every day; don't be afraid to make wholesale changes. I'd say Wis is more important to you tthan Str, because it's applicable to more situations (due to the flexibility of spellcasting). I can't think of any 'must-have' feats, but you might feel differently after a few sessions.


How about this for a start?

1st Level:

Buff: Protection from Evil and Good is something I'd always have prepared in the later levels, obvious reasons.

Offensive: Guiding Bolt is a solid choice for Dmg

Utility: Sanctuary as 'oh ****' button

2nd Level

Defensive: I am assuming you will pick Prayer of healing if that is your shtik? I'm not a big fan but it can be handy.

Offensive: Spiritual weapon is your DMG here, not very bursty but it adds up.

3rd Level

Utility/Offensive/Defensive/Fun: Animate Dead (cmon, who doesn't like servants)

Utility: Dispel Magic, just so important.

I like not having to prepare bless and cure stuff. I like the spell list, protection from evil will be useful, and sanctuary ****** perfect analogy and good for others

How is warding bond? Perhaps that psychic warrior will need some help

Wisdom will be huge for using sacred flame, question since sacred flame is a save or suck, does it suffer at all when used in melee?

I do feel very generic, "platonic", in fact I hadn't finished my name and people were calling me "Church," so that may stick actually. And right on about feats, I would say that maxing wisdom is key and will eat up my ASI/Feat at 4th and 8th. I would take resilient con or maybe warcaster, but they seem expensive as does sentinel.

[Dimcair]

How is warding bond? Perhaps that psychic warrior will need some help

Wisdom will be huge for using sacred flame, question since sacred flame is a save or suck, does it suffer at all when used in melee?

people were calling me "Church," so that may stick actuallyl

From what I read of Warding bond, it is somewhat situational and very inflexible. Also, what it does is it halves the damage on one character, but you take the other half. So there is no NET hp to be gained Per Se.

Sacred flame is not a save or suck though, it is simply a cantrip attack that doesn't target AC but a save instead. And no, there are no disadvantages for using a cantrip in melee.

My last Dnd 3.5 cleric of lathander went simply by 'Father'. I grew bored of it very fast though. If I support I like to support more actively, shape the battlefield and make the BBEG react to my spells, not the other way around.

[djreynolds]

From what I read of Warding bond, it is somewhat situational and very inflexible. Also, what it does is it halves the damage on one character, but you take the other half. So there is no NET hp to be gained Per Se.

Sacred flame is not a save or suck though, it is simply a cantrip attack that doesn't target AC but a save instead. And no, there are no disadvantages for using a cantrip in melee.

My last Dnd 3.5 cleric of lathander went simply by 'Father'. I grew bored of it very fast though. If I support I like to support more actively, shape the battlefield and make the BBEG react to my spells, not the other way around.

I don't have to roll for sacred flame, the DM does. Right?
I'm going Sune, similar to Lathander. Should be a fun game.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I don't have to roll for sacred flame, the DM does. Right?
I'm going Sune, similar to Lathander. Should be a fun game.

I don't know about similar... different alignments, different sexes, only moderate overlap in portfolio. All they really share is their suggested domains, which is an entirely meta concept.

Anyway, yes, the DM rolls if you attack with Sacred Flame. You just set the DC.

[djreynolds]

I don't know about similar... different alignments, different sexes, only moderate overlap in portfolio. All they really share is their suggested domains, which is an entirely meta concept.

Anyway, yes, the DM rolls if you attack with Sacred Flame. You just set the DC.

Clerics of life, and light too.
But I wanted to play chaotic good,

[Regulas]

I guess a few thoughts not sure if any of it is relevant:

* In general don't bother healing in combat unless someone's close to actually dying, especially with the extra Life efficiency. Better to helping combat then topping someone up, and save the healing for after combat. Not to mention that it's just more fun not being a healbot.
* In a similar vein battlefield support like buffs, or de-buffs will often be more useful then direct damage especially since your group has plenty of that.
* Personally I would favour Wis over Str, since attacks may often simply be a back-up option even if you do go into melee, however you will defiantly want enough str to wear plate.
* If being common sense is boring, then be crazy glue. That is just because you are trying to get people to do the rational thing doesn't mean you have to do it in a rational way.

