Self-Insert Campaign Guidelines - D&D 5e

[DiceDiceBaby]

EDIT - We're still discussing revisions on page 4 onwards (it's a work in progress). This is the most recent version of the rules we made, as of March 8, 2016.

Many thanks to all the Giants so far who gave such amazing feedback! :smallwink:

Self-Insert Campaign Rules and Guidelines

I. Scenario

You are with a group of Players who are going to begin a Campaign in D&D with a mysterious new handbook that the Dungeon Master (DM) has acquired. Upon opening the book, a strange energy manages to somehow leap out of the pages and render everyone in your playgroup unconscious. You awaken in a bed, and you feel strange, stronger, even, yet somehow not yourself, and you notice some of your personal items, even those that you didn’t bring to the playgroup, are huddled around you. You find you are in what seems to be a tavern, and each member of the campaign has their own bed and their items next to them. But the Dungeon Master is missing… and all you know is that you need to find your DM, if you ever want to return home!

II. Objectives

Your playgroup is to form a party using characters who are more or less based on your actual selves in real life, with certain limitations regarding character creation. Your objective is to find the DM in this world, whom each of you is magically drawn to, and whom each of you knows is being possessed by an evil force. Your DM narrates the story as usual, but the dark forces that are trying to control your DM are also going to make it difficult for you to progress, so your DM is torn between trying to stop you and trying to help you save him. You must find your DM and help him overcome the dark force controlling his powers before the corruption consumes him for good!

III. Character Creation

The world you are in is a medieval, low-fantasy setting; magic exists, but it is accessible only to the learned few and it is not explicit, and the technology level is not particularly advanced. Thus, anyone who is attuned to magic or science can learn them. By virtue of this campaign, assume that your entire playgroup is acutely attuned to magic. Also, the qualities you possess in real life are now highlighted and heightened in this world, in order to give you a fair chance at succeeding in the Campaign, but some qualities you were weak at may have been reduced, others you were good at became better, and others you were great at may have been increased.

Because the DM is highly encouraged to make this Campaign as real as possible, it is in the best interest of the playgroup to select their qualities based on their actual abilities, and to choose people to represent the classes and backgrounds in their playgroup that would best highlight their actual professions and backgrounds and the needs of the party. Your survival in this fantasy world depends on it!

A. Contesting Qualities

Being a Self-Insert Campaign means that each person in the playgroup must assume good faith in both selecting the qualities they believe they possess, and also respect other member’s estimates of their own abilities. However, to prevent inaccuracies in character creation, players are free to discuss and debate amongst themselves (or on occasion feel the need to prove) if they possess certain qualities in real life or not. The DM has to referee this in the interest of fairness to all concerned. Contesting others is to be treated as a mature and serious matter; not properly finding the right or best people qualified to do certain tasks or roles can make or break the Campaign depending on your actual abilities and cooperation as a team.

B. Race

By default, all of the player characters in this campaign are non-variant humans with the same physical appearance, age, height, weight (size is medium, speed is 30 ft.) and other features of their respective actual selves in real life, plus the following qualities:

Ability Score Increase. Your ability scores each increase by 1. This represents your entry in the fantasy world, which increases your personal characteristics: good becomes great and mediocre becomes above average, using other members of the playgroup as points for comparison in selecting your Ability Scores later on.

Alignment. In D&D, alignment is a set of 9 different personality brackets which try to simplify what philosophers and social scientists in real life spend years of devotion and study to explain. For simplicity’s sake, you are to pick an alignment you are most comfortable portraying, or barring that, one which aligns to your character. The same applies for Bonds, Flaws and Ideals, but depending on how flexible your DM is, you can opt to treat these things as fluid and complex as they are in reality.

Languages. For this campaign, you can all speak, read and write in Common, which represents the ability to speak, read and write in English, as this primer is also written in English. For each additional language that you are fluent in, because you learned them while growing up or devoted years of study towards it during your education or as a hobby, you may choose one additional language in the fantasy world that you are now magically able to speak. For example, if a member of your playgroup grew up bilingual, speaking English and Spanish, they can speak Common and one fantasy language of their choice for this campaign.

Like all other qualities established during character creation, the ability to speak multiple languages or any other qualities tied to the person can be contested.

Here is an example of contesting another member of the playgroup:

Player A claims to have been raised bilingual and learned a third foreign language during his high school and undergraduate studies. Player B wishes for proof that Player A can, indeed, speak, read, and/or write in these languages. Player A then can choose how he wishes to prove himself; he may present certificates, translate texts, show pictures of visits to countries that use the languages as official languages, speak or recite words in that language, and so on. If the majority of the playgroup are convinced, Player A may have these qualities, if not, Player A will have to settle with what the DM rules.

C. Ability Scores

For this campaign, the chaotic magic that transported you into this land has also decreed that you have the following standard set of scores, rather than randomly predetermining them, in line with the theme that transporting you to the fantasy world has magically enhanced your real life capabilities: 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, and 11, higher than the one provided in the Player Handbook or in conventional selected or quick builds. You may distribute these as you wish, preferably in line with your real life characteristics, with no further justification other than some of your actual abilities have become better in this world, while others have become worse. You are free to contest each other’s Ability Scores, but this isn’t necessary for the most part.

D. Class

For this campaign, the selection of a class should be a very strict matter. Unlike ability scores and backgrounds, which can be more lenient and flexible, your class choice necessarily needs to overlap with what you are actually capable of doing in real life. As much as possible, each player is to pick an exclusive class for a heterogeneous party. Other members of the playgroup are free to contest your choice of class if more than one person wishes to play as a particular class. Here is another example of contesting another member of the playgroup:

Player A is a hobby poet who plays the piano and wishes to play as a Bard. Player B contests Player A’s claim to the class and wants to play as a Bard as well; he studied at a music school, plays the cello and the violin, and performs regularly at the local open microphone sessions at the nearby pub. Player C, however, is a professional performer with weekly gigs in a band, plays a wide variety of musical instruments, composes songs, and can sing on key. If the majority of the playgroup is convinced with Player C’s argument, Player C should play as a Bard, and Players A and B should choose to play as other classes.

Another Example:

Player A graduated with honors at the undergraduate level at the local university, and wishes to play as a Wizard. Player B contests Player A’s claim to the class and wants to play as a Wizard as well; she finished her master studies and is currently lecturing part time at the university that Player A attended. Player C, however, has a PhD. and is an associate professor at a different university, with multiple publications under her name. If the majority of the playgroup is convinced with Player C’s argument, Player C should play as a Wizard, and Players A and B should choose to play as other classes.

If, after selecting classes, two people select the same class, whichever of the two has the most merit or the most convincing argument is allowed to play as that class, the logic of the matter being that you want as diverse a party as possible, with the person most suited for a particular role to actually play that role, since your survival in the fantasy world depends on this.

Since different playgroups have different people, Player A might be a Fighter in one such Campaign but a Wizard in another, depending on her or his personal merits relative to the other members of the group, allowing for more diversity.

If two Players vying for the same class are equally convincing, an exception can be made that both of them can play the class, under the warning that this may jeopardize the party’s diversity, which may be necessary to complete the Campaign. If your party has more than twelve Players, and each of the classes has already been selected, and duplications are inevitable, however, this should be fine.

In the event that a Player is unable to pick a class, or all other classes she or he would like to play are taken, that Player has to choose Sorcerer, the least likely class pick to be justified in real life, with the chaotic magic that brought you all to the fantasy world giving her or him innate magical power for this Campaign.

E. Background

For this campaign, the selection of backgrounds is considerably more lenient than the selection of classes. More than one Player may select the same background for their character, and while contesting players for this is possible, it shouldn’t be taken as seriously as with the selection classes, as duplications can occur. Here is another example of contesting another member of the playgroup:

Player A wishes to have the Soldier background, as he served for a year taking required military service, knows basic survival, combat, and first aid skills, and knows how to operate, fire, and clean a rifle. Player B wishes to have the same background, as he served for two years taking required military service, and has a higher equivalent rank than Player A. Player C studied in a military academy and not only has completed two years of military service, but decided to become a professional soldier at the local barracks. If the three Players were contesting each other for the Fighter class, the party might select Player C to become their Fighter, as he would be their best bet for survival in the fantasy world (and perhaps assign Player B as a Rogue or Player C as a Paladin depending on their other real life qualities). However, each of the three players can legitimately pick the Soldier background regardless of class, and most likely no one in the playgroup would contest that for the three of them.
Note that, using this example, in another playgroup where no one else has competing real life qualities, Player A would most likely be uncontested for his class as a Fighter and background as a Soldier. Again, it is advised that the Players should concede certain backgrounds and classes to other Players who may be better suited for the tasks that the class or background may entail.

F. Equipment, Armor, Weapons, Tools and Gold

After each Player selects their class and background, they are to make a list of ten (or less) real-life items that they will bring along with them to the fantasy world. These ten items will be your equipment and tools for the beginning of the Campaign, and replace the ones you would normally get from your class and background. The total weight of these items should not exceed 90 lbs. (ca. 40 kilograms), and does not include food, vehicles, or other such forbidden items that may be deemed forbidden by the DM. Because of the weight restriction, each of these items should be items that can be individually carried or held with one hand, or worn on one part of the body in case of armor. The items have to be justified as reasonably obtainable within a day of preparation.

For ammunition, writing materials, or other small, loose objects necessary for certain classes, such as in the case of ranged weapons, or for Players who need to write things down or create art, one fully loaded cartridge, magazine, quiver, pencil case or art set counts as one item for the sake of simplicity, like the usual packs in D&D.

Players can bring clothes, and each full body set of clothing counts as one item. Clothing considered as armor count as one item each. Players cannot bring food, vehicles (such as skateboards), nor mobility clothing (such as rollerblades or skates). Players also cannot bring any items directly related to D&D (rulebooks, novels, etc.), which are all banned by principle.

Players all start with 30 GP in your pockets regardless of class and background (you don’t get any items from your class or background), but your pockets have otherwise been emptied, so any small items in your pockets or on your person are not with you unless you included them in the list of ten items separately.

The items you are allowed to bring must fall into one or more of the following categories:

Items you actually possess. You can bring any items that you actually possess in real life. For classes with familiars or beast companions, you may bring your pet as an item, but this is not advised. Note that just because you have any particular item doesn’t mean you have the proficiency to use it. Because the world is set in a medieval low-fantasy setting, bringing electronic gadgets is not advised and bringing firearms without the means or knowledge of how to create more ammunition may be problematic when you run out of later on, though, depending on the DM and the abilities of your party members, you might find a solution to these problems using actual science, engineering, and metallurgy.

Items you routinely use or carry. Certain professions in real life require equipment that stays in the workplace and otherwise cannot or should not be brought home. These are items you could justify as those you routinely carry. Whether these are items in your purse all the time, or items you only use in your office, these items are things you interact with on an almost daily basis, and are fair game to be brought with you to the fantasy world.

Items you are actually trained to use. For one reason or another, you may be trained to use certain weapons, instruments, or other materials but may not actually own them yourself or are currently in short supply. You are allowed to bring these with you to the Campaign, and are assumed to have proficiency in them, including the knowledge of how to maintain, operate, and use them properly and responsibly.

Player A has a bachelor’s degree in Engineering, and wishes to bring her undergraduate textbook, thinking that knowledge of real-life science would allow her to develop technologies that would otherwise be unavailable in a medieval setting. Player B, who is a Chemist by profession, chooses to bring a chemistry textbook he can understand, but doesn’t currently own, with the same plan in her mind. Player C, who is hobby musician, decides to bring his accordion with him, hoping this strange instrument will assist him and win over audiences by being exotic to the fantasy world, even if he cannot play it properly. Player D is trained as a classical violinist, but doesn’t currently have one, yet decides to add this as her instrument to her equipment list. Player E is a construction worker by profession, and decides to bring his hard hat to the fantasy world, because it is something he routinely uses at his workplace. In all these cases, it can be reasonably assumed that the Players either have or possess the items they want to bring, use these items on routine basis, or are actually capable of using them, so unless they contest each other on the matter, they should all be allowed to bring these items with them.

Cautionary example: It is one thing to own a firearm, for example, but it’s another thing to be a trained marksman who knows how the weapon works and how to clean it properly. Since this is a campaign somewhat tied to reality, the knowledge of what to do if a rifle jams, how to prevent it from succumbing into rust, and how to fire with it without hitting a party member can make a huge difference in survival. This is why choosing classes, backgrounds and equipment are not matters to be taken lightly; an intelligent DM can make sure that a healthy dose of reality will dampen your odds.

G. Skills and Proficiencies

After selecting your classes and backgrounds, you gain proficiency in the skills associated with them. You must, to the best of your ability, select skills that would reflect your proficiencies in real life when you choose your class skills (your two proficiency skills gained from background are automatic, and cannot be changed). Like with all other things, this can be contested, but overlaps are inevitable and should be accepted.

IV. Optional Rules and Additional Guidelines

At the DM’s discretion, the following rules and guidelines may apply:

A. No Heterogeneous Party

The DM may opt to lift the rule regarding duplicates of classes and allow more than one person to pick one class, or allow characters to begin at level 2 and multiclass to create a character more in line to their real-life professions or fields of expertise.

B. Random Classes for the Undecided

Instead of creating Sorcerer characters for those who cannot select or determine a class, the class can be determined randomly, or alternatively, the players who wish to select a class can roll a d20 and compare the higher value to be able to play the class (rerolling in the event of ties until a clear selection is made).

C. Past Selves Option

Players may opt, with the permission of the DM, to play a younger version of themselves that suits a different class, background, or alignment that is still faithful to their real-life selves. In this case, age, height, weight, and other characteristics are adjusted accordingly.

D. Suggestions for Classes

Note: The skills listed below are from the Player Handbook. A DM may need to customize them according to the actual backgrounds of the players in reality.

Barbarian – defined by “using the power of raw strength and skill”, a Barbarian class could be assigned to: people with spiritual faiths (such as Native Americans or Shinto practitioners), berserkers, professional wrestlers, people with anger management issues, people who never finished high school or equivalent degrees, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Animal Handling, Athletics, Intimidation, Nature, Perception, and Survival.

Bard – defined by “using the power of words and music”, professional musicians, poets, orators, actors, speechwriters, people who work in embassies, social activists, people with degrees in multiple fields (but no specialization), people who studied fields of interdisciplinary nature (international studies, liberal arts, hybrid degrees of two or more fields), and the like. Choose any three skills to be proficient in.

Cleric – defined by “using the power of belief in a deity”, seminarians, religious authorities, registered clergy, priests who spread the faith, nuns and sisters, doctors by profession, people who openly practice faiths (with organized religions), people with degrees in philosophy, theology, or mythology. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: History, Insight, Medicine, Persuasion, and Religion.

Druid – defined by “using the power of nature and animals”, a Druid class could be assigned to: environmentalists, zookeepers, herbologists, professional horticulturists, pet trainers, people with degrees in natural sciences (but especially botany, zoology, biology, life sciences, environmental sciences), and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, Animal Handling, Insight, Medicine, Nature, Perception, Religion, and Survival.

Fighter – defined by “being an exceptional combatant”, a Fighter class could be assigned to: combat-oriented soldiers, weapon-oriented soldiers, weapons experts, people with degrees in military tactics or military history, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, and Survival.

Monk – defined by “being a practitioner of asceticism and training”, a Monk class could be assigned to: priests or nuns who remain in monasteries or cloisters, people who train in Asian martial arts with spiritual elements, fung shui experts and geomancers, hermits, people with degrees in eastern philosophy and religion, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Acrobatics, Athletics, History, Insight, Religion, and Stealth.

Paladin – defined by “using the power of an oath and moral principles”, a Paladin class could be assigned to: police officers, military personnel, doctors by vocation (healing the sick and the weak), lawyers by vocation (defending the poor), priests who travel (missionaries for the marginalized), anyone with a personal oath and profession tasked to “serve and protect” (and who stands by this oath no matter what), wide-eyed idealists, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, Medicine, Persuasion, and Religion.

Ranger – defined by “being a protector of nature and the wilds”, a Ranger class could be assigned to: professional geographers, pathfinders, wilderness experts, mountaineers, spelunkers, cartographers, foresters, homesteaders, woodspersons and outdoorsmen, forest rangers, and the like. Choose three among the following skills to be proficient in: Animal Handling, Athletics, Insight, Investigation, Nature, Perception, Stealth, and Survival.

Rogue – defined by “being able to use stealth to achieve ends”, a Rogue class could be assigned to: detectives, private investigators, investigative journalists, diplomats, people who work in embassies, trained gymnasts and acrobats, pathological liars, specialists of disguise, people with degrees in multiple fields (but one or two fields of expertise), and the like. Choose four among the following skills to be proficient in: Acrobatics, Athletics, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Perception, Performance, Persuasion, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth.

Sorcerer – defined by “being of strange, wondrous or fortunate ancestry of origin”, a Sorcerer class could be assigned to: people with royal heritage, prodigies, savants, people who have won in the lottery, abandoned orphans, and any players who cannot find a class that would otherwise suit them (wild magic from the scenario gives them their powers). Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Persuasion, and Religion.

Warlock – defined by “using and depending on the power of a patron”, a Warlock class could be assigned to: lawyers by profession, employees of a large corporation with a prominent CEO, people who believe in the existence of faeries or aliens (or other obscure supernatural beings who are not gods or goddesses with formal religions), people who are dependent on the support of a patron (financial or otherwise), conspiracy theorists, people with degrees in business and management. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, Deception, History, Intimidation, Investigation, Nature, and Religion.

Wizard – defined by “using the power of study and research”, a Wizard class could be assigned to: teachers, professors, people in the academe, researchers, scholars, people with above-average IQ, people with any degrees in higher education beyond college level (masters, PhD, etc.), and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, History, Insight, Investigation, Medicine, and Religion.

E. Suggestions for Backgrounds

Note: The skills listed below are from the Player Handbook. A DM may need to customize them according to the actual backgrounds of the players in reality.

Acolyte – An Acolyte background could be assigned to: pious devotees to any organized religion with set places of worship, those who regularly attend events or activities related to organized religions, people with degrees in theology who practice their religions, and the like. Skills: Insight, Religion.

Charlatan – A Charlatan background could be assigned to: hustlers, peddlers of psudeoscience or contraband products, people with degrees in business and management (but especially marketing), and the like. Skills: Deception, Sleight of Hand.

Criminal – A Criminal background could be assigned to: anyone with a criminal record, anyone who regularly engages (or has regularly engaged in) illegal or unlawful activity, anyone who was found guilty in a court of law, and the like. Skills: Deception, Stealth.

Variant Criminal: Spy – A Spy background could be assigned to: journalists, dataminers, truth seekers, conspiracy theorists, and the like. Skills: Deception, Stealth.

Entertainer – An Entertainer background could be assigned to: anyone who works with audiences for entertainment, people who work in circuses or casinos, professional performers, people with degrees in mass media or and communication arts. Skills: Acrobatics, Performance.

Variant Entertainer: Gladiator – a Gladiator background could be assigned to: professional athletes, gymnasts, professional wrestlers, professional martial artists, olympians, athletes for sport and competitions (and not just physical well-being). Skills: Acrobatics, Performance.

Folk Hero – A Folk Hero background could be assigned to: rebel leaders, activists, disaster relief and response units, farmers and farmhands, low-level politicians from humble upbringings, and the like. Skills: Animal Handling, Survival.

Guild Artisan – A Guild Artisan background could be assigned to: blue collar workers, people with degrees from vocational schools, people with small or medium enterprises built around arts and crafts, and the like. Skills: Insight, Persuasion.

Variant Guild Artisan: Guild Merchant – A Guild Merchant could be assigned to: door-to-door salesmen, telemarketers, travelling peddlers, business consultants, and the like. Skills: Insight, Persuasion.

Hermit – A Hermit background could be assigned to: people who live in seclusion, conspiracy theorists, and the like. Skills: Medicine, Religion.

Noble – A Noble background could be assigned to: people who belong to prominent or wealthy families, and the like. Skills: History, Persuasion.

Variant Noble: Knight – A Knight background could be assigned to: people who own land and have tenants who cater to them, and the like. Skills: History, Persuasion.

Outlander – An Outlander background could be assigned to: people who travel and move constantly, people who go mountain climbing or trekking, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Survival.

Sage – A Sage background could be assigned to: academics, research assistants, interns, professors, employees in the academe, researchers, librarians, and the like. Skills: Arcana, History.

Sailor – A Sailor background could be assigned to: seafarers, people who own ships or boats, lifeguards, marine biologists, people with professions related to bodies of water, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Perception.

Variant Sailor: Pirate – A Pirate background could be assigned to: people who have engaged in criminal activities related to water or piracy, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Perception.

Soldier – A Soldier background could be assigned to: people who have completed mandatory military service, professional soldiers, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Intimidation.

Urchin – An Urchin background could be assigned to: people who grew up in the cities, people with poor origins, and the like. Skills: Sleight of Hand, Stealth.

© 2016 DiceDiceBaby (with the help of members of the Giant in the Playground Forums!)

Hello, all!

I've been working on a bit of a pet project, and I've been looking around on the forums and other places online for ideas for a "Self-Insert" Campaign (a campaign in which your "real-life" selves are inserted into a D&D Campaign) and came up with a draft.

A lot of the pitfalls of previous attempts in doing this include:

1) PCs grossly overestimating or underestimating their abilites.
2) No balance between fantasy and reality.

So I tried to create a scenario-primer for such a campaign in which your team of PCs are transported into a fantasy world, the DM goes mad, and you have classes and backgrounds based on reality, with a pinch of "magic" thrown in to justify boosting your abilities, and equipment based on what you have in reality, rather than from what the PHB dictates on Classes and Backgrounds. I decided that, instead of debating endlessly on the accuracy of the characters relative to reality, maybe it is better to handwave it by simply making the PCs caricatures of themselves, highlighting their positive aspects and playing it up because the "magic" enhanced their abilities as humans.

I'd love to hear some feedback; constructive criticism would be much appreciated.

[mgshamster]

All in all, I like what you propose.

Ability scores are well managed, if not a bit high (but that might be ok). Personally, I'd drop each one by two.

Classes are a bit different, though - maybe those should be the same as ability scores. A lot of modern day careers don't translate to D&D classes (most of us would be NPCs). Therefore, it may be better to arbitrarily assign classes to people (either randomly or have the player choose what class they would want to be based on personality rather than skill). Personally, I disagree with setting up classes for party balance - I find same-class parties to be very interesting, and people should play what they want. If everyone wanted the wizard, then that's what they would have to deal with if they all got transplanted into the game.

From there, their own experiences and careers in life could be reflected in their background, much like you suggest. Just out of curiousity, how do we deal with people who have very diverse backgrounds? Someone who is a subject area expert in multiple fields?

[Comet]

Here's hoping you have a very interesting group of players from all walks of life or you're just gonna end up with a bunch of nerds shouting at each other over who gets to be the wizard.

[ravenkith]

I think adding a line about: "If you can't agree amongst yourselves who should get a particular class or background, simple have each player roll a d20. The player with the highest number wins, and can take the preferred class. If a tie results, simply roll again until there is a clear winner."

That said, you are putting a LOT of faith in your players to be upstanding.

For the record though, pretty much anyone from modern times (regardless of their individual training), is pretty much dead within a week of being placed in a medieval type universe.

