Looking for a good rapid fire ranger build that is GAME LEGAL for 3.5

[LaRayna]

Hey guys, I've been looking around the forums for a good ranger build, and I've noticed that for several builds, ranger included, a LOT of these builds are nowhere near game legal at all. So that'ts what I have come to the forums for, a game legal for 3.5 ranger build that specializes in rapid fire arrow death.

[fishyfishyfishy]

You're really going to have to be more specific about "game legal", because from what I've seen on this forum it's all legit. The playground is notoriously obsessed with sticking to the Rules As Written (RAW).

[Darrin]

The best way to kill things with lots of arrows is a Swift Hunter build. Here's a typical one:

Typical Swift Hunter Archer
Race: Human, Azurin, or Strongheart Halfing, or Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion, Bonus: PB Shot, Bonus: Track
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot
3) Scout 1. Feat: Precise Shot. Skirmish 1d6.
4) Scout 2.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
6) Ranger 3. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+1.
7) Ranger 4. Swap Animal Companion -> Distracting Attack. Skirmish 2d6AC+2.
8) Ranger 5.
9) Ranger 6. Bonus: Manyshot. Feat: Greater Manyshot. Skirmish 3d6AC+2.
10) Scout 4. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 3d6AC+2/5d6+4.
11) Highland Stalker 1.
12) Highland Stalker 2. Feat: Improved Rapid Shot. Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4.
13) Ranger 7. Skirmish 4d6AC+3/6d6AC+5.
14) Ranger 8.
15) Ranger 9. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Skirmish 5d6AC+3/7d6AC+5.
16) Ranger 10.
17) Ranger 11. Bonus: Improved Precise Shot. Skirmish 5d6AC+4/7d6AC+6.
18) Ranger 12. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3)
19) Ranger 13. Camouflage. Skirmish 6d6AC+4/8d6AC+6.
20) Ranger 14. 4th level spells.

If you prefer more Travel Devotion earlier, maybe taking Improved Rapid Shot at 9th, you can slip in a 1-level dip into Cloistered Cleric at 10th to pick up Travel Devotion, Knowledge Devotion, and something else like the War domain (Asgardian Pantheon) or Magic domain (dragon deity Io). I'm also fond of throwing in Dragonborn of Bahamut to pick up flying (you can lose Endurance instead of your human bonus feat).

There are a lot of other variations (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?311366-Swift-Hunter-Build-Suggestions), bust most of them involve fewer levels of Ranger.

[EugeneVoid]

GAME LEGAL

You'll need to define what this means since it means so little when out of context. Are we doing core? Core + Completes? All 1st Party material? All 1st Party + Drag Mag?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Perhaps more telling, what do most of the builds you've seen have about them that's not legal by the rules?

[Extra Anchovies]

Darrin's Swift Hunter suggestion is about as good as you're gonna get for Ranger-centric archery. Personally, I'd swap out a Scout level for a Cleric level to get Travel Devotion for free, plus a turning pool to power it. With the base 3 from cleric, 4 from a Nightstick, and 1 from a Reliquary Holy Symbol, a character with 10 Charisma can use Travel Devotion five times per day - enough that you probably won't need Greater Manyshot.


Hey guys, I've been looking around the forums for a good ranger build, and I've noticed that for several builds, ranger included, a LOT of these builds are nowhere near game legal at all. So that'ts what I have come to the forums for, a game legal for 3.5 ranger build that specializes in rapid fire arrow death.

You've piqued my curiosity - mind linking one or two of these illegal builds?


You're really going to have to be more specific about "game legal", because from what I've seen on this forum it's all legit. The playground is notoriously obsessed with sticking to the Rules As Written (RAW).

Well, yeah. We don't have a DM overseeing things and adjudicating disputes or ambiguities here on the forum, so we tend to use exactly what's written in the books; interpretations may differ but the rules as written are a universal common ground on which a discussion can be had.

