xkcd 1 (As Far As I Can Tell): Wow, That's a Really Cool Baby!

[Disc Lorde]

This thread is for discussing the webcomic xkcd by Randall Munroe, the self-described "webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language." Also for discussing the related series "what if?", giving "serious scientific answers to absurd hypothetical questions", also by Randall Munroe. I'm surprised there isn't a thread for this already. If there's some rule against it, or if there's already a thread for it I somehow missed, please tell me.

The current comic as of this writing is xkcd 1651: Robotic Garage. Ah ha ha, classic Black Hat.

The previous webcomic is xkcd 1650: Baby. I need to say "Wow, that's a really cool baby!" in real life now.

Important links to be added later, my post count is too low to post links right now.

[John Campbell]

This isn't the first xkcd thread. Every so often, Munroe posts something that sparks a bunch of discussion (Hoverboard, Time, Click and Drag), and a thread starts up, and then after a while the discussion dies down and the thread falls off the front page never to be seen again.

[Bobblit]

Huh, I wonder why xkcd doesn't manage to have a permanent thread here. I guess it's because it has its own forums?

[ImperatorV]

Huh, I wonder why xkcd doesn't manage to have a permanent thread here. I guess it's because it has its own forums?

People here like to spend a lot of time discussing plot. There's usually not a lot of plot or ambiguity to discuss with xkcd.

[Peelee]

It's not serial. Same reason I figure SMBC has no thread.

[Bobblit]

People here like to spend a lot of time discussing plot. There's usually not a lot of plot or ambiguity to discuss with xkcd.

But they'd have 10x more opportunities to discuss the Celsius vs. Farenheit issue! :smalltongue:


It's not serial. Same reason I figure SMBC has no thread.

Or Dinosaur Comics, I think.

[Eldan]

Yeah. There's really not that much to say about most XKCD. I can only type "Hah, that's funny" or "I don't get this programming joke" so often.

[Rockphed]

In general a comic that falls below a certain critical mass of update speed, ambiguity, and plot movement tends not to be able to power a discussion. I think the cutoff point is about twenty panels a week times about two weeks til certainty divided by six weeks per plot scene.

The other obstacle is when the comic treads on forum-inappropriate material. Considering how often xkcd goes political, it shouldn't be surprising that it's thread dies frequently.

[factotum]

I think the cutoff point is about twenty panels a week times about two weeks til certainty divided by six weeks per plot scene.


XKCD has no plot, so how does that factor in to your equation? :smallwink:

[Rockphed]

XKCD has no plot, so how does that factor in to your equation? :smallwink:

I was literally just throwing numbers and units at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Alternatively, XKCD typically has a strip length of 4 panels. One strip comes out 3 times a week. Plots are normally one strip long (with a couple exceptions). Thus XKCD has 12 panels per week and a plot length of 1/3 weeks. So it has a value of 36A, where A is the ambiguity or "huh, how did that work" factor. I haven't measured A for anything yet.

Either the plot length should be in the numerator or we have a system where only a certain range of values works.

[137beth]

How do you factor in strips like the XKCD 2008 Christmas Special? (https://xkcd.com/521/)
It has 32 panels, but only 11 of them were "produced" due to budget shortages:smalltongue:

[eschmenk]

I don't know how many kilograms Rockphed threw at the wall, but he might be too busy spackling it to worry about factoring anything now.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/literally.png

https://xkcd.com/725/

[Hiro Protagonest]

In general a comic that falls below a certain critical mass of update speed, ambiguity, and plot movement tends not to be able to power a discussion.

Yep, Gunnerkrigg Court updates three times a week (with six or eight panels per page), has a continuity, and Mr. Siddell loves to drop plotpoints and then ignore them until way later (or at least after spending a few pages on a funny conversation), so it'd pretty much the prime example of something that generates a lot of discussion.

[hajo]

There's usually not a lot of plot or ambiguity to discuss with xkcd.
xkcd has a forum (http://forums.xkcd.com), and a wiki (http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page).
BTW, the thread (http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=101043) about time (http://xkcd.com/1190) (2013-03-25) is still running (2444+ pages) :smallamused:

Also, what-if (http://what-if.xkcd.com/). That alone makes xkcd quite unusual among webcomics.

[keybounce]

It's not serial. Same reason I figure SMBC has no thread.

I'm sorry, the comic even says cerial in the name. How can it not be sereal?

And, is it a surprise that in a topic about XKCD, we have gone meta- and are now discussing properties of comics?

[John Campbell]

If anyone wants to try themselves on today's hovertext challenge...

http://www.ci-n.com/~jcampbel/images/blank_united_states_map.png

(Personally, my state outline identification skills are better than his state outline drawing skills.)

[Eldan]

I recognize Texas, Florida and what I'm pretty sure is California. Then I'm done. That said, I still beat 90% of you at Swiss Canton outlines, so there's that.

