Zelgadis suggestions?

[Aleolus]

Ok, so I'm curious. If someone were to want to build a character modeled after the character Zelgadis from Slayers, what would be the most fitting mix of race, templates, and classes? My initial reaction would be to use Half-Fiend and Half-Golem on a human and have him advance as a druid, but I'm curioua what other people would think.

For those of you who haven't seen the series, Zelgadis is a powerful mage who uses shamanistic magic, and who underwent a number of magical experiments when he was young which left him 1/3 human, 1/3 golem and 1/3 demon

[Janthkin]

Druid isn't compatible w/his sword use.

I'd probably do a gish build (maybe Wu Jen based, to capture the shamanistic feel better?).

[Deophaun]

He will need ranks in Profession: Anchor. Also, some way to avoid the -2 penalty for disguising himself as a member of the opposite gender. Possibly a bonus.


Druid isn't compatible w/his sword use.


Druids are proficient with the following weapons: club, dagger, dart, quarterstaff, scimitar, sickle, shortspear, sling, and spear.

[Janthkin]

http://itamejihada.net/cels/slayers/slayers/zelgadis_with_sword_tn_sc.jpgNot a scimitar.

[The Glyphstone]

Spirit Shaman would be a better class choice than Druid; it uses the Druid spell list, but doesn't have the Druid restrictions on weapons/armor use.

[Deophaun]

http://itamejihada.net/cels/slayers/slayers/zelgadis_with_sword_tn_sc.jpgNot a scimitar.
I see nothing in that image that supports it not being a 1-handed slashing weapon that deals 1d6 damage with an 18-20/x2 critical range. Do you have a different picture you would like to try that includes the numbers?

Besides, nothing prevents him from using an elf as a base if you tink that's actually a 1-handed slashing weapon that deals 1d8 damage with a 19-20/x2 critical range. Or blowing a feat if there is a specific die and crit-range that you feel that image proves.

Spirit Shaman would be a better class choice than Druid; it uses the Druid spell list, but doesn't have the Druid restrictions on weapons/armor use.
The Spirit Shaman is even more restrictive on weapons, as it has no sword profieiency. And Zelgadis doesn't wear armor or use shields, so the druid prohibitions are irrelevant.

[Fizban]

Zelgadis demonstrates no traits that would make him a Half-Demon or Half-Golem in dnd. All he really has is a stony hide, worth a few point of natural armor, probably not even damage reduction or he'd care a lot less about weapons hitting him. Easiest and most satisfying is Mineral Warrior template from Underdark: it's (overly) cheap at LA+1 and you get it by being magically experimented on (the spell is in the book). It has natural armor, damage reduction, stat boosts, and also gives you a burrow speed which will let you pop out from under the rubble cartoon style if you manage to survive a cave-in (basically the whole template is crazy strong).

Before continuing, I'd point out that trying to duplicate a magic based anime character is really hard, since they frequently ignore action economy, who's turn it is, any sort of obvious spellcasting limits, and class spell lists. The easiest thing to do would be to select a base class chassis that seems reasonable (like Battle Sorc, Bard, or Psychic Warrior), then pick whatever spells/powers get the job done ignoring normal lists (and homebrewing new spells when needed) and trust that your group can work together and fix any balance problems that may crop up (if they even do).

Now for class, the show may claim he's a shaman but he casts mostly the same combat spells as Lina. I can't quite remember if she healed anyone, but the main difference was their most powerful finisher spells- where his (and Amelia's) are apparently somewhat limited by creature type? Spirit Shaman is a decent class with access to blasting, though the actual class features aren't a good fit and most importantly: no divine classes have giant energy shields like they do in the show all the time. If this doesn't bother you then Spirit Shaman is gonna be the easiest.