[DrMartin]

if the game won't reach high levels there's an alternative to travel devotion in Hidden Talent: Dimension Hop, a 1st level power that allows to teleport 10 feet as a swift action for 1 power point. Hidden talents provides a pool of 2 points to begin with.
Pros:
- you can do it more often from the get-go, without needing the cleric dip (especially if you pick a psionic race), and extra uses cost only 1000gp in the form of 1pp cognizance crystals
- you can now take psionic feats, like (greater) psionic shot, fell shot, speed of thought, run on walls...
Con:
- you bamf only 10 feet, so aside from less tactical flexibility, it's also harder to trigger improved skirmish (easiest way probably involves getting into sparring dummy of the master territory to Dimension Hop 10 feet + 10 ft step, but I personally don't know any GM who would allow that :D). something that would probably fly at a larger number of tables is to invest in Tumble to hit that DC40 to make 10 foot steps (rule from oriental adventures i think).
- you are already quite feat starved so probably you won't benefit from a lot of the expanded feat options

(If anybody knows or finds a way to improve one's manifester level with hidden talent without taking a psionic class, that'd fix it, but I'm not aware such a method exists)

[eggynack]

Ranger's fine, but I think that, if you really want to launch arrowy death, you're going to want the ultra-ranger. That class' "launch tons of arrows" ability is a great asset to any game legal 3.5 character. For feats, I'd suggest the following:

1: point blank shot
3: precise shot
6: rapid shot
7: beam shot
9: too many arrows
9.5: why not some arrows?
12: the legendary upgrade of the ultra-ranger
2t: I shall consume the arrows and become as God
15: archery
18: manyshot

That's a pretty solid basic setup for any self respecting game legal ultra-ranger, but it's only the beginning. To really push things to the next level, you're going to want the legendary "Bow what done all the shooting", which should dramatically up your arrow count. It's a bit expensive though, so you might want to do some old fashioned atom splitting to raise the cash. Many rule abiding folk would recommend the professional ultra-ranger prestige class, but it's a trap by my reckoning. Doesn't advance your arrow bendiness, which is your main stat if you want to go big.

You're also going to want to pick your spells carefully. I like to mix in some utility, but if you're just after the best archery in the game, then anything with "hurty arrow" in the name can go right on your prepared list without being too far from optimal. Most skills are unimportant, but you're going to want to max out respectability and bow strength, the latter with obvious merit and the former enabling you to pick up a cadre of arrow folk as you level. Speaking of, you're going to want to name your sentient bow companion Beans Ahoy, cause that's a prerequisite to some of that stuff I listed. Don't forget it.

Anyway, that's a pretty good primer on constructing the most game legal archer imaginable, but a single post can only scratch the surface. Ultra-rangers are a delicate business, prone to going wonky at the first sign of shenanigans. The devil is in the details when it comes to archery, even moreso with ultra-archery, and if you want to play serious, then you're going to be up all night cooking archery noodles and preparing testaments to the bow. It's not a game plan for the weak of spirit, in other words. But, if you're dedicated, then you can transcend the bounds of D&D and become unto the archery kings of old, devouring those weakest in your path.

[fishyfishyfishy]

Well, yeah. We don't have a DM overseeing things and adjudicating disputes or ambiguities here on the forum, so we tend to use exactly what's written in the books; interpretations may differ but the rules as written are a universal common ground on which a discussion can be had.

I understand the reason why, and I don't disagree with it. I was only stating this for the OP's benefit.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by eggynack
*snip*

I suppose this is meant to be funny, but it isn't, and I don't see how it helps the OP in any way.

Mocking someone with less game experience doesn't contribute to the thread.

[paranoidbox]

I suppose this is meant to be funny, but it isn't, and I don't see how it helps the OP in any way.

Mocking someone with less game experience doesn't contribute to the thread.

But passive-agressiveness always works as far as I know.

[bjoern]

I suppose this is meant to be funny, but it isn't, and I don't see how it helps the OP in any way.

Mocking someone with less game experience doesn't contribute to the thread.

Meh, it made me laugh. It would take more effort on my part to be offended by something funny than to just laugh at something that is funny.

[dascarletm]

I suppose this is meant to be funny, but it isn't, and I don't see how it helps the OP in any way.

Mocking someone with less game experience doesn't contribute to the thread.

Jokes contribute. It's just to the readers' happiness.

[Snowbluff]

So you should pick up Champions of Ruin:
1) splitting bow: +3 enchantment that doubles now attacks
2) Arrowsplit: 3rd level ranger spell that makes next show multiply by 1d4+1. Combines with splitting to make a 2d4+2 Maybe take Extra spell to learn it on your wizard slots or a wand.