[djreynolds]

I guess a few thoughts not sure if any of it is relevant:

* In general don't bother healing in combat unless someone's close to actually dying, especially with the extra Life efficiency. Better to helping combat then topping someone up, and save the healing for after combat. Not to mention that it's just more fun not being a healbot.
* In a similar vein battlefield support like buffs, or de-buffs will often be more useful then direct damage especially since your group has plenty of that.
* Personally I would favour Wis over Str, since attacks may often simply be a back-up option even if you do go into melee, however you will defiantly want enough str to wear plate.
* If being common sense is boring, then be crazy glue. That is just because you are trying to get people to do the rational thing doesn't mean you have to do it in a rational way.

All points are excellent and relevant.

I will use a lot of bless and aid and sanctuary.

My strength is 14 and with sacred flame available, I may buff up wisdom. I like strength but I think we are only going to 10 in Ravenloft, so I was thinking to max out Wisdom by level 8. Only 2 ASI. I mean war caster, resilient con, and heavy armor master look good. The guy with 1d10 hit points is our archery based ranger. So I'm sure I will be the front line attraction at the Undead fest.

Playing at level 1 and on, its really tough to try to reach out and multiclass even, as I really could use the feat/asi sooner.

And yes already people are being dumb, wandering off in the haunted castle... alone. DM and a director's dream.

[Dimcair]

Let one of them die. It is a good lesson, not just for the other characters (in character) but also wandering off splits the attention of the DM and makes everything last twice as long.

Just keep in mind, sacred flame hits for 1d8 against a Dex save based on your Save DC. That means that sometimes it is not your go to shtik, e.g. something has high dex and good saves.

[Biggstick]

Level 4: +2 wis or warcaster
Level 8: +2 wis or warcaster

Level 1 spells to always have prepared: Healing Word, Command.
Situational Level 1 spells to have prepared: Protection from Evil, Detect Magic, Sanctuary, Shield of Faith

Level 2 spells to always have prepared: Prayer of Healing
Situational Level 2 spells to have prepared: Blindness/Deafness, Hold Person, Silence

Level 3 spells to always have prepared: Mass healing word, Spirit guardians
Situational Level 3 spells to have prepared: Too many to list



The list of automatically prepared spells that being a life cleric provides really opens you up since you'll have Bless, Cure Wounds, Lesser Restoration, Spiritual Weapon, Revivify, etc etc. In combat you should only be using healing word to bring someone back if they're making death saving throws (Or your channel divinity if multiple people are making death throws, make sure to abuse that thing, it comes back on a short rest). The only heal you should be casting outside combat is Prayer of Healing. It's going to give you the most bang for buck for your entire group, but only use it if a good portion of the party has taken over 10 damage a piece. Once you hit level 5, your Channel Divinity + mass healing word combo is a great way to bring an entire group back from super low hp in one round of combat.

Don't put any more points into Strength; dwarves don't have to worry about the Str requirement of heavy armor.

Someone else said it in an above post, you are the fire fighter of the group. You probably won't be the best at anything, but you will most likely be second best at it. Run around in heavy armor, a shield, and an open hand. Don't be afraid to run into melee to serve as a tank or secondary tank. Cast Sacred Flame in melee range (Since it's a save, you aren't casting the spell with disadvantage). Other then that, you've got a great set-up for your character.

[Biggstick]

I forgot to mention in the previous post my thoughts on Warcaster. Taking Warcaster is a possibility instead of an ASI as it would replace your opportunity melee attacks with opportunity spell attacks, which include Sacred Flame and Command (There are plenty more, but these are the standard two I would consider using). Sacred flame for a little damage, Command to completely control an enemy with a one word command for the rest of their turn.

And all the other sweet benefits of Warcaster (Cast spells with both hands occupied, advantage on maintaining spell concentration).

[djreynolds]

I forgot to mention in the previous post my thoughts on Warcaster. Taking Warcaster is a possibility instead of an ASI as it would replace your opportunity melee attacks with opportunity spell attacks, which include Sacred Flame and Command (There are plenty more, but these are the standard two I would consider using). Sacred flame for a little damage, Command to completely control an enemy with a one word command for the rest of their turn.