Otherwise what you want is Battle Sorc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer), since it's nigh impossible to get a significant portion of arcane spells onto a divine list. Battle Sorc reflects more marital training than a sorcerer while maintaining full caster level. Sorcerer gives you access to Wings of Cover (Races of the Dragon), which is the spell that lets you make a defensive barrier when it's not your turn and is ridiculously good. If you start him out as a Silverbrow Human (Dragon Magic) before applying Mineral Warrior, your Wings of Cover will be able to shield friendlies that are standing next to you. Having dragonblood would also let you swap your familiar for Draconic Heritage, saving you a feat if you want any of those feats. It would probably also lock you into Silver heritage, but the Air Walk spell you can learn from Draconic Legacy (Silver) lasts longer and is more appropriate for prolonged aerial fights than Fly (though Overland Flight is even longer and still faster than Air Walk unless you boost your land speed) You can take whatever blasting spells strike your fancy, other force spells like Resilient Sphere and Wall of Force if you want more barriers, Fly, and so on. You main problem will be a rather annoying lack of spells known.

You can shore up your spells known and increase your "magical experiment" angle with the Bloodline feats from Dragon Magazine/Dragon Compendium, which grant you a bunch of spells over time but generally don't have a good selection. If you invest in your wisdom stat and take Arcane Disciple (Complete Divine), you can pick up those few divine spells we actually see him use. Or you can try convincing your DM that the feat Extra Spell (Complete Arcane) should allow you to take any spell you want, which is not what it's supposed to to but people will argue it and some DMs allow it.

You can also shore up your spells with magic items: Knowstones (Dragon Mag), Drake Helm (Explorer's Handbook), Runestaff (Magic Item Compendium).

I can't remember the name of the top-tier spirit magic spell they used, but it was basically only supposed to work on demons and magical stuff right? Sounds like a variation on Holy Smite. There's a higher level Righteous Smite in Book of Exalted Deeds, but it's annoying to get since it's a spell from a bad domain and should be in a different one, but an Exalted Arcanist can learn it and also gains access to the full Sanctified spell list as known spells, and combining Purify Spell with Bolt of Glory (see also Spell Compendium for updated Bolt of Glory) results in a lot of damage to Evil Ousiders. This'll cut your BAB and hp by a smidge and your casting by another level (don't forget your LA+1), but if you think of his "shaman" fluff as meaning "lots of divine spells," this is one of the more effective ways to do it.

Speaking of prestige classes, if you're going for power you'll want Abjurant Champion in there, since it's literally better than anything else for a gish build.

A combat trick I remember Zel doing a lot later on was channeling spells into his sword so he could do enough damage to threaten serious bad guys. There's a metamagic feat for that, Smiting Spell (PHB2) has the spell hit the next person you strike, but IIRC his sword buffing lasted for multiple hits and was more of a "my sword is now awesome!" effect. The spell Scalding Touch from Magic of Eberron does a lot of damage and strikes multiple times (it's a more powerful version of the core Chill Touch), but does not apply to a weapon. You could try asking for a homebrew spell that goes on a weapon instead of your hand (requring a normal attack instead of just a touch attack), but be warned that the numbers on Scalding Touch are likely to scare many DMs even without your weapon damage on top. Alternatively, get access to one of the more powerful weapon buff spells like Bane Weapon or Holy Sword.

So in sum: Mineral Warrior+base race of choice, Spirit Shaman if you're not fussed about duplicating the show, Battle Sorcerer+lots of jumping through hoops if you are.

It's worth noting that an Abjurant Champion/Exalted Arcanist build spamming Wings of Cover and carrying extra spell known items is approaching maximum power for a versatile sorcerer build (it's only a couple steps away from Saph's, for anyone who's read that campaign journal). It makes mincemeat of action economy with swift abjuration (and can go up to Arcane Fusion and Arcane Spellsurge), ignores who's turn it is with Wings of Cover (and could go further if you allow the Celerity line of spells), and of course has plenty of spell slots to cast the extra spells they've learned at the drop of a hat.