There might be a few people who could make it a little longer, if they have some wilderness survival skills/special forces backgrounds/SCA tendencies all in one package, but otherwise, it's dead guy city, population: you.

Why? A couple of reasons.

Modern humans are, in general, soft. We are also impatient. We are arrogant and unafraid.

We have been spoiled by decades of being able to simply run out to the store and buy something. Most of use have no clue when it comes to living off the land. We are used to a wide variety of foods, entertainments, and lots of leisure time. That simply would not be the case anymore - you would have to physically work, ALL DAY, if you wanted to survive, and be grateful for the same lousy food being on the table every day.

We're used to being able to jump in a car and travel 100 miles in about an hour and a half. In comparison, it takes the Salt Grass Trail ride folks (with wagons), 6 days to cover a similar distance (just over 90 miles). Modern man complains at having to wait ten minutes for someone to answer a phone call. In medieval times, you had to send someone on foot with a message, or else, rely on messenger birds! Modern man has access to all the information and entertainment you could want, at the touch of a button - you can find out what's happening on the other side of the world in mere seconds. Medieval man was, in comparison, completely out of the loop, always - they often had no idea what was happening 5 miles away. You're going to get frustrated, then sloppy, then cut corners, and then you're dead.

Finally, we, as modern people, live in an age of relative lawfulness, peace and security. With modern policing techniques and having hunted apex predators out of the top spots in the food chain, we walk unafraid down the streets of our cities and towns, for the most part unworried that we are going to get robbed, killed or eaten by a bear. We also are indignant and outraged when anyone tramples on our personal freedoms and 'rights', as we see them. Those mindsets and reactions which are bred into us from birth will absolutely, without a doubt, get you 100% dead more than anything else I've mentioned here.

You look the wrong guy in the eye and he will have you in the ground faster than you can blink. You don't kneel at the right time, speak out of turn, walk ahead of the wrong person, it's all over. Just flat out JAILED or EXECUTED, with no legal recourse, no court of appeal, no NOTHING.

Oh, and the jails and prisons we have have now? Heaven compared to the dungeons of history. Most people going to jail in the past were facing an absolute death sentence, regardless of the lengths of their actual sentences: guard brutality was just the beginning...

Then, if you do somehow manage to deal with all of the above, if you're that ONE guy who has practiced sword fighting, archery, courtly manners and survival skills all your life, and you happen to know 5 or 6 ancient dialects of the right languages for the area you end up in, there's ALSO the psychological aspect of things. System shock, or whatever you want to call it. Let's say you don't stress yourself into a heart attack right away; Everyone you ever knew is pretty much gone, and you'll never see them again. You've been completely displaced, and the world you were raised in and your privileged place in it (if you are from pretty much anywhere in the western world, regardless of race) has turned into mist. You have been completely and totally uprooted and cast adrift, and if you aren't mentally tough enough, you're going to snap, and either go bat **** crazy or comatose.

Now throw in the fact that MAGIC is now real, multiple GODS exist, and apparently grant prayers, and oh, is that a mother friggin' Dragonborn in the corner there?

At this point you will pretty much have to question your sanity. Something like: "That last orc I cut down...was it really an orc, or am I hallucinating and it was actually my grandma?"

Yep. Definitely gonna crack. Probably wouldn't take too long, either.

[Sir cryosin]

Raven I disagree with you. Humans have been a very adaptive race. Yes a lot of people will turn out like you say. But we still have that survival instinct and the brain capacity to know that we are going to have to change our ways if we want to survive. You also got to think about we have a lot more basic knowledge than people would of that time. And surviving wouldn't really be that hard there is a lot of people who have skills that can be very usefull. A lot of people go hunting and fishing. People have basic farming skills with them keeping gardens. I don't know about other people but I work on a farm from sun up to sun down 7 days a week I have spent have a year just working on a boat out at sea with no form of entertainment out the a couple of books. Now I would agree that most of the higher standard living country's the people would not be able to make it but the numbers would surprise you. Just because of the will to survive.

[ZenBear]

I agree with Cryosin. Humans are far more adaptable than Raven credits, and the advantages of a modern upbringing are significant. Grade school understanding of English, math and science puts you leagues ahead of the vast majority of the population, and as long as you can find your way to a populated area with a common language (assumed in this case) anyone with half a brain could strike a deal to work for room and board. The smart ones will quickly pick up on the societal norms and find their way into a fortune through invention, mercantilism or straight BSing.

If I were to run this game, I would completely ignore the heterogeneous party rule. The players pick the class and background that best fits their identity, and if that means a party of 5 Rogues then that's just the way it is.

[mgshamster]

Mind if I turn this thread into a fun thought game?

What do you think your class and background would be based on your current life skills and personality? Do you think it would be different than what you would want to be (ie do your current skills not match up with your desired skills as an adventurer?)

[ZenBear]

Mind if I turn this thread into a fun thought game?

What do you think your class and background would be based on your current life skills and personality? Do you think it would be different than what you would want to be (ie do your current skills not match up with your desired skills as an adventurer?)

TBPH I think about this quite a lot. :smallredface:

Fighter with the Guild Artisan background. I'm naturally strong and tough and I train in MMA regularly (4-6 days/week), hence Fighter. I'm a service/repair plumber, hence Guild Artisan. I'm fairly wise IMO and quite intelligent according to academic standards but I slacked off in high school and never really leveraged my mental capabilities into a career. Maybe Eldritch Knight subclass. I'm charismatic at times, but I wouldn't score myself very high as a stat. I love Paladins but my low CHA and aetheism makes it a poor fit.

[mgshamster]

TBPH I think about this quite a lot. :smallredface:

Fighter with the Guild Artisan background. I'm naturally strong and tough and I train in MMA regularly (4-6 days/week), hence Fighter. I'm a service/repair plumber, hence Guild Artisan. I'm fairly wise IMO and quite intelligent according to academic standards but I slacked off in high school and never really leveraged my mental capabilities into a career. Maybe Eldritch Knight subclass. I'm charismatic at times, but I wouldn't score myself very high as a stat. I love Paladins but my low CHA and aetheism makes it a poor fit.

MMA doesn't train with weapons or armor, so maybe a monk? Otherwise you're doing 1 point of damage.

Also, paladin's are required to follow a deity, just an oath. For spells, an atheist paladin would need a spell component pouch instead of a holy symbol.

[Tanarii]

It seems like some classes would be impossible to qualify for. Sorcerers and Warlocks in particular.

That said, lets have some fun listing possible real life backgrounds and personal interests that might qualify you for each class. :) Some might restrict you to certain sub-classes of course.

Barbarian:
Reputation for irrational temper.
Member of an ancestor or spiritual worshiping religion. (Shinto?)

Bard:
Musician, poet, actor or other performer.
Certain college degrees (English, Liberal Arts)

Cleric:
Actual seminary studies
Registered Priest (Universal Life Church?)
Philosophy Major

Druid:
Pet trainer or gardener or other trained professional
Hippie or hard-core environmentalist

Fighter:
Actually trained in use of any weapon, including archery

Monk:
Trained martial artist

Paladin:
See both Fighter and Cleric above
Natural crusader personality

Ranger:
See both Fighter and Druid above
Avid hiker, rock-climber, or outdoorsman
crazy cat lady (or other person that owns too many pets)

Rogue:
Reputation as a Liar and a cheat
Trained acrobat or (more likely) gymnast

Sorcerer:
Reputation for being naturally talented at whatever you do? (I'm stuck on this one)

Warlock:
Conspiracy theorist believer
Cult leader I'm guessing that's pretty unlikely ;) so ...
MBA degree or job in Marketing :p

Wizard:
Any STEM Bachelors or higher degree

[ZenBear]

MMA doesn't train with weapons or armor, so maybe a monk? Otherwise you're doing 1 point of damage.

Also, paladin's are required to follow a deity, just an oath. For spells, an atheist paladin would need a spell component pouch instead of a holy symbol.

My gym teaches Jiujutsu, Muay Thai and Shaolin Kempo. The latter includes weapon training; I'm quite skilled with the staff and spear, and I'm getting started on the Chinese longsword. The issue with Monk is I am not dexterous. My technique consists of more blocking than evading. Fighting unarmed or armored opponents while I'm unarmed or armored is fine, but if they have weapons and armor I'm going to need them too. As for armor proficiency, that's something pretty much nobody except reenactors and hardcore enthusiasts could have, and kevlar vests such as cops and soldiers don't really qualify IMO.

I still feel like I'm not the charismatic leader a Paladin is supposed to be by definition, so the aetheism workaround helps but doesn't solve the issue.

[mgshamster]

Tanarii, I like your list. Mind if I add on to it?

Barbarian:
I'd add that an outdoorsman could equally qualify for this or ranger.

Paladin:
I'd add that anyone who has sworn and upholds an oath of morality may possibly qualify, such as US soldiers oath upon enlistment - so long as the individual actually upholds the ideals they swore by (a lot of soldiers swear on the oath, but then never think about it again).

Rogue:
Those who peddle pseudoscience could qualify for this, too, provided they're not a true-believer.

Sorcerer:
Anyone who's parents or grandparents were conspiracy theorist believers or involved in a cult. :)
Also, could be a back up for anyone who doesn't fit in another category.

Warlock:
I'd add on: alienists, people who believe in faeries, satanists, etc... Ties in with your ideas, but also expands it a bit.
Also, could be a back up for anyone who doesn't fit in another category.

[swrider]

Tanarii, I like your list. Mind if I add on to it?

[QUOTE=Tanarii;20499761]

Sorcerer:
Anyone who's parents or grandparents were conspiracy theorist believers or involved in a cult. :)
Also, could be a back up for anyone who doesn't fit in another category.

Warlock:
I'd add on: alienists, people who believe in faeries, satanists, etc... Ties in with your ideas, but also expands it a bit.
Also, could be a back up for anyone who doesn't fit in another category.

I'd have to nominate lawyers for the warlock class also.

As for myself I would be either a Druid or a Sorcerer. I have a background in Chemical biological radiological and nuclear operations (with the military), I am currently a health physicist (Radiation safety) and have a Bachelor's in environmental science. I'm also an Eagle Scout and have spent a lot of time out doors.
The radiation aspect lends itself to sorcerer because it is unseen, everywhere, can be used for both good and evil, and can only be controlled to an extent.

[mgshamster]

MBA degree or job in Marketing :p

Goes in line with my Corporate Patron (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20403567&postcount=75)

:)

[ZenBear]

Goes in line with my Corporate Patron (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20403567&postcount=75)

:)

Haha! That's awesome! 😂

So how about you hamster? What class/background would you be in the D&Dverse?

Edit: I judge the merits of my irl stats very heavily in this decision; as I explained, my low DEX means I'm not a Monk, low CHA means I'm not a Paladin. For our nuclear military man here he doesn't seem to be considering the stats side of things as much (clearly high INT, whereas Druid is a WIS class and Sorc CHA). Does either method have greater merit than the other in your (the forum) opinions?

[ravenkith]

Raven I disagree with you. Humans have been a very adaptive race. Yes a lot of people will turn out like you say. But we still have that survival instinct and the brain capacity to know that we are going to have to change our ways if we want to survive. You also got to think about we have a lot more basic knowledge than people would of that time. And surviving wouldn't really be that hard there is a lot of people who have skills that can be very usefull. A lot of people go hunting and fishing. People have basic farming skills with them keeping gardens. I don't know about other people but I work on a farm from sun up to sun down 7 days a week I have spent have a year just working on a boat out at sea with no form of entertainment out the a couple of books. Now I would agree that most of the higher standard living country's the people would not be able to make it but the numbers would surprise you. Just because of the will to survive.

Keeping a garden is NOTHING like keeping a farm. The two aren't in the least comparable. Ask a farmer. Also, Keeping a farm with MODERN techniques is NOTHING like keeping a farm with medieval techniques. I got two words for you: "combine harvester". Even those people whose lives are tied to the land in this day and age DON'T have the skills and know how (how to run a plow horse, how to use a scythe) to make it in the back then.

Furthermore, modern hunters and fishermen rely on tools and tricks that have been developed over hundreds of years: fisherman in that time frame mostly did it with nets, traps or spears, not rods and lines (definitely NOT reels), and the majority of current hunters use guns, not bows or crossbows.

Finally, much of the 'basic knowledge' we get trained in today is only of use in a post-industrial age. (see more below).


I agree with Cryosin. Humans are far more adaptable than Raven credits, and the advantages of a modern upbringing are significant. Grade school understanding of English, math and science puts you leagues ahead of the vast majority of the population, and as long as you can find your way to a populated area with a common language (assumed in this case) anyone with half a brain could strike a deal to work for room and board. The smart ones will quickly pick up on the societal norms and find their way into a fortune through invention, mercantilism or straight BSing.

If I were to run this game, I would completely ignore the heterogeneous party rule. The players pick the class and background that best fits their identity, and if that means a party of 5 Rogues then that's just the way it is.

Modern upbringings: specifically high school level educations in math, english and science, are designed to theoretically prepare you to enter the modern workforce, or, if you do well enough, prepare you to pursue higher education. The drawback here is since they are designed to prepare as many people for as many paths as possible, they are pretty broad based and generic. Lacking in specificity, they lose value in terms of survival.

Assuming you speak the local language (which is a pretty big assumption, but whatever), sure, you can write a letter, figure out the area of a square with your geometry, add, subtract, multiply and divide, and these skills may get you a job as a clerk somewhere. This is your absolute BEST shot at survival. But using these skills will DEFINITELY put you in social situations with the elite of the age, which will expose you to quick and sudden death due to your inability to maintain proper respect. ONE snide remark, and you're done.

Just forget the 'science' skills you speak of: they won't get you anywhere in a pre-industrial society. The science you are taught in high school is of the theoretical, and not practical kind.

For instance, if you get dropped off in the bronze age, you may know that iron and carbon are used to make steel, but that doesn't tell you anything about the process, and how it would have to be adapted for the available level of technology.

Medieval times? You may know that penicillin comes from mold, but you probably have no idea of which ones, how or when to administer it, and on what to use it.

You might even be able to sketch a model of a steam engine, but that doesn't mean you can build it.

The simple fact is that pure knowledge, the kind we are taught in basic educations, is of little to no value in a survival situation because most of us lack the experience in how to translate THEORY into ACTION.

As someone who has acted in numerous plays, studied martial arts extensively, been a member of the SCA and IFGS (a foam-padded weapon fighting society similar to Amtgard), holds archery and survival badges from Scouting, speaks both English and German (which is one of several languages which has changed the least over the centuries), I can honestly say that with all I know, I fully realize that I have learned just enough to be able to honestly see how screwed I would be.

While I would give it my best effort, and suspect that I could survive maybe six months, I would eventually **** up and do something to get myself killed. Probably a smart-aleck remark, or telling someone something stupid like "No, you idiot, the earth is round and revolves around the sun!" (Which you could be burned to death for as late as the 1600s).

[Ruslan]

I agree with Cryosin. Humans are far more adaptable than Raven credits<snip>
Whether one agrees with Raven or not, he did an excellent job outlining the challenges facing a modern person in a D&D setting, and none of them should be brushed aside lightly with "it's okay, they have a will to live" or "it's okay, they might have farming experience". Will the modern person be able to overcome those challenges, is, of course, a question yet to be answered...

[PeteNutButter]

As for armor proficiency, that's something pretty much nobody except reenactors and hardcore enthusiasts could have, and kevlar vests such as cops and soldiers don't really qualify IMO.

The protective gear we wear in the military is both heavier and more unwieldy than plate mail. The IBA and ACH are also less evenly distributed, with very heavy weight on the shoulders and practically nothing on the limbs usually. Having both the academic knowledge and personal experience of both... I'd wear plate mail in modern combat if it worked as well :P. Except that helmet, damned be your vision.

Before deployment we spend months wearing that ****, all day, and often wear it all day overseas. It's definitely a proficiency.

Anyways as a Army Officer, I think I should qualify for a paladin. I'll make no claims about alignment though.

[mgshamster]

Haha! That's awesome! 😂

So how about you hamster? What class/background would you be in the D&Dverse?

Edit: I judge the merits of my irl stats very heavily in this decision; as I explained, my low DEX means I'm not a Monk, low CHA means I'm not a Paladin. For our nuclear military man here he doesn't seem to be considering the stats side of things as much (clearly high INT, whereas Druid is a WIS class and Sorc CHA). Does either method have greater merit than the other in your (the forum) opinions?

Well, remember that for this thought experiment, your stats will be (artificially?) inflated. So you could have the dex required. Or you'd be a strength based monk and just be a little lacking on the AC. I've even played with the idea of a low charisma paladin, all you lose is some spell versatility, divine sense uses, and a reduced aura effect (min +1).

As for me. Background of solider, wizard class. I spent 4 years in the army, nearly two of those years in combat. Then I went to college; Two bachelor degrees - chemistry and toxicology, and a master's degree - forensic science (research on forensic toxicology). Now I work as a chemist in industry; working with and designing products for chemical measurement.

[Sir cryosin]

Keeping a garden is NOTHING like keeping a farm. The two aren't in the least comparable. Ask a farmer. Also, Keeping a farm with MODERN techniques is NOTHING like keeping a farm with medieval techniques. I got two words for you: "combine harvester". Even those people whose lives are tied to the land in this day and age DON'T have the skills and know how (how to run a plow horse, how to use a scythe) to make it in the back then.

Furthermore, modern hunters and fishermen rely on tools and tricks that have been developed over hundreds of years: fisherman in that time frame mostly did it with nets, traps or spears, not rods and lines (definitely NOT reels), and the majority of current hunters use guns, not bows or crossbows.

Finally, much of the 'basic knowledge' we get trained in today is only of use in a post-industrial age. (see more below).



Modern upbringings: specifically high school level educations in math, english and science, are designed to theoretically prepare you to enter the modern workforce, or, if you do well enough, prepare you to pursue higher education. The drawback here is since they are designed to prepare as many people for as many paths as possible, they are pretty broad based and generic. Lacking in specificity, they lose value in terms of survival.

Assuming you speak the local language (which is a pretty big assumption, but whatever), sure, you can write a letter, figure out the area of a square with your geometry, add, subtract, multiply and divide, and these skills may get you a job as a clerk somewhere. This is your absolute BEST shot at survival. But using these skills will DEFINITELY put you in social situations with the elite of the age, which will expose you to quick and sudden death due to your inability to maintain proper respect. ONE snide remark, and you're done.

Just forget the 'science' skills you speak of: they won't get you anywhere in a pre-industrial society. The science you are taught in high school is of the theoretical, and not practical kind.

For instance, if you get dropped off in the bronze age, you may know that iron and carbon are used to make steel, but that doesn't tell you anything about the process, and how it would have to be adapted for the available level of technology.

Medieval times? You may know that penicillin comes from mold, but you probably have no idea of which ones, how or when to administer it, and on what to use it.

You might even be able to sketch a model of a steam engine, but that doesn't mean you can build it.

The simple fact is that pure knowledge, the kind we are taught in basic educations, is of little to no value in a survival situation because most of us lack the experience in how to translate THEORY into ACTION.

As someone who has acted in numerous plays, studied martial arts extensively, been a member of the SCA and IFGS (a foam-padded weapon fighting society similar to Amtgard), holds archery and survival badges from Scouting, speaks both English and German (which is one of several languages which has changed the least over the centuries), I can honestly say that with all I know, I fully realize that I have learned just enough to be able to honestly see how screwed I would be.

While I would give it my best effort, and suspect that I could survive maybe six months, I would eventually **** up and do something to get myself killed. Probably a smart-aleck remark, or telling someone something stupid like "No, you idiot, the earth is round and revolves around the sun!" (Which you could be burned to death for as late as the 1600s).

I go hunting yes I use a rifle but that's not all I use I go bow hunting when it bow season I have all so used a crossbow. I go hunting with a muzzle loader aka black powder. My time in rotc taught wilderness survival skills mapping map reading set snares traps, tracking I can make a fishing net and line from plant fibers I have mma training I can and have learned to study my surroundings and read people so that I may fit in to the society even if you can't speck the language you will beable to fine some form of communication. Humans have been doing it for hundreds of years.I'm afraid with your mindset personality you would get killed

[Kurald Galain]

Modern upbringings: specifically high school level educations in math, english and science, are designed to theoretically prepare you to enter the modern workforce, or, if you do well enough, prepare you to pursue higher education.
I'm going to disagree on that. For example, financial accounting was invented in 14th century Italy; if you are skilled in modern-day accounting, you can adapt to the earlier forms (which are, after all, simpler). Heck, simply knowing how to read and do high-school-level math is a relatively rare skill in medieval times and could get you a decent job as a clerk anywhere.


ONE snide remark, and you're done.
Shakespeare suggests that medieval people were just prone to snide remarks as us, really.

[ZenBear]

Keeping a garden is NOTHING like keeping a farm. The two aren't in the least comparable. Ask a farmer. Also, Keeping a farm with MODERN techniques is NOTHING like keeping a farm with medieval techniques. I got two words for you: "combine harvester". Even those people whose lives are tied to the land in this day and age DON'T have the skills and know how (how to run a plow horse, how to use a scythe) to make it in the back then.

Furthermore, modern hunters and fishermen rely on tools and tricks that have been developed over hundreds of years: fisherman in that time frame mostly did it with nets, traps or spears, not rods and lines (definitely NOT reels), and the majority of current hunters use guns, not bows or crossbows.

Finally, much of the 'basic knowledge' we get trained in today is only of use in a post-industrial age. (see more below).



Modern upbringings: specifically high school level educations in math, english and science, are designed to theoretically prepare you to enter the modern workforce, or, if you do well enough, prepare you to pursue higher education. The drawback here is since they are designed to prepare as many people for as many paths as possible, they are pretty broad based and generic. Lacking in specificity, they lose value in terms of survival.

Assuming you speak the local language (which is a pretty big assumption, but whatever), sure, you can write a letter, figure out the area of a square with your geometry, add, subtract, multiply and divide, and these skills may get you a job as a clerk somewhere. This is your absolute BEST shot at survival. But using these skills will DEFINITELY put you in social situations with the elite of the age, which will expose you to quick and sudden death due to your inability to maintain proper respect. ONE snide remark, and you're done.

Just forget the 'science' skills you speak of: they won't get you anywhere in a pre-industrial society. The science you are taught in high school is of the theoretical, and not practical kind.

For instance, if you get dropped off in the bronze age, you may know that iron and carbon are used to make steel, but that doesn't tell you anything about the process, and how it would have to be adapted for the available level of technology.

Medieval times? You may know that penicillin comes from mold, but you probably have no idea of which ones, how or when to administer it, and on what to use it.

You might even be able to sketch a model of a steam engine, but that doesn't mean you can build it.

The simple fact is that pure knowledge, the kind we are taught in basic educations, is of little to no value in a survival situation because most of us lack the experience in how to translate THEORY into ACTION.

As someone who has acted in numerous plays, studied martial arts extensively, been a member of the SCA and IFGS (a foam-padded weapon fighting society similar to Amtgard), holds archery and survival badges from Scouting, speaks both English and German (which is one of several languages which has changed the least over the centuries), I can honestly say that with all I know, I fully realize that I have learned just enough to be able to honestly see how screwed I would be.

While I would give it my best effort, and suspect that I could survive maybe six months, I would eventually **** up and do something to get myself killed. Probably a smart-aleck remark, or telling someone something stupid like "No, you idiot, the earth is round and revolves around the sun!" (Which you could be burned to death for as late as the 1600s).