[Kornaki]

I recognize Texas, Florida and what I'm pretty sure is California. Then I'm done. That said, I still beat 90% of you at Swiss Canton outlines, so there's that.

I assume you can identify at least one, which means surely you are selling yourself low on that number.

[factotum]

(Personally, my state outline identification skills are better than his state outline drawing skills.)

He probably had to cheat a bit when drawing them in order to make it all come out as roughly the right shape.

[Eldan]

I assume you can identify at least one, which means surely you are selling yourself low on that number.

Well, the Germans on the forum might get a few, just by naming Swiss cities. (Pro tip: a lot of Cantons share a name with their largest city, since they were basically city states for the longest time.)

[Flickerdart]

That said, I still beat 90% of you at Swiss Canton outlines, so there's that.
Cheese, Chocolate, Lucerne, and Gold? :smallcool:

[halfeye]

I recognize Texas, Florida and what I'm pretty sure is California. Then I'm done. That said, I still beat 90% of you at Swiss Canton outlines, so there's that.
I saw the comic before seeing the hovertext. How can anyone not do that?

[keybounce]

Ok, how do you convert radians into celsius?

[Lethologica]

Ok, how do you convert radians into celsius?
Circular thermometer.

[Rockphed]

Circular thermometer.

Divide by 5, multiply by 9, and add 32.

[Lethologica]

Divide by 5, multiply by 9, and add 32.
https://media.giphy.com/media/ZQB0BrGtsnUYM/giphy.gif

It's not a proper unit conversion if it doesn't get into the complex plane.

[Eldan]

Well, what does an imaginary degree look lilke?

[NEO|Phyte]

Well, what does an imaginary degree look lilke?

Liberal arts?

[John Campbell]

Ok, how do you convert radians into celsius?

Radians Celsius or radians Fahrenheit?

radC/2π*360 == °C

((radF/2π*360)-32)/1.8 == °C

[Sermil]

So, as a group of GitP forumites, are there are questions we should submit to What If? Are there any blazing, unanswered questions in OOTS that could be answered by physics?

Like, could the Mechane stay up even with a magical source of power for her lifting fans?

[The Glyphstone]

I'd like to see him run the numbers on how much vertical thrust/energy a SHIELD Helicarrier's turbofans put out, but that's not specifically OOTS related.

[Peelee]

I'd like to see him run the numbers on how much vertical thrust/energy a SHIELD Helicarrier's turbofans put out, but that's not specifically OOTS related.

I'd like a breakdown of 1.) how the hell much energy it uses to stay afloat, II.) what the hell is providing that much energy, and c.) why the hell is that not being used to power the globe, or at least the five superpowers that could afford it (if the answer is "too expensive").

I always wonder when technology in superhero stories has the capability to do far more good than the actual heroes.

[John Campbell]

Yeah, it's the basic Reed Richards Is Useless/Cut Lex Luthor A Check problem. Tinker-type capes on both sides of the fence invent technology that could change the world and make them, legitimately, fabulously rich in the process, and instead they just slap together some one-offs, at most enough to outfit a goon squad, and use it to beat each other up.

[factotum]

Aren't we getting toward that comic strip that suggested Superman would better use his power to crank a generator than to fight crime, here? :smallwink:

[keybounce]

Ok, OOTS "Whatif" question:

What if a portal to the water world were opened in the desert?

How much water would flood out?
Would it be noticeable in the water world?
Would there be any desert left here?

Remember, that pair decided that they wanted to claim the land for themselves, because they thought they could irrigate the desert with it, so it's not such a crazy question.

[factotum]

All those questions are impossible to answer, because it would depend where the portal was, among other things. It's also noticeable that there is no exchange of atmosphere through the rifts--the one above Azure City opens out so far from the "inner" world that Blackwing was able to see all of it, so you'd think the atmosphere of World Prime would be getting sucked out through it; the fact it is not suggests you can't easily transport things through the rifts (apart from the Snarl itself, of course, as we saw).

[ericgrau]

I'd like to see him run the numbers on how much vertical thrust/energy a SHIELD Helicarrier's turbofans put out, but that's not specifically OOTS related.

Find its weight and multiply by 1 plus its vertical acceleration in g's. Since I doubt it glues everybody to their seats when rising, probably a little more than its weight. Thrust is in pounds so it's easy to figure out. Energy is more complicated and requires more precise vertical acceleration numbers.

[The Glyphstone]

Find its weight and multiply by 1 plus its vertical acceleration in g's. Since I doubt it glues everybody to their seats when rising, probably a little more than its weight. Thrust is in pounds so it's easy to figure out. Energy is more complicated and requires more precise vertical acceleration numbers.

I'm sure the math isn't complicated, I just don't want to be the one to do it. Besides, Munroe would make it interesting by adding in all his usual side-diversions, like how long you could power a lightbulb off one minute of flying helicarrier or something.

[rooster707]

I'm sure the math isn't complicated, I just don't want to be the one to do it. Besides, Munroe would make it interesting by adding in all his usual side-diversions, like how long you could power a lightbulb off one minute of flying helicarrier or something.

