Alignment and how to play it.

[Anime Squirrel]

So, i have a death cleric character who serves the raven queen and is on her adventure reaping the fated souls withe her great axe scythe astride her black warhorse clad in black armor. It gives off an obvious evil vib, but as of yet i havent done anything evil.
My reservations come from what used to be a black and white moral system disallowing evil characters from doing good. I want to have her be an evil ish character cuz f the laws of the land im an incarnation of death and fate.
How would i go about having an evilish style of mindset when my party is the "good guys"

[pwykersotz]

Easiest way, change nothing about your actions, but take just a little too much glee in the reaping of said souls. It'll be unnerving without being obnoxious.

[swrider]

When I DM characters I like to role play their actions as "being good in their view".

In your case your character is trying to harvest souls for the raven queen. You can accomplish this by helping souls pass onto the other side. Not just in battle. But during role play in town. Instead of healing villagers you assist them in passing along an act which you see as fulfilling your duty and good.

My advice would be to think of what motivates and inspires your character and then have them take actions to further those goals.

A good character may help the town being overrun with a plague by healing the sick and fighting back. An evil cleric may "help" the town by burning it to the ground as they are obviously fated to death.

[Anime Squirrel]

I think im already doing that :D. The other members of the group have made comments on how creepy i can be when i kill something . Especially if said something lit my characters short temper.

[Anime Squirrel]

When I DM characters I like to role play their actions as "being good in their view".

In your case your character is trying to harvest souls for the raven queen. You can accomplish this by helping souls pass onto the other side. Not just in battle. But during role play in town. Instead of healing villagers you assist them in passing along an act which you see as fulfilling your duty and good.

My advice would be to think of what motivates and inspires your character and then have them take actions to further those goals.

A good character may help the town being overrun with a plague by healing the sick and fighting back. An evil cleric may "help" the town by burning it to the ground as they are obviously fated to death.


So something like a euthanasia type behavior were to me im doing good because of my calling but normal society frown upon it. But the "greater good " is getting accomplished.

[swrider]

So something like a euthanasia type behavior were to me im doing good because of my calling but normal society frown upon it. But the "greater good " is getting accomplished.

Exactly. I find it too difficult to try and be evil. It is much simpler to twist the characters views of what good is.

[Tanarii]

First of all, familiarize yourself with what Alignment and personality mean in 5e. Alignment is part of character personality, and it describes your moral & social attitudes. Those attitudes result in a typical, but not perfect or consistent, behavior. Those behaviors are one sentence descriptions in the PHB. Then you go on to create the rest of your character personality: Personality, Ideal, Bond and Flaw. Those, combined with Alignment, comprise your character's personality traits. Together, they help you as a player decide how to play.

So what you do is read the evil alignment typical behavior for the type of evil you are, then consider that along with the Personality, Ideal, Bond and Flaw for your character, and that's how you can act.

So in order for us to help you:
Have you decided what particular evil alignment you will be?
What Personality, Ideal, Bond and Flaw have you decided on? Which haven't you decided on?

Once we know those, we can help you figure out how to play the character. Or you can just ad-hoc it all, and everyone opinions will be all over the place. They'll be telling you what they think it means to play an 'evil' character, but it won't actually have anything to do with 5e Alignment or personality.

[gfishfunk]

When coming up with character actions to match alignment (as a DM as well as a player) I always start and end with the evil goals. Evil for the sake of evil is boring as a villain and as a player.

So....decide on several things. Here are some ideas -

I would chose ONE of the following to focus on:

1. Evil goal: what evil goal do you have? Why do you have it? What good and bad thing are you willing to do to achieve this goal? Then, if it is not in pursuit of the goal, be 'good' in other regards.
2. Evil means: what good goal are you willing to pursue that would justify your evil means? How many atrocities are you willing to commit?
3. Evil philosophy: If you do not have a specific goal and you do not have evil means available, do you have a philosophy that is inherently evil? Might makes right? There is no greater good than your own personal pleasure, even at the expense of others? The law is absolute, and violators must be punished absolutely? Etc?

Then tack on ONE of the following to add depth:

1. Good habit/demeanor: what one thing does your character consistently do as a matter of practice that is considered GOOD even though the character is evil? Is he / she a great tipper? Does he / she automatically assume friendship and comradery with everyone?
2. Strong bond of friendship: easiest mistake to make as an evil character is to say that he or she will backstab someone at the drop of a hat. Why not add in some true friendships? A few people that represent the only line that your character will not cross?
3. Strong Connection to a Lawful Code of Conduct: While these might tend to err in the side of good, it adds depth when used for evil. The character honors one-on-one combat, but will not grant mercy. The character will punish a robber by chopping off their hands and then setting them free. How weirded out will your DM be if you refuse to kill the bandits, but march them into town, declare their crimes, and then chop off both of each bandits' hands?