We're talking about the circumstance presented in the OP; wake up in a tevern with your gear and you speak the Common language.

The 12 years of grade school, plus maybe pre-school/kindergarten, and a plethora of extracurricular learning a modern upbringing consists of teaches you how to learn. Even the less obvious things like watching ads on TV teaches the observant basic marketing skills, and your job(s) teach things like customer service, practical physics, organization, etc. You don't have to invent penicillin; if you know basic first-aide you can save lives, perhaps become a surgeon's apprentice or gain entry to a medical college if they have them, learn the skills they can teach, then apply your new found knowledge with your modern knowledge to make a career. There are too many possibilities to list of ways to leverage your vastly superior education into profit in a world full of illiterate, superstitious dullards.

Your assumption that people can't learn etiquette is way off. We all learn basic manners, and the specific etiquette of the culture can be learned. Just tell them you're a foreigner, which they should believe by your clothes and mannerisms, and I'm sure they'll have someone instruct you on the proper forms. Only the exceptionally thick-skulled or unlucky will fail in this.

[PeteNutButter]

Going back to the OP. I did one of these once and the DM basically decided our attributes. I wouldn't recommend that but inflating the scores like you suggest kind of takes away the point of playing yourself. If you are naturally clumsy but your dex got inflated to 15 are you really playing yourself anymore or just another DnD character with an uninventive name?

I'd say point buy so it's still fair, but ask them to be as close to honest as possible. I.e. discourage the drug addict hippie from boosting his wisdom to 15 so he can be a better Druid. All said and done you will not have optimal stats and it will make your players feel weak and add to the realism of how ****ed they really are.

It was a fun challenge trying to overcome our own shortcomings. For instance our monk who was an expert martial artist didn't have much wisdom because we all know he is famously bad with impulse control. His lower AC forced him to play smart so he didn't die, especially since he was playing himself.

[ravenkith]

Guys.

You are welcome to your opinions: mine is different from yours.

Quick set of responses:

1. Please keep in mind that tolerance of other's cultures is a modern thing. Saying you're foreign will not help you. Historically, societies have not been very forgiving of breaches of etiquette.

2. I did mention you could try to be a clerk, probably successfully (using a quill and ink is a LOT different from a modern pen or computer), but that this would lead you to additional societal exposure, leading most likely, to death from someone you offend, completely without meaning to. In Japanese culture, for instance, not bowing far enough would be a grievous offense. What I'm implying here is that you would inevitably torque off the wrong person long before you had the chance to properly learn.

3. The 'basics of first aid' will not help you with sucking chest wounds. Worse, they might get you killed as a witch.

4. To cryosin: if your skill set is as you describe, you would likely survive. Right up until they killed you for poaching on a noble's land.

5. Lastly, my issue with social survival comes from the fact that I 'know' things, and will freely discuss them without a second thought, that would be considered heresy and reason enough to be tortured and killed, depending on what era in history I end up in. Heliocentrism. The idea that the earth is round. The concept that all men are created equal. The idea that slavery is wrong.

In fact, as just one example of a really stupid way to die, as a Christian, if I end up in a Muslim nation and let slip a 'Jesus Christ!' - well, that's probably more than a paddlin', I'm guessing.

[swrider]

Haha! That's awesome! ��

So how about you hamster? What class/background would you be in the D&Dverse?

Edit: I judge the merits of my irl stats very heavily in this decision; as I explained, my low DEX means I'm not a Monk, low CHA means I'm not a Paladin. For our nuclear military man here he doesn't seem to be considering the stats side of things as much (clearly high INT, whereas Druid is a WIS class and Sorc CHA). Does either method have greater merit than the other in your (the forum) opinions?

Actually I was taking stats into account. My current job has me conducting inspections throughout the state (CHA) and the military was more about Appling knowledge and adapting to unique circumstances, than it was learning the exact details of each "hazard". To me that is more wisdom, but that is probably open for debate.

Also has anyone seen the TV show "The Quest" that is a great example of how to do this type of campaign. You bring the modern players in as prophesied heroes and they are trained to the point that they can accomplish their destiny.

[mgshamster]

Guys.

You are welcome to your opinions: mine is different from yours.

That's perfectly fine, but if you're going to use this as a defense, then don't turn around and declare your own opinions as fact. It's hypocritical.

[ZenBear]

Whether one agrees with Raven or not, he did an excellent job outlining the challenges facing a modern person in a D&D setting, and none of them should be brushed aside lightly with "it's okay, they have a will to live" or "it's okay, they might have farming experience". Will the modern person be able to overcome those challenges, is, of course, a question yet to be answered...
Fair point. I don't argue that there is a decent chance you would die, but it's hardly as dire as he makes it out to be.

The protective gear we wear in the military is both heavier and more unwieldy than plate mail. The IBA and ACH are also less evenly distributed, with very heavy weight on the shoulders and practically nothing on the limbs usually. Having both the academic knowledge and personal experience of both... I'd wear plate mail in modern combat if it worked as well :P. Except that helmet, damned be your vision.

Before deployment we spend months wearing that ****, all day, and often wear it all day overseas. It's definitely a proficiency.

Anyways as a Army Officer, I think I should qualify for a paladin. I'll make no claims about alignment though.
I wasn't talking about conditioning. I equate proficiency with familiarity of function. A power lifter might have the endurance to swing a sword for hours but that doesn't mean he's proficient. That being said I won't argue the point. You have more knowledge of modern military equipment obviously.

[Tanarii]

Tanarii, I like your list. Mind if I add on to it?That was my intent. To start off a list people could add to. ;)


Paladin:
I'd add that anyone who has sworn and upholds an oath of morality may possibly qualify, such as US soldiers oath upon enlistment - so long as the individual actually upholds the ideals they swore by (a lot of soldiers swear on the oath, but then never think about it again).Ex-military from most modern first world countries would make great Paladins or Fighters, or possibly even Rangers or Barbarians. Or (if former SpecOps) even Assassin Rogues.


I'd have to nominate lawyers for the warlock class also.Should have thought of that myself, my brothers a lawyer I love giving him crap for becoming beholden to a sick and depraved patron (ie the law).


Goes in line with my Corporate Patron (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20403567&postcount=75) Hahaha love it!

[Sir cryosin]

If the op has it to were we are transported with are real body's then I would say raven I am sorry you are right but not for the reasons you think. A Modern human would die not because they pissed the king off or because they don't have the right skill set. It because of biology a modern human immune system wouldnt beable to fight off new viruses or disease.

[mgshamster]

Ex-military from most modern first world countries would make great Paladins or Fighters, or possibly even Rangers or Barbarians. Or (if former SpecOps) even Assassin Rogues.

Yeah. Ideally, I'd want to be a devotion paladin. I believe I uphold the ideals of one and my actions are consistent with one. Most likely, though, I'd be a wizard who just happens to have the same ideals and morals as a devotion paladin.

My personal stats would definitely not be the most optimized for either class, but then that's how most people would be, anyways.

[Blackhawk748]

I just skimmed so forgive me if this has been brought up already. My most successful "Self Insert" campaign was one in which the players souls got transferred and they where in new bodies, this helps immeasurably with stats.


If the op has it to were we are transported with are real body's then I would say raven I am sorry you are right but not for the reasons you think. A Modern human would die not because they pissed the king off or because they don't have the right skill set. It because of biology a modern human immune system wouldnt beable to fight off new viruses or disease.

And cause a plague by bringing in all the diseases we are naturally immune to, but dont exist in that world

[Theodoxus]

I'd side about 65% with Raven. It primarily depends on the culture you find yourself in, but not all of Medieval Europe was Nottingham. I don't know his personal study of the cultural eras, but it sounds more like something out of Timeline than a history book.

I do agree that average Joe Schmo off the street being tossed back 1000 years would have a very difficult time of it - and would probably die from food / water borne illness. But since we're placing magic into the equation, one would assume such culinary issues would be handled by Magic!.

I guess that's where I'm having issues... are we talking about being flung into fantasy land ala a godling (Thomas Covenant) to deal with a situation outside of their control? As such, there's probably some guards and wards placed on the afflicted that keep them from failing at the start.
If it's an accident 'a science experiment that opens a portal to an alternate dimension where scientific progress is stymied because Magic!' then presumably nothing is looking out for the intrepid adventuring party and death by cholera will probably happen within the week.

So, for the thought experiment to work, I'll assume the former and that something(s) are guiding the party so they are protected, at least from mundane illness and social mores.

Given that, I'd be a cleric, probably knowledge. A cloistered clothie, actually... I'm an accountant by trade, but would definitely take a more evil bent along "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court", using my modest knowledge of planetary science, physics and biology to fool the people in charge (again, assuming we're being shielded by something akin to the TaRDIS, and can communicate effectively) that I'm an emissary of the gods...

Now, when I face a zombie or two, I'll be looking for my Rick Grimes faster than my holy symbol... so maybe Cleric shouldn't be my first choice :smallbiggrin:



ETA: Mghamster, that Corporate Patron fits perfectly with my American Patheon. Someday, I'm going to run a post-apoc D&D game set in 'what once was' America. These are the gods of the story:

Lady Liberty – Life, Death
Lady Justice – Knowledge, Life
Raven – Trickery, Arcane
Columbia – Light, Tempest
Uncle Sam – War, Trickery
Thunderbird – Tempest, Nature
Johnny Appleseed – Nature, Knowledge
Lincoln Washington – Death, War
Houdini – Arcane, Light

[Kurald Galain]

1. Please keep in mind that tolerance of other's cultures is a modern thing. Saying you're foreign will not help you. Historically, societies have not been very forgiving of breaches of etiquette.
Come now. Any number of traditional port cities beg to differ.



5. Lastly, my issue with social survival comes from the fact that I 'know' things, and will freely discuss them without a second thought, that would be considered heresy and reason enough to be tortured and killed, depending on what era in history I end up in. Heliocentrism. The idea that the earth is round. The concept that all men are created equal. The idea that slavery is wrong.
Yes, trying to rebel against the authorities will land you in trouble with the authorities :smallbiggrin:

[ravenkith]

@ mgshamster: Please allow me to clarify: What I meant was:
1. Hey you guys, I see your opinions and think they may have validity.
2. On the other hand, I think mine is more likely.
3. Here is my thought process and why I think horrible death will inevitably result in this situation, and in short order: (wall of text).

In part, I was trying to show respect and acknowledge the fact that others had different thinking on the matter, but then elucidate why my opinion on an individual's outlook remained bleak.

I apologize if this was less than clear.

@Gulain - If I recall correctly, port cities actually prove my point, as foreigners were often prevented from travelling to the interior and could only be present in the countries in question at the specially designated areas for them (those areas being the port cities themselves).

In the cases that I mention, I wasn't rebelling, merely stating facts as I understood them to be that were in direct contradiction to the prevailing mores of the time, which could theoretically get me in a lot of trouble just for saying them.

@Zenbear - The fact that it's not history and is actually an alternate universe actually makes the problem of etiquette worse: I mean, at least in our own universe, we have our limited knowledge of history to fall back on. In an alternate universe, we have no primer of any kind. Not sniffing someone's butt when you first meet them could be rude. Or, alternately, casting a spell in a public place could be a prohibited crime, kind of like discharging a firearm here. You never know.

In any case, I still believe that this kind of challenge would result in a 98% fatality rate.

That said, I'd probably end up being stuck as a monk or a rogue or something lame like that.

I could probably stretch my background to cover Paladin/Cleric/Wizard, but it *would* be a bit of a stretch, and others would likely have better claims.

[mgshamster]

@ mgshamster: Please allow me to clarify: What I meant was:
1. Hey you guys, I see your opinions and think they may have validity.
2. On the other hand, I think mine is more likely.
3. Here is my thought process and why I think horrible death will inevitably result in this situation, and in short order: (wall of text).

In part, I was trying to show respect and acknowledge the fact that others had different thinking on the matter, but then elucidate why my opinion on an individual's outlook remained bleak.

I apologize if this was less than clear.

That's fair, and I too apologize.

[ZenBear]

@ravenkith: I apologize if I have been disrespectful in any way. It is not my intention.

To frame it differently: your argument largely revolves around unknown variables like what sort of culture the players are being dropped into, and you are coming at it from a perspective of strict realism. Going off of the OP's presented scenario, I don't think that the variables are as unknown. We wake up in a tavern with gear and 30 gold in a civilization that speaks our language in the D&D universe. That last part actually informs us a lot. Most D&D worlds are very diverse, with a lot of adventurers of all different races roaming around freely. Very few cultures are prone to executing forigners at the drop of a hat. There are monsters aplenty, but then we get the enhanced stats and a class level, meaning we are better equipped to handle the threats than most.

If you want to argue pure realism of a modern day human in real world medieval Europe that's a different discussion upon which we still disagree somewhat, but your arguments are stronger there.

[EscherEnigma]

@Raven:
You might be right. And it might make for a good story in a solo-player game for the GM to toy with the line between reality and fantasy. But in a game with more then one player it wouldn't work so well, so eh.


Mind if I turn this thread into a fun thought game?

What do you think your class and background would be based on your current life skills and personality? Do you think it would be different than what you would want to be (ie do your current skills not match up with your desired skills as an adventurer?)
Hrm...

On one hand, there was that year in college that I spent playing with the SCA guys, and more recently with the Rugby guys. So based on my normal game group, that may end up making me a fighter. But that's mostly 'cause of relativity an' all. Can you make dex-based fighters? 'cause I am more dexy then strong.

On the other, I've got my BS and work as an engineer. So I'd have a good claim at wizard. Though one of the other members in the current group is also an employed engineer and she has her masters, so she might have a better claim.

Then again, I'm a Computer Scientist, so I regularly end up going to Stack Overflow and other sites looking up answers that I mostly understand and applying them. So that's kinda analogus to Warlock, where I'm doing science/magic under my own power, but I'm pulling the answers from an unknowable external source (the internet)? And I have used an odd void pointer or two in my time, so that's pretty black sorcery right there.

And if I still can't get a class, then maybe I'll go for bard. I love to sing and technically know how to play a couple of instruments. I mean, I'm not good at it, but while I'm not musically talented, I am musically inclined.

So there you have it. It'd probably be a fighter, wizard, warlock or bard under these rules.

[PotatoGolem]

Warlock or Bard are fitting for anyone whose job revolves around convincing other people- salesmen, attorneys, politicians, canvassers, all that sort of thing. Bard in particular works well for lawyers, policy-wonk type politicians, and anyone who does sales in a technical field, since it's a combination of knowledge and charisma. Only really works in 5e, where they've decoupled Bard from the whole music and performance thing.

Rogue could also be fitting for anyone who has a really strong focus in one particular area- you don't HAVE to take stealth. I could see a doctor or medical researcher being a rogue with expertise in medicine and nature. Yes, it's more combat-y, but 95% of modern jobs are way less combat-y than any possible D&D class.

[Sigreid]

Interesting this should come up. Long ago there was a game called Villains and Vigilantes where the default premise was playing yourself as a super hero. You were supposed to put your attributes into a 3-18 scale. What my friends and I did was the other people evaluated your stats, with 10 being average. If your group all genuinely know each other, you can set up a secret ballot where people evaluate each other for each attribute and average them out for a person. This will usually lead to attributes slanting high because you all hopefully like each other, but should give workable attributes.

[PeteNutButter]

Rogue could also be fitting for anyone who has a really strong focus in one particular area- you don't HAVE to take stealth. I could see a doctor or medical researcher being a rogue with expertise in medicine and nature. Yes, it's more combat-y, but 95% of modern jobs are way less combat-y than any possible D&D class.

+1
It actually makes sense for a doctor to have sneak attack, as he would know where to inflict damage.

[Tanarii]

What my friends and I did was the other people evaluated your stats, with 10 being average. If your group all genuinely know each other, you can set up a secret ballot where people evaluate each other for each attribute and average them out for a person.ha. The group I play with most regularly, we'd all end up with a 16+ Int. We all think we're all very smart.

TBH, in thirty years of playing I've met hundreds of D&D players, and I'd say D&D player's Int scores are almost universally above average for humans.

Or possibly I'm just biased, and subconsciously believe playing D&D takes native intelligence. ;)

[Sigreid]

ha. The group I play with most regularly, we'd all end up with a 16+ Int. We all think we're all very smart.

TBH, in thirty years of playing I've met hundreds of D&D players, and I'd say D&D player's Int scores are almost universally above average for humans.

Or possibly I'm just biased, and subconsciously believe playing D&D takes native intelligence. ;)

Yeah, I have no doubt that the game appeals most to people who are a bit intellectually focused. On the other side of that, good athletes also tend to be very intelligent as being good at a sport requires discipline, focus and mental acuity, even if they focus on different things.

[mgshamster]

Rating your own attributes is highly susceptible to the Dunning-Kruger effect. It's probably thing biggest down-side.

Back in 2e, since it used to have actually weight lifting attributes, we used to try to figure out our strength stat by lifting weights. Then we'd figure out our DEX stat by throwing darts on a dart board or billards balls into a target on the lawn. Con was determined by how often we got sick. Mental stats were the hardest, and we'd try to judge ourselves and each other honestly - but let's be real here, Dunning-Kruger takes a strong effect. I noticed that my smarter friends tend to rate themselves lower than I'd rate them, and my dumber friends rate themselves much higher than I'd rate them.

Edit; having pre-set array is actually really useful. All you have to do is figure out the order of your attributes, low to high, then assign the pre-set stats as appropriate. It's much easier to say "my intelligence is probably higher than my strength" than it is to figure out exactly what the score would be.

[Sigreid]

Rating your own attributes is highly susceptible to the Dunning-Kruger effect. It's probably thing biggest down-side.

Back in 2e, since it used to have actually weight lifting attributes, we used to try to figure out our strength stat by weight lifting. Then we'd figure out our DEX stat by throwing darts on a dart board or billards balls into a target on the lawn. Con was determined by how often we got sick. Mental stats were the hardest, and we'd try to judge ourselves and each other honestly - but let's be real here, Dunning-Kruger takes a strong effect. I notice that my smarter friends tend to rate themselves lower than I'd rate them, and my dumber friends rate themselves much higher than I'd rate them.

One of the reasons to take an average from secret submitted numbers. I forgot to mention that you also had the right to lower any of your attributes that you felt were too high. And yes, like I said the numbers will tend to trend high, but I don't really see that as a big down side. Really what you're trying to do is create a character for each person that they could see as themselves instead of just this guy I made.

[mgshamster]

One of the reasons to take an average from secret submitted numbers. I forgot to mention that you also had the right to lower any of your attributes that you felt were too high. And yes, like I said the numbers will tend to trend high, but I don't really see that as a big down side. Really what you're trying to do is create a character for each person that they could see as themselves instead of just this guy I made.

But even then, you're relying on the judgment of your friends, which can be susceptible. Back in high school, my friends and I were inexperienced - meaning we'd be likely to misjudge a stat. If you had a range of ages, it might be different.

Also, check out the edit to my previous post.

[Sigreid]

But even then, you're relying on the judgment of your friends, which can be susceptible. Back in high school, my friends and I were inexperienced - meaning we'd be likely to misjudge a stat. If you had a range of ages, it might be different.

Also, check out the edit to my previous post.

Not arguing that the estimates are going to be accurate, thought I was pretty clear on that. It's really only a tool to help the character "feel" like you to everyone playing. If it doesn't appeal you can use any stat generation method and just play it off as the dimensional hop to D&D land transformed you. Heck, have fun with it and have the party start at a carnival and get on the D&D roller coaster if stealing the cartoon's start appeals to you. :smallsmile:

[mgshamster]

Not arguing that the estimates are going to be accurate, thought I was pretty clear on that. It's really only a tool to help the character "feel" like you to everyone playing. If it doesn't appeal you can use any stat generation method and just play it off as the dimensional hop to D&D land transformed you. Heck, have fun with it and have the party start at a carnival and get on the D&D roller coaster if stealing the cartoon's start appeals to you. :smallsmile:

Fair (faire?) and I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong. I was more trying to add on to what you were saying.

In my opinion, the best route is to have you and your friends try to figure out the order of your stats (high to low) and then use an array. Makes it more accurate, more fun, and reduces hurt feelings. It's better to say, "I think you're wiser than you are dexterous" than it is to say "I think you have a 9 dex." Unless, of course, someone is particularly weak and you say, "I think you're stronger than you are smart." That's just mean.

[DiceDiceBaby]

Wow, there are a lot of great posts that really help me put the "Self-Insert" campaign into perspective, and for this, I'd like to thank everyone. :smallwink:

I'll be replying to individual posts later on. A bit busy at the moment, but I feel the need to step in for a bit.

To clarify: this is not a thought experiment to see if a team of relatively ordinary, modern-day people would survive the middle ages (though there have been countless time-travel forums and threads to debate this). Many of the pitfalls already mentioned by the users here are things I have been made familiar with before, particularly the ones about diseases, food and cultures. I'm aware of them, and my solution was to handwave them off with magic. This is a game, not some hypothetical scenario to discover the "truth". It's meant to be fun.

Besides, when they level up in their chosen classes, they'll become different characters than what they started with. Who they are now, in the real world, is their level 1 (and even then, not really). Their level 20 will be something else. Reality is the base, but it's not the end goal. The characters are meant to grow differently in the fantasy world, not depend on it.

This is my attempt to set up a semi-reality-based D&D Campaign in which the characters begin as plain, non-variant Humans (no darkvision, no tricks, just stats and re-fluffed languages) who pick classes and backgrounds closest to their real-life selves, with beefed up stats (and the underlying implication that transporting them to the D&D world has altered their mind and body to enhance their capabilities and adapt them to the new world) and modern-day equipment. This was meant to mitigate any unfortunate consequences of the "reality" of the situation and make it a D&D campaign with a twist.

So while I realize that culture shock, lack of language skills, lack of knowledge of this strange world, lack of nutricious food, potentially carrying diseases, and psychological issues with coping would all be legitimate concerns in a seriously debated time-travel scenario, this is... not a time-travel scenario. The chaos magic that transports the PCs to the low-fantasy medieval D&D world is supposed to give the DM enough means to handwave these things for the sake of storytelling and celebrating the qualities of the PCs.

If I really wanted to murder my party with real-life, I'd kill them by making my fantasy campaigns realistic. This is the opposite; I want to bring life to my party by allowing this campaign, based on reality, to become fantastic.

I don't know if that makes sense, to be honest. :smalltongue:

Do I really need to specifically list all of the handwaves and assumptions of reality so we can throw them out the window? This is the kind of campaign I'd likely run with a group of close friends who have known each other a long time and who would enjoy such a scenario; it was never meant for a group of people who will debate about how "realistic" something is while playing a game about slaying dragons. :smallbiggrin:

Surely you don't spend time arguing with your players about your PCs and NPCs going to the washroom while you're campaigning?


Mind if I turn this thread into a fun thought game?

Sure! I'm curious to see how people would rate and equip themselves using the rules I set up. I'd consider it "soft-playtesting". :smallwink:

For the record, I'd like to point out that, according to my original rules, everyone's class and background will vary from group to group. But feel free to rate yourselves according to your own standards (though that kind of goes against the group mentality that pervades the scenario I set out).