And of course, it would end up destroying the world somehow.

[Peelee]

Aren't we getting toward that comic strip that suggested Superman would better use his power to crank a generator than to fight crime, here? :smallwink:

One of the many reasons SMBC is my favorite webcomic.

[Kato]

Thrust is in pounds so it's easy to figure out.
Pounds? POUNDS?! I'll never get you crazy Anglicans... next you'll be telling me you don't derive your temperature scale from the triple point of H2O...


I'm sure the math isn't complicated, I just don't want to be the one to do it. Besides, Munroe would make it interesting by adding in all his usual side-diversions, like how long you could power a lightbulb off one minute of flying helicarrier or something.
Well, the complicated bit is how efficient the engines might be. I guess he'd go with some currently available jet engine and multiply by ten, or thousand. (The thrust and required fuel. Though, in reality I guess the fuel needs rise quicker)
I guess you could make an article of it but it seems a bit trivial to me.


I myself always wanted a detailed description of the consequences of blowing up the moon...

[halfeye]

I myself always wanted a detailed description of the consequences of blowing up the moon...

With what? with gravity the bits fly apart, with almost anything else, they fall back together again.

[Flickerdart]

Pounds? POUNDS?! I'll never get you crazy Anglicans...
I didn't know the Church of England endorsed the imperial system. :smalltongue:



next you'll be telling me you don't derive your temperature scale from the triple point of H2O...

The triple point of water is 0.01C. What system has it as 0?

[keybounce]

Pounds? POUNDS?! I'll never get you crazy Anglicans... next you'll be telling me you don't derive your temperature scale from the triple point of H2O...

More to the point, what's better for normal humans to use daily than a scale that matches human's daily normal experience?

[Officer Joy]

More to the point, what's better for normal humans to use daily than a scale that matches human's daily normal experience?

That we all use the same one. And as a Celsius user I can honestly say that the scale matches my experience.

Namely 20 is nice pleasant weather, 30 is too hot. 0 cold, and -10 friking cold.

It's what I always use, it's what my normal scale is, there is nothing intricately better or worse about the scales.

[factotum]

Lord, we're not going to have this argument again, are we? Thought this was already done to death in the discussion thread for OotS strip #1024.

[Kato]

With what? with gravity the bits fly apart, with almost anything else, they fall back together again.
Well, I guess the matter of how you blow it up is relevant. Putting aside the question what force could blow up the moon, since this suggests you pump in enough kinetic energy to overcome gravity I'd say gravity shouldn't (easily) fix it.


Lord, we're not going to have this argument again, are we? Thought this was already done to death in the discussion thread for OotS strip #1024.
NEVER! Not until the last Imperial user has seen the light of the metric system! (Okay, okay, stopping now)


In regard to the most recent strip... Gosh, I really ha... dislike people who keep misusing this quote.

[Rockphed]

If we are going to force everyone to use a single temperature system, we should use one where 0 is absolute zero.

[halfeye]

If we are going to force everyone to use a single temperature system, we should use one where 0 is absolute zero.
Rankine will confuse 'em all.

This is wonderful:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_units_of_temperature#Comparison_of_t emperature_scales

I was thinking that Rankine was the one with 80 degrees per hundred Celcius, but that's apparently Réaumur.

[factotum]

Well, I guess the matter of how you blow it up is relevant. Putting aside the question what force could blow up the moon, since this suggests you pump in enough kinetic energy to overcome gravity I'd say gravity shouldn't (easily) fix it.

"Gravitational binding energy". Basically, you need enough energy in the system that *all* the mass of the body is expelled outwards at escape velocity of greater, so it can't "fall back" and clump together. For the Moon this figure is approximately 1.25 x 10^29 joules, which is a lot!

[John Campbell]

That we all use the same one. And as a Celsius user I can honestly say that the scale matches my experience.

Namely 20 is nice pleasant weather, 30 is too hot. 0 cold, and -10 friking cold.

It's what I always use, it's what my normal scale is, there is nothing intricately better or worse about the scales.

I thought this argument was settled. From here on out, we're using radians.

... Now, rad C vs. rad F, round one! Fight!


(I've been considering measurement standards for an AU nation and culture that mostly uses the old English units, as they're largely based on natural measurements, but has no particular reason to conform to any real-world standard for more recent developments like temperature scales or voltage and current and so on. I've been thinking about making their temperature scale have 360 degrees between the boiling and freezing point of water. For no really rational reason, because it really has nothing to do with circles. But you'd be able to convert it to radians C using the degree conversion function on a standard calculator!

I've also been thinking that maybe they guessed right on electrical polarity, and so the direction of current actually matches the direction electrons (carrying a positive charge!) flow instead of "hole flow".)

[Rockphed]

Well, there are exactly 180 degrees between freezing and boiling in Fahrenheit.