[Regitnui]

I put the axes of the alignment table as "Concerned for others" - "Self-concerned" and "Strict code" - "Free-Spirited" when explaining it to others. If your character falls between one or the other regularly, you're neutral.

A "grim reaper" type character is neutral. Death comes to all in time, or as Terry Pratchett's Death said: "There's no Justice. There's just Me." An Evil reaper takes delight in what they do, actively seeing death (or undeath) as preferable to life (or undeath). If they travel in the Great Wheel, where you go to an alignment-appropriate plane on death, they might even believe that they're doing you a favour by killing you. Why stay on the Material Plane where there's hunger, strife, heartbreak and pain when you can move on to the spirit realm where there's none of these things?

[swrider]

How weirded out will your DM be if you refuse to kill the bandits, but march them into town, declare their crimes, and then chop off both of each bandits' hands?

I would love if a player did this in my game and would love to use it on a player (one hand only though).

[Talamare]

Lawful Good in PHB - creatures can be counted to do the right thing as expected by society.

This means that if your society (The Raven Queens Society) sees reaping fated souls as a Good thing, and something to be expected. Then you're Lawful Good.
Lawful Evil in this society would be that you're either not reaping fated souls (assuming they go on to suffer if not reaped), or you're reaping more souls, including unfated ones for pleasure or for power.

Lawful Evil in PHB - creatures methodically take what they want, within the limits of a code, tradition, loyalty, or order.

[Anime Squirrel]

The characters philosophy is All life must eventually end . The Raven Queens "mercy" for the sick and dying is death. My job is to reap those fated to die when my goddess instructs me, and to saves those who are not fated to die. Again as instructed. These instructions are given via a note book. My Death Notebook is the absolute, everything else is essentially fair game. From society's viewpoint I kill seeming randomly without cause and instead of healing the desperately sick i may reap them instead to end suffering. She has a short temper and has no problems brutally decimating anything that trys to stop her from her task.

[RickAllison]

The characters philosophy is All life must eventually end . The Raven Queens "mercy" for the sick and dying is death. My job is to reap those fated to die when my goddess instructs me, and to saves those who are not fated to die. Again as instructed. These instructions are given via a note book. My Death Notebook is the absolute, everything else is essentially fair game. From society's viewpoint I kill seeming randomly without cause and instead of healing the desperately sick i may reap them instead to end suffering. She has a short temper and has no problems brutally decimating anything that trys to stop her from her task.

I actually have a similar thing going with my werebear Long Death monk. Normally, she prefers grappling and otherwise restraining enemies rather than outright killing them, but she accepts that death is a natural part of life and is always happy to extend a quick claw to end someone's suffering, or because their time on the material realm is finished. She serves Isis as an envoy of life, though she is often dispatched as her servant to end that of evildoers. She also does some on-call work for Anubis when he must be discreet...

[djreynolds]

So, i have a death cleric character who serves the raven queen and is on her adventure reaping the fated souls withe her great axe scythe astride her black warhorse clad in black armor. It gives off an obvious evil vib, but as of yet i havent done anything evil.
My reservations come from what used to be a black and white moral system disallowing evil characters from doing good. I want to have her be an evil ish character cuz f the laws of the land im an incarnation of death and fate.
How would i go about having an evilish style of mindset when my party is the "good guys"

Evil is selfish, refuse healing when possible and lie about. Lie, lie, lie. Cheat and steal. You do not have to be overtly evil. Chaotic evil, no one wants a part of them. Neutral evil can be counted on to what is best for them. Lawful evil gets away with what they can, they just pay less taxes.

But remember evil people still rear families. They have wives and sons and daughters and husbands. And though it is a good act to defend and raise your family, perhaps your expectations and punishments are severe. Your family is subservient.

Also just scaring the village populous for no good reason then to scare them on black armored horse, well its not good. It cool, and maybe a little wrong.

Try to look at evil, as just wrong and good as right. Evil is such a vague term. Just do wrong, be selfish, make others work for you and your gains. Manipulate.

Charge for healing services, etc. You can do good, but at a price. Over charge for your services.

[Gtdead]

I think it's the small things that make the evil alignment shine. I mean, if you just kill or lie, eventually this will get noticed. Also I doubt that this will play that well with your group.

Basically what seperates evil from neutral/good is the willingness to kill. You can offer healing services for free, and only kill those that won't be missed (no family/friends, very old, or outcast). You can even deceive them, telling them that you can help them ascend in different form or something. You'll probably need high persuade/deceive for stuff like that.

You can also get crafty with the geas spell. Force other people to murder for you or suffer the concequences. You will reap your souls either way.

Of course these all depend on how much "me time" the dm gives you. The players will know what you do, but the characters won't. While in group your options are limited in suggesting the more extreme solutions to a problem claiming that it's the efficient solution, or find interesting ways to deal with prisoners.