For example, in real life, I'm a European living in an Asian country. In my home country, we have required military service (which I took). In my Asian playgroup, where the citizens here don't have military service, and under my rules, I'd be able to try and convince them to let me play as a Fighter with the Soldier background, carrying a bullpup rifle with cleaning materials and some ammunition into the fantasy world. My Asian friends who are my colleagues here in the university are already excited with the idea; they'd surely let me do this (because I presented this possibility to them, and they seemed thrilled; that's why I went to GITP to get feedback).

If I were to set up the same campaign back in Europe, however, I wouldn't be able to justify being a Fighter with a Soldier background (because men going to the military there, while quite not uncommon, is not a rarity worthy to put as a class; I'd save that for a professional soldier). I'd probably be a Wizard with a Sage background, since I currently work, as mentioned, at a university here in Asia (in a position I would probably never get an equivalent in my home country, with my field of study and the education standards there being that much higher and much harder to acquire without a PhD).

Which is why I decided that the terms would be flexible, that the players can contest each other, and that what you are with one playgroup would be variable in another playgroup. The most tedious part would be the character creation process (as it is with most D&D campaigns, in my experience), but after they are decided with their party and transported in the fantasy world, what they want to do there is their call.

Or maybe I'm going about this the wrong way, and a campaign based on "reality" is a much better idea? But then I'd have to invest a lifetime's worth of knowledge in physical sciences, social sciences, and humanities to even begin playing God at that level. I'd much rather keep these things simple, you know?

[PeteNutButter]

For the record, I'd like to point out that, according to my original rules, everyone's class and background will vary from group to group. But feel free to rate yourselves according to your own standards (though that kind of goes against the group mentality that pervades the scenario I set out).

For example, in real life, I'm a European living in an Asian country. In my home country, we have required military service (which I took). In my Asian playgroup, where the citizens here don't have military service, and under my rules, I'd be able to try and convince them to let me play as a Fighter with the Soldier background, carrying a bullpup rifle with cleaning materials and some ammunition into the fantasy world. My Asian friends who are my colleagues here in the university are already excited with the idea; they'd surely let me do this (because I presented this possibility to them, and they seemed thrilled; that's why I went to GITP to get feedback).

If I were to set up the same campaign back in Europe, however, I wouldn't be able to justify being a Fighter with a Soldier background (because men going to the military there, while quite not uncommon, is not a rarity worthy to put as a class; I'd save that for a professional soldier). I'd probably be a Wizard with a Sage background, since I currently work, as mentioned, at a university here in Asia (in a position I would probably never get an equivalent in my home country, with my field of study and the education standards there being that much higher and much harder to acquire without a PhD).

Which is why I decided that the terms would be flexible, that the players can contest each other, and that what you are with one playgroup would be variable in another playgroup. The most tedious part would be the character creation process (as it is with most D&D campaigns, in my experience), but after they are decided with their party and transported in the fantasy world, what they want to do there is their call.

Or maybe I'm going about this the wrong way, and a campaign based on "reality" is a much better idea? But then I'd have to invest a lifetime's worth of knowledge in physical sciences, social sciences, and humanities to even begin playing God at that level. I'd much rather keep these things simple, you know?

Useful insight, but I think it really depends on where the bar is. For instance someone might think they have an 18 in something because they are better than all their friends, but I'd say 18 is near the best in the world. You'll have humble players who acknowledging that would give themselves a bunch of 10 to 12s or maybe a single 14, and players who are cocky suns-a-bitches and say they deserve 18s. It's very important to bridge that gap.

When we did this, when my DM just chose the stats of people, it naturally got a little heated at first and one player stepped out. I was younger at the time, and recall being quite annoyed that the physically inept nerd got a higher int than me, despite me strongly believing he was not "smarter" than me. The DM did it in an attempt to balance the PCs, but no matter what he did someone was always offended. Like I said... very bad idea.

But I'll reiterate that replacing all their stats with crazy high ones will not make them feel like they are playing themselves. I suggested point buy, but do people have other ideas?

[Kurald Galain]

For instance someone might think they have an 18 in something because they are better than all their friends, but I'd say 18 is near the best in the world.
Using 4d6-drop-lowest, there would be 112 million people with an 18 in any specific stat. The odds are pretty good that you know some of them.

Using strictly 3d6, that would still be 32 million people. Either way, it's more than enough to assign every moderately successful politician or performer in the world an 18 charisma, or to claim that every sportsman competing at a state level or higher has an 18 strength or dexterity.

That's what you get for dividing all of humanity into sixteen categories (3 thru 18): the top category is still going to be pretty big.

[PeteNutButter]

Using 4d6-drop-lowest, there would be 112 million people with an 18 in any specific stat. The odds are pretty good that you know some of them.

Using strictly 3d6, that would still be 32 million people. Either way, it's more than enough to assign every moderately successful politician or performer in the world an 18 charisma, or to claim that every sportsman competing at a state level or higher has an 18 strength or dexterity.

That's what you get for dividing all of humanity into sixteen categories (3 thru 18): the top category is still going to be pretty big.

A typical commoner in D&D doesn't roll his stats, he just gets all 10s. Only "adventurers" roll stats, because they are special even at lvl one.

[Kurald Galain]

A typical commoner in D&D doesn't roll his stats, he just gets all 10s. Only "adventurers" roll stats, because they are special even at lvl one.

And so? We're talking about adventurers here. Yes, if you stat your college buddies out as adventurers, it is likely that several of them will have an 18 stat somewhere.

And that fits the OP's goal. Unless you want to suggest to him that everyone in his campaign should get no class, no skills, and no scores above 10? Gee, that's gonna be an interesting campaign then :smallbiggrin:

[ravenkith]

Rating your own attributes is highly susceptible to the Dunning-Kruger effect. It's probably thing biggest down-side.

Back in 2e, since it used to have actually weight lifting attributes, we used to try to figure out our strength stat by lifting weights. Then we'd figure out our DEX stat by throwing darts on a dart board or billards balls into a target on the lawn. Con was determined by how often we got sick. Mental stats were the hardest, and we'd try to judge ourselves and each other honestly - but let's be real here, Dunning-Kruger takes a strong effect. I noticed that my smarter friends tend to rate themselves lower than I'd rate them, and my dumber friends rate themselves much higher than I'd rate them.

Edit; having pre-set array is actually really useful. All you have to do is figure out the order of your attributes, low to high, then assign the pre-set stats as appropriate. It's much easier to say "my intelligence is probably higher than my strength" than it is to figure out exactly what the score would be.

Regarding mental stats:

I seem to recall back in 2e as well, actually, now that you menton it, that a good rule of thumb as far as intelligence was concerned was IQ scores, rounded up to the nearest point...

so a 200 IQ is a 20, whereas a 144 IQ becomes a 15, kind of deal.

As far as the other ones, I've only got homebrew suggestions on that.

Wisdom is of course, only measureable in relation to how much stupid and reckless **** you've done. It also (per the rules) ties into faith. So I guess, if someone's cautious and careful, they've probably got a high wisdom. Reckless and thrill-seeking? Low wisdom. If they have a strong personal faith? High wisdom. No personal faith? Low, of course (in terms of in universe). So if you jump out of planes and off of bridges for a good time, and don't believe in a god, (for the purposes of assigning the stat called wisdom in a roleplaying game) then that's probably an 8 or nine, for instance. If you go to Church every sunday and don't have a single speeding ticket to your name, you're probably hitting close to 20. If you do a lot of pot (which is against the law and can cost you your job, so it's pretty reckless), for the purposes of the game, that'd be a negative factor when it comes to evaluating wisdom.

Charisma is straight up popularity and manipulation related, and ties into how outgoing you are. Popularity can, in part, be measured by the number of friends you have, whether or not you run a successful blog, or lead a company, etc. Manipulation is of course, successful sales people, motivational speakers and the like. So, Tony Robbins Billy Mays, or Joel Osteen would be examples of people with high charisma, whereas only people we've never heard of would be considered low charisma. Strangely, and counter to what I've discussed already, although bums are usually unattractive in appearance, they are high charisma, because their LIFE revolves around selling people on the idea that people should give them money. I guess this highlights the difference between popularity and manipulation-type uses of charisma....

I don't know, I'm making this up as I go along here. :D

[mgshamster]

But I'll reiterate that replacing all their stats with crazy high ones will not make them feel like they are playing themselves. I suggested point buy, but do people have other ideas?

Have then determine the order of their stats, from low to high.

1) For me, it would be con, dex, cha, str, int, wis

I think. Maybe. I don't know what numbers I would have, but I think that would be the order of my stats from low to high. I could even ask my friends for assistance.

2) Then handwave it with magic: "As your soul and personality are transported to the fantasy world or Faerun, the chaotic magic changes you slightly."

3) Give them an array (eg 10,11,12,14,15,16) and assign them low to high based on Step 1.

This would put my stats at Str 14, Dex 11, Con 10, Int 15, Wis 16, Cha 12.

That feels right for me.

If we want to play something a bit more heroic, we could use OP's array of 13-18, so that puts me at Str 16, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 17, Wis 18, Cha 15. That's a too high for me, I think, but it would still be my personality, my skills, my background, etc... It's just an enhanced version of me.

[ravenkith]

Using 4d6-drop-lowest, there would be 112 million people with an 18 in any specific stat. The odds are pretty good that you know some of them.

Using strictly 3d6, that would still be 32 million people. Either way, it's more than enough to assign every moderately successful politician or performer in the world an 18 charisma, or to claim that every sportsman competing at a state level or higher has an 18 strength or dexterity.

That's what you get for dividing all of humanity into sixteen categories (3 thru 18): the top category is still going to be pretty big.

Um, no, sorry, I think your math is off a bit. 32 million people is about 10% of the population of the United States. The combined population of athletes (soccer/football/basketball/cricket/rugby/hockey/swimmers/divers/fencers/etc/etc), politicians (anybody elected or actively ruling a country) performers (actors/singers/mimes/preachers/motivational speakers/whatever) worldwide is probably many times that number. Hell there are probably 32 million athletes in China alone.

Just sayin'.

[Kurald Galain]

I seem to recall back in 2e as well, actually, now that you menton it, that a good rule of thumb as far as intelligence was concerned was IQ scores, rounded up to the nearest point...
Almost. The rule of thumb is (int score * 5) + 50; or conversely, intelligence score = (IQ - 50) / 5. This means that yes, if you know any MENSA members, they all have a 17 or higher intelligence, because that's precisely what their admission criteria are.

Off the top of my head, among my former college and high school classmates, I can count two national-level athletes, two musicians with a publishing deal, four PhD graduates, a master-level chess player, and an ordained priest. If you've studied at a big university and think about the people you know from there, you'll probably match that. Now most of these aren't roleplayers, but if they were making a character based on themselves, I'll give them that 18 in a heartbeat.

[mgshamster]

Regarding mental stats:

I seem to recall back in 2e as well, actually, now that you menton it, that a good rule of thumb as far as intelligence was concerned was IQ scores, rounded up to the nearest point...

so a 200 IQ is a 20, whereas a 144 IQ becomes a 15, kind of deal.

As far as the other ones, I've only got homebrew suggestions on that.

Wisdom is of course, only measureable in relation to how much stupid and reckless **** you've done. It also (per the rules) ties into faith. So I guess, if someone's cautious and careful, they've probably got a high wisdom. Reckless and thrill-seeking? Low wisdom. If they have a strong personal faith? High wisdom. No personal faith? Low, of course (in terms of in universe). So if you jump out of planes and off of bridges for a good time, and don't believe in a god, (for the purposes of assigning the stat called wisdom in a roleplaying game) then that's probably an 8 or nine, for instance. If you go to Church every sunday and don't have a single speeding ticket to your name, you're probably hitting close to 20. If you do a lot of pot (which is against the law and can cost you your job, so it's pretty reckless), for the purposes of the game, that'd be a negative factor when it comes to evaluating wisdom.

Charisma is straight up popularity and manipulation related, and ties into how outgoing you are. Popularity can, in part, be measured by the number of friends you have, whether or not you run a successful blog, or lead a company, etc. Manipulation is of course, successful sales people, motivational speakers and the like. So, Tony Robbins Billy Mays, or Joel Osteen would be examples of people with high charisma, whereas only people we've never heard of would be considered low charisma. Strangely, and counter to what I've discussed already, although bums are usually unattractive in appearance, they are high charisma, because their LIFE revolves around selling people on the idea that people should give them money. I guess this highlights the difference between popularity and manipulation-type uses of charisma....

I don't know, I'm making this up as I go along here. :D

I like your insight. An IQ test *could* be translatable. Maybe an EQ test for wisdom?

One thing D&D has never taken in to account is how people change over time, and that change can be drastic.

For example, back when I was in the army, I was very fit. But I haven't kept up with my physical fitness in the past decade, so my physical stats have diminished. I've also been diagnosed with PTSD from the war, and it comes out in the form of anti-socialism. I used to be a social butterfly; I went to all the parties, I had tons of friends from all walks of life (I used to be described as the person who could make friends with anyone) - now, I barely want to see my closest friends or family. The only non-work social interaction I have is my weekly D&D game. (It's taken me years to recognize this and recognize the cause of it). So my charisma score has dropped, too. Probably also my inteligence score, because long term war induced PTSD simulates consistent battle-field stress, which diminishes the ability to critically think.

But we ignore all that because it takes away from the fun of the game. Are you disabled in real life? Not anymore, as the magic transports your soul/life essence/mind/whatever in to a new body that looks like you but potentially has better ability scores.

[Kurald Galain]

Um, no, sorry, I think your math is off a bit. 32 million people is about 10% of the population of the United States.
World population is 7000 million. Odds of getting an 18 strength are 1/216 on 3d6. So divide 7000 by 216 and what do you get?

Note that I said state-level athletes, not just anyone who's on a minor hockey team.

[Sigreid]

Fair (faire?) and I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong. I was more trying to add on to what you were saying.

In my opinion, the best route is to have you and your friends try to figure out the order of your stats (high to low) and then use an array. Makes it more accurate, more fun, and reduces hurt feelings. It's better to say, "I think you're wiser than you are dexterous" than it is to say "I think you have a 9 dex." Unless, of course, someone is particularly weak and you say, "I think you're stronger than you are smart." That's just mean.

No worries, I just sometimes am not sure I'm clear with what I'm trying to get across.

Nobody wants to be the guy that everyone says "I think you'd show up as a goblin?" :smallbiggrin:

[ravenkith]

Have then determine the order of their stats, from low to high.

1) For me, it would be con, dex, cha, str, int, wis

I think. Maybe. I don't know what numbers I would have, but I think that would be the order of my stats from low to high. I could even ask my friends for assistance.

2) Then handwave it with magic: "As your soul and personality are transported to the fantasy world or Faerun, the chaotic magic changes you slightly."

3) Give them an array (eg 10,11,12,14,15,16) and assign them low to high based on Step 1.

This would put my stats at Str 14, Dex 11, Con 10, Int 15, Wis 16, Cha 12.

That feels right for me.

If we want to play something a bit more heroic, we could use OP's array of 13-18, so that puts me at Str 16, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 17, Wis 18, Cha 15. That's a too high for me, I think, but it would still be my personality, my skills, my background, etc... It's just an enhanced version of me.

This seems like it might work; For me personally, I would think that my stats probably go: Int Wis Con Dex Cha Str. If i'm honest, at the peak of my mental capacity and focus, I could probably hit a 160 IQ (I have hit 150 before, without prep, so I'm not pulling this number out of my butt - just sayin'.)

This would leave me with an array of STR 11, DEX 13, CON 14, INT 16, WIS 15, CHA 12.

Looking at it now, That's probably pretty close to how I'd describe myself if I was being honest. I'm a pretty big fella and have done some weightlifting, have rarely been sick in my life with anything more than allergies (at least until recently), and have been known to throw ninja stars, darts and shoot bows and guns at least semi-accurately. I make my living doing research and compiling reports, have a personal sense of faith and avoid reckless things (but have still gotten my fair share of traffic tickets, and have a small, but loyal, circle of friends.

[ravenkith]

World population is 7000 million. Odds of getting an 18 strength are 1/216 on 3d6. So divide 7000 by 216 and what do you get?

Note that I said state-level athletes, not just anyone who's on a minor hockey team.

Ummm.....

I competed at the state level as a youth in soccer, and I'm not sure if I just sucked at soccer, or the rest of my team was that good; My whole job was to go in, hatchet job their leading scorer, then get ejected. Sad, but true.

:smallsigh:

[Reverse]

Regular folks get magically transported to the land of Dungeons & Dragons?
Sounds good.
Word of advice, no matter how tempting it seems to give them a pet baby unicorn as an endless plot device, don't, it will slowly drive you crazy.

[ZenBear]

Another angle to consider: instead of basing things solely on how you are right now , consider if you were given the opportunity to train into a class. What would you be interested in/willing to put yourself through? Would you dive into tomes of esoteric lore to become a Wizard? Train your body day and night to become a Monk, Fighter or Rogue? Strike a deal with a devil, fey or other entity to become a Warlock?

[ravenkith]

Another angle to consider: instead of basing things solely on how you are right now , consider if you were given the opportunity to train into a class. What would you be interested in/willing to put yourself through? Would you dive into tomes of esoteric lore to become a Wizard? Train your body day and night to become a Monk, Fighter or Rogue? Strike a deal with a devil, fey or other entity to become a Warlock?

If people knew the gods were real, and that hell was real, through the evidence of their own eyes, and knowing that after death they have to go to one or the other, what thinking being signs up for hell?

Seriously, there would be, like, NO warlocks. Ever.

That said, I'd want either Wizard, sorceror, cleric or druid, in that order. Despite it being mad,I'd probably be a multiclass monk/wizard or barbarian/wizard, depending which I was actually better at. Given my martial arts history, where I stopped one short of a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and held a mid-ranked belt in Karate, I suspect it would end up monk.

Although, while no metal is a drawback (and totally dumb, makes no sense in this edition), the idea of being able to shift into animal form via wildshape, (just for the experience of it) sounds awesome.

[Kurald Galain]

If people knew the gods were real, and that hell was real, through the evidence of their own eyes, and knowing that after death they have to go to one or the other, what thinking being signs up for hell?

More people than you'd think. Christopher Marlowe wrote a book about that :smallbiggrin:

[DiceDiceBaby]

Alright, it's Sunday, and I finally have time to reply to all of the helpful content you proposed! I think I have a better idea of how to go about this now. :smallsmile:

But before I run down the comments, I'd like to point out: many of you seem to be focused on the classes and backgrounds (understandable, given the need for balance), but the one thing I was truly worried about was the equipment. Surely the ability to bring up to 10 modern items into a low-medieval fantasy world should have some repercussions? What would you bring? What could other PCs bring that could totally abuse the campaign (perhaps change the tech level of the world as they know it, if they fell into the wrong hands)?

Just something to think about. For now, the replies!


All in all, I like what you propose.

Ability scores are well managed, if not a bit high (but that might be ok). Personally, I'd drop each one by two.

Classes are a bit different, though - maybe those should be the same as ability scores. A lot of modern day careers don't translate to D&D classes (most of us would be NPCs). Therefore, it may be better to arbitrarily assign classes to people (either randomly or have the player choose what class they would want to be based on personality rather than skill). Personally, I disagree with setting up classes for party balance - I find same-class parties to be very interesting, and people should play what they want. If everyone wanted the wizard, then that's what they would have to deal with if they all got transplanted into the game.

From there, their own experiences and careers in life could be reflected in their background, much like you suggest. Just out of curiousity, how do we deal with people who have very diverse backgrounds? Someone who is a subject area expert in multiple fields?

Thanks for the complements! Given the other comments of the thread, I'm thinking of lowering the initial array I gave out (to 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11), still high enough to be interestingly above average (remember they also get +1s across the board for being Non-Variant Humans, making the lowest stat a 12), but low enough to pose a challenge. Party diversity was a big thing for me, as I didn't want people arguing over who would be the be "best" Wizard if all of them were Wizards, but okay, maybe we can drop the rule of "one class each", or that perhaps the DM can waive it at his or her discretion (I wouldn't, but then, it may not be everyone's cup of tea).

Lastly, I'd ask polymaths and people with varied skill sets to either 1) choose whatever class they'd like and defend themselves any contestation for it according to the rules or 2) choose to be either a Rogue (skill master with a wide skill pool and limited expertise) or a Bard (skill master with an even wider skill pool, but no specialties).


Here's hoping you have a very interesting group of players from all walks of life or you're just gonna end up with a bunch of nerds shouting at each other over who gets to be the wizard.

This is why I'd like to experiment with a group of close friends first, before allowing people I don't know very well to participate. I can't account for the skill sets of people I don't know, but if they're game to show off their CV and Resume, then why not? :smallbiggrin:


I think adding a line about: "If you can't agree amongst yourselves who should get a particular class or background, simple have each player roll a d20. The player with the highest number wins, and can take the preferred class. If a tie results, simply roll again until there is a clear winner."

That said, you are putting a LOT of faith in your players to be upstanding.

For the record though, pretty much anyone from modern times (regardless of their individual training), is pretty much dead within a week of being placed in a medieval type universe.

I like this idea. Rolling for a random class is really good way to settle things fairly (CHAOS IS FAIR!), if the mob is unruly and they fight over classes using the original rules.

For the record, I designed this with my close friends in mind; I might yet need to develop it into something DMs around the world would like to use to encourage diverse random playgroups and introduce them to D&D. At least, that's a goal I'd like to see come to fruition one day.

And finally, thank you for all your great comments regarding reality! They really put a lot of pitfalls of other self-insert campaigns into perspective, and are precisely those which I want to avoid, so being reminded of them helps me out a lot.


Raven I disagree with you. Humans have been a very adaptive race. Yes a lot of people will turn out like you say. But we still have that survival instinct and the brain capacity to know that we are going to have to change our ways if we want to survive. You also got to think about we have a lot more basic knowledge than people would of that time. And surviving wouldn't really be that hard there is a lot of people who have skills that can be very usefull. A lot of people go hunting and fishing. People have basic farming skills with them keeping gardens. I don't know about other people but I work on a farm from sun up to sun down 7 days a week I have spent have a year just working on a boat out at sea with no form of entertainment out the a couple of books. Now I would agree that most of the higher standard living country's the people would not be able to make it but the numbers would surprise you. Just because of the will to survive.

Even the PHB points out that humans are the most flexible and adaptable of races... which is why I also insist that no one in this campaign starts out as a different race other than the inifitely flexible, if bland, non-Variant human (in D&D terms, I fully believe I would be a Half-Elf, but that's another story!).


I agree with Cryosin. Humans are far more adaptable than Raven credits, and the advantages of a modern upbringing are significant. Grade school understanding of English, math and science puts you leagues ahead of the vast majority of the population, and as long as you can find your way to a populated area with a common language (assumed in this case) anyone with half a brain could strike a deal to work for room and board. The smart ones will quickly pick up on the societal norms and find their way into a fortune through invention, mercantilism or straight BSing.

If I were to run this game, I would completely ignore the heterogeneous party rule. The players pick the class and background that best fits their identity, and if that means a party of 5 Rogues then that's just the way it is.

In fact, I am relying on their knowledge of social sciences of management and business to be able to make a living out of the lives of folk who would believe that any amount of technology they brought would be "magic".

Also, that's two votes against the heterogeneous party rule. Maybe I'll make it optional. I just seem to foresee a lot of conflicts that may happen if everyone is the same class...