Next, some wizard levels:
3) learn hail of stone: a first level spell in the spell compendium. No hit, no save, no spell resistance. Just damage.
4) pick up Fell Drain from Libris mortis. This adds a negative level to a damage spell for a +2 a lot adjustment.

Finally, 2 levels of arcane archer:
5) the second level gives you imbue arrow.
6) cast arrow split, maybe maximize.
7) Imbue Arrow: Fell Drain Hail of Stone. Hit for 5d4 x 2d4+2 (or just 10 if maximized arrow split) and then 2d4+2 (or ten) negative levels.

There. Literally raining death with those negative levels. You can just aim that the dudes feet to trigger the spell, and it will hit for ~87.5 damage, and then another 35 hp loss from the average of 7 negative levels. A maximized arrow split will do 125 damage and 50 hp loss from negative levels.

And I've lost track of the question. I'd say do the first 2 steps for sure though.

[Maxrim]

Heya! You really are going to have to specify what you mean by "game legal" if you want help, but I'll see what I can do.

Darrin posted a great build for a Point Blank Range archer, personally I'd pick up a cloistered cleric dip so as not to worry about spending a billion feats on Travel Devotion, but it's a personal preference thing.

The Archery Handbook, found here: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0
Is a wonderful resource! Use it.

Guided Shot is available from the Spell Compendium and Complete Adventurer. It negates range penalties for a round as a 1st level spell and a swift action.
Hawkeye is available from the Spell Compendium, Complete Divine, and Complete Adventurer. It increases your range by 50%, and gives a +5 bonus to spot checks for 10 minutes/level.
Hunter's Mercy is available from the Spell Compendium. It takes a standard action to cast, but your first hit in the next round is automatically a critical hit.

I've found that most people who envision being rangers tend to think less Legolas, more sniper that appreciates nature. If you're interested in something a little longer range, then go for something like this.

The following build assumes that 1st party content & Dragon Magazine is allowed.
Race: Human, for the bonus feat and to qualify for Shiba Protector
Stat Priority: Wisdom (For Spot, Zen Archery, and Shiba Protector), Strength (For Composite Bows), Constitution (Always vital), Intelligence (Take advantage of your skill list, an 11 will make the Wizard dip nice), Dexterity (AC, and I think some archery feats have Dex prereqs), and lastly Charisma (Wild Empathy and social skills)
1) Mystic Ranger (Drag Mag 336, pg 105) 1. Feat: Combat Expertise, Racial: Zen Archery, Ranger: Track
2) Mystic Ranger 2.
3) Mystic Ranger 3. Feat: Iron Will (Or use an Otyugh Hole from Complete Scoundrel), Ranger: Rapid Shot
4) Mystic Ranger 4. Ranger: Endurance
5) Targetteer Fighter Variant (Drag Mag 310, pg 38) 1. Fighter: Point Blank Shot, EWP (Greatbow, Elven Double Bow)
6) Targetteer Fighter Variant 2. Feat: Far Shot, Fighter: Arrow Swarm
7) Wizard (Simple Fighter Feat Variant from Unearthed Arcana) 1. Wizard: Precise Shot, Hawk Familiar: Alertness
8) Shiba Protector 1
9) Martial Monk (Drag Mag 310, pg 45) 1. Feat: Improved Rapid Shot, Monk: Woodland Archer, Monk: Imp. Unarmed Strike
10) Martial Monk 2. Monk: Manyshot
11) Deepwood Sniper (Masters of the Wild, pg 52) 1.
12) Deepwood Sniper 2. Feat: Improved Rapid Shot
13) Deepwood Sniper 3.
14) Deepwood Sniper 4.
15) Deepwood Sniper 5. Feat: Able Sniper
16) Deepwood Sniper 6.
17) Deepwood Sniper 7.
18) Cloistered Cleric (Variant from Unearthed Arcana) 1. Feat: Concealed Ambush, Cleric: Knowledge Devotion, Travel Devotion
19) Mystic Ranger 5.
20) Mystic Ranger 6.

Those last couple Mystic Ranger levels give 3rd level spells, such as Champions of Ruin's Arrowsplit, and Spell Compendium/Complete Adventurer's Arrow Storm. Those are nice.

