Sunburst vs Darkness

[BlackDog918]

Okay, so I've been arguing about this for hours and I'm tired of it. Sunburst vs a darkness spell heightened to 9th level. The darkness spell is on a vampire, if the vampire is caught in the area of sunburst and fails his save, is he destroyed?
My logic says that since sunburst does not actually increase light level at all, darkness does nothing. The other side argues that darkness just cancels out any spell with the light descriptor in the area of darkness. Help me out here.

[The_Snark]

The SRD description of Sunburst (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sunburst.htm) is pretty explicit on this point:


Sunburst dispels any darkness spells of lower than 9th level within its area.

Darkness ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm) is a 2nd-level spell with the [Darkness] descriptor, so it's dispelled. Now, the Darkness spell has a similar clause...


Darkness counters or dispels any light spell of equal or lower spell level.

... but Sunburst is too high-level to be affected. If you cast a level 0-1 light spell, it would work as the other side describes; if you cast a level 2 light spell the two would most likely cancel out (most light/darkness spells have clauses like this).

[BlackDog918]

Here's the trick, the darkness spell in question is heightened to 9th level. However, since sunburst explicitly does not increase the light level in the area, simply doing damage and blinding, as well as destroying light vulnerable creatures, I argue that darkness does nothing at all for the vampire within it if the vampire is caught in a sunburst.

[RoyVG]

Okay, so I've been arguing about this for hours and I'm tired of it. Sunburst vs a darkness spell heightened to 9th level. The darkness spell is on a vampire, if the vampire is caught in the area of sunburst and fails his save, is he destroyed?
My logic says that since sunburst does not actually increase light level at all, darkness does nothing. The other side argues that darkness just cancels out any spell with the light descriptor in the area of darkness. Help me out here.

The Darkness spell mentions that it counters or dispels any spell with the [light] descriptor of equal or lower level. In this case it heightened to 9th level, so it can dispel any [light] spell.
Sunburst, an 8th level spell, dispels any [darkness] spell that is lower than 9th level.

If Darkness is heightened to 9th level, and Sunburst which specifically mentions that it affects lower than 9th level, it seems pretty clear to me. The 9th level Darkness will dispel the Sunburst immediately.

EDIT: To elaborate, when the 9th level Darkness is cast before the Sunburst, it will simply counter the Sunburst as long as it is active. Light is still being produced, even of only a for a short moment, but this is immediately countered by the Darkness. If the Sunburst would be cast first, the Vampire could make a Spellcraft check to see this happening and counterspell/dispel it with his Heightened Darkness. The result is that both spell will fail in that case.

[BlackDog918]

But what if the darkness is already in effect? Countering or dispelling can only be done after the fact, no?

[RoyVG]

This spell causes an object to radiate shadowy illumination out to a 20-foot radius. All creatures in the area gain concealment (20% miss chance). Even creatures that can normally see in such conditions (such as with darkvision or low-light vision) have the miss chance in an area shrouded in magical darkness.

Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level light spells are not affected by darkness.

If darkness is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, the spell’s effect is blocked until the covering is removed.

Darkness counters or dispels any light spell of equal or lower spell level.

There would be one of two things happening, depending on interpertation. The Darkness is in effect and the Sunburst simply whiffs because the Darkness is too strong, or it dispels the Darkness, removing it. However, Sunburst specifically mentions that it cannot affect [darkness] spells of 9 level, so by RAW the first interpertation seems the most logical. Whehter or not Sunburst is an instantaneous effect or not doesn't matter, it gets countered by the Darkness.

[iceman10058]

I do not think that the Sunburst will be countered, but I do think that the Vampire is destroyed. the spell clearly states it destroys or damages any creature that is light sensitive. Darkness does nothing to prevent that.

[The_Snark]

Here's the trick, the darkness spell in question is heightened to 9th level. However, since sunburst explicitly does not increase the light level in the area, simply doing damage and blinding, as well as destroying light vulnerable creatures, I argue that darkness does nothing at all for the vampire within it if the vampire is caught in a sunburst.

Ah, I'd somehow missed that. In that case, the Darkness spell counters Sunburst and remains in effect. Doesn't matter whether Sunburst increases the ambient light level or not, it has the [Light] descriptor.


But what if the darkness is already in effect? Countering or dispelling can only be done after the fact, no?

They're two different terms. Countering (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#counterspells) negates a spell as it is cast; dispelling negates a spell that is already in effect.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Dispelling requires you to "target" the light spell with a casting of Darkness, as if it were a Dispel Magic that only works on light spells (but doesn't require a check).
Countering works like counterspelling - you have to ready an action to do so.
Neither of these apply because the Darkness spell is already in effect.

What you're looking for is this passage:

Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level light spells are not affected by darkness.
Sunburst is lower level than heightened Darkness, so it's incapable of brightening the area affected by Darkness. Since its effects depend on light nothing in the area is affected.

The way around that protection is pretty simple though: Daylight will suffice.

Daylight brought into an area of magical darkness (or vice versa) is temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist in the overlapping areas of effect.
Note that this isn't affected by spell level at all. A simple casting of Daylight will suppress any magial darkness in its area. Then you can Sunburst that vampire.