And all the other sweet benefits of Warcaster (Cast spells with both hands occupied, advantage on maintaining spell concentration).

So do I max out wisdom, as there will only be two ASI, this Ravenloft is only level 10. My wisdom is 16. My strength is 14, I know divine strike comes on at 8, but I do not see it as a wise decision to put anymore into strength. I like the idea of using sacred flame on AoO, but it would be at the cost of a +1 on my spell DC.

War caster seems like a very good choice. I'm just stuck with an 18 wisdom and warcaster or a 20 wisdom. I'm the only guy with heavy armor, so I will be the tank, war caster will give me more than resilient con. I can always recast a spell if I lose concentration anyhow.

We'll see, war caster seems like a good choice.

[Biggstick]

So do I max out wisdom, as there will only be two ASI, this Ravenloft is only level 10. My wisdom is 16. My strength is 14, I know divine strike comes on at 8, but I do not see it as a wise decision to put anymore into strength. I like the idea of using sacred flame on AoO, but it would be at the cost of a +1 on my spell DC.

War caster seems like a very good choice. I'm just stuck with an 18 wisdom and warcaster or a 20 wisdom. I'm the only guy with heavy armor, so I will be the tank, war caster will give me more than resilient con. I can always recast a spell if I lose concentration anyhow.

We'll see, war caster seems like a good choice.

Neither choice is bad. It's going to be based on what you think is more useful. I just gave the options that are most ideal for your situation. If you do decide to take Warcaster though, you won't have to spend time remembering to sheathe or un-sheathe your weapon every time you want to cast a spell.

[djreynolds]

Neither choice is bad. It's going to be based on what you think is more useful. I just gave the options that are most ideal for your situation. If you do decide to take Warcaster though, you won't have to spend time remembering to sheathe or un-sheathe your weapon every time you want to cast a spell.

In your opinion, how important is it for me to max out wisdom. It seems the party has enough casting power. Now I know Ravenloft should be full of undead and wisdom will affect turning, but its a +1. War Caster gives 3 big perks to me. All three are huge. Granted my shield is my holy symbol, but your right I can sheathe or unsheathe my weapon during a turn. At this low level, proficiency in my con saves doesn't seem huge. And I like the idea of using sacred flame a lot, radiant damage is the bomb.

So is that +1 I'm losing worth it for the 3 big perks from War Caster, especially since I will be a "forced" tanker. I'm leaning towards war caster, I see lots of AoOs. Bonus action, healing word.

This is good advice so please keep it up.

[Biggstick]

In your opinion, how important is it for me to max out wisdom. It seems the party has enough casting power. Now I know Ravenloft should be full of undead and wisdom will affect turning, but its a +1. War Caster gives 3 big perks to me. All three are huge. Granted my shield is my holy symbol, but your right I can sheathe or unsheathe my weapon during a turn. At this low level, proficiency in my con saves doesn't seem huge. And I like the idea of using sacred flame a lot, radiant damage is the bomb.

So is that +1 I'm losing worth it for the 3 big perks from War Caster, especially since I will be a "forced" tanker. I'm leaning towards war caster, I see lots of AoOs. Bonus action, healing word.

This is good advice so please keep it up.

It might only be a +1, but if you're using Sacred Flame 75 percent of the time, having that extra +1 on the DC will be a big deal. Every single heal you cast will have an extra hp attached to it. Once you know what the DM is likely to do with your combat situations, you can make a better choice. In some world's (the DM never has a baddie move in a situation to incur an opportunity attack, enemies aren't hitting you when you have your concentration up, you're never having issues sheathing/un-sheathing your weapon) Warcaster won't be as effective as the +1 wis.

Without knowing how your DM actually works his combat's, I would personally go with Warcaster at level 4 and the +2 Wis at Level 8. Again, that's w/o knowing your particular DM's combat techniques.