Mind if I turn this thread into a fun thought game?

What do you think your class and background would be based on your current life skills and personality? Do you think it would be different than what you would want to be (ie do your current skills not match up with your desired skills as an adventurer?)

Like I mentioned in my first reply to everyone, I don't mind if people want to use my rules to make characters out of themselves and post it here (and I'm very happy that some of you did!), but to add to your questions: What equipment would you bring into this fantasy world, given the rules on equipment in the OP?


It seems like some classes would be impossible to qualify for. Sorcerers and Warlocks in particular.

That said, lets have some fun listing possible real life backgrounds and personal interests that might qualify you for each class. :) Some might restrict you to certain sub-classes of course.

Barbarian:
Reputation for irrational temper.
Member of an ancestor or spiritual worshiping religion. (Shinto?)

Bard:
Musician, poet, actor or other performer.
Certain college degrees (English, Liberal Arts)

Cleric:
Actual seminary studies
Registered Priest (Universal Life Church?)
Philosophy Major

Druid:
Pet trainer or gardener or other trained professional
Hippie or hard-core environmentalist

Fighter:
Actually trained in use of any weapon, including archery

Monk:
Trained martial artist

Paladin:
See both Fighter and Cleric above
Natural crusader personality

Ranger:
See both Fighter and Druid above
Avid hiker, rock-climber, or outdoorsman
crazy cat lady (or other person that owns too many pets)

Rogue:
Reputation as a Liar and a cheat
Trained acrobat or (more likely) gymnast

Sorcerer:
Reputation for being naturally talented at whatever you do? (I'm stuck on this one)

Warlock:
Conspiracy theorist believer
Cult leader I'm guessing that's pretty unlikely ;) so ...
MBA degree or job in Marketing :p

Wizard:
Any STEM Bachelors or higher degree

Thanks for this! In my next post, I think I'll compile a list of professions and fields of study in real life that would fit the D&D world, and the classes and backgrounds I'd associate with them. :smallwink:

Also, I stand by the idea Sorcerers are the least likely class to be chosen in reality (which is why my original rules make it very hard to become a Sorcerer; it's literally a last resort left to the DM and handwaived by magic), but Warlocks are far more common in real life than people care to admit. My wife pointed this out: the things that defines Warlocks are the relationships they have with their patrons and in other cultures (like the Asian one I live in now), patrons are not uncommon, be they relatives, sponsors, or even employers. Anyone with a strong connection or relationship to which they are dependent to a fault (compare the Oath for Paladins, the Deity for Clerics, etc.), could be a Warlock in D&D (subsituting whatever they are dependent on with a mystical patron instead). But I like the idea of conspiracy theorists and (mentioned later on), those who believe in aliens, faeries, etc. instead of the more mainstream religions (added by mgshamster!).


Going back to the OP. I did one of these once and the DM basically decided our attributes. I wouldn't recommend that but inflating the scores like you suggest kind of takes away the point of playing yourself. If you are naturally clumsy but your dex got inflated to 15 are you really playing yourself anymore or just another DnD character with an uninventive name?

I'd say point buy so it's still fair, but ask them to be as close to honest as possible. I.e. discourage the drug addict hippie from boosting his wisdom to 15 so he can be a better Druid. All said and done you will not have optimal stats and it will make your players feel weak and add to the realism of how ****ed they really are.

It was a fun challenge trying to overcome our own shortcomings. For instance our monk who was an expert martial artist didn't have much wisdom because we all know he is famously bad with impulse control. His lower AC forced him to play smart so he didn't die, especially since he was playing himself.

Thank you for sharing your experience! It is my hope that the players will still ultimately try to play themselves, more than use their stats. But that reflects in the gameplay later on; for now, I'm trying to set the ground rules.


I just skimmed so forgive me if this has been brought up already. My most successful "Self Insert" campaign was one in which the players souls got transferred and they where in new bodies, this helps immeasurably with stats.

It wasn't brought up, but now that you mention it, it should be made more explicit that the bodies they will be in are buffed up versions of their own. Thanks for that!


+1
It actually makes sense for a doctor to have sneak attack, as he would know where to inflict damage.

I agree! This is why I mentioned, in another thread more recently, that Medicine skill roles have immense value in striking weak points or mixing poisions (thus, offensive uses). :smallwink:


Edit; having pre-set array is actually really useful. All you have to do is figure out the order of your attributes, low to high, then assign the pre-set stats as appropriate. It's much easier to say "my intelligence is probably higher than my strength" than it is to figure out exactly what the score would be.

This is ideal, and what I would encourage people to do at my table. :smallwink:


But we ignore all that because it takes away from the fun of the game. Are you disabled in real life? Not anymore, as the magic transports your soul/life essence/mind/whatever in to a new body that looks like you but potentially has better ability scores.

This is also a reason why I chose to have a set array; so those who are injured or who cannot walk, etc. could have a fair shot at this campaign.


Regular folks get magically transported to the land of Dungeons & Dragons?
Sounds good.
Word of advice, no matter how tempting it seems to give them a pet baby unicorn as an endless plot device, don't, it will slowly drive you crazy.

Noted! Will also avoid suggesting to the pary any such playing with things they shouldn't be playing with. :smallcool:


Another angle to consider: instead of basing things solely on how you are right now , consider if you were given the opportunity to train into a class. What would you be interested in/willing to put yourself through? Would you dive into tomes of esoteric lore to become a Wizard? Train your body day and night to become a Monk, Fighter or Rogue? Strike a deal with a devil, fey or other entity to become a Warlock?

Haven't considered this! Perhaps that's a better way to encourage them to pick classes they are suited for, because if they do make it past level 1, they'd have to try and get to 20 with all that training. :smallsmile:

On a side note, what if I ask them all to begin at level 2, and allow them to multiclass, if they so desire? Gives them more options and buffs them up in a more fantastic manner, and also allows more people picking the classes they'd prefer (so long as they don't pick the same combination, which I deem totally unlikely to happen in a playgroup of four to six).


More people than you'd think. Christopher Marlowe wrote a book about that :smallbiggrin:

Plus, like I mentioned earlier in this post, if the definition of Warlock means "dependent on a patron", then we can do to Warlocks what we did to every other class in the thread thus far, make mundane things into fantasy equivalents.

So on my to do list for next post:

1) Read up on your equipment choices and make rules to regulate them if necessary.
2) List the classes and backgrounds in the PHB and give examples of professions or fields of study as suggestions for them.
3) Post an updated rules primer (if people are interested in running this campaign using the template)

Thanks again for all the feedback so far! Looking forward to reading everyone's suggestions for the next bits. :smallbiggrin:

[Kurald Galain]

Plus, like I mentioned earlier in this post, if the definition of Warlock means "dependent on a patron", then we can do to Warlocks what we did to every other class in the thread thus far, make mundane things into fantasy equivalents.

Meaning you can be a warlock of the "Evil Corporation" scholarship bloodline :smallcool:

[Dimcair]

Best use my M.A. will ever see =(

[MrConsideration]

Charisma - 16 I'm a big character. I work with difficult teenagers and inspire them to succeed.
Intelligence - 16 I'm a straight A student with a first-class degree and a half-complete MA to finish off in a few years.
Strength - 14 I weight-train for 6-8 hours a week at the gym.
Dexterity - 8 I'm fairly clumsy, I suppose.
Wisdom - 10. I wouldn't say I'm more perceptive and wise than the average Joe.
Constitution - 10. I get ill as much as the next man.


I think my career (History Teacher) maps strongest on to Bard as a class - but a Bard whose instrument is his voice.
Having said that my singing is woeful.

Trained skills: History, Arcana, Persuasion. I'm your group's skill-monkey.

[mgshamster]

F. Equipment, Armor, Weapons, Tools and Gold

After each Player selects their class and background, they are to make a list of ten (or less) real-life items that they will bring along with them to the fantasy world. These ten items will be your equipment and tools for the beginning of the Campaign, and replace the ones you would normally get from your class and background. The total weight of these items should not exceed 40 lbs. (ca. 90 kilograms), and does not include food, vehicles, or other such forbidden items. Because of the weight restriction, each of these items should be items that can be individually carried or held with one hand.

For ammunition, writing materials, or other small, loose objects necessary for certain classes, such as in the case of ranged weapons, or for Players who need to write things down or create art, one fully loaded cartridge, magazine, quiver, pencil case or art set counts as one item for the sake of simplicity, like the usual packs in D&D.

Players can bring clothes, and each full body set of clothing counts as one item. Clothing considered as armor count as one item each. Players cannot bring food, vehicles (such as skateboards), nor mobility clothing (such as rollerblades or skates). You all start with 30 GP in your pockets regardless of class and background (you don’t get any items from your class or background), but your pockets have otherwise been emptied, so any small items in your pockets or on your person are not with you unless you included them in the list of ten items separately.

The items you are allowed to bring must fall into one or more of the following categories:

Items you actually possess. You can bring any items that you actually possess in real life. For classes with familiars or beast companions, you may bring your pet as an item, but this is not advised. Note that just because you have any particular item doesn’t mean you have the proficiency to use it. Because the world is set in a medieval low-fantasy setting, bringing electronic gadgets is not advised and bringing firearms without the means or knowledge of how to create more ammunition may be problematic when you run out of later on, though, depending on the DM and the abilities of your party members, you might find a solution to these problems using actual science, engineering, and metallurgy.

Items you routinely use or carry. Certain professions in real life require equipment that stays in the workplace and otherwise cannot or should not be brought home. These are items you could justify as those you routinely carry. Whether these are items in your purse all the time, or items you only use in your office, these items are things you interact with on an almost daily basis, and are fair game to be brought with you to the fantasy world.

Items you are actually trained to use. For one reason or another, you may be trained to use certain weapons, instruments, or other materials but may not actually own them yourself or are currently in short supply. You are allowed to bring these with you to the Campaign, and are assumed to have proficiency in them, including the knowledge of how to maintain, operate, and use them properly and responsibly.

Player A has a bachelor’s degree in Engineering, and wishes to bring her undergraduate textbook, thinking that knowledge of real-life science would allow her to develop technologies that would otherwise be unavailable in a medieval setting. Player B, who is a Chemist by profession, chooses to bring a chemistry textbook he can understand, but doesn’t currently own, with the same plan in her mind. Player C, who is hobby musician, decides to bring his accordion with him, hoping this strange instrument will assist him and win over audiences by being exotic to the fantasy world, even if he cannot play it properly. Player D is trained as a classical violinist, but doesn’t currently have one, yet decides to add this as her instrument to her equipment list. Player E is a construction worker by profession, and decides to bring his hard hat to the fantasy world, because it is something he routinely uses at his workplace. In all these cases, it can be reasonably assumed that the Players either have or possess the items they want to bring, use these items on routine basis, or are actually capable of using them, so unless they contest each other on the matter, they should all be allowed to bring these items with them.

Cautionary example: It is one thing to own a firearm, for example, but it’s another thing to be a trained marksman who knows how the weapon works and how to clean it properly. Since this is a campaign somewhat tied to reality, the knowledge of what to do if a rifle jams, how to prevent it from succumbing into rust, and how to fire with it without hitting a party member can make a huge difference in survival. This is why choosing classes, backgrounds and equipment are not matters to be taken lightly; an intelligent DM can make sure that a healthy dose of reality will dampen your odds.


I like these rules. My own list would heavily depend on two questions: Do we know where we are going (i.e. The 5e game world) and how much time do we have to prepare?

If we knew where we were going and had time to prepare, I'd create a list of the following:
•D&D PHB and MM (handy reference to all monsters, spells)
•Backpacking Backpack (light weight, durable, water resistant
•Waterproof bag
•100' Coil of nylon rope
•Clothing: Several pairs of wool socks and undergarments, Sturdy pair of boots, Gore-Tex jacket and pants, normal pants, shirt, and a light sweater
•AR15 plus ammo and cleaning kit
•Book on practical chemistry that included how to make gunpowder
•Ammo reloading equipment
•First Aid kit

If I had room, I'd also throw in my camping cooking equipment and utensils, as well as my light weight two man tent. Unfortunately, my experience with chemistry requires an advancement in technology that wouldn't exist in a D&D world. Pure chemicals, electricity, plastics, and more are all required for me to do my job. So I can only bring my knowledge with me. However, I do have extensive experience with a rifle in the field, just no experience with making my own ammo.

If I knew where we were going but didn't have time to prepare, I wouldn't have the gun or ammo, because I have none of that at my house. So instead, I'd grab my hunting knife, the recurve bow and some arrows, and the katana off my wall.

If I didn't know where I was going (aka a D&D world), then I wouldn't bring the D&D books. For example, if I thought I was going to the past, I would instead grab the natural medicine book on my book shelf and maybe a blank journal and some pencils.

I'm also willing to change any and all items off my list for something else if someone else had a decent reason for the change.

[Lalliman]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I don't think this has been said.

The total weight of these items should not exceed 40 lbs. (ca. 90 kilograms), and does not include food, vehicles, or other such forbidden items.
You swapped them. 40 kg is ~90 lbs, and 40 lbs is ~20 kg.

[mgshamster]

Party diversity was a big thing for me, as I didn't want people arguing over who would be the be "best" Wizard if all of them were Wizards, but okay, maybe we can drop the rule of "one class each", or that perhaps the DM can waive it at his or her discretion (I wouldn't, but then, it may not be everyone's cup of tea).

In that case, I'd recommend you change it to "no two characters can have the same archetype."

This allows for two people to be the same class but still have diversity in party composition.


Lastly, I'd ask polymaths and people with varied skill sets to either 1) choose whatever class they'd like and defend themselves any contestation for it according to the rules or 2) choose to be either a Rogue (skill master with a wide skill pool and limited expertise) or a Bard (skill master with an even wider skill pool, but no specialties).

That's fair, another option would be to have them pick one class and multiclass in to another as soon as possible. Then, later on, they can focus on one or the other. Or take your suggestion of starting at level 2.


Also, I stand by the idea Sorcerers are the least likely class to be chosen in reality (which is why my original rules make it very hard to become a Sorcerer; it's literally a last resort left to the DM and handwaived by magic),

You make a good point; here's my counter argument. The sorcerer class is one that's dependent on heritage - innate magic that comes out in you based on what your ancestors did. I'd argue that anyone who was raised in a family that had a strong connection to heritage or ancestor worship could be a sorcerer, or anyone who's parents or grandparents did something particularly strange (like if they had a parent who was a ghost hunter or heavily believed and practiced paganism or something). So whether someone is a sorcerer is not dependent on their own talents, but rather based on the luck of birth. It's still pretty rare.

[PeteNutButter]

I don't get everyone's perspective that if you have a high int you would just be a wizard when ported into the fantasy world. Have you ever studied magic in real life? Yeah you might be capable due to your int, but that doesn't make you instantly a wizard. I get that the point is they are magically assigned a class. In that case sorcerer seems like just as likely as any other class. Anyone who is naturally gifted in any way and has a strong personality, which often goes hand in hand, could be a sorcerer.

As for equipment to bring? Well what's the limitation? Weight? Size? I'm thinking military equipment here. Yeah you would run out of ammo EVENTUALLY, but seriously things will stop fighting you, before you get there. Give me a SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) M249 with a standard combat load or more of ammo. A single 3-5 round burst would kill most humanoids. A couple hundred rounds should last you until your high enough level that you won't need it anymore.

If we can work with teammates to carry and set it up, it'd be interesting to see what would happen when a dragon got hit by the M2 .50 cal Ma Deuce. HINT: if its anything like what happens when it hits a human... red mist.

Anyways if you wanted to keep it in flavor we have some pretty nice modern metals. Depending on the date your fantasy is based on, a modern metal weapon could be the equivolent of a +1 or +2 weapon just in tensile strength and sharpness, compared to other metals at the time. While modern armor is designed for bullets and tends to be replaced after use, making a kevlar suit rather useless, a suit of platemail using modern tech and methods would be very strong and durable. Compare late renaissance plate with early iterations. It's a wide gap.

How about bringing books on practical applications of modern science? It'd be useful if you start to industrialize a whole stronghold.

[mgshamster]

I don't get everyone's perspective that if you have a high int you would just be a wizard when ported into the fantasy world. Have you ever studied magic in real life? Yeah you might be capable due to your int, but that doesn't make you instantly a wizard. I get that the point is they are magically assigned a class. In that case sorcerer seems like just as likely as any other class. Anyone who is naturally gifted in any way and has a strong personality, which often goes hand in hand, could be a sorcerer.

Most of us here aren't saying that high int = wizard. What we have said is studying a STEM field = wizard. It's a translation of the study and discipline necessary to understand STEM would be the same kind of study necessary to understand arcane magic - all equations and stuff. Heck, I spent half the day on Friday trying to figure out some equations at work, and how the heck the engineer who used a specific equation got what he did - so far, I'm still at a loss, because it's backwards from what chromatography theory states. So either the equation being used is wrong or I'm missing something.

It's that kind of "pouring through books and theory" to gain an understanding that would translate to "I can do magic!" Don't think too hard about it, we're hand waving a lot here.


As for equipment to bring? Well what's the limitation? Weight? Size?

This is all listed in the OP. Weight is no more than 40 lbs total between 10 items. Ammo counts as part of the item using the ammo - you get one clip or one quiver full, something to that extent.

The things you're allowed to bring must be something you have at your home, your place of work, or an item you've been trained to use.


I'm thinking military equipment here. Yeah you would run out of ammo EVENTUALLY, but seriously things will stop fighting you, before you get there. Give me a SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) M249 with a standard combat load or more of ammo. A single 3-5 round burst would kill most humanoids. A couple hundred rounds should last you until your high enough level that you won't need it anymore.

If we can work with teammates to carry and set it up, it'd be interesting to see what would happen when a dragon got hit by the M2 .50 cal Ma Deuce. HINT: if its anything like what happens when it hits a human... red mist.

Funnily enough, if we were transported to a D&D world, then the bullets wouldn't do that much damage. Physics is over-ridden by game balance. :)


How about bringing books on practical applications of modern science? It'd be useful if you start to industrialize a whole stronghold.

Books are allowed if they're a part of your specialty or training. For example, I'm allowed to bring a book on practical science or chemistry, because I'm a scientist. None of my players would be allowed to bring such things. It's not an item they own, use at work, or have training in.

[Sir cryosin]

Penutbutter you stole what I would do I would bring books with instructions with very intricate details and steps on how to build guns and gunpowder. I mean a high lv wizard can rain meteors down on you but if he gets sniped from a mile away he ain't raining meteors on you. Just imagine a necromancer strapping suicide bombs 2 zombies and skeletons. For personal reasons I would bring my phone with all my music with a portable speakers ear buds with one of those things were you crank it to put a charge on your ipod. Then I would go around playing music from my phone lip sing say I'm the world's best bard. If asked how I'm plays so many instruments I'll just say I'm using minor illusion to create the musical noises. I would take modern military camo uniform I can't remember what it's called right now but the color patten is gray green tan. If you have ever seen anyone wear them it is hard to spot them in any environment other then snow. Lots and lots of Tylenol or pain killers because everybody would be suffering from not having caffeine. Here's the funny one that nobody would think about a whole bunch of condoms. Very useful and not just for doing the dirty deed. Oh and I'll be bringing truckloads of toilet paper. A whole bunch of duct tape.


I would be a Ranger because I going hunting not just with a rifle but with a bow and if I'm feel lazy I'll use my dad's crossbow. I love playing paintball and not the speedball but woods ball. I work on a farm. I love reading and studied history. I was in jrotc in high school. I use to train with my friend that did mma. I'm told I'm a people person very polite. But I'm just good at lying. And I'm good at reading people.

So my skills would be
Deception, animal handling, survival, insight, history, perception
Str:17
Dex:16
Con:15
Wis:14
Int:12
Chr13
Equipment heavy crossbow, greatsword, a couple of daggers.
I would have half-plate painted camo with green gray tan. Feats would be crossbow expert. Medium armor master.

[PeteNutButter]

Most of us here aren't saying that high int = wizard. What we have said is studying a STEM field = wizard. It's a translation of the study and discipline necessary to understand STEM would be the same kind of study necessary to understand arcane magic - all equations and stuff. Heck, I spent half the day on Friday trying to figure out some equations at work, and how the heck the engineer who used a specific equation got what he did - so far, I'm still at a loss, because it's backwards from what chromatography theory states. So either the equation being used is wrong or I'm missing something.
It's that kind of "pouring through books and theory" to gain an understanding that would translate to "I can do magic!" Don't think too hard about it, we're hand waving a lot here.
This is all listed in the OP. Weight is no more than 40 lbs total between 10 items. Ammo counts as part of the item using the ammo - you get one clip or one quiver full, something to that extent.
The things you're allowed to bring must be something you have at your home, your place of work, or an item you've been trained to use.
Funnily enough, if we were transported to a D&D world, then the bullets wouldn't do that much damage. Physics is over-ridden by game balance. :)
Books are allowed if they're a part of your specialty or training. For example, I'm allowed to bring a book on practical science or chemistry, because I'm a scientist. None of my players would be allowed to bring such things. It's not an item they own, use at work, or have training in.

Ok so I could bring an M249 but your saying it'll be no better than a longbow? Like that's super lame and unfun. Better just to not let me bring it.
So just having a library card and amazon doesn't allow me to bring books, eh? Hmm. Sounds like what I am by proffession (military) is counterintuitively weak. I can bring and use my modern weapons, but they are of no benefit, and I can't bring books in studies I'm not an expert in. Knowing tactics and how to lead in battle then would be of little use because 5e doesn't even have things like flanking. Looks like I'm pretty useless here... :smallfrown:

[ZenBear]

For equipment, I would bring my tool bag first and foremost. Pliers, wire cutters, hammer, etc. Lots of usefulness in a roughly 10lb. bag. I also own a Emergency Medical Responder first aid kit (took the classes but never finished certification), that's coming too. Other than that... I guess some winter clothing. I don't own a lot of stuff that isn't electronic. I suppose some books. I think I still have my EMR textbook, that will definitely come in handy. Plus my collection of R.A. Salvatore books so if I ever run into Drizzt he can read them and the universe will implode.

[mgshamster]

Ok so I could bring an M249 but your saying it'll be no better than a longbow? Like that's super lame and unfun. Better just to not let me bring it.

According to the DMG, an automatic rifle does 2d8 damage; has the burst fire, reload (30), two-handed, and ammunition properties. Range of 80/240.

For a SAW's drum, I'd simply set the reload to a higher number.


So just having a library card and amazon doesn't allow me to bring books, eh? Hmm.

According to the OP, yes. I even suggested brining a book that explains how to make gunpowder - and I probably couldn't bring that as it's not something I've ever done before.


Sounds like what I am by proffession (military) is counterintuitively weak. I can bring and use my modern weapons, but they are of no benefit, and I can't bring books in studies I'm not an expert in.

That doesn't make your military background useless. Much like how my combat training in artillery and infantry didn't transfer to civilian life well, that doesn't mean that everything I learned in the military was useless to my current career.


Knowing tactics and how to lead in battle then would be of little use because 5e doesn't even have things like flanking. Looks like I'm pretty useless here... :smallfrown:

"Flanking" from a military tactic perspective is very much different than flanking in D&D combat. You don't need training in the military to be able to team up on someone in a fight. Flanking from a military perspective is about troop movements and large scale tactics.