Bonus: remember I mentioned PsyWar and Eruidite? Well psionic spell points is a much better fit for dramatic spellcasting where you just cast until you're out of gas. You can also learn powers not on your normal list with the Expanded Knowledge feat without a house rule, and a lot of the restrictions in Complete Psionic (re: Mantle powers) can be ignored by using the Mind's Eye web articles (there are healing powers in Complete Psionic as well). As I said above, an Eruidite with the Spell-to-Power variant can simply learn any spells that you can't replace with a power (like Wings of Cover), and has no trouble using the Slayer presitge class to improve BAB like any other psionic/gish build. But once you start using StP Eruidite you're basically just making up the rules yourself, which is what I suggested in the first place.

[Aleolus]

*Words*

Wow. You certainly have put a lot of thought into this.

I am aware of the difficulty in converting an anime character (especially a magical one) to D&D, I'm looking more for one that approximates his feel than one that can do everything he does.

As for his magic, iirc, Shamanism focuses mainly on spells that deal with the "Astral", so to speak, which I interpret as being force effects and force-similar effects.

Btw, his top spell is called the Ra Tilt, just fyi

[Ellowryn]

Yeah, and here i thought i put a lot of time into making Slayers characters.

Actually, i would definitely see him as a martial adept gish as he can go toe to toe with Gorry at least for a little bit while still having decent casting. Warblade/Sorcerer or Spirit Shaman/Jade Phoenix Mage (heavily refluffed but wateves) fits his self buff style.

The biggest problem with nailing down his casting style is that they break magic down into 3 systems: White, Black, and Shamanistic. As a whole they are spontaneous casters but they have the option to take spells from any of the three styles (subject to their own innate talents and styles).

[Prime32]

So, Slayers has five main kinds of magic (http://kanzaka.wikia.com/wiki/Magic):

Shamanism: Elemental spells powered by nature, divided into Earth, Air, Fire, Water and Astral. Astral spells work exclusively on the astral plane, and the other elements work exclusively on the physical plane (humans are physical beings with astral shadows while demons are the other way around, meaning that astral spells don't do much to humans but are the only form of shamanism which hurts demons). Examples: Flight, Flare Arrow, Elmekia Lance
Black Magic: Spells which draw on the power of a demon to destroy, summon or curse things. Attacks through the astral plane, but any excess energy bleeds over onto the physical plane (meaning if you cast Dragon Slave directly on a demon, and the demon is strong enough to survive, it won't create an explosion because there's no power left over). Demons are immune to spells which call on their own power. Examples: Dragon Slave, Dynast Bras, Gaav Flare
Holy Magic: The good counterpart to Black Magic. Due to a barrier around the continent Slayers is set in, humans can no longer access Holy Magic and it is seen only in the hands of Gold Dragons. Examples: Laser Breath, Chaotic Disintegrate, Holy Resist
White Magic: An extremely specialised form of Astral Shamanism, developed as a substitute for Holy Magic when it became no longer available. Requires different training from regular Astral Shamanism. Examples: Recovery, Unlock, Holy Bless
Chaos Magic: In D&D terms, spells which draw on the power of the Lady of Pain. Incredibly powerful, but places a heavy toll on the caster's body and can be disastrous if miscast. There are only two known spells of this type (Ragna Blade and Giga Slave), and Lina is the only person who can cast them.

And the party breakdown goes something like:

Lina uses mainly Black Magic, though she can also cast basic White Magic, high-level Fire Shamanism spells, and at least mid-level Shamanism spells of other types. She has a short sword, but she's not great with it.
Amelia uses White Magic and Astral Shamanism. She also invented the astral spell Visfa Rank, which charges her fists and feet with energy that can harm magical beings.
Gourry is a master swordsman with a legendary sword and no spellcasting ability. It's said that he actually has high magical potential, but no aptitude as a wizard because he wouldn't be able to remember the spells.
Sylphiel, when she shows up, has incredibly powerful White Magic but only in the form of defensive and healing spells. If she tries to cast an offensive spell like Flare Arrow, she just shoots a glowing carrot that deals no damage. Later she learned how to cast Dragon Slave (and only Dragon Slave) without running into this issue... but Dragon Slave is too powerful to be useful in most fights.
Zelgadis uses high-level Shamanism of all types, mid-level Black Magic, is the second-best swordsman of the group, has superhuman strength, speed, durability and hearing, and is also the party skill-monkey (he's displayed knowledge of things from lockpicking to ballistics to cartography). His signature spell is Astral Vine, which energises his sword to put it on the level of a powerful magic weapon.