[halfeye]

I've been thinking about making their temperature scale have 360 degrees between the boiling and freezing point of water. For no really rational reason, because it really has nothing to do with circles.
360 doesn't really have anything to do with circles either, it's just divisible with integer results by almost every number, I think 7 is the first number that it can't be divided by, 8 and 9 go fine, then probably eleven is the next non integer result.

[Vinyadan]

Allow me to direct you people over here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?479289-Farenhiet-vs-Celcius), where such a topic can be eviscerated at length!

Relating to the last comic: that seems to me more like the description of not thinking things through.

[Rockphed]

360 doesn't really have anything to do with circles either, it's just divisible with integer results by almost every number, I think 7 is the first number that it can't be divided by, 8 and 9 go fine, then probably eleven is the next non integer result.

A star moves about 1 degree between nights. The babylonians decided to divide a circle into parts that were easy to use instead of ones that were exactly true to origin.

[Peelee]

A bit late to the party, but....
NEVER! Not until the last Imperial user has seen the light of the metric system!
http://i.imgur.com/eDuhHTe.jpg

[Rockphed]

Albeit, the geeks at NASA might use si units if they try to send someone back.

[Lethologica]

A bit late to the party, but....<snip>
Of course, to the best of my knowledge, that image works equally well if the second half is captioned "Countries that have lost satellites due to unit conversion screwups."

[Rockphed]

Of course, to the best of my knowledge, that image works equally well if the second half is captioned "Countries that have lost satellites due to unit conversion screwups."

I think you mean "countries that have accidentally launched the first salvo in the war with Mars."

[Peelee]

Of course, to the best of my knowledge, that image works equally well if the second half is captioned "Countries that have lost satellites due to unit conversion screwups."

Eh, you win some, you lose some.

[Knaight]

Liberal arts?
Business.


Pounds? POUNDS?! I'll never get you crazy Anglicans... next you'll be telling me you don't derive your temperature scale from the triple point of H2O...
Celsius was derived from atmospheric water boiling and freezing temperatures; it was retroactively set to the triple point because that's an actual constant. Plus, technically the fundamental unit is Kelvin.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Yeah. There's really not that much to say about most XKCD. I can only type "Hah, that's funny" or "I don't get this programming joke" so often.

And there's not much to speculate on. With the exception of a few strips, like "wait for it", there's no waiting for how this could possibly end well.

[rooster707]

Well, the April Fools' Day comic is up (finally.) It seems to be broken, though.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Well, the April Fools' Day comic is up (finally.) It seems to be broken, though.

At this point, this is the Monday comic, and the April fool's joke was "you ain't getting a comic, only ridiculous status updates on a comic I never intended to post". Which goes well with today's comic, which is all about patience.

Grey Wolf

[HandofShadows]

I don't know about you but I am seeing a "comic" with interactive lights.

[Lethologica]

FWIW when I tab out and leave it alone for a while, it resets the lamp configuration and presumably everything else. Which is annoying, because I don't want to have to monitor it. I did get a deer at one point, though.

[Admiral Squish]

I left it running in another window for a while, and I got a tree, a deer, and a couple scrublike plants before it broke on me.

[rooster707]

I'm getting the lights, but no ground.

[factotum]

Yeah, same here. Have to say I don't think this is a particularly successful experiment by Randall--in other cases where you had to have patience (e.g. the "Time" strip) there was an interesting payoff if you checked back every hour or so, whereas this seems to be entirely random whether it'll even work.

[hajo]

in other cases where you had to have patience (e.g. the "Time" strip) there was an interesting payoff if you checked back every hour or so, whereas this seems to be entirely random
About an hour ago, I started with this (http://xkcd.com/#0fa974c4-faf9-11e5-8001-42010a8e0010) config, and so far I got
a small tree, a rabbit, bird, cat and some scrubs.
Also, I had to delete a desk, complete with chair :smallamused:
Now, another cat;
and a duck, another bird, and the number of cats increased to 4;
and now another rabbit, and a kid's balloon (animated/waving, even). And another balloon.
Now one of the scrubs started waving slowly, like the ballloons.
And a 3rd balloon appeared; and another; now 5 balloons.

It looks like the update-interval is random, between about 2 and 30 minutes.

See also:
* other garden-images (http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1663:_Garden/Images).
* Xkcd-Forum (http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=114415&start=46) - before that post, it didn't work.

My other garden (http://xkcd.com/#b89bf130-fb1a-11e5-8001-42010a8e000c):
under the blue light, several octopussies are growing;
under the yellow light we have trees, scrubs, a rabbit, and bird-bath with a a duck;
and under red light there are desert-features, such as stones and cacti. Also, a mars-rover.

[HandofShadows]

My problem is the page keeps resetting itself right when it starts to gets some interesting stuff growing. :smallfrown:

[hajo]

My problem is the page keeps resetting itself right when it starts to gets some interesting stuff growing. :smallfrown:
Which browser ?
Also, try to copy the URL, and open it in another tab.

[Eldan]

I just tried two different browsers and get endless loading screens in both.