Ideally you'd be wielding a +5, Splitting, Distance, Seeking, Serrenwood Elven Double Composite (Str Bonus) Greatbow. With that, a friend to cast Haste on you, and the above build, you've got an attack routine of
+16/+16/+18/+18/+18/+18/+18/+18/+18/+18/+18/+18/+13/+13/+8/+8/+3/+3, adding twice your wisdom modifier to all of those attacks. With a Wisdom mod of 34 (18+5 from level+5 from Tome or Wishes+6 from Periapt), that's +40/+40/+42/+42/+42/+42/+42/+42/+42/+42/+42/+42/+37/+37/+32/+32/+27/+27. 18 attacks. That's without spells like Arrowsplit. The attack bonuses aren't TERRIBLE, but that's where the best part comes in, Woodland Archer. Every attack that misses gives all of your other attacks +4 to hit. So, worst case scenario, miss with the first 17 attacks and make the 18th at +95.
With Strongarm Bracers to wield a large bow, you'll be doing 2d8+5+Str+Wis damage with each and every shot, critting on a 19-20/x5.
You've got a range increment of 460ft, with Hawkeye and Guided Shot, that's no range penalty firing at 6900ft. Over a mile of range. Max out that spot check and it'll be your only limitation. Maybe have that friend that cast haste for you lend you some vision.

[Deophaun]

The devil is in the details when it comes to archery, even moreso with ultra-archery,
Pssh. If devils are in your details, you're doing archery wrong. They should be demons. Take Demonic Description for your 9th level feat. That way, you can spawn arrow demons when casting hurty arrow.

[eggynack]

I suppose this is meant to be funny, but it isn't, and I don't see how it helps the OP in any way.

Mocking someone with less game experience doesn't contribute to the thread.
I think I was more making fun of the notion that we Playground folk would put together a build that isn't game legal. Like, what would that even mean? Would we be suggesting non-existent game elements? Why would we even do that? It's just such a bizarre claim, and one that's borderline insulting. And, critically, I don't think it makes much sense even when said by someone with limited game knowledge. Also, at some point, the goal was just developing a ludicrously alien set of game rules which inexplicably uses transcendental numbers (t was tau, if that was unclear).


Pssh. If devils are in your details, you're doing archery wrong. They should be demons. Take Demonic Description for your 9th level feat. That way, you can spawn arrow demons when casting hurty arrow.
It's a good feat, for certain, but the fact that you're limited to "hurty arrow" rather than its sister spells limits its staying power somewhat. Sure, you're not using "crappy hurty arrow", but you really want to be keeping up with spells like "deluxe hurty arrow", "hurty arrow what doubled its pain", and, "hurty arrow of the selfless tome". Still, I agree that missing demonic description was an oversight, given the power of the feat when you upgrade the arrow demons with feats like "how bout arrow demons?" and "you say you want an arrow demon?" With those, it's definitely possible to overcome the issue intrinsic to using hurty arrow classic (but not the spell "hurty arrow classic", which doesn't work with demonic description, as noted).

[LTwerewolf]

I think I was more making fun of the notion that we Playground folk would put together a build that isn't game legal. Like, what would that even mean? Would we be suggesting non-existent game elements? Why would we even do that? It's just such a bizarre claim, and one that's borderline insulting. And, critically, I don't think it makes much sense even when said by someone with limited game knowledge.


I think the emphasized part is important. It might have a little more credence when said by someone that provided details or has more than 1 post on the site, but I don't see a lot of builds coming across the boards that aren't legal, and not for quite awhile.

[dascarletm]

Eggy, you got it all wrong.

You need to just go full 20 in Power-Archer. It's Pathfinder, but I'm sure we can backport it. That's legal if you take the Backported feat.

It doesn't matter what feats you take at that point. Load up on point blank shot as every feat to stack the +1 to hit and damage.

It only gets 12th level spells though, so you lose a little power there.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by eggynack
I think I was more making fun of the notion that we Playground folk would put together a build that isn't game legal.

This didn't come across.


Originally Posted by eggynack
It's just such a bizarre claim….

I don't see anything bizarre in the OP's question. This is a new member of the Playground, who doesn't have the average Playgrounder's system knowledge and vocabulary. That's all. Cut her a little slack.

[eggynack]

Eggy, you got it all wrong.

You need to just go full 20 in Power-Archer. It's Pathfinder, but I'm sure we can backport it. That's legal if you take the Backported feat.