[djreynolds]

It might only be a +1, but if you're using Sacred Flame 75 percent of the time, having that extra +1 on the DC will be a big deal. Every single heal you cast will have an extra hp attached to it. Once you know what the DM is likely to do with your combat situations, you can make a better choice. In some world's (the DM never has a baddie move in a situation to incur an opportunity attack, enemies aren't hitting you when you have your concentration up, you're never having issues sheathing/un-sheathing your weapon) Warcaster won't be as effective as the +1 wis.

Without knowing how your DM actually works his combat's, I would personally go with Warcaster at level 4 and the +2 Wis at Level 8. Again, that's w/o knowing your particular DM's combat techniques.

I had a dwarf abjurer and made the mistake of putting too much into strength. With a cantrip you can use that for all your melee needs. So I will go war caster at 4th.

I'm curious how turn undead will play out in Ravenloft, may need more wisdom

[djreynolds]

So now we stand at level 2. The hill dwarf life cleric can take a beating. AC18, got hit twice for 10 total and was still standing.

I must focus on not blowing spells on healing all the time. Now granted the armored skeletons can hit hard, I mean losing 5 hit points at 1st level knocks you to half. But if that happens, it may be better just to have that guy leave melee and go ranged. So when we find a merchant, everyone needs something ranged. Casting healing word is awesome, but after I casted bless I was out of spells. Sacred flame is sweet, unsure if the DM missed it, or perhaps there is no disadvantage to using it in melee since it is save or suck.

We also lost one of our rogues, excellent role player who I hope comes back. As I forced the group to short rest to recover the 10 hit points I had lost, he was role-playing and got killed by a specter, DM rolled a 20 and took his character sheet like it was a trophy. He rolled a 3 on his con save. Have to remember to bury him at some point.

So first, do not go anywhere without me, the cleric. Bless might have saved him. Second, everyone without a cantrip needs a bow or hand axe or dagger to throw. Thirdly, even with an 18AC at 1st level, you can die easily. I was at 2 hit points. Fourth, save for plate. Fifth, take the dodge action. Often overlooked, saved me as I used my body to stuff the breach on the stairs. Just get in the way and take the dodge action. Sixth, I really like the ranger. Perhaps on paper they look lackluster, but wood elves with a bow are just awesome. Seventh, do go alone and do not touch stuff that may be seen as desecration by the undead.

And last, when you go to Ravenloft, obviously not by choice, can some one roll up a PALADIN, I mean really "throw me a frickin' bone". Or a fighter. Or barbarian. Or wizard. We lack all of these. I got a warlock, my kid, undying archetype, good thinking. A rogue, who's dead. Another rogue who doesn't have expertise in perception, a bard, a ranger/archer ( thank the gods for him and his bow), and 2 mystics. I mean really, we are fighting undead and you are trying to read what, nothing. They're undead.

[Drackolus]

I played a homebrew kobold (Just took variant human but with ability score modifiers as -4 str, +2 dex, +1 other, added in small which is not really a gain or loss most of the time), and to overcome my str deficiency I grabbed m.initiate:druid for Shillelagh and goodberry for 40 free healing between fights. However, for Shillelagh to function you must have warcaster, because unless you want to lose you bonus action to recast it every time you wanna cast a v,s or s spell (bless, cure wounds) you can't keep it up easily. However, once you do have it, you can bless+shillelagh on turn one then spiritual weapon + attack on turn two, making two blessed wis-based attacks. Lay down the hurt. And, since you're a dwarf, you don't even have to worry about heavy armor weighing you down. Take that magic initiate for shillelagh and you can wear full plate with 8 str. Buuuuuut, you won't be fully functional till 8. Ouch. Depends on how much of a stickler your dm is for somatic components and letting go of your shillelagh. v,s,m isn't a problem because of your shield, however. Then again, even with divine strike, sacred flame does almost the same damage, and targetting ac is frequently the same as targetting dex save, and radiant is pretty much the best damage type. In my mind, str is a wasted stat on a hill dwarf cleric when you need no stat for your ac and you can attack with your casting stat in every situation. Having a melee option is VERY nice however.
I mean, if it really bugs you, pick up produce flame from m.initiate:druid. You can even still pick up the other two. Then you get to attack with wisdom without annoying shillelagh upkeep. Really, I feel it's the best feat for a life cleric.
Of course, once you max con and wis... what else are you gonna do with your stats? Actually, you could raise your cha and consider inspiring leader. I think warcaster and magic initiate will help you more, however. And resilient:con. And higher wisdom. So, sure, you can dump str with a hill dwarf life cleric, but that really doesn't help you all that much all things considered.