[eschmenk]

I've had one reset, but I have another one still running that I started yesterday. I turned off the computer overnight, but had saved a link to the full URL. I actually started it in a different browser. The second browser took it over and it became view-only on the first.

[Mabn]

patience does seem to be the operative term. I've had it running for 4 hours with 3 lamps and nothing's grown over 2 centimeters on my largish screen...

[John Campbell]

What I got was mostly my computer slowing to a crawl as the web browser consumed about twice as much RAM as I actually have and it started thrashing the hard drive swapping its brains out and it took me three tries to actually hit the Back button because my mouse was so jerky. Has the Wednesday comic gone up yet? I don't want to look at the site again until that thing's gone from the front page.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

What I got was mostly my computer slowing to a crawl as the web browser consumed about twice as much RAM as I actually have and it started thrashing the hard drive swapping its brains out and it took me three tries to actually hit the Back button because my mouse was so jerky. Has the Wednesday comic gone up yet? I don't want to look at the site again until that thing's gone from the front page.

The new comic is up.

GW

[eschmenk]

Sometimes the comics make sense to me and other times... (http://xkcd.com/1673/)

[factotum]

Sometimes the comics make sense to me and other times... (http://xkcd.com/1673/)

Usually I'd suggest heading over to explainxkcd.com, but reading what they've got up for this strip makes it fairly clear they don't understand what it's about either. About the only bit that makes any sense is the 1925 bike looking somewhat like a fractal and Benoit Mandelbrot being born the year before, but even then that's a bit tenuous.

[Lethologica]

I wonder if this was inspired by that guy who designs bicycles based on how people draw bicycles from memory (http://www.wired.com/2016/04/can-draw-bikes-memory-definitely-cant/). It's recent enough.

[Spojaz]

I like 2016's bike is un-steerable, has nowhere to sit, has twice the power rather than gearing, ground protectors, and (the only useful part) an emergency brake. And a bottle of milk for some reason.

I feel like Munroe is subliminally activating some programming in his legions of powerful nerds again.

[Kornaki]

I wonder if this was inspired by that guy who designs bicycles based on how people draw bicycles from memory (http://www.wired.com/2016/04/can-draw-bikes-memory-definitely-cant/). It's recent enough.

This was my thought after reading it.

[gomipile]

XKCD 1689 is pretty funny. It's the first one that made me laugh this much in a while. I enjoyed the Map Age Guide as well, but it didn't make me laugh nearly as hard.

[Kato]

XKCD 1689 is pretty funny.

Fixed that :smalltongue:

Okay, not every single one is hilarious but from the last few weeks only the World WarIII+ one and maybe Patch weren't that funny. (The former just seems a bit random, the latter... I don't know, can't put my finger on it)

[ode]

Such an awesome comic -- as well as that "What if?" section he added awhile back.

[GAAD]

Okay. I would like to play this character. She's awesome.

And yet Gnome Ann is worthy of playing her.

[-D-]

Okay. I would like to play this character. She's awesome.

And yet Gnome Ann is worthy of playing her.
A For Gnome conclusion :smalltongue:

[Eldan]

I don't get it. Random quotes with the character name awkwardly crammed in?

[Grinner]

I don't get it. Random quotes with the character name awkwardly crammed in?

It's...hard to explain. He's transforming the quotes via wordplay, drastically changing their meaning while retaining their basic phonetic structure.

[-D-]

I don't get it. Random quotes with the character name awkwardly crammed in?
Gnome Ann sounds like No man.

[AvatarVecna]

I don't get it. Random quotes with the character name awkwardly crammed in?

"Time waits for no man Gnome Ann!"

That's the joke, over and over: replacing "no man" with "gnome ann", which sounds similar when spoken.

[Eldan]

*Looks up dictionary*

The "G" in "Gnome" is silent in English? You people are weird. Who has silent Gs in their language?

[AvatarVecna]

*Looks up dictionary*

The "G" in "Gnome" is silent in English? You people are weird. Who has silent Gs in their language?

I will not defend the English Language as anything that makes even a lick of sense, but nevertheless that's how the word is pronounced, and that's the pun being made in this comic.

[factotum]

The "G" in "Gnome" is silent in English? You people are weird. Who has silent Gs in their language?

We have silent letters all over the place! "Island"-no S sound, "knife"--no K sound, "subtle"--no B sound, just to give some examples. And let's not get started on words where the exact same combination of letters produces a different sound, such as "enough", "slough", and "borough". This can even happen inside the same word, such as the town Loughborough, which ought really to be spelt Luffburra.

[eschmenk]

*Looks up dictionary*

The "G" in "Gnome" is silent in English? You people are weird. Who has silent Gs in their language?

Apparently the French do too, since that's how the word entered English. I think Latin did the same. BTW, both g and k can be silent when followed by an n. Even stranger, sometimes the g is silent in one word, but pronounced in a closely related word. For example: resign (silent); resignation (pronounced).