It doesn't matter what feats you take at that point. Load up on point blank shot as every feat to stack the +1 to hit and damage.

It only gets 12th level spells though, so you lose a little power there.
I'm not an expert in the workings of pathfinder, but reading through it, I don't think it's exactly what the OP is looking for. Power-archer seems to be all about that one ultra-powered shot that murders whoever it strikes. A very powerful thing, but not necessarily the thing he seeks. Ultra-ranger, meanwhile, is all about darkening the sky with arrows, especially if you take the "darkening the sky with arrows" ACF.

This didn't come across.

I don't see anything bizarre in the OP's question. This is a new member of the Playground, who doesn't have the average Playgrounder's system knowledge and vocabulary. That's all. Cut her a little slack.
I'm not sure how you could miss it. He explicitly claimed that several of the builds he found on the forums are not game legal, that they were not even close. And he specifically sought game legality several separate times, a thing which, as I noted in the post you just quoted, is an intrinsically strange thing. It'd still be strange even if he didn't accuse us of breaking the rules with our builds, but he did do that. Seriously, just... "a LOT of these builds are nowhere near game legal at all," and by the fact that he was looking around the forums, forums that are strongly implied to be these forums given the way he used "the forums" next, the underlying claim is that he found a bunch of illegal builds on this forum. Like, I'm doing this whole semantic breakdown post right now, but that kinda hides the fact that all of this stuff is incredibly clear.

[Aleolus]

To be fair, not everyone can see a distinction between "rules legal" and "table allowable", and there is a very big difference between them. A perfect example, Pun-Pun is 100% rules legal, but I can't imagine a DM allowing someone to actually play him, barring some heavy restrictions. I think the OP was looking for table permissible builds, which we can't give without knowing more about the table they play at and what is and is not allowable at it

[Deophaun]

I'm not an expert in the workings of pathfinder, but reading through it, I don't think it's exactly what the OP is looking for. Power-archer seems to be all about that one ultra-powered shot that murders whoever it strikes. A very powerful thing, but not necessarily the thing he seeks. Ultra-ranger, meanwhile, is all about darkening the sky with arrows, especially if you take the "darkening the sky with arrows" ACF.

I will admit, I am a fan of Power-Archer, especially if you take the Shot Through the Heart, You're Too Late, and Give Love a Bad Name feat combo. Do some mounted archery on a steel horse, and everyone will want you, regardless of if you're undead or not.

[Snowbluff]

To be fair, not everyone can see a distinction between "rules legal" and "table allowable", and there is a very big difference between them. A perfect example, Pun-Pun is 100% rules legal, but I can't imagine a DM allowing someone to actually play him, barring some heavy restrictions. I think the OP was looking for table permissible builds, which we can't give without knowing more about the table they play at and what is and is not allowable at it

This is true. Either way, I'm dying to know what the deal is.

[eggynack]

To be fair, not everyone can see a distinction between "rules legal" and "table allowable", and there is a very big difference between them. A perfect example, Pun-Pun is 100% rules legal, but I can't imagine a DM allowing someone to actually play him, barring some heavy restrictions. I think the OP was looking for table permissible builds, which we can't give without knowing more about the table they play at and what is and is not allowable at it
Plausible, though I personally can't see much but difference between the two. I could imagine someone saying the former and meaning the latter, but it's a really weird thing to do, at least to my mind.

I will admit, I am a fan of Power-Archer, especially if you take the Shot Through the Heart, You're Too Late, and Give Love a Bad Name feat combo. Do some mounted archery on a steel horse, and everyone will want you, regardless of if you're undead or not.
It's a great combo, no denying that. Really puts you at the nexus of sniper themed archery, diplomancy, and pseudo-Hungarian shrieking techniques.

[Anlashok]

Instead of all those complicated feat combos wouldn't you be better off taking 20 levels of mage and just casting Persisted Better Fighter Than a Fighter and Extended No Really Why Is A Ninth Level Spellcaster This Good At Martial Combat?


Then you can spend your feats on other things.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Instead of all those complicated feat combos wouldn't you be better off taking 20 levels of mage and just casting Persisted Better Fighter Than a Fighter and Extended No Really Why Is A Ninth Level Spellcaster This Good At Martial Combat?


Then you can spend your feats on other things.

Because CoDzilla does it better?