Last thing you can do is say to the party that you are essentially good, but you are in a rough predicament. You are forced to do what you do because of a debt passed to you under certain circumstances (father, mother, grandfather, whatever). Create sympathy and perhaps the other characters in your party will be more agreeable.

[Anime Squirrel]

Charge for healing services, etc. You can do good, but at a price. Over charge for your services.



Om actually already doing this. It was more of a way to get the party to be less reliant on a not so healbot but i think i will use this to my advantage.

[swrider]

Don't forget to check your book before saving a pc who's making death saves ;). Though to avoid conflict they should always be spared.

[Millstone85]

When I DM characters I like to role play their actions as "being good in their view".
A "grim reaper" type character is neutral. Death comes to all in time, or as Terry Pratchett's Death said: "There's no Justice. There's just Me."Yes, psychopomps are often portrayed as seeing themselves above petty notions of morality. They are agents of the natural order and that automatically ends any debate. This might be why the Raven Queen is listed as lawful neutral.

Another quote from Terry Pratchett that I find relevant in that context: Vimes had heard that good and evil were just two ways of looking at the same thing - or, at least, so said people traditionally considered under the category of "evil".


My Death Notebook is the absolute, everything else is essentially fair game.Is it possible that your character's alignment might be nowhere near the alignment of their deity? What kind of person are they in between missions?

[Anime Squirrel]

Her out of combat personality So far has been fairly laidback but somewhat vain. Focusing on her aesthetics and hygiene over most other things. She drained the life drom a guy becuase his blockade was preventing from taking a bath foe the first time in a week of adventuring and god slaying.

[Millstone85]

It gives off an obvious evil vib, but as of yet i havent done anything evil.
She drained the life drom a guy becuase his blockade was preventing from taking a bathPerhaps I am once again running into that "evil vs bad" subtlety of the English language (in which case I might soon start reinterpreting the good-neutral-evil axis as good-bad-evil) or maybe your campaign allows a life drain to be roughly equivalent to a Vulcan nerve pinch, but this feels like a contradiction. :smalleek: :smallconfused:

Assuming she didn't outright kill the guy, what stopped her? He wasn't on her goddess' list; Other party members wouldn't work with her after that; The stench would have ruined her bath?

In 4e, I played a warlock who I originally envisioned as extremely loyal to a handful of creatures, primarily to an outer god, but otherwise well on the bloodthirsty side. This is what I think 5e would call "chaotic evil with bonds". Could you character be similar?

[Anime Squirrel]

Perhaps I am once again running into that "evil vs bad" subtlety of the English language (in which case I might soon start reinterpreting the good-neutral-evil axis as good-bad-evil) or maybe your campaign allows a life drain to be roughly equivalent to a Vulcan nerve pinch, but this feels like a contradiction. :smalleek: :smallconfused:

Assuming she didn't outright kill the guy, what stopped her? He wasn't on her goddess' list; Other party members wouldn't work with her after that; The stench would have ruined her bath?

In 4e, I played a warlock who I originally envisioned as extremely loyal to a handful of creatures, primarily to an outer god, but otherwise well on the bloodthirsty side. This is what I think 5e would call "chaotic evil with bonds". Could you character be similar?

In the life draining scenario, the blockaders wernt in the notes but there was a very large raven intent on getting my attention neer there toll station. Later we found the were bad guys. And no it didnt ruin the bath. NPCs just left me as lone for a while. One of my party, a drug making ultra paranoid halfling, warns people that im really creepy and to not piss me off.

[Regitnui]

I think that draining someone of life (aging? Inflicting poor health? Wasting their muscles?) because they're between you and a bath is a pretty Evil thing to do. Not because an infernal would do it, but because it's an extreme reaction and focused on self-concern.

The other alignments would probably;
- Good: Interrupt and explain that she really doesn't have time for him.
- Lawful: Listen politely, then head for the inn as soon as the guard gives her permission.
- Chaotic: Push past the guard, have her bath and deal with the guard later.

Note that these aren't the only options, just general reactions. Harming someone for doing their job because it's inconvenient for you is a fairly Evil (not unsympathetic) thing to do.

[djreynolds]

Play without guilt. Do not let others challenge your decisions. It role-playing, have fun.

Evil is tough to play, really. We are all good people. You are gonna have to act. Role play. If you feel guilty, well for purposes of acting, you can't. Talk with the DM off-line about consequences to the actual game, out of game stuff. And see if he can allow
"little evil bridges" you must cross to actually prove you are playing it right, or wrong. But do not ruin the game for others. Out of game just let your friends know if its too much, you cut back a little.

IMO, a paladin played well can cause as much dismay as can an evil person.

Sometimes the pre-made games don't really encompass evil play and negative future consequences and he may have to incorporate something extra. Killing off a villager may require the DM adding in a vengeful relative.