[Peelee]

*Looks up dictionary*

The "G" in "Gnome" is silent in English? You people are weird. Who has silent Gs in their language?

Oh, man, you wouldn't believe what letters we can make silent.

I blame the Brits.

[Grinner]

...such as the town Loughborough, which ought really to be spelt Luffburra.

And then there's the interesting case of Leicester, the pronunciation of which I suspect would even stump native English-speakers, mostly Americans.

[thorgrim29]

Is it Lay-ster? Gnome Ann can understand the weirdness of English

[Grinner]

Is it Lay-ster? Gnome Ann can understand the weirdness of English

I think it's "less-ter", but that's really close. Perhaps it's derived from French? (You speak French, right?)

[Lethologica]

I think it's "less-ter", but that's really close. Perhaps it's derived from French? (You speak French, right?)
Less-ter is correct, but EtymOnline thinks it's English most of the way back with some Latin roots, and probably developed its silent, uh, letters because it's a compound word whose verbal contraction outpaced its written contraction.

Gnome Ann doesn't look gnome-sized, though. I call shenanigans.

[tonberrian]

That's because Gnome Ann is an island.

[Knaight]

*Looks up dictionary*

The "G" in "Gnome" is silent in English? You people are weird. Who has silent Gs in their language?

Let me put it this way - see my user name? English pronunciation rules say that it's pronounced the same way as "Nate". There's also a good 30 viable alternate spellings that work out to the same pronunciation, and while the n and long a sounds are particularly susceptible to replacement, there are alternatives for most words. English pronunciation is bizarre.

[Peelee]

LogicAlly
SuBtle*
SCent
HanDkerchief
BellE
HalFpenny*
SiGn
Hour
FrIend
MariJuana
Knife
TaLk
Mnemonic
DamN
ColOnel**
CorPs*
LacQuer*
SaRsaparilla*
ISland
CasTle
GUard
TWo
FauX
RendeZvous*

Couldn't think of a V or Y, and J was a stretch, but for a bonus I did get a dipthong:
YaCHt

*Multiple silent letters
**The OL are also silent, and replaced by an ER sound.

English!

[Eldan]

I know that English is totally weird. I mean, I speak it. I was familiar with all the other examples on the page here. I just had no idea the G in Gnome was silent.

This is Psycho all over again.

[factotum]

LogicAlly
HalFpenny*


Those examples only count if your specific accent changes the way the word is pronounced--I would certainly pronounce the highlighted letters in both words. In the case of "halfpenny" I assume you mean the usual contraction "ha'penny", but that's just an abbreviation, not the actual word.

[Eldan]

Couldn't think of a V or Y, and J was a stretch, but for a bonus I did get a dipthong:
YaCHt

*Multiple silent letters
**The OL are also silent, and replaced by an ER sound.

English!

Hmm. Depending a bit on accent, but... Mayor or Prayer, for silent Y? Can't think of a V, either.

[Rodin]

And then there's the interesting case of Leicester, the pronunciation of which I suspect would even stump native English-speakers, mostly Americans.

One of my enduring sources of amusement for the past few months has been American news-readers stumbling over the pronunciation as they try to report on Leicester's Premier League win.


Hmm. Depending a bit on accent, but... Mayor or Prayer, for silent Y? Can't think of a V, either.

Mayor is regional to be sure - I pronounce it May-err, but I've definitely heard it pronounced Mare.

Prayer is a good one though, since that gets pronounced Prare most of the time.

[gbs5009]

Yeah, the J is a stretch. It's really a jota, which is kind of an h sound, as Jorge, or Javier. I guess since Americans frequently say mara-wanna, not mara-hwana, it's still silent?

[gbs5009]

And of course, now that I look at some articles of the etymology here, it would appear that the jota was added AFTER the word entered English. It would appear that it was adde for the express purpose of ignoring it, but it got pushed back into Mexican Spanish through cultural osmosis.

Language is weird.

[Peelee]

Those examples only count if your specific accent changes the way the word is pronounced--I would certainly pronounce the highlighted letters in both words.

I dunno how the Brits pronounce it, but horrible Americans let the second A be silent in "caramel." Basically the same, though. Heh. Basically

[Yuki Akuma]

I dunno how the Brits pronounce it, but horrible Americans let the second A be silent in "caramel." Basically the same, though. Heh. Basically

We pronounce all of the vowels in caramel.

[Peelee]

We pronounce all of the vowels in caramel.

The "horrible" was a subset in addition to a descriptor

.....also, i am guessing you're American and not British? Didn't even notice that until just now.

[Kato]

Ah, it's good to be German... where pronunciation and writing have clear rules... as long as it's not a word we stole from others. Which is getting more and more, especially from English. And then we start butchering the pronunciation until it follows our rules. Well, most of the time... Good thing we exchanged all our handies (mobile phones) for smart phones. Too bad we tried to get rid of the "ph=f" a few years ago and now it's coming back. Oh well...

[The Glyphstone]

German, the language of ten thousand compound words?