[Deophaun]

Instead of all those complicated feat combos wouldn't you be better off taking 20 levels of mage and just casting Persisted Better Fighter Than a Fighter and Extended No Really Why Is A Ninth Level Spellcaster This Good At Martial Combat?
I think it's assumed that you played a wizard in a previous campaign and cast win all the D&Ds upon hitting level 17. If it's your first time playing, of course you go that route.

[Necroticplague]

Question: how much Ranger has to be in the build? I find that rapid-fire archery typically involves not that much ranger, because the only things it has that benefit the style are Manyshot (which isn't altogether hard to qualify for) and Arrowsplit, so dipping so you can use wands is more efficient than take the class for a few levels.

That said, the easiest way I can think of if you want to be making a lot of arrows go through the air is to use Grafts to give yourself a large amount of extra arms, take the Multiweapon Fighting line, pick up Multitasking, Manyshot, and Improved Manyshot. User a full-attack to fire 3 times from each bow (plus iteratives on your main bow), then use Improved Manyshot from all but one pair of arms to pile on more attacks from all of your other bows. Of course, you might note this requires a whole freaking tone of feats, so going with a Fighter base is probably a good idea.

[nedz]

Mystic Ranger to pick up lots of castings of Arrow Storm (SpC) should do the trick. It also qualifies for all the usual Ranger archery stuff too.

[paranoidbox]

I'm not sure how you could miss it. He explicitly claimed that several of the builds he found on the forums are not game legal, that they were not even close. And he specifically sought game legality several separate times, a thing which, as I noted in the post you just quoted, is an intrinsically strange thing. It'd still be strange even if he didn't accuse us of breaking the rules with our builds, but he did do that. Seriously, just... "a LOT of these builds are nowhere near game legal at all," and by the fact that he was looking around the forums, forums that are strongly implied to be these forums given the way he used "the forums" next, the underlying claim is that he found a bunch of illegal builds on this forum. Like, I'm doing this whole semantic breakdown post right now, but that kinda hides the fact that all of this stuff is incredibly clear.

Look, fact is, your post was passive aggressive, partly because you didn't like the way they asked their question and partly because you didn't understand where they were coming from (and made no effort to find out). You could have come out and said: "Hey, that's kind of weird what you just said, and I find it a little bit insulting even, etc etc..." but instead you chose to post a somewhat debatable joke just to make sure this new person knew just how much you disliked their tone.

You are steeped in the customs and traditions of this forum, this new person is not. You could very well have, as someone suggested, cut them some slack, but you didn't. No matter the semantics of it, it wasn't very welcoming and it wasn't cool.

[eggynack]

Look, fact is, your post was passive aggressive, partly because you didn't like the way they asked their question and partly because you didn't understand where they were coming from (and made no effort to find out). You could have come out and said: "Hey, that's kind of weird what you just said, and I find it a little bit insulting even, etc etc..." but instead you chose to post a somewhat debatable joke just to make sure this new person knew just how much you disliked their tone.
I didn't then, and still don't, see a reasonable way to read his post outside of the way I read it. If his words meant a different thing than I thought they meant, like that builds here are book unlimited, then his words didn't indicate that to any extent whatsoever. At the time I made the post, I assumed his words meant the things that the words are supposed to mean, not that he accidentally misphrased stuff. Looking back, the latter situation is a plausible one, but my post was definitely in the context of me knowing exactly what they were saying, and not needing to find out, because the words mean something pretty specific. It'd be like a guy coming to your apple stand and asking, "Can I get a banana?" There are a couple of valid approaches there, but I don't really see, "That guy probably meant apple," as one of them.


You are steeped in the customs and traditions of this forum, this new person is not. You could very well have, as someone suggested, cut them some slack, but you didn't. No matter the semantics of it, it wasn't very welcoming and it wasn't cool.
I really don't see this as a matter of custom. It's not like game legal is a board defined term. If someone says RAW when they mean RAI, then that's jargon that's community unique, but I'd expect any person off the street to know what game legal means.

Beyond that, I don't think I was especially slack removing. Nothing I said was especially insulting. It was all just a joke about the notion of someone constructing a build that's not rules legal, cause I thought that was an interesting notion. Like, what would that even mean? Is the creator of the build breaking existent rules (by mistiming feats), or are they inventing new rules out of whole cloth? Then I dispensed advice from that perspective using my druid advice voice, and there ya go, a post.

