Cost of potions and scrolls

[Ced]

Hello,

Let me start by giving some feedback about my question. I'm currently writing a software tool to be used by a DM in order to manage player equipment (it is pretty close to being finished). So, the idea is that items can be added to a player equipment (e.g. like weapons, potions, scrolls... everything which is available in the core books at this stage). Potions, scrolls and wands are handled in special way, since all those items are handled in exactly the same way: the reference a spell and based on that spell and their price is derived from the spell level, caster level and possible components price. The spell level is actually not stored in the spell itself, but derived from spell list of caster classes (so, for instance mage armor is included in the first level of the sorcerer/wizard spell list, so its spell level is 1). If the spell is used in by multiple spell lists, I take the lowest level available.

This all works fine, except that there are some cases were the spell level derived by my software is not the same as the one used in the potion/scroll list, which makes the price different from what it is in the book. For instance, the Resist Energy and Protection from Energy spells are Cleric level 2 and level 3 respectively, but also Ranger level 1 and level 2 respectively. Since the ranger levels are lower, I take those levels instead of the cleric ones, which ends up in different prices for the corresponding potions. A similar problem appears for the flame strike scroll, which is a druid level 4 spell but a cleric level 5 spell (and the scroll is listed as a divine level 5 spell in the book).

So, a possible solution to this problem would be to indicate "preferred" caster classes: if a spell is included in the spell list of one of these, the spell level will be taken from there even if there are other classes with a lower spell level (these classes would be wizard and cleric). However, I'm wondering if this is the approach is also applicable to scrolls: should a druid be able to buy a scroll of flame strike with a spell level of 4 instead of 5 (so, written by a druid instead of a cleric)? Would you allow something like that or simply stick to what is available in the core books?

Thanks.

[sleepyphoenixx]

You have to keep in mind who is most likely to produce scrolls/potions for sale.
In most campaigns that's likely to be wizards and clerics, with druids/rangers/paladins being the exception. They don't usually take those feats.

That's a matter of world-building.
If divine crafting is done by Archivists there's no reason not to offer divine spells at the lowest level possible.
If your PCs are shopping in a druid camp it makes sense to offer scrolls/wands/potions at druid-crafter prices - and limited to items druids can actually produce.
If your PCs are shopping in a temple of Mystra (or another deity that offers the spell domain) you can probably get a bunch of arcane spells at lower levels thanks to (Greater) Anyspell.
In a big city (especially in Eberron) there might be Artificers who offer scrolls at the lowest levels possible for UMD users (since artificer scrolls are neither arcane nor divine).

But those are special circumstances. Unless those are present you have to take what's on offer, and in most worlds that will be items produced by wizards and clerics, so they'll use those levels and prices.

[Ced]

Thanks for the feedback.
Ok I see that it would be useful to allow the user of the software to indicate the class that crafted the item, which will allow to deduce the spell level (at this stage, the software already allows the user to specify a different caster level than the lowest one, since this is something which can be done pretty often).
However, I think this is only applicable to some very specific campaigns (the majority of campaigns will probably stick to the default cleric/wizard items) so, by default I will use the solution that I suggested earlier, but still allow to user to specify via an option that he wants to be able to select a caster class which crafted the item (and having by default cleric/wizard selected).

[Darrin]

The problem with using Ranger or Paladin spells is the minimum caster level to cast those spells is calculated differently. Up through levels 1-3, they don't have a caster level. Once they reach level 4+, their caster level is one half their class level. So a 1st level potion created by a cleric costs 1 x 1 x 50 = 50 GP, but when the same potion is created by a Ranger its 1 x 2 x 50 = 100 GP.

There are also a couple mistakes in the DMG treasure tables because some spell descriptions were changed in the transition from 3.0 to 3.5 and the editors didn't catch it.

Then again, the whole "minimum caster level" was never clearly explained in the rules.