[Eldan]

German, the language of ten thousand compound words?

Sure, so? They are still straightforward to pronounce and the meaning is in 90%+ of cases perfectly obvious from the words it's made up from. What's a tree that grows apples? An apple tree. In German, we just leave out the space.

[Yuki Akuma]

The "horrible" was a subset in addition to a descriptor

.....also, i am guessing you're American and not British? Didn't even notice that until just now.

No. I'm from Angle-land.

[The Glyphstone]

Sure, so? They are still straightforward to pronounce and the meaning is in 90%+ of cases perfectly obvious from the words it's made up from. What's a tree that grows apples? An apple tree. In German, we just leave out the space.

Just saying you don't need to steal words from anyone to begin with, all the building blocks already exist to construct any word you could possibly need.

[Peelee]

No. I'm from Angle-land.

I'd somehow always read that as "angel," not "angle." Sorry for being obtuse. I was not very acute, and I'll right it immediately.

[Eldan]

Just saying you don't need to steal words from anyone to begin with, all the building blocks already exist to construct any word you could possibly need.

True, but English is hip and cool, so it is used.

[The Glyphstone]

True, but English is hip and cool, so it is used.

But...like, a third of English is stolen from German to begin with!

[Peelee]

But...like, a third of English is stolen from German to begin with!

Well, i would certainly hope so, since English is a Germanic language.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I guess Everieb Oddy thought the joke was confusing.

[Kato]

But...like, a third of English is stolen from German to begin with!

Well, kind of. You still a lot of similar words but then many of those are older, I think.
But while sure, we could come up with our own new words it is much easier to borrow from English, especially since it makes learning English easier if you already know terms for most modern stuff.

[Complex Dragon]

Oh, man, you wouldn't believe what letters we can make silent.

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of consonants cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."

[-D-]

But...like, a third of English is stolen from German to begin with!
So? I'm pretty sure German just stole its words, from an even older language like Latin or some other language.

It's not like they are getting thinned out due to borrowing.

[Grinner]

I wonder what would show up on a canine genetic test if you sent in a human sample...?


So? I'm pretty sure German just stole its words, from an even older language like Latin or some other language.

I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't bet on that. German and Latin are of distinct families. It's possible that they share a common ancestor, but they certainly don't appear to bear much similarity.

I think English is a member of the Germanic languages, but it seems like it uses only Germanic grammar and takes its vocabulary mostly from Latin.

[factotum]

I think English is a member of the Germanic languages, but it seems like it uses only Germanic grammar and takes its vocabulary mostly from Latin.

It takes bits from everywhere. The basis is the Celtic dialects spoken by the British tribes during the Roman occupation, with a bunch of Latin added on top. Then we have the influx of proto-German from the Anglo-Saxon invasion of the 5th century, Danish influences from the Vikings in the 9th, and mediaeval French from the Norman invasion in 1066, before we even start talking about the various words borrowed from other languages later on. The Norman Invasion, in particular, is why English is one of the few languages in the world where the word for the meat of an animal is different from the name of the animal itself--the peasants keeping the animals used their old names for them, whereas their Norman overlords would be eating the meat and calling it by their names.

[Kato]

I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't bet on that. German and Latin are of distinct families. It's possible that they share a common ancestor, but they certainly don't appear to bear much similarity.

I think English is a member of the Germanic languages, but it seems like it uses only Germanic grammar and takes its vocabulary mostly from Latin.

Well... kind of. German and latin share many similarities, e.g. we do have four of its five cases still. We decline and conjugate following similar-ish rules. We do have quite a few words taken from Latin but we also have many others, either taken from elswhere or we... I guess came up with ourselves.

From my very limited knowledge I think English is one of the languages that really is prominently made by mixing many others. (Obviously, most modern languages especially major European ones are influenced by others because of years of contact and interaction. But in English it's more obvious) Many, many, many words can be easily derived from French or Latin or German (or others) words with similar meaning, though at times with German and French it could be the other way round which came first... better ask a linguist about that.

[Eldan]

I wonder what would show up on a canine genetic test if you sent in a human sample...?

I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't bet on that. German and Latin are of distinct families. It's possible that they share a common ancestor, but they certainly don't appear to bear much similarity.

I think English is a member of the Germanic languages, but it seems like it uses only Germanic grammar and takes its vocabulary mostly from Latin.

Actually, you got a lot of words from German. Like, let's take your post, bold for words I'm sure are Germanic:


I wonder what would show up on a canine genetic test if you sent in a human sample...?

I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't bet on that. German and Latin are of distinct families. It's possible that they share a common ancestor, but they certainly don't appear to bear much similarity.