[djreynolds]

I think the campaign is to 10th level, it seems sacred flame can be used in melee since it is not considered a ranged spell attack or it would have, "make a ranged spell attack" in its descriptor.

I may end up just putting is all into wisdom and spam sacred flame, dex saving throw, so not much will evade it. My only big complaint of 5E, weighing feats vs stat increases. Its tough. How much use will all of war caster grant me? How often will I be in a position to use a spell on an AoO vs undead? Resilient con seems awesome, but tough to weigh vs +1 to my spell casting.

SPOLIER AHEAD FOR RAVENLOFT

Second session, level 2, death house. Once again we got pasted. Turn undead sucks, I turned ghoul and the other paralyzed me and the other auto-crit, from 22 to 2 in the blink of an eye, auto-crit isn't funny when the joke is on you.

And once again, same excuse from crazy players, "It's my character" Why do people touch stuff? If you roll low on your perception check, whatever the DM tells you is a lie.

But life cleric even rolling a 1 can still heal 3 from blessed healer at level 2 and 3 from wisdom, 7 hit points on a cure wound, not shabby for a bad roll. But next time, I may use channel divinity to just heal, turn undead so far has turned out as well as my champion and his crit percentage, not good.

Perhaps I will live to 3rd level and get spiritual weapon. I hope. Bard's song of rest is really a big boon on short rests as is restoring channel divinity. And the ranger is awesome, for just early level play that +2 archery style is a huge boon coupled with hunter's mark.

So will turn undead get any better? I hope it does. Ghouls suck. And as our party increases in size the CR gets harder, I'm seriously thinking of casting shield of faith and next turn taking the dodge action and just road blocking. Because its just more ghouls that are kicking my behind, perhaps I can hold them off long enough that ranger and warlock to kill them.

[djreynolds]

I apologize for the double post. SPOILERS AHEAD 3/24

3rd session Death House. Mimics suck, practice what you preach. I did not check the door. High AC is awesome, just when you finally get hit, it is usually a crit. From 22 hit points to 1. Did not die though. Thanks Sune for channel divinity and short rests, I can heal 10 hit points basically every short rest without expending hit dice, really helps out when you are stupid and do not head your own advice.

Everything is milestone for levels, so I'm waiting on 3rd for spiritual weapon. PFGE is awesome. Sacred flame is also sweet.

The mystics in my party are powerful, they can really lay out some damage. And rangers are really good and very reliable early levels.

It is very dangerous living in the Death House.

[djreynolds]

Again apologies for the double post 4/01/16

SPOILERS AHEAD

We just fought a shambling mound, CR5 for 6 level 2 characters. That mystic warrior is AWESOME, saved our bacon. My cleric with 22 hit points, got cleared out in 1 attack.

Note to self... Having more than 1 healer is great, thank SUNE. We have right now a ranger, warlock, cleric/warlock, mystic warrior, dex-based barbarian and my life cleric, who got cleaned out in the first round... so in combat healing is actually a big deal.

The death house was not a fun house. And everything is not undead in Ravenloft, still I got healed and immediately began healing those I could. We finally got out, and my cleric actually went first through the guillotine traps and succeeded. I felt a little sad as I didn't feel that we had completed everything in the house but we had to escape after getting beat up by the shambling mound.

The mystic warrior, can really nova, adding 1d10 to strikes. And the dex-based barbarian is actually very tanky at low levels.

Well I'll keep you posted.

[djreynolds]

Apologize for Double Posting 4/16/2016

SPOLIER AHEAD FOR RAVENLOFT

Ravenloft is a giant sandbox, I basically realized this almost posthumously, 3 night hags basically TPKed us.
There were no real warnings, aside from us getting our butts whooped. My kid has to reroll a new character, the rest of us got a pass.

Ravenloft is not linear. And my 3rd level Life Cleric couldn't keep up. But the rest survived.