I think the best way to represent Zelgadis might actually be Factotum (using Mineral Warrior Tiefling as the base race).

[Slayer Lord]

So, Slayers has five main kinds of magic (http://kanzaka.wikia.com/wiki/Magic):

Shamanism: Elemental spells powered by nature, divided into Earth, Air, Fire, Water and Astral. Astral spells work exclusively on the astral plane, and the other elements work exclusively on the physical plane (humans are physical beings with astral shadows while demons are the other way around, meaning that astral spells don't do much to humans but are the only form of shamanism which hurts demons). Examples: Flight, Flare Arrow, Elmekia Lance
Black Magic: Spells which draw on the power of a demon to destroy, summon or curse things. Attacks through the astral plane, but any excess energy bleeds over onto the physical plane (meaning if you cast Dragon Slave directly on a demon, and the demon is strong enough to survive, it won't create an explosion because there's no power left over). Demons are immune to spells which call on their own power. Examples: Dragon Slave, Dynast Bras, Gaav Flare
Holy Magic: The good counterpart to Black Magic. Due to a barrier around the continent Slayers is set in, humans can no longer access Holy Magic and it is seen only in the hands of Gold Dragons. Examples: Laser Breath, Chaotic Disintegrate, Holy Resist
White Magic: An extremely specialised form of Astral Shamanism, developed as a substitute for Holy Magic when it became no longer available. Requires different training from regular Astral Shamanism. Examples: Recovery, Unlock, Holy Bless
Chaos Magic: In D&D terms, spells which draw on the power of the Lady of Pain. Incredibly powerful, but places a heavy toll on the caster's body and can be disastrous if miscast. There are only two known spells of this type (Ragna Blade and Giga Slave), and Lina is the only person who can cast them.

...

I think the best way to represent Zelgadis might actually be Factotum (using Mineral Warrior Tiefling as the base race).

I always thought Slayers had the groundwork to make a great tabletop RPG, especially since it's origins come from D&D. Too bad the one we did get was...not very good.
Anyway, the Factotum Mineral Warrior suggestion would probably be your best bet for a lot of Zel's feel, but if you refluff Psion as magic it would capture the feel of Slayers spellcasting a lot better. If you don't mind using stuff from Pathfinder, you might try the Magus class, since it's pretty gishy and one of its core powers is putting magic into a weapon to enchant it. Either way, the only way you're really going to get a somewhat accurate spell list is by mix and matching from different spellcasting classes, preferably with some help from your DM so it doesn't get too crazy. And if he or she hasn't watched Slayers as well, then maybe pick out a couple episodes with big battles so they get a good feel for it. (although if they haven't watched Slayers, you should make them watch it all anyway just on principle, but that's besides the point). Holy Smite as your Ra Tilt finisher is much approved.

If I remember correctly, during the fight with Ruby Eyes in the first season, Zel used a pretty high end earth spell to conjure lava. There's some lava spells out there right? Like Transmute Rock to Lava or Lava Splash or something, or am I thinking of Homebrew stuff?

[Fizban]

You see, the Zelgadis problem combines elements from many problems of character emulation all into one awesome package. Because it requires you to break all the rules, every new way you find to break a rule is applicable, and any cross-knowledge you have from tricky builds can apply (even if you weren't already interested in the character for some reason). Incidentally, are you looking more for a strict RAW build, or anything that works? Cause I've got all kinds of stuff here.