[Âmesang]

Though a paladin gets to make scrolls/wands of lesser restoration cheaper than a cleric or druid would.

So… there's that…

[sleepyphoenixx]

The problem with using Ranger or Paladin spells is the minimum caster level to cast those spells is calculated differently. Up through levels 1-3, they don't have a caster level. Once they reach level 4+, their caster level is one half their class level. So a 1st level potion created by a cleric costs 1 x 1 x 50 = 50 GP, but when the same potion is created by a Ranger its 1 x 2 x 50 = 100 GP.

Then again, the whole "minimum caster level" was never clearly explained in the rules.

That only applies if your crafter isn't an Archivist, Artificer or Chameleon. The latter probably won't show up as an NPC merchant all that often, but the other two can reasonably be expected to if they exist in your setting.
Any archivist using those spells to offer essential stuff like Lesser Restoration wands at a lower price has a pretty big advantage over his cleric competition after all, and artificers are all about crafting stuff and should find a good customer base with rogues and other UMD users.

And the "minimum caster level" was explained clearly enough imo, especially with the example that the PHB provides (that is omitted in the SRD).

[ericgrau]

Hello,

Let me start by giving some feedback about my question. I'm currently writing a software tool to be used by a DM in order to manage player equipment (it is pretty close to being finished). So, the idea is that items can be added to a player equipment (e.g. like weapons, potions, scrolls... everything which is available in the core books at this stage). Potions, scrolls and wands are handled in special way, since all those items are handled in exactly the same way: the reference a spell and based on that spell and their price is derived from the spell level, caster level and possible components price. The spell level is actually not stored in the spell itself, but derived from spell list of caster classes (so, for instance mage armor is included in the first level of the sorcerer/wizard spell list, so its spell level is 1). If the spell is used in by multiple spell lists, I take the lowest level available.

This all works fine, except that there are some cases were the spell level derived by my software is not the same as the one used in the potion/scroll list, which makes the price different from what it is in the book. For instance, the Resist Energy and Protection from Energy spells are Cleric level 2 and level 3 respectively, but also Ranger level 1 and level 2 respectively. Since the ranger levels are lower, I take those levels instead of the cleric ones, which ends up in different prices for the corresponding potions. A similar problem appears for the flame strike scroll, which is a druid level 4 spell but a cleric level 5 spell (and the scroll is listed as a divine level 5 spell in the book).

So, a possible solution to this problem would be to indicate "preferred" caster classes: if a spell is included in the spell list of one of these, the spell level will be taken from there even if there are other classes with a lower spell level (these classes would be wizard and cleric). However, I'm wondering if this is the approach is also applicable to scrolls: should a druid be able to buy a scroll of flame strike with a spell level of 4 instead of 5 (so, written by a druid instead of a cleric)? Would you allow something like that or simply stick to what is available in the core books?

Thanks.

Scrolls likewise defaults to the more common caster classes: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm
See resist energy for example.

The default is that a wizard or cleric made it: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#otherConsiderations
Scrolls are divide into arcane and divine so say a wizard made the arcane scroll when possible and a cleric made the divine scroll when possible. I checked a spell not on either list on the scroll list and it seems that druid > ranger is also preferred. IMO for arcane scrolls use wizard > bard and for divine use cleric > druid > paladin > ranger.

The reason is simple. How often will you find such a person with the scribe scroll feat and near civilization? For the wizard quite often. For the ranger it's quite rare. Probably also why a scroll has a 70% chance of being arcane; wizards get scribe scroll by default. For WBL purposes tell the player "No, you were only able to find the much more common one not the cheaper one." I mean that's what it's worth the vast majority of the time so that's what it's worth. For random generator purposes you might include a small chance that a found scroll was scribed by a "non-standard" class. If you want to be a super technical stickler on WBL then you could make a scroll's price 95% of the standard caster price plus 5% of the non-standard caster price (or some such percentages) to represent the average.