What's your MOS, anyways? Let's try to figure it out. Earlier, you said you are an officer, so Paladin may fit well if you uphold the ideals of the military, such as the Soldiers Creed or the Army Values (LDRSHIP). The latter makes for an excellent Oath of Devotion values list.

As a soldier, I'd expect you to bring more things than just guns and ammo - other equipment is vitally important. One thing every experienced soldier knows is the important of maintaining all their equipment, not just the weapons. Clothing, ruck sacks, canteen, first aid kits, tools, etc... Are you foregoing all of that just to bring in an extra box of ammo? (Heck, I used to sew on my own patches and repair my own BDUs out in the field). From your earlier post, you'd show up naked with a SAW, an M2 Browning, and ammo for both. What about a tripod for that M2? Won't be of much use without one. And you'll need a second barrel for when it starts to get too hot, otherwise you'll bend the barrel and permanently damage the gun. As an officer, have you even had training in these weapons? I was in an artillery unit with these same weapons, and I never once saw our officers train with them - even when I worked the range for our officers' weapons qualifications; they only trained with pistols. It was only the enlisted who trained with the SAW or any of the mounted weapons (M2, M240, MK19, etc). Heck, I even had to teach an LT how to drive a HMMWV when he wanted to take one for a spin out in the training field; it's just not something an officer is taught. Maybe if you're in a spec ops unit or something.

And please, let's avoid the "Oh, I can't do this one thing, well, looks like I'm useless" crap; you're a soldier, I expect better from you. If there's one thing a soldier can do better than almost anyone else, it's adapt and overcome.

And also of importance, since you're an officer, what's your degree in? That's also of importance in figuring out your character background and potential class.

[DiceDiceBaby]

Hm. Seems I really need help developing the rules regarding equipment. All of you mentioned very good points to make me reconsider some rules or add new ones... I'll be incorporating them soon.

Should I allow the PCs to bring D&D books? It may be awesome, but it may also be very bad for them. It might make the campaign too easy or trivial, unless the DM is a very cunning person; I mean, half the fun is trying to find out how to beat the monsters in the manual without consulting it, but then, if we simulate this as real life, that's the first thing they should bring, right? Maybe they should choose equipment under the impression that they will be sent to a hostile, war-torn area.

I think I also need to adjust the weights (good catch there, my bad!) and the other clarifications regarding proficiency.

In the meantime, I skimmed the thread and ran down a list of rules I'm considering as "optional" and also a guide to determine the classes and background of players, using all of your wonderful input (it's in the spoiler tag, below). :smallwink:

Additions to the guidelines for classes / backgrounds below are welcome; I'm sure I missed a bunch of things that equate into real life!

IV. Optional Rules and Additional Guidelines

At the DM’s discretion, the following rules and guidelines may apply:

A. No Heterogeneous Party

The DM may opt to lift the rule regarding duplicates of classes and allow more than one person to pick one class, or allow characters to begin at level 2 and multiclass to create a character more in line to their real-life professions or fields of expertise.

B. Random Classes for the Undecided

Instead of creating Sorcerer characters for those who cannot select or determine a class, the class can be determined randomly, or alternatively, the players who wish to select a class can roll a d20 and compare the higher value to be able to play the class (rerolling in the event of ties until a clear selection is made).

C. Suggestions for Classes

Barbarian – defined by “using the power of raw strength and skill”, a Barbarian class could be assigned to: people with spiritual faiths (such as Native Americans or Shinto practitioners), berserkers, professional wrestlers, people with anger management issues, people who never finished high school or equivalent degrees, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Animal Handling, Athletics, Intimidation, Nature, Perception, and Survival.

Bard – defined by “using the power of words and music”, professional musicians, poets, orators, actors, speechwriters, people who work in embassies, social activists, people with degrees in multiple fields (but no specialization), people who studied fields of interdisciplinary nature (international studies, liberal arts, hybrid degrees of two or more fields), and the like. Choose any three skills to be proficient in.

Cleric – defined by “using the power of belief in a deity”, seminarians, religious authorities, registered clergy, priests who spread the faith, nuns and sisters, doctors by profession, people who openly practice faiths (with organized religions), people with degrees in philosophy, theology, or mythology. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: History, Insight, Medicine, Persuasion, and Religion.

Druid – defined by “using the power of nature and animals”, a Druid class could be assigned to: environmentalists, zookeepers, herbologists, professional horticulturists, pet trainers, people with degrees in natural sciences (but especially botany, zoology, biology, life sciences, environmental sciences), and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, Animal Handling, Insight, Medicine, Nature, Perception, Religion, and Survival.

Fighter – defined by “being an exceptional combatant”, a Fighter class could be assigned to: combat-oriented soldiers, weapon-oriented soldiers, weapons experts, people with degrees in military tactics or military history, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, and Survival.

Monk – defined by “being a practitioner of asceticism and training”, a Monk class could be assigned to: priests or nuns who remain in monasteries or cloisters, people who train in Asian martial arts with spiritual elements, fung shui experts and geomancers, hermits, people with degrees in eastern philosophy and religion, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Acrobatics, Athletics, History, Insight, Religion, and Stealth.

Paladin – defined by “using the power of an oath and moral principles”, a Paladin class could be assigned to: police officers, military personnel, doctors by vocation (healing the sick and the weak), lawyers by vocation (defending the poor), priests who travel (missionaries for the marginalized), anyone with a personal oath and profession tasked to “serve and protect” (and who stands by this oath no matter what), wide-eyed idealists, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, Medicine, Persuasion, and Religion.

Ranger – defined by “being a protector of nature and the wilds”, a Ranger class could be assigned to: professional geographers, pathfinders, wilderness experts, mountaineers, spelunkers, cartographers, foresters, homesteaders, woodspersons and outdoorsmen, forest rangers, and the like. Choose three among the following skills to be proficient in: Animal Handling, Athletics, Insight, Investigation, Nature, Perception, Stealth, and Survival.

Rogue – defined by “being able to use stealth to achieve ends”, a Rogue class could be assigned to: detectives, private investigators, investigative journalists, diplomats, people who work in embassies, trained gymnasts and acrobats, pathological liars, specialists of disguise, people with degrees in multiple fields (but one or two fields of expertise), and the like. Choose four among the following skills to be proficient in: Acrobatics, Athletics, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Perception, Performance, Persuasion, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth.

Sorcerer – defined by “being of strange, wondrous or fortunate ancestry of origin”, a Sorcerer class could be assigned to: people with royal heritage, prodigies, and savants, people who have won in the lottery, abandoned orphans, and any players who cannot find a class that would otherwise suit them (wild magic from the scenario gives them their powers). Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Persuasion, and Religion.

Warlock – defined by “using and depending on the power of a patron”, a Warlock class could be assigned to: lawyers by profession, employees of a large corporation with a prominent CEO, people who believe in the existence of faeries or aliens (or other obscure supernatural beings who are not gods or goddesses with formal religions), people who are dependent on the support of a patron (financial or otherwise), conspiracy theorists, people with degrees in business and management. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, Deception, History, Intimidation, Investigation, Nature, and Religion.

Wizard – defined by “using the power of study and research”, a Wizard class could be assigned to: teachers, professors, people in the academe, researchers, scholars, people with above-average IQ, people with any degrees in higher education beyond college (masters, PhD, etc.). Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, History, Insight, Investigation, Medicine, and Religion.

D. Suggestions of Backgrounds

Acolyte – An Acolyte background could be assigned to: pious devotees to any organized religion with set places of worship, those who regularly attend events or activities related to organized religions, people with degrees in theology who practice their religions, and the like. Skills: Insight, Religion.

Charlatan – A Charlatan background could be assigned to: hustlers, peddlers of psudeoscience, people with degrees in business and management (but especially marketing), and the like. Skills: Deception, Slight of Hand.

Criminal – A Criminal background could be assigned to: anyone with a criminal record, anyone who regularly engages (or has regularly engaged in) illegal or unlawful activity, anyone who was found guilty in a court of law, and the like. Skills: Deception, Stealth.

Variant Criminal: Spy – A Spy background could be assigned to: journalists, dataminers, truth seekers, conspiracy theorists, and the like. Skills: Deception, Stealth.

Entertainer – An Entertainer background could be assigned to: anyone who works with audiences for entertainment, people who work in circuses or casinos, professional performers, people with degrees in mass media or and communication arts. Skills: Acrobatics, Performance.

Variant Entertainer: Gladiator – a Gladiator background could be assigned to: professional athletes, gymnasts, professional wrestlers, professional martial artists, olympians, athletes as sport (and not just physical well-being).
Skills: Acrobatics, Performance.

Folk Hero – A Folk Hero background could be assigned to: rebel leaders, activists, disaster relief and response units, farmers and farmhands, politicians from humble upbringings, and the like. Skills: Animal Handling, Survival.

Guild Artisan – A Guild Artisan background could be assigned to: blue collar workers, people with degrees from vocational schools, people with small or medium enterprises built around arts and crafts, and the like. Skills: Insight, Persuasion.

Variant Guild Artisan: Guild Merchant – A Guild Merchant could be assigned to: door-to-door salesmen, telemarketers, travelling peddlers, business consultants, and the like. Skills: Insight, Persuasion.

Hermit – A Hermit background could be assigned to: people who live in seclusion, conspiracy theorists, and the like. Skills: Medicine, Religion.

Noble – A Noble background could be assigned to: people who belong to prominent or wealthy families, and the like. Skills: History, Persuasion.

Variant Noble: Knight – A Knight background could be assigned to: people who own land and have tenants who cater to them, and the like. Skills: History, Persuasion.

Outlander – An Outlander background could be assigned to: people who travel and move constantly, people who go mountain climbing or trekking, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Survival.

Sage – A Sage background could be assigned to: academics, research assistants, interns, professors, employees in the academe, researchers, librarians, and the like. Skills: Arcana, History.

Sailor – A Sailor background could be assigned to: seafarers, people who own ships or boats, lifeguards, marine biologists, people with professions related to bodies of water, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Perception.

Variant Sailor: Pirate – A Pirate background could be assigned to: people who have engaged in criminal activities related to water or piracy, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Perception.

Soldier – A Soldier background could be assigned to: people who have completed mandatory military service, professional soldiers, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Intimidation.

Urchin – An Urchin background could be assigned to: people who grew up in the cities, people with poor origins, and the like. Skills: Slight of Hand, Stealth.


EDIT - Adding one more optional rule that I'm not including in the Spoiler tag:

C. Past Selves Rule

Players may opt, with the permission of the DM, to play a younger version of themselves that suits a different class, background, or alignment that is still faithful to their real-life selves. In this case, age, height, weight, and other characteristics are adjusted accordingly.

[Addaran]

I did that kinda once. It was a normal game, but i decided to play medieval me. Ended up as a barbarian with 10 str, lots of dex and decent mental stats. (it was in C&C) I love that character so much, until a barghest ate me....


If i'm going a more close representation, i'd be a monk (did karate for 11 years, recently restarted). For background, i'd go with Sage with a specialisation in Geekery. Or Far Traveler from SCAG since i'd be from another world. ;)
For stats: Str 10(maybe less...), Dex 14, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 10 and Cha 9 (i'm so screwed....) Since i absolutly love magic, i'd probably end up Shadow Monk or 4 elements and possibly take magic initiate for fun.

For items, that's kinda hard. Most technological ones wouldn't work well in that world (maybe if you can cast shocking grasp to power the device =P) or wouldn't last long due to maintenance problems. The other problem, i'm wimpy and hates travelling with lots of stuff. Ideally, less then 10 lbs in a backpack and nothing too big that isn't easy to carry. Being a water treatment worker, i'd get one of those high tech small filtration device for water. Thanks to my background (and that other poster's idea) probably a monster manual or a really complete monster/myth enceclopedia. A good anti-water bag and clothes. My glasses (probably should get a few in case they break or find friends with mending).
I love my comfort but most things probably can be bought in D&D (pillow, clothes, etc) Problem would be carrying so much food, so i'd sell my house and bring a bigass gem (or gold maybe) so i can trade them for a magic item, that bowl that gives food (but i don't like gruel, so it would have to be a custom item =P)
Since i'm a monk, i won't need magic items/armors, so i'd use all my loot to get comfort magic items (protection from environnement cold/heat, magically dry/auto-cleaning clothes, a glass that cools water) once i'm adventuring.

Though being lazy, i probably wouldn't go adventuring....too dangerous and hard.


edit: A funny though, a "wife by trade" would be a pretty good match for a warlock. i.e. Someone who married to avoid working or a trophy wife who's seduced a rich old guy. Would work well for boy-toy too. =P

[DiceDiceBaby]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I don't think this has been said.

You swapped them. 40 kg is ~90 lbs, and 40 lbs is ~20 kg.

Thanks for pointing that out! I edited it in the main document I have on my PC. Will post the updated version once I feel everything is final. :smallsmile:

Incidentally, how much weight can the average (STR 10) D&D PC carry?


I like these rules. My own list would heavily depend on two questions: Do we know where we are going (i.e. The 5e game world) and how much time do we have to prepare?

If we knew where we were going and had time to prepare, I'd create a list of the following:
•D&D PHB and MM (handy reference to all monsters, spells)
•Backpacking Backpack (light weight, durable, water resistant
•Waterproof bag
•100' Coil of nylon rope
•Clothing: Several pairs of wool socks and undergarments, Sturdy pair of boots, Gore-Tex jacket and pants, normal pants, shirt, and a light sweater
•AR15 plus ammo and cleaning kit
•Book on practical chemistry that included how to make gunpowder
•Ammo reloading equipment
•First Aid kit

If I had room, I'd also throw in my camping cooking equipment and utensils, as well as my light weight two man tent. Unfortunately, my experience with chemistry requires an advancement in technology that wouldn't exist in a D&D world. Pure chemicals, electricity, plastics, and more are all required for me to do my job. So I can only bring my knowledge with me. However, I do have extensive experience with a rifle in the field, just no experience with making my own ammo.

If I knew where we were going but didn't have time to prepare, I wouldn't have the gun or ammo, because I have none of that at my house. So instead, I'd grab my hunting knife, the recurve bow and some arrows, and the katana off my wall.

If I didn't know where I was going (aka a D&D world), then I wouldn't bring the D&D books. For example, if I thought I was going to the past, I would instead grab the natural medicine book on my book shelf and maybe a blank journal and some pencils.

I'm also willing to change any and all items off my list for something else if someone else had a decent reason for the change.

All valid points. I'm revamping my rules to consider them. What would you suggest, mgshamster? I also incorporated your Sorcerer suggestion in the class selection guide in the spoiler tag of my previous post (making it a selectable class, but still a catch-all for those who can't choose one).

Also, depending on how lenient I might be, I could consider "items you would be able to buy or have access to in real life", but then, a rich player in real life could theoretically get away with bringing anything into the D&D world with no penalty other than not having the +2 proficiency bonus for using them.

Similarly, I'm thinking of giving them, say, a day to prepare, they know they will go to the D&D world, BUT they can't bring anything D&D related (game books, novels, etc.), totally banned. I think I'd approve your list otherwise; it's quite reasonable.

Lastly, those of you who decided to bring electronic technology... I hope you have enough spare batteries or a means to recreate electrical sources in a medieval world (theoretically possible, of course). I find bringing firearms (and looking for ways to reforge the bullets) to be an "easier" task. :smalltongue:

EDIT - Updated "Optional" Rules and Class / Background Selection Guide in Spoiler Tag below:

IV. Optional Rules and Additional Guidelines

At the DM’s discretion, the following rules and guidelines may apply:

A. No Heterogeneous Party

The DM may opt to lift the rule regarding duplicates of classes and allow more than one person to pick one class, or allow characters to begin at level 2 and multiclass to create a character more in line to their real-life professions or fields of expertise.

B. Random Classes for the Undecided

Instead of creating Sorcerer characters for those who cannot select or determine a class, the class can be determined randomly, or alternatively, the players who wish to select a class can roll a d20 and compare the higher value to be able to play the class (rerolling in the event of ties until a clear selection is made).

C. Past Selves Rule

Players may opt, with the permission of the DM, to play a younger version of themselves that suits a different class, background, or alignment that is still faithful to their real-life selves. In this case, age, height, weight, and other characteristics are adjusted accordingly.

D. Suggestions for Classes

Barbarian – defined by “using the power of raw strength and skill”, a Barbarian class could be assigned to: people with spiritual faiths (such as Native Americans or Shinto practitioners), berserkers, professional wrestlers, people with anger management issues, people who never finished high school or equivalent degrees, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Animal Handling, Athletics, Intimidation, Nature, Perception, and Survival.

Bard – defined by “using the power of words and music”, professional musicians, poets, orators, actors, speechwriters, people who work in embassies, social activists, people with degrees in multiple fields (but no specialization), people who studied fields of interdisciplinary nature (international studies, liberal arts, hybrid degrees of two or more fields), and the like. Choose any three skills to be proficient in.

Cleric – defined by “using the power of belief in a deity”, seminarians, religious authorities, registered clergy, priests who spread the faith, nuns and sisters, doctors by profession, people who openly practice faiths (with organized religions), people with degrees in philosophy, theology, or mythology. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: History, Insight, Medicine, Persuasion, and Religion.

Druid – defined by “using the power of nature and animals”, a Druid class could be assigned to: environmentalists, zookeepers, herbologists, professional horticulturists, pet trainers, people with degrees in natural sciences (but especially botany, zoology, biology, life sciences, environmental sciences), and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, Animal Handling, Insight, Medicine, Nature, Perception, Religion, and Survival.

Fighter – defined by “being an exceptional combatant”, a Fighter class could be assigned to: combat-oriented soldiers, weapon-oriented soldiers, weapons experts, people with degrees in military tactics or military history, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, and Survival.

Monk – defined by “being a practitioner of asceticism and training”, a Monk class could be assigned to: priests or nuns who remain in monasteries or cloisters, people who train in Asian martial arts with spiritual elements, fung shui experts and geomancers, hermits, people with degrees in eastern philosophy and religion, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Acrobatics, Athletics, History, Insight, Religion, and Stealth.

Paladin – defined by “using the power of an oath and moral principles”, a Paladin class could be assigned to: police officers, military personnel, doctors by vocation (healing the sick and the weak), lawyers by vocation (defending the poor), priests who travel (missionaries for the marginalized), anyone with a personal oath and profession tasked to “serve and protect” (and who stands by this oath no matter what), wide-eyed idealists, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, Medicine, Persuasion, and Religion.

Ranger – defined by “being a protector of nature and the wilds”, a Ranger class could be assigned to: professional geographers, pathfinders, wilderness experts, mountaineers, spelunkers, cartographers, foresters, homesteaders, woodspersons and outdoorsmen, forest rangers, and the like. Choose three among the following skills to be proficient in: Animal Handling, Athletics, Insight, Investigation, Nature, Perception, Stealth, and Survival.

Rogue – defined by “being able to use stealth to achieve ends”, a Rogue class could be assigned to: detectives, private investigators, investigative journalists, diplomats, people who work in embassies, trained gymnasts and acrobats, pathological liars, specialists of disguise, people with degrees in multiple fields (but one or two fields of expertise), and the like. Choose four among the following skills to be proficient in: Acrobatics, Athletics, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Perception, Performance, Persuasion, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth.

Sorcerer – defined by “being of strange, wondrous or fortunate ancestry of origin”, a Sorcerer class could be assigned to: people with royal heritage, prodigies, and savants, people who have won in the lottery, abandoned orphans, and any players who cannot find a class that would otherwise suit them (wild magic from the scenario gives them their powers). Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Persuasion, and Religion.

Warlock – defined by “using and depending on the power of a patron”, a Warlock class could be assigned to: lawyers by profession, employees of a large corporation with a prominent CEO, people who believe in the existence of faeries or aliens (or other obscure supernatural beings who are not gods or goddesses with formal religions), people who are dependent on the support of a patron (financial or otherwise), conspiracy theorists, people with degrees in business and management. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, Deception, History, Intimidation, Investigation, Nature, and Religion.

Wizard – defined by “using the power of study and research”, a Wizard class could be assigned to: teachers, professors, people in the academe, researchers, scholars, people with above-average IQ, people with any degrees in higher education beyond college (masters, PhD, etc.). Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, History, Insight, Investigation, Medicine, and Religion.

E. Suggestions of Backgrounds

Acolyte – An Acolyte background could be assigned to: pious devotees to any organized religion with set places of worship, those who regularly attend events or activities related to organized religions, people with degrees in theology who practice their religions, and the like. Skills: Insight, Religion.

Charlatan – A Charlatan background could be assigned to: hustlers, peddlers of psudeoscience, people with degrees in business and management (but especially marketing), and the like. Skills: Deception, Slight of Hand.

Criminal – A Criminal background could be assigned to: anyone with a criminal record, anyone who regularly engages (or has regularly engaged in) illegal or unlawful activity, anyone who was found guilty in a court of law, and the like. Skills: Deception, Stealth.

Variant Criminal: Spy – A Spy background could be assigned to: journalists, dataminers, truth seekers, conspiracy theorists, and the like. Skills: Deception, Stealth.

Entertainer – An Entertainer background could be assigned to: anyone who works with audiences for entertainment, people who work in circuses or casinos, professional performers, people with degrees in mass media or and communication arts. Skills: Acrobatics, Performance.

Variant Entertainer: Gladiator – a Gladiator background could be assigned to: professional athletes, gymnasts, professional wrestlers, professional martial artists, olympians, athletes as sport (and not just physical well-being). Skills: Acrobatics, Performance.

Folk Hero – A Folk Hero background could be assigned to: rebel leaders, activists, disaster relief and response units, farmers and farmhands, politicians from humble upbringings, and the like. Skills: Animal Handling, Survival.

Guild Artisan – A Guild Artisan background could be assigned to: blue collar workers, people with degrees from vocational schools, people with small or medium enterprises built around arts and crafts, and the like. Skills: Insight, Persuasion.

Variant Guild Artisan: Guild Merchant – A Guild Merchant could be assigned to: door-to-door salesmen, telemarketers, travelling peddlers, business consultants, and the like. Skills: Insight, Persuasion.

Hermit – A Hermit background could be assigned to: people who live in seclusion, conspiracy theorists, and the like. Skills: Medicine, Religion.

Noble – A Noble background could be assigned to: people who belong to prominent or wealthy families, and the like. Skills: History, Persuasion.

Variant Noble: Knight – A Knight background could be assigned to: people who own land and have tenants who cater to them, and the like. Skills: History, Persuasion.

Outlander – An Outlander background could be assigned to: people who travel and move constantly, people who go mountain climbing or trekking, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Survival.

Sage – A Sage background could be assigned to: academics, research assistants, interns, professors, employees in the academe, researchers, librarians, and the like. Skills: Arcana, History.

Sailor – A Sailor background could be assigned to: seafarers, people who own ships or boats, lifeguards, marine biologists, people with professions related to bodies of water, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Perception.

Variant Sailor: Pirate – A Pirate background could be assigned to: people who have engaged in criminal activities related to water or piracy, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Perception.

Soldier – A Soldier background could be assigned to: people who have completed mandatory military service, professional soldiers, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Intimidation.

Urchin – An Urchin background could be assigned to: people who grew up in the cities, people with poor origins, and the like. Skills: Slight of Hand, Stealth.