I think English is a member of the Germanic languages, but it seems like it uses only Germanic grammar and takes its vocabulary mostly from Latin.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I think English is one of the languages that really is prominently made by mixing many others. (Obviously, most modern languages especially major European ones are influenced by others because of years of contact and interaction. But in English it's more obvious)

Sort of, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it is special in that way. In general, the more a country has been invaded or has invaded other cultures, the more likely it is to have a variety of sources. For example, Spain is also is like that, since it has been invaded by the romans (caballo - horse), the germans (yelmo - helmet), the muslims (alfombra - carpet), the french (who reintroduced latin-based romance languages, but I don't have a good example handy), then went around the world invading others (chocolate).

India, too, has a similarly exciting history, but so far they have kept most of their languages separate: most of my Indian friends can speak their local language (but not read it or write it), one of the "dominant" languages (usually Hindi or Telugu), can read Sanskrit "a bit" and finally English. I suppose it technically doesn't count as mix because they still think of them as separate, but that's splitting hairs - they actually mix them all together as needed. I expect than in a couple hundred year's time, that will all merge into a unified "Indian" language.

Grey Wolf

[SlyGuyMcFly]

But...like, a third of English is stolen from German to begin with!

And now they're stealing it back!




I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't bet on that. German and Latin are of distinct families. It's possible that they share a common ancestor, but they certainly don't appear to bear much similarity.

PIE. Proto-Indo-European. Common ancestor of (almost) all European Languages among many others.


I think English is a member of the Germanic languages, but it seems like it uses only Germanic grammar and takes its vocabulary mostly from Latin.

As others have said, English is very much a mongrel language. It's considered Germanic by experts on account of it's Germanic grammar but it's lexicon is something like two-thirds latin-based, either directly or via the Norman/French connection. Sauce. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_influence_in_English)



Actually, you got a lot of words from German. Like, let's take your post, bold for words I'm sure are Germanic:

Nitpick: Use comes from Latin. Vulgar Latin usare turned into usar in Spanish and user in French. I guess the Brits lopped off the r on user because nobody was... :smallcool: using it.



Sort of, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it is special in that way. In general, the more a country has been invaded or has invaded other cultures, the more likely it is to have a variety of sources. For example, Spain is also is like that, since it has been invaded by the romans (caballo - horse), the germans (yelmo - helmet), the muslims (alfombra - carpet), the french (who reintroduced latin-based romance languages, but I don't have a good example handy), then went around the world invading others (chocolate).

(popurrí - potpourri) for the French example. English is still an odd case in just how much it has taken from other languages, though. Spanish, despite the Iberian Peninsula's colourful history, is roughly 70% Latin and owes only 5% or so to each it's Goth conquerors and it's Muslim ones. Part of that Latin came via Portuguese, Italian and French, but it's still mostly it's own sort of mutant Latin

[halfeye]

I'm remembering, but not finding, someone in this forum, probably but not necessarily in this thread, saying that the german for saucer was under-cup (or rather the german equivalents), so does that mean that in German UFOs are flying under-cups ? Because that would be hilarious, and it would be pretty funny if flying saucer in german meant UFO, but not flying under-cup. No offence intended to the german language, just a funny thing that maybe arose in translation.

[Eldan]

Absolutely, yes. It is undercup. The term "Fliegende Untertasse", flying Under-cup does exist, but it has pretty much phased out in favour of UFO. Which just so happens to also mean Unbekanntes Flug-Objekt, so it works for German, too.

[BlueHerring]

India, too, has a similarly exciting history, but so far they have kept most of their languages separate: most of my Indian friends can speak their local language (but not read it or write it), one of the "dominant" languages (usually Hindi or Telugu), can read Sanskrit "a bit" and finally English. I suppose it technically doesn't count as mix because they still think of them as separate, but that's splitting hairs - they actually mix them all together as needed. I expect than in a couple hundred year's time, that will all merge into a unified "Indian" language.

Grey WolfThat's kind of unlikely to happen. North and South Indian languages actually have two completely separate roots. The South Indian languages are Dravidian in origin, while the North Indian ones are Indo-European. Given that the languages have stayed largely separate for quite a long time, I doubt that they'd combine anytime soon. What's more likely to happen is that the smaller languages will die off over time, and more people will adopt using the same language (probably Hindi).

Interestingly enough, the South Indian languages are close enough to each other that, with proper fluency in one, you could understand others*. It's possible for a merged language to happen with them, but it definitely hasn't happened yet.

*Mostly through a combination of similar words and context clues.

[gomipile]

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of consonants cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."

<s> It's okay, consonants are a conserved quantity in spoken English. For example, the Rs that disappear when a Bostonian "Pahks his cah" reappear when a Texan "worrrshes" hers. </s>

[gomipile]

Apparently, Gnome Ann's Sky is running into legal trouble over a potentially patented use of an interesting algorithm for procedural terrain generation.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/07/no-mans-sky-faces-potential-patent-fight-over-use-of-superformula/

[Peelee]

<s> It's okay, consonants are a conserved quantity in spoken English. For example, the Rs that disappear when a Bostonian "Pahks his cah" reappear when a Texan "worrrshes" hers. </s>

Also, glottal stops (http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2604) are fun.

WHAT NOW, XKCD GUY?