[Deophaun]

You are steeped in the customs and traditions of this forum, this new person is not. You could very well have, as someone suggested, cut them some slack, but you didn't. No matter the semantics of it, it wasn't very welcoming and it wasn't cool.
I disagree. The eggynack build is notoriously feat intensive. It's tough to include Improved Slack Cutting, let alone the Thread Expertise feat tax on top of it. That means he would have opened himself up to a reply of opportunity if he attempted it.

[Eloel]

OP made an account, made a post, signed out 2 minutes after, and hasn't been back to the forums ever since.

Someone somewhere is reading all of this, laughing their heart off.

[paranoidbox]

*doubling tripling down*

If you want. I can see you're committed to this and that's your right, I guess.


OP made an account, made a post, signed out 2 minutes after, and hasn't been back to the forums ever since.

Someone somewhere is reading all of this, laughing their heart off.

This is possibly true. The thought did occur to me that it might be a drive-by trolling, but you never know. You don't have to sign in to read replies, after all. In which case........... yeah, I stand by my post to eggynack.

[LTwerewolf]

I have to stand by eggynack. It's not board protocol to explain what you mean when you say things. That's known as language and communication. When you make an accusation, you have to have something that backs it up for it to be taken as anything but a direct insult.

[DrKerosene]

I have trouble believing someone couldn't piece together a Swift-Hunter build that is legal for their own table, and I think the build presented on the first page is as good as it normally gets.

However, I also thought of the Heavy Weapons Elf from this optimization showcase:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471354-Weekly-Optimization-Showcase-Heavy-Weapons-Elf-(Tempest_Stormwind)

[ATHATH]

So you should pick up Champions of Ruin:
1) splitting bow: +3 enchantment that doubles now attacks
2) Arrowsplit: 3rd level ranger spell that makes next show multiply by 1d4+1. Combines with splitting to make a 2d4+2 Maybe take Extra spell to learn it on your wizard slots or a wand.

Next, some wizard levels:
3) learn hail of stone: a first level spell in the spell compendium. No hit, no save, no spell resistance. Just damage.
4) pick up Fell Drain from Libris mortis. This adds a negative level to a damage spell for a +2 a lot adjustment.

Finally, 2 levels of arcane archer:
5) the second level gives you imbue arrow.
6) cast arrow split, maybe maximize.
7) Imbue Arrow: Fell Drain Hail of Stone. Hit for 5d4 x 2d4+2 (or just 10 if maximized arrow split) and then 2d4+2 (or ten) negative levels.

There. Literally raining death with those negative levels. You can just aim that the dudes feet to trigger the spell, and it will hit for ~87.5 damage, and then another 35 hp loss from the average of 7 negative levels. A maximized arrow split will do 125 damage and 50 hp loss from negative levels.

And I've lost track of the question. I'd say do the first 2 steps for sure though.
Can we use Sword of the Arcane Order and Mystic Ranger instead of dipping Wizard?

[paranoidbox]

However, I also thought of the Heavy Weapons Elf from this optimization showcase:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471354-Weekly-Optimization-Showcase-Heavy-Weapons-Elf-(Tempest_Stormwind)

I was getting excited as I figured it would be an elf with a greatbow or a bonebow, but it's basically a ranged warblade. (I mean, nothing wrong with it, but I have a fondness for "great" weapons.)

[Snowbluff]

Can we use Sword of the Arcane Order and Mystic Ranger instead of dipping Wizard?

Yes, but you'll need to buy a spellbook or get one with the Magical Training Feat (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting) so you can prepare the wizard spell.

Now, I'm not sure if you qualify as casting 1st level arcane spells with this method. If you don't, probably take Southern Magician, Versatile Spellcaster (write a first level wizard spell into the spellbook from magical training, and use the 0th level slots to cast it), or Alternative Spell Source. This should let you do it with not wizard.

However, doing a one level dip in wizard combined with Sowrd of the Arcane Order Mystic Ranger might just be easier. In addition, the wizard level 1 ACF that swaps the Scribe Scroll feat for a fighter bonus feat would be helpful in saving you a feat.

So MysticRanger6/Wizard1/Arcane Archer2 would be the suggested build if you want to be ranger-heavy.