EDIT EDIT - I also thought about a rule loophole that I can theoretically bring an item that I am trained in, but don't have access to. For example, I am trained to use a bullpup rifle from my days in military service, but I certainly don't have access to one right now. I suppose I could handwave that and say "magic brought you your equipment" if a player requested for it, but then, I don't know how liberal I should be regarding the equipment that others have access to. Any thoughts on this?

[PeteNutButter]

According to the DMG, an automatic rifle does 2d8 damage; has the burst fire, reload (30), two-handed, and ammunition properties. Range of 80/240.

For a SAW's drum, I'd simply set the reload to a higher number.



That doesn't make your military background useless. Much like how my combat training in artillery and infantry didn't transfer to civilian life well, that doesn't mean that everything I learned in the military was useless to my current career.

I meant useless in regards to what I can bring. I don't have the ability to bring books which aren't in my specialized field. Of course my real life experience could benefit me, but that would be inherit in my RPing myself. I just find it odd that a military background affords no mechanical benefits.



"Flanking" from a military tactic perspective is very much different than flanking in D&D combat. You don't need training in the military to be able to team up on someone in a fight. Flanking from a military perspective is about troop movements and large scale tactics.

Of course, I was pointing out that even the simplest of things isn't accounted for so me busting out my Battle Drill 1A isn't going to help in game.



As a soldier, I'd expect you to bring more things than just guns and ammo - other equipment is vitally important. One thing every experienced soldier knows is the important of maintaining all their equipment, not just the weapons. Clothing, ruck sacks, canteen, first aid kits, tools, etc... Are you foregoing all of that just to bring in an extra box of ammo? (Heck, I used to sew on my own patches and repair my own BDUs out in the field). From your earlier post, you'd show up naked with a SAW, an M2 Browning, and ammo for both. What about a tripod for that M2? Won't be of much use without one. And you'll need a second barrel for when it starts to get too hot, otherwise you'll bend the barrel and permanently damage the gun. As an officer, have you even had training in these weapons? I was in an artillery unit with these same weapons, and I never once saw our officers train with them - even when I worked the range for our officers' weapons qualifications; they only trained with pistols. It was only the enlisted who trained with the SAW or any of the mounted weapons (M2, M240, MK19, etc). Heck, I even had to teach an LT how to drive a HMMWV when he wanted to take one for a spin out in the training field; it's just not something an officer is taught. Maybe if you're in a spec ops unit or something.

Of course I would bring more than the SAW, I was just jumping to things that I thought would be most broken in the world of D&D. As for the M2, I specifically said if you can get friends to help you carry it, implying the weapon and tripod and spare barrel. I make no claims at being an expert on these weapons. As officers don't usually QUALIFY on things other than their own personal weapon, usually an M4 for LTs, and M9 for O3 and up. But just because you don't qualify, doesn't mean you haven't had significant time behind the weapon system. I've put thousands of rounds down range at various times. I could do the headspace and timing on the M2, I can take apart and put together both. I am more than capable of calling myself proficient at firing and maintaining these weapons systems. LTs are historically a bad example because they are very new, and will have had little experience.



And please, let's avoid the "Oh, I can't do this one thing, well, looks like I'm useless" crap; you're a soldier, I expect better from you. If there's one thing a soldier can do better than almost anyone else, it's adapt and overcome.

I am merely pointing out the counter-intuitive system. Someone literally trained for war has no advantages in... war in a fantasy world. The system doesn't make me useless, just my background.



And also of importance, since you're an officer, what's your degree in? That's also of importance in figuring out your character background and potential class.

I don't think accounting and military history would be of much use, unless I find myself funding a guild or running an army. Maybe if I lived to reach high level. I was Infantry branch detail finance, and am now logistics branched. There is a lot of expertise there that could help me, but it's built into me RPing myself. Furthermore since the DM may not know as much about military strategy, anything I do could be lost on a DM when attempting to create consequences for my choices. In other words if I am in theory the best tactician in the world (I'm not saying I am, just in theory) the DM may not even realize/understand what I try and implement in game. While if you say you know how to make gunpowder out of sulfur, saltpeter, and phosphorus (and know where to gather these resources). The DM will say "ok, here's your gunpowder." Nothing is lost in translation.

Even if I got so lucky as to lead an army, real world military history would be pretty useless when you couldn't even have military formations in D&D. One fireball and its game over... which pretty much nullifies the point of heavy infantry as a whole, making disperse cavalry or light infantry the rulers of the fantasy battlefield. All this means that everything I know about history of what happens when an army of type A meets type B under circumstances C, is out the window... because magic.

I reiterate, no I am not useless, but my background sort of is. I know just enough to know that what I know would not suffice. Anyways, sorry for the long rebuttal. And thank you for your service, mgshamster.

[mgshamster]

PeteNutButter, I'm actually really happy you gave such a long rebuttal with more detailed information; it swiped away the hint of a suspiscion I had for a valor thief (I've actually run in to one of those before on another forum I used to frequent). So with that, thanks for your service, as well. :)

DiceDiceBaby has given us some more to work with with the updated rules. As someone with two areas of focus (military history and accounting), you could go with a bard class as well (decent combatant and spell casting!) Unfortunately, for both of us, the soldier background means our background feature is kind of useless. However, you have much more training in large scale military tactics than I do - and there may be a way to implement that. Counterspelling is much easier in this edition, so just have a mage counter that fireball, and you can still use your heavy infantry to its full effect.

[DiceDiceBaby]

PeteNutButter and mgshamster - I didn't want to unnecessarily nerf the Soldier background; quite the contrary, I was afraid that background would be OP, as having access to too much weaponry and equipment would necessarily make anyone with a military background so well-equipped that the rest of the party would be overshadowed. I mean, I myself only served a short while in mandatory military service, and if I'm allowed to bring weapons I am trained in (even if I don't own them myself), then I'll be the only one in my playgroup who gets to bring a firearm to the campaign. Thus, I think I need to clarify some of the rules regarding bringing equipment for balance's sake.

For the record, I'd rule having access to Amazon Books (or heck, even a library card) would mean you can bring any book you can find on those platforms (but you'd fail the proficiency bonus to use them).

Compare:

Player A is a scientist in real life, plays as a Wizard in this campaign. Is therefore allowed to bring a science text book he or she could reasonably buy in a bookstore or rent in a library. He or she gets proficiency in using the book. Conversely, if Player A has a firearm in the house (but no idea how to use it), he or she could bring it, but not get the proficiency bonus.

Player B is a soldier in real life, plays a Fighter in this campaign. Is therefore allowed to bring any firearm he or she learned to use in the service (even if he or she didn't have one in the house at the time). He or she gets proficiency in using the firearm. Conversely, if Player B has a book about science in the house (but no understanding of the theories in it) he or she could bring it, but not get the proficiency bonus.

Is that balanced?

Lastly, as a DM, I'd also rule that whatever military rank you have in reality (I'm assuming higher than mine, as I am but a lowly Lance Corporal) would be refluffed into a relevant rank in the world (perhaps it manifests into an insignia or badge that, once seen worn on the chest, would make commoners cower in fear), such that unwitting, low-level soldiers who only acknolwedge the rank without identity verification would allow you to boss them around and also allow you access into military fortresses. I'm pretty sure D&D worlds don't have biometrics or ID cards, and bearing an insignia should allow you to talk your way into a fortress in the fantasy setting, and thus have access to the background feature stated in the PHB. At least, that's how I see it.

[ravenkith]

PeteNutButter and mgshamster - I didn't want to unnecessarily nerf the Soldier background; quite the contrary, I was afraid that background would be OP, as having access to too much weaponry and equipment would necessarily make anyone with a military background so well-equipped that the rest of the party would be overshadowed.

Yeah, soldier will be pretty OP, depending on how creative your players get;

I mean, just as a civilian, I can think of things I'd want to have:

Solar charger waterproof backpack (civilian)
Night vision goggles (military surplus)
Battery-powered power tool set (
Requisite battery packs
Quick charger
I-phone/tablet (with specific software preloads, including encyclopaedias/anarchist cookbook type programs/details of third world bootstrapping solutions to take villages from stone age to modern age)
Special forces survival manuals (includes instructions on making gillie suits)

....and I don't get access to restricted gear.....

[PeteNutButter]

PeteNutButter and mgshamster - I didn't want to unnecessarily nerf the Soldier background; quite the contrary, I was afraid that background would be OP, as having access to too much weaponry and equipment would necessarily make anyone with a military background so well-equipped that the rest of the party would be overshadowed. I mean, I myself only served a short while in mandatory military service, and if I'm allowed to bring weapons I am trained in (even if I don't own them myself), then I'll be the only one in my playgroup who gets to bring a firearm to the campaign. Thus, I think I need to clarify some of the rules regarding bringing equipment for balance's sake.

Maybe just make the player have to own them. It's rather difficult and expensive to actually own fully automatic weapons in most civilized areas of the world. I mean I could possibly get a M249 from my unit, "Sir, why do want to draw the M249?" "I'm going to Faerun to just hand it over." Most people even with background and training might find it hard to just get one in a day.



For the record, I'd rule having access to Amazon Books (or heck, even a library card) would mean you can bring any book you can find on those platforms (but you'd fail the proficiency bonus to use them).

Player A is a scientist in real life, plays as a Wizard in this campaign. Is therefore allowed to bring a science text book he or she could reasonably buy in a bookstore or rent in a library. He or she gets proficiency in using the book. Conversely, if Player A has a firearm in the house (but no idea how to use it), he or she could bring it, but not get the proficiency bonus.

Player B is a soldier in real life, plays a Fighter in this campaign. Is therefore allowed to bring any firearm he or she learned to use in the service (even if he or she didn't have one in the house at the time). He or she gets proficiency in using the firearm. Conversely, if Player B has a book about science in the house (but no understanding of the theories in it) he or she could bring it, but not get the proficiency bonus.

Is that balanced?

Yes, I mean the reason you would bring books is to learn from them. I guess it depends on what a book does for the player in the world. Like would a survival guide give advantage on survival checks? (Ignoring what I had already said about it being useless in D&D world)



Lastly, as a DM, I'd also rule that whatever military rank you have in reality (I'm assuming higher than mine, as I am but a lowly Lance Corporal) would be refluffed into a relevant rank in the world (perhaps it manifests into an insignia or badge that, once seen worn on the chest, would make commoners cower in fear), such that unwitting, low-level soldiers who only acknolwedge the rank without identity verification would allow you to boss them around and also allow you access into military fortresses. I'm pretty sure D&D worlds don't have biometrics or ID cards, and bearing an insignia should allow you to talk your way into a fortress in the fantasy setting, and thus have access to the background feature stated in the PHB. At least, that's how I see it.

This had me giggling. "Sir, you should make us go the goblin cave," says the local militia. "You stay here and do the paperwork for whenever Larry gets eaten by an Ogre."

[Kurald Galain]

PeteNutButter and mgshamster - I didn't want to unnecessarily nerf the Soldier background; quite the contrary, I was afraid that background would be OP, as having access to too much weaponry and equipment would necessarily make anyone with a military background so well-equipped that the rest of the party would be overshadowed.

It is a reasonable assumption that some of the more complicated equipment simply doesn't function in Faerun due to the laws of physics being subtly different. For example, it is canon that anything requiring electricity doesn't function at Hogwarts, and it's a plot point that gunpowder is inert in Roger Zelazny's Amber setting.

In other words, it's fine to allow characters to bring a rifle but not a rocket launcher.

[PotatoGolem]

I actually like the OP idea of limiting what you can bring to what you either own or use frequently. If you give time to prep, everyone is just going to bring an optimized gear loadout, which detracts from the vibe. If I'm getting sucked into D&D as myself , I'm (sadly) probably showing up in suit and tie with a briefcase, not bedecked in a ton of survival gear I've heard about but never owned.

It also makes soldiers way more useful, since you guys probably have a lot more wilderness travel and survival equipment that you use than us civilians.

[PeteNutButter]

I actually like the OP idea of limiting what you can bring to what you either own or use frequently. If you give time to prep, everyone is just going to bring an optimized gear loadout, which detracts from the vibe. If I'm getting sucked into D&D as myself , I'm (sadly) probably showing up in suit and tie with a briefcase, not bedecked in a ton of survival gear I've heard about but never owned.
It also makes soldiers way more useful, since you guys probably have a lot more wilderness travel and survival equipment that you use than us civilians.

Unless you are literally playing a game in Afghanistan the chances are even a Soldier would show up noting more than his uniform. Even infantry units spend less than half the time in the field. As for that uniform, well the ACU is dreadfully horrible camouflage in anything but modern cities, which why the Army is currently switching to a different pattern and color set. The camouflage on the ACU is so bad that when Soldiers are deployed they are issued an entirely different camouflage.

Point is while you show up in suit and pants, odds are a Soldier shows up in a glorified suit of pajamas. While more its comfortable and practical clothing, it does little else. Very few Soldiers would be actually carrying weapons around with ammo. Maybe Military Police or someone currently on a guard detail, and even then it would only be their individual weapon, an M9/M4 or M16 respectively.

Going off the OP, you have a day to prep, so I'm sure you'd at least put something else on. Maybe some hiking boots, and jeans at least. You probably have a knife in the house somewhere. Being Nerds, I'm sure a number of us have swords around. What would a primarily decorative sword do? Like -1 to attack and damage rolls?

[PeteNutButter]

Incidentally, how much weight can the average (STR 10) D&D PC carry?

It's 15 lbs per str point, so 150. Kinda ridiculous, really.




All valid points. I'm revamping my rules to consider them. What would you suggest, mgshamster? I also incorporated your Sorcerer suggestion in the class selection guide in the spoiler tag of my previous post (making it a selectable class, but still a catch-all for those who can't choose one).

Also, depending on how lenient I might be, I could consider "items you would be able to buy or have access to in real life", but then, a rich player in real life could theoretically get away with bringing anything into the D&D world with no penalty other than not having the +2 proficiency bonus for using them.

Similarly, I'm thinking of giving them, say, a day to prepare, they know they will go to the D&D world, BUT they can't bring anything D&D related (game books, novels, etc.), totally banned. I think I'd approve your list otherwise; it's quite reasonable.

Lastly, those of you who decided to bring electronic technology... I hope you have enough spare batteries or a means to recreate electrical sources in a medieval world (theoretically possible, of course). I find bringing firearms (and looking for ways to reforge the bullets) to be an "easier" task. :smalltongue:

EDIT - Updated "Optional" Rules and Class / Background Selection Guide in Spoiler Tag below:

IV. Optional Rules and Additional Guidelines

At the DM’s discretion, the following rules and guidelines may apply:

A. No Heterogeneous Party

The DM may opt to lift the rule regarding duplicates of classes and allow more than one person to pick one class, or allow characters to begin at level 2 and multiclass to create a character more in line to their real-life professions or fields of expertise.

B. Random Classes for the Undecided

Instead of creating Sorcerer characters for those who cannot select or determine a class, the class can be determined randomly, or alternatively, the players who wish to select a class can roll a d20 and compare the higher value to be able to play the class (rerolling in the event of ties until a clear selection is made).

C. Past Selves Rule

Players may opt, with the permission of the DM, to play a younger version of themselves that suits a different class, background, or alignment that is still faithful to their real-life selves. In this case, age, height, weight, and other characteristics are adjusted accordingly.

D. Suggestions for Classes

Barbarian – defined by “using the power of raw strength and skill”, a Barbarian class could be assigned to: people with spiritual faiths (such as Native Americans or Shinto practitioners), berserkers, professional wrestlers, people with anger management issues, people who never finished high school or equivalent degrees, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Animal Handling, Athletics, Intimidation, Nature, Perception, and Survival.

Bard – defined by “using the power of words and music”, professional musicians, poets, orators, actors, speechwriters, people who work in embassies, social activists, people with degrees in multiple fields (but no specialization), people who studied fields of interdisciplinary nature (international studies, liberal arts, hybrid degrees of two or more fields), and the like. Choose any three skills to be proficient in.

Cleric – defined by “using the power of belief in a deity”, seminarians, religious authorities, registered clergy, priests who spread the faith, nuns and sisters, doctors by profession, people who openly practice faiths (with organized religions), people with degrees in philosophy, theology, or mythology. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: History, Insight, Medicine, Persuasion, and Religion.

Druid – defined by “using the power of nature and animals”, a Druid class could be assigned to: environmentalists, zookeepers, herbologists, professional horticulturists, pet trainers, people with degrees in natural sciences (but especially botany, zoology, biology, life sciences, environmental sciences), and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, Animal Handling, Insight, Medicine, Nature, Perception, Religion, and Survival.

Fighter – defined by “being an exceptional combatant”, a Fighter class could be assigned to: combat-oriented soldiers, weapon-oriented soldiers, weapons experts, people with degrees in military tactics or military history, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, and Survival.

Monk – defined by “being a practitioner of asceticism and training”, a Monk class could be assigned to: priests or nuns who remain in monasteries or cloisters, people who train in Asian martial arts with spiritual elements, fung shui experts and geomancers, hermits, people with degrees in eastern philosophy and religion, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Acrobatics, Athletics, History, Insight, Religion, and Stealth.

Paladin – defined by “using the power of an oath and moral principles”, a Paladin class could be assigned to: police officers, military personnel, doctors by vocation (healing the sick and the weak), lawyers by vocation (defending the poor), priests who travel (missionaries for the marginalized), anyone with a personal oath and profession tasked to “serve and protect” (and who stands by this oath no matter what), wide-eyed idealists, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, Medicine, Persuasion, and Religion.

Ranger – defined by “being a protector of nature and the wilds”, a Ranger class could be assigned to: professional geographers, pathfinders, wilderness experts, mountaineers, spelunkers, cartographers, foresters, homesteaders, woodspersons and outdoorsmen, forest rangers, and the like. Choose three among the following skills to be proficient in: Animal Handling, Athletics, Insight, Investigation, Nature, Perception, Stealth, and Survival.

Rogue – defined by “being able to use stealth to achieve ends”, a Rogue class could be assigned to: detectives, private investigators, investigative journalists, diplomats, people who work in embassies, trained gymnasts and acrobats, pathological liars, specialists of disguise, people with degrees in multiple fields (but one or two fields of expertise), and the like. Choose four among the following skills to be proficient in: Acrobatics, Athletics, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Perception, Performance, Persuasion, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth.

Sorcerer – defined by “being of strange, wondrous or fortunate ancestry of origin”, a Sorcerer class could be assigned to: people with royal heritage, prodigies, and savants, people who have won in the lottery, abandoned orphans, and any players who cannot find a class that would otherwise suit them (wild magic from the scenario gives them their powers). Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Persuasion, and Religion.

Warlock – defined by “using and depending on the power of a patron”, a Warlock class could be assigned to: lawyers by profession, employees of a large corporation with a prominent CEO, people who believe in the existence of faeries or aliens (or other obscure supernatural beings who are not gods or goddesses with formal religions), people who are dependent on the support of a patron (financial or otherwise), conspiracy theorists, people with degrees in business and management. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, Deception, History, Intimidation, Investigation, Nature, and Religion.

Wizard – defined by “using the power of study and research”, a Wizard class could be assigned to: teachers, professors, people in the academe, researchers, scholars, people with above-average IQ, people with any degrees in higher education beyond college (masters, PhD, etc.). Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, History, Insight, Investigation, Medicine, and Religion.

E. Suggestions of Backgrounds

Acolyte – An Acolyte background could be assigned to: pious devotees to any organized religion with set places of worship, those who regularly attend events or activities related to organized religions, people with degrees in theology who practice their religions, and the like. Skills: Insight, Religion.

Charlatan – A Charlatan background could be assigned to: hustlers, peddlers of psudeoscience, people with degrees in business and management (but especially marketing), and the like. Skills: Deception, Slight of Hand.

Criminal – A Criminal background could be assigned to: anyone with a criminal record, anyone who regularly engages (or has regularly engaged in) illegal or unlawful activity, anyone who was found guilty in a court of law, and the like. Skills: Deception, Stealth.

Variant Criminal: Spy – A Spy background could be assigned to: journalists, dataminers, truth seekers, conspiracy theorists, and the like. Skills: Deception, Stealth.

Entertainer – An Entertainer background could be assigned to: anyone who works with audiences for entertainment, people who work in circuses or casinos, professional performers, people with degrees in mass media or and communication arts. Skills: Acrobatics, Performance.

Variant Entertainer: Gladiator – a Gladiator background could be assigned to: professional athletes, gymnasts, professional wrestlers, professional martial artists, olympians, athletes as sport (and not just physical well-being). Skills: Acrobatics, Performance.

Folk Hero – A Folk Hero background could be assigned to: rebel leaders, activists, disaster relief and response units, farmers and farmhands, politicians from humble upbringings, and the like. Skills: Animal Handling, Survival.

Guild Artisan – A Guild Artisan background could be assigned to: blue collar workers, people with degrees from vocational schools, people with small or medium enterprises built around arts and crafts, and the like. Skills: Insight, Persuasion.

Variant Guild Artisan: Guild Merchant – A Guild Merchant could be assigned to: door-to-door salesmen, telemarketers, travelling peddlers, business consultants, and the like. Skills: Insight, Persuasion.

Hermit – A Hermit background could be assigned to: people who live in seclusion, conspiracy theorists, and the like. Skills: Medicine, Religion.

Noble – A Noble background could be assigned to: people who belong to prominent or wealthy families, and the like. Skills: History, Persuasion.

Variant Noble: Knight – A Knight background could be assigned to: people who own land and have tenants who cater to them, and the like. Skills: History, Persuasion.

Outlander – An Outlander background could be assigned to: people who travel and move constantly, people who go mountain climbing or trekking, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Survival.

Sage – A Sage background could be assigned to: academics, research assistants, interns, professors, employees in the academe, researchers, librarians, and the like. Skills: Arcana, History.

Sailor – A Sailor background could be assigned to: seafarers, people who own ships or boats, lifeguards, marine biologists, people with professions related to bodies of water, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Perception.

Variant Sailor: Pirate – A Pirate background could be assigned to: people who have engaged in criminal activities related to water or piracy, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Perception.

Soldier – A Soldier background could be assigned to: people who have completed mandatory military service, professional soldiers, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Intimidation.

Urchin – An Urchin background could be assigned to: people who grew up in the cities, people with poor origins, and the like. Skills: Slight of Hand, Stealth.


EDIT EDIT - I also thought about a rule loophole that I can theoretically bring an item that I am trained in, but don't have access to. For example, I am trained to use a bullpup rifle from my days in military service, but I certainly don't have access to one right now. I suppose I could handwave that and say "magic brought you your equipment" if a player requested for it, but then, I don't know how liberal I should be regarding the equipment that others have access to. Any thoughts on this?

I'd consider customizing backgrounds further. For instance the soldier background is designed for people who were soldiers in the D&D world, not modern Soldiers. I'd say a modern Soldier has more of a claim to either survival (for wilderness training) or medicine (everyone trains in first aid, making them better than anyone but a true medical professional) than intimidation. Intimidation doesn't really fit at all.

Any player who has read the novels for where your world is set, could get free history proficiency. Anyone in business or sales would definitely have persuasion. Probably best just figuring out what two skills make the most sense for each player instead of hamfisting them into a background.

[mgshamster]

It's 15 lbs per str point, so 150. Kinda ridiculous, really.

Only if you don't use the encombrance rules. :)


I'd consider customizing backgrounds further. For instance the soldier background is designed for people who were soldiers in the D&D world, not modern Soldiers. I'd say a modern Soldier has more of a claim to either survival (for wilderness training) or medicine (everyone trains in first aid, making them better than anyone but a true medical professional) than intimidation. Intimidation doesn't really fit at all.

Any player who has read the novels for where your world is set, could get free history proficiency. Anyone in business or sales would definitely have persuasion. Probably best just figuring out what two skills make the most sense for each player instead of hamfisting them into a background.

I strongly agree with this. I even have a guide for customizing background features. We can use the PHB for all non-feature related background customization.

[Reverse]

Personally, I would choose or workshop each players ability scores compared to each other (point buy?). Pick or make up back grounds, let them be liberal with it. Your an Eagle Scout? Great! ROTC? Great! Basically the players need to pour enough into the PC's to feel attatched.
After all that I would send them to the land of Dungeons & Dragons naked, against their will and let them scrounge.
It could be a great cross over of the d&d cartoon of the 80's and a Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court.
If you don't get either reference YouTube the cartoon and the second is a very quick read.

Really though this entire concept TSR did in that cartoon. Bottom line go watch 1/2 a season it's great.

[DiceDiceBaby]

Great input, everyone! :smallbiggrin:

I modified the rules, and I think I incorporated everyone's feedback into a complete guide. Here's the most recent and complete version, with the edits (forgive the formatting!)!

Self-Insert Campaign Rules and Guidelines

I. Scenario

You are with a group of Players who are going to begin a Campaign in D&D with a mysterious new handbook that the Dungeon Master (DM) has acquired. Upon opening the book, a strange energy manages to somehow leap out of the pages and render everyone in your playgroup unconscious. You awaken in a bed, and you feel strange, stronger, even, yet somehow not yourself, and you notice some of your personal items, even those that you didn’t bring to the playgroup, are huddled around you. You find you are in what seems to be a tavern, and each member of the campaign has their own bed and their items next to them. But the Dungeon Master is missing… and all you know is that you need to find your DM, if you ever want to return home!

II. Objectives

Your playgroup is to form a party using characters who are more or less based on your actual selves in real life, with certain limitations regarding character creation. Your objective is to find the DM in this world, whom each of you is magically drawn to, and whom each of you knows is being possessed by an evil force. Your DM narrates the story as usual, but the dark forces that are trying to control your DM are also going to make it difficult for you to progress, so your DM is torn between trying to stop you and trying to help you save him. You must find your DM and help him overcome the dark force controlling his powers before the corruption consumes him for good!

III. Character Creation

The world you are in is a medieval, low-fantasy setting; magic exists, but it is accessible only to the learned few and it is not explicit, and the technology level is not particularly advanced. Thus, anyone who is attuned to magic or science can learn them. By virtue of this campaign, assume that your entire playgroup is acutely attuned to magic. Also, the qualities you possess in real life are now highlighted and heightened in this world, in order to give you a fair chance at succeeding in the Campaign, but some qualities you were weak at may have been reduced, others you were good at became better, and others you were great at may have been increased.

Because the DM is highly encouraged to make this Campaign as real as possible, it is in the best interest of the playgroup to select their qualities based on their actual abilities, and to choose people to represent the classes and backgrounds in their playgroup that would best highlight their actual professions and backgrounds and the needs of the party. Your survival in this fantasy world depends on it!

A. Contesting Qualities

Being a Self-Insert Campaign means that each person in the playgroup must assume good faith in both selecting the qualities they believe they possess, and also respect other member’s estimates of their own abilities. However, to prevent inaccuracies in character creation, players are free to discuss and debate amongst themselves (or on occasion feel the need to prove) if they possess certain qualities in real life or not. The DM has to referee this in the interest of fairness to all concerned. Contesting others is to be treated as a mature and serious matter; not properly finding the right or best people qualified to do certain tasks or roles can make or break the Campaign depending on your actual abilities and cooperation as a team.

B. Race

By default, all of the player characters in this campaign are non-variant humans with the same physical appearance, age, height, weight (size is medium, speed is 30 ft.) and other features of their respective actual selves in real life, plus the following qualities:

Ability Score Increase. Your ability scores each increase by 1. This represents your entry in the fantasy world, which increases your personal characteristics: good becomes great and mediocre becomes above average, using other members of the playgroup as points for comparison in selecting your Ability Scores later on.

Alignment. In D&D, alignment is a set of 9 different personality brackets which try to simplify what philosophers and social scientists in real life spend years of devotion and study to explain. For simplicity’s sake, you are to pick an alignment you are most comfortable portraying, or barring that, one which aligns to your character. The same applies for Bonds, Flaws and Ideals, but depending on how flexible your DM is, you can opt to treat these things as fluid and complex as they are in reality.

Languages. For this campaign, you can all speak, read and write in Common, which represents the ability to speak, read and write in English, as this primer is also written in English. For each additional language that you are fluent in, because you learned them while growing up or devoted years of study towards it during your education or as a hobby, you may choose one additional language in the fantasy world that you are now magically able to speak. For example, if a member of your playgroup grew up bilingual, speaking English and Spanish, they can speak Common and one fantasy language of their choice for this campaign.

Like all other qualities established during character creation, the ability to speak multiple languages or any other qualities tied to the person can be contested.

Here is an example of contesting another member of the playgroup:

Player A claims to have been raised bilingual and learned a third foreign language during his high school and undergraduate studies. Player B wishes for proof that Player A can, indeed, speak, read, and/or write in these languages. Player A then can choose how he wishes to prove himself; he may present certificates, translate texts, show pictures of visits to countries that use the languages as official languages, speak or recite words in that language, and so on. If the majority of the playgroup are convinced, Player A may have these qualities, if not, Player A will have to settle with what the DM rules.

C. Ability Scores

For this campaign, the chaotic magic that transported you into this land has also decreed that you have the following standard set of scores, rather than randomly predetermining them, in line with the theme that transporting you to the fantasy world has magically enhanced your real life capabilities: 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, and 11, higher than the one provided in the Player Handbook or in conventional selected or quick builds. You may distribute these as you wish, preferably in line with your real life characteristics, with no further justification other than some of your actual abilities have become better in this world, while others have become worse. You are free to contest each other’s Ability Scores, but this isn’t necessary for the most part.

D. Class

For this campaign, the selection of a class should be a very strict matter. Unlike ability scores and backgrounds, which can be more lenient and flexible, your class choice necessarily needs to overlap with what you are actually capable of doing in real life. As much as possible, each player is to pick an exclusive class for a heterogeneous party. Other members of the playgroup are free to contest your choice of class if more than one person wishes to play as a particular class. Here is another example of contesting another member of the playgroup:

Player A is a hobby poet who plays the piano and wishes to play as a Bard. Player B contests Player A’s claim to the class and wants to play as a Bard as well; he studied at a music school, plays the cello and the violin, and performs regularly at the local open microphone sessions at the nearby pub. Player C, however, is a professional performer with weekly gigs in a band, plays a wide variety of musical instruments, composes songs, and can sing on key. If the majority of the playgroup is convinced with Player C’s argument, Player C should play as a Bard, and Players A and B should choose to play as other classes.

Another Example:

Player A graduated with honors at the undergraduate level at the local university, and wishes to play as a Wizard. Player B contests Player A’s claim to the class and wants to play as a Wizard as well; she finished her master studies and is currently lecturing part time at the university that Player A attended. Player C, however, has a PhD. and is an associate professor at a different university, with multiple publications under her name. If the majority of the playgroup is convinced with Player C’s argument, Player C should play as a Wizard, and Players A and B should choose to play as other classes.

If, after selecting classes, two people select the same class, whichever of the two has the most merit or the most convincing argument is allowed to play as that class, the logic of the matter being that you want as diverse a party as possible, with the person most suited for a particular role to actually play that role, since your survival in the fantasy world depends on this.

Since different playgroups have different people, Player A might be a Fighter in one such Campaign but a Wizard in another, depending on her or his personal merits relative to the other members of the group, allowing for more diversity.

If two Players vying for the same class are equally convincing, an exception can be made that both of them can play the class, under the warning that this may jeopardize the party’s diversity, which may be necessary to complete the Campaign. If your party has more than twelve Players, and each of the classes has already been selected, and duplications are inevitable, however, this should be fine.

In the event that a Player is unable to pick a class, or all other classes she or he would like to play are taken, that Player has to choose Sorcerer, the least likely class pick to be justified in real life, with the chaotic magic that brought you all to the fantasy world giving her or him innate magical power for this Campaign.

E. Background

For this campaign, the selection of backgrounds is considerably more lenient than the selection of classes. More than one Player may select the same background for their character, and while contesting players for this is possible, it shouldn’t be taken as seriously as with the selection classes, as duplications can occur. Here is another example of contesting another member of the playgroup:

Player A wishes to have the Soldier background, as he served for a year taking required military service, knows basic survival, combat, and first aid skills, and knows how to operate, fire, and clean a rifle. Player B wishes to have the same background, as he served for two years taking required military service, and has a higher equivalent rank than Player A. Player C studied in a military academy and not only has completed two years of military service, but decided to become a professional soldier at the local barracks. If the three Players were contesting each other for the Fighter class, the party might select Player C to become their Fighter, as he would be their best bet for survival in the fantasy world (and perhaps assign Player B as a Rogue or Player C as a Paladin depending on their other real life qualities). However, each of the three players can legitimately pick the Soldier background regardless of class, and most likely no one in the playgroup would contest that for the three of them.
Note that, using this example, in another playgroup where no one else has competing real life qualities, Player A would most likely be uncontested for his class as a Fighter and background as a Soldier. Again, it is advised that the Players should concede certain backgrounds and classes to other Players who may be better suited for the tasks that the class or background may entail.

F. Equipment, Armor, Weapons, Tools and Gold

After each Player selects their class and background, they are to make a list of ten (or less) real-life items that they will bring along with them to the fantasy world. These ten items will be your equipment and tools for the beginning of the Campaign, and replace the ones you would normally get from your class and background. The total weight of these items should not exceed 90 lbs. (ca. 40 kilograms), and does not include food, vehicles, or other such forbidden items that may be deemed forbidden by the DM. Because of the weight restriction, each of these items should be items that can be individually carried or held with one hand, or worn on one part of the body in case of armor. The items have to be justified as reasonably obtainable within a day of preparation.

For ammunition, writing materials, or other small, loose objects necessary for certain classes, such as in the case of ranged weapons, or for Players who need to write things down or create art, one fully loaded cartridge, magazine, quiver, pencil case or art set counts as one item for the sake of simplicity, like the usual packs in D&D.

Players can bring clothes, and each full body set of clothing counts as one item. Clothing considered as armor count as one item each. Players cannot bring food, vehicles (such as skateboards), nor mobility clothing (such as rollerblades or skates). Players also cannot bring any items directly related to D&D (rulebooks, novels, etc.), which are all banned by principle.

Players all start with 30 GP in your pockets regardless of class and background (you don’t get any items from your class or background), but your pockets have otherwise been emptied, so any small items in your pockets or on your person are not with you unless you included them in the list of ten items separately.

The items you are allowed to bring must fall into one or more of the following categories:

Items you actually possess. You can bring any items that you actually possess in real life. For classes with familiars or beast companions, you may bring your pet as an item, but this is not advised. Note that just because you have any particular item doesn’t mean you have the proficiency to use it. Because the world is set in a medieval low-fantasy setting, bringing electronic gadgets is not advised and bringing firearms without the means or knowledge of how to create more ammunition may be problematic when you run out of later on, though, depending on the DM and the abilities of your party members, you might find a solution to these problems using actual science, engineering, and metallurgy.

Items you routinely use or carry. Certain professions in real life require equipment that stays in the workplace and otherwise cannot or should not be brought home. These are items you could justify as those you routinely carry. Whether these are items in your purse all the time, or items you only use in your office, these items are things you interact with on an almost daily basis, and are fair game to be brought with you to the fantasy world.

Items you are actually trained to use. For one reason or another, you may be trained to use certain weapons, instruments, or other materials but may not actually own them yourself or are currently in short supply. You are allowed to bring these with you to the Campaign, and are assumed to have proficiency in them, including the knowledge of how to maintain, operate, and use them properly and responsibly.

Player A has a bachelor’s degree in Engineering, and wishes to bring her undergraduate textbook, thinking that knowledge of real-life science would allow her to develop technologies that would otherwise be unavailable in a medieval setting. Player B, who is a Chemist by profession, chooses to bring a chemistry textbook he can understand, but doesn’t currently own, with the same plan in her mind. Player C, who is hobby musician, decides to bring his accordion with him, hoping this strange instrument will assist him and win over audiences by being exotic to the fantasy world, even if he cannot play it properly. Player D is trained as a classical violinist, but doesn’t currently have one, yet decides to add this as her instrument to her equipment list. Player E is a construction worker by profession, and decides to bring his hard hat to the fantasy world, because it is something he routinely uses at his workplace. In all these cases, it can be reasonably assumed that the Players either have or possess the items they want to bring, use these items on routine basis, or are actually capable of using them, so unless they contest each other on the matter, they should all be allowed to bring these items with them.

Cautionary example: It is one thing to own a firearm, for example, but it’s another thing to be a trained marksman who knows how the weapon works and how to clean it properly. Since this is a campaign somewhat tied to reality, the knowledge of what to do if a rifle jams, how to prevent it from succumbing into rust, and how to fire with it without hitting a party member can make a huge difference in survival. This is why choosing classes, backgrounds and equipment are not matters to be taken lightly; an intelligent DM can make sure that a healthy dose of reality will dampen your odds.

G. Skills and Proficiencies

After selecting your classes and backgrounds, you gain proficiency in the skills associated with them. You must, to the best of your ability, select skills that would reflect your proficiencies in real life when you choose your class skills (your two proficiency skills gained from background are automatic, and cannot be changed). Like with all other things, this can be contested, but overlaps are inevitable and should be accepted.

IV. Optional Rules and Additional Guidelines

At the DM’s discretion, the following rules and guidelines may apply:

A. No Heterogeneous Party

The DM may opt to lift the rule regarding duplicates of classes and allow more than one person to pick one class, or allow characters to begin at level 2 and multiclass to create a character more in line to their real-life professions or fields of expertise.

B. Random Classes for the Undecided

Instead of creating Sorcerer characters for those who cannot select or determine a class, the class can be determined randomly, or alternatively, the players who wish to select a class can roll a d20 and compare the higher value to be able to play the class (rerolling in the event of ties until a clear selection is made).

C. Past Selves Option

Players may opt, with the permission of the DM, to play a younger version of themselves that suits a different class, background, or alignment that is still faithful to their real-life selves. In this case, age, height, weight, and other characteristics are adjusted accordingly.

D. Suggestions for Classes

Note: The skills listed below are from the Player Handbook. A DM may need to customize them according to the actual backgrounds of the players in reality.

Barbarian – defined by “using the power of raw strength and skill”, a Barbarian class could be assigned to: people with spiritual faiths (such as Native Americans or Shinto practitioners), berserkers, professional wrestlers, people with anger management issues, people who never finished high school or equivalent degrees, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Animal Handling, Athletics, Intimidation, Nature, Perception, and Survival.

Bard – defined by “using the power of words and music”, professional musicians, poets, orators, actors, speechwriters, people who work in embassies, social activists, people with degrees in multiple fields (but no specialization), people who studied fields of interdisciplinary nature (international studies, liberal arts, hybrid degrees of two or more fields), and the like. Choose any three skills to be proficient in.

Cleric – defined by “using the power of belief in a deity”, seminarians, religious authorities, registered clergy, priests who spread the faith, nuns and sisters, doctors by profession, people who openly practice faiths (with organized religions), people with degrees in philosophy, theology, or mythology. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: History, Insight, Medicine, Persuasion, and Religion.

Druid – defined by “using the power of nature and animals”, a Druid class could be assigned to: environmentalists, zookeepers, herbologists, professional horticulturists, pet trainers, people with degrees in natural sciences (but especially botany, zoology, biology, life sciences, environmental sciences), and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, Animal Handling, Insight, Medicine, Nature, Perception, Religion, and Survival.

Fighter – defined by “being an exceptional combatant”, a Fighter class could be assigned to: combat-oriented soldiers, weapon-oriented soldiers, weapons experts, people with degrees in military tactics or military history, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, and Survival.

Monk – defined by “being a practitioner of asceticism and training”, a Monk class could be assigned to: priests or nuns who remain in monasteries or cloisters, people who train in Asian martial arts with spiritual elements, fung shui experts and geomancers, hermits, people with degrees in eastern philosophy and religion, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Acrobatics, Athletics, History, Insight, Religion, and Stealth.

Paladin – defined by “using the power of an oath and moral principles”, a Paladin class could be assigned to: police officers, military personnel, doctors by vocation (healing the sick and the weak), lawyers by vocation (defending the poor), priests who travel (missionaries for the marginalized), anyone with a personal oath and profession tasked to “serve and protect” (and who stands by this oath no matter what), wide-eyed idealists, and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, Medicine, Persuasion, and Religion.

Ranger – defined by “being a protector of nature and the wilds”, a Ranger class could be assigned to: professional geographers, pathfinders, wilderness experts, mountaineers, spelunkers, cartographers, foresters, homesteaders, woodspersons and outdoorsmen, forest rangers, and the like. Choose three among the following skills to be proficient in: Animal Handling, Athletics, Insight, Investigation, Nature, Perception, Stealth, and Survival.

Rogue – defined by “being able to use stealth to achieve ends”, a Rogue class could be assigned to: detectives, private investigators, investigative journalists, diplomats, people who work in embassies, trained gymnasts and acrobats, pathological liars, specialists of disguise, people with degrees in multiple fields (but one or two fields of expertise), and the like. Choose four among the following skills to be proficient in: Acrobatics, Athletics, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Perception, Performance, Persuasion, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth.

Sorcerer – defined by “being of strange, wondrous or fortunate ancestry of origin”, a Sorcerer class could be assigned to: people with royal heritage, prodigies, savants, people who have won in the lottery, abandoned orphans, and any players who cannot find a class that would otherwise suit them (wild magic from the scenario gives them their powers). Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Persuasion, and Religion.

Warlock – defined by “using and depending on the power of a patron”, a Warlock class could be assigned to: lawyers by profession, employees of a large corporation with a prominent CEO, people who believe in the existence of faeries or aliens (or other obscure supernatural beings who are not gods or goddesses with formal religions), people who are dependent on the support of a patron (financial or otherwise), conspiracy theorists, people with degrees in business and management. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, Deception, History, Intimidation, Investigation, Nature, and Religion.

Wizard – defined by “using the power of study and research”, a Wizard class could be assigned to: teachers, professors, people in the academe, researchers, scholars, people with above-average IQ, people with any degrees in higher education beyond college level (masters, PhD, etc.), and the like. Choose two among the following skills to be proficient in: Arcana, History, Insight, Investigation, Medicine, and Religion.

E. Suggestions for Backgrounds

Note: The skills listed below are from the Player Handbook. A DM may need to customize them according to the actual backgrounds of the players in reality.

Acolyte – An Acolyte background could be assigned to: pious devotees to any organized religion with set places of worship, those who regularly attend events or activities related to organized religions, people with degrees in theology who practice their religions, and the like. Skills: Insight, Religion.

Charlatan – A Charlatan background could be assigned to: hustlers, peddlers of psudeoscience or contraband products, people with degrees in business and management (but especially marketing), and the like. Skills: Deception, Sleight of Hand.

Criminal – A Criminal background could be assigned to: anyone with a criminal record, anyone who regularly engages (or has regularly engaged in) illegal or unlawful activity, anyone who was found guilty in a court of law, and the like. Skills: Deception, Stealth.

Variant Criminal: Spy – A Spy background could be assigned to: journalists, dataminers, truth seekers, conspiracy theorists, and the like. Skills: Deception, Stealth.

Entertainer – An Entertainer background could be assigned to: anyone who works with audiences for entertainment, people who work in circuses or casinos, professional performers, people with degrees in mass media or and communication arts. Skills: Acrobatics, Performance.

Variant Entertainer: Gladiator – a Gladiator background could be assigned to: professional athletes, gymnasts, professional wrestlers, professional martial artists, olympians, athletes for sport and competitions (and not just physical well-being). Skills: Acrobatics, Performance.

Folk Hero – A Folk Hero background could be assigned to: rebel leaders, activists, disaster relief and response units, farmers and farmhands, low-level politicians from humble upbringings, and the like. Skills: Animal Handling, Survival.

Guild Artisan – A Guild Artisan background could be assigned to: blue collar workers, people with degrees from vocational schools, people with small or medium enterprises built around arts and crafts, and the like. Skills: Insight, Persuasion.

Variant Guild Artisan: Guild Merchant – A Guild Merchant could be assigned to: door-to-door salesmen, telemarketers, travelling peddlers, business consultants, and the like. Skills: Insight, Persuasion.

Hermit – A Hermit background could be assigned to: people who live in seclusion, conspiracy theorists, and the like. Skills: Medicine, Religion.

Noble – A Noble background could be assigned to: people who belong to prominent or wealthy families, and the like. Skills: History, Persuasion.

Variant Noble: Knight – A Knight background could be assigned to: people who own land and have tenants who cater to them, and the like. Skills: History, Persuasion.

Outlander – An Outlander background could be assigned to: people who travel and move constantly, people who go mountain climbing or trekking, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Survival.

Sage – A Sage background could be assigned to: academics, research assistants, interns, professors, employees in the academe, researchers, librarians, and the like. Skills: Arcana, History.

Sailor – A Sailor background could be assigned to: seafarers, people who own ships or boats, lifeguards, marine biologists, people with professions related to bodies of water, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Perception.

Variant Sailor: Pirate – A Pirate background could be assigned to: people who have engaged in criminal activities related to water or piracy, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Perception.

Soldier – A Soldier background could be assigned to: people who have completed mandatory military service, professional soldiers, and the like. Skills: Athletics, Intimidation.

Urchin – An Urchin background could be assigned to: people who grew up in the cities, people with poor origins, and the like. Skills: Sleight of Hand, Stealth.

© 2016 DiceDiceBaby (with the help of members of the Giant in the Playground Forums!)

[mgshamster]

Looks great!

The only thing is add is that there are background customization rules in the PHB that the GM and players can utilize to generate their own background.

[DiceDiceBaby]

Looks great!

The only thing is add is that there are background customization rules in the PHB that the GM and players can utilize to generate their own background.

Alright, thanks! I added that in using the two notes in the guidelines of the original document. :smallbiggrin:

Anyone else want to add input? I'm still open to comments.

It also suddenly hit me that maybe modern-day players need to start off at a higher level than 1 for the sake of selecting creatures with the proper Challenge Rating. Then again, while I can imagine a team of four armed professionals taking down a CR 2 Black Bear in reality (therefore implying that they would be level 2 in D&D terms), this may not apply to most people. Any opinions on this? Or is level 1 a fine benchmark?

[Addaran]

Can't believe I didn't think of that earlier, i'd bring a moutain bike! It's one of the modern item that could work well even in a medieval setting(it's jsut mechanical parts). Then you find gnomes to study it and make you more for when they break (or get rich by selling the idea of bike so they can mass-produce and sell them).

Easy travel that doesn't need food and protection. And you can leave them at the entrace of a dungeon (hidden) for weeks without fearing someone will steal or eat them like horses.

You'd have to mostly stick to merchant roads between cities, but still great.