Wall of Magma and Transmute Rock to Lava aren't too bad, I feel Deadly Lahar is too hit or miss but it's certainly castable (SpC and Complete Mage), there are lava spells in Serpent Kingdoms but I recall them being rather terrible, and there are some more heated rock spells around (Kelgore's Firebolt, Haze of Smoldering Stone, Earth Reaver, probly a few more). I really can't see representing any caster character as a Factotum though, it's just not a caster, not enough juice. Base Class Chameleon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?90955-Chameleon-as-a-Base-Class-%28PEACH%29) (homebrew) is capable of doing basically any combo character you could ever want, up to 7th level casting/maneuvers. If you never intend to change aptitudes you might count is as a sort of "build your own class" and consider substituting the spell/prayerbook/prepared restrictions in order to match the desired character, though considering the effectively free skill and ability points that might be too overpowered (the class itself certainly should be compared against the best).

Contemplative can get any domain added to a Spirit Shaman with a single level, which could be used to obtain Righteous Smite (and become immune to disease!). BoED had the Wrath and Glory domains, the first contains Righteous Smite while the second has Bolt of Glory. Spell Compendium has both domains but does not include most BoED spells, so the Wrath domain loses Righteous Smite (which wasn't all that appropriate for it), while the Glory domain gains Holy Smite and Holy Sword. If you take the Complete Divine/SpC version of Glory and use Righteous Smite at 7th instead of Sunbeam the whole domain comes together perfectly and also does exactly what we want. This gives Spirit Shaman Zel an array of "astral" spells in Holy Smite/Bolt of Glory/Righteous Smite that are most effective against negative plane/evil outsiders/undead, and a weapon buff spell that goes about as high as it gets (+5 and holy). The only minor problems are Disrupt Undead being a terrible 1st level spell (it's actually 0th, replace it with Light of Lunia if you want the domain to be good at all levels) and the domain power buffs turning he doesn't have. (Moon Bolt is another druid spell that could work for "astral" damage). Oh, and other possible Ra Tilt spells: Leonal's Roar and Word of Balance? In the vein of "the most powerful spell" but not actually that useful against bosses with a ton of hit dice.

Edit: breaking news! I'd forgotten about another source of bonus domain, the Divine Disciple from PgtF. It doesn't happen any earlier than Contemplative in ECL, but it does have better HD/BAB and gives a few other nice bonuses which aren't too character-breaking (telepathy with like-minded outsiders, bonus on saves vs divine magic and outsiders, and Imbue with Spell Ability 1/day for some reason).

Ordained Champion is the Abjurant Champion of divine casters (except it actually loses casting levels). If Zel waits until after taking Contemplative, he can use OC to trade the glory domain power for a fighter bonus feat, shore up his overall BAB by about +1, access the War domain for Divine Power, and gain swift casting for all War domain spells. This comes at the cost of 2 casting levels but also includes a move action Smiting Spell ability with no restrictions or costs, way better than the metamagic feat. Heironeous of course has War, and Glory (in Complete Divine), and you could be an Elf or take Ruathar for Longsword proficiency.

Spirit Shaman may also be one of the better options for using extra domains: prepared casters are restricted to a maximum of one domain spell prepared at each level, while most spontaneous casters must spend their limited spells known. Spirit Shamans are not mentioned in that section at all, but the natural extension is that they add the domain spells to their class list as normal, choose a domain spell on their Retrieved list, and then cast it spontaneously as many times as desired.

If Zel wants some Turn Undead in order to use the other OC abilities, this is unfortunately difficult. The usual Sacred Exorcist requires casting Dismissal or Dispel Evil, neither of which are Druid list. You could try counting the Spirit Shaman's Exorcism ability, but that doesn't show up until 13th class level when my current build has Spirit Shaman stopping at 10th. Dipping Cleric or some PrC with it's own turning would cost a 3rd caster level.

With Spirit Shaman those last few casting levels really count, since they control how many spells you Retrieve. Normally you max out at 3 of every level, except 2 for 9th. Losing even one casting level means you cap out 8th level spells at 2, losing two casting levels mean your 9th spells cap at 1 and your 7th at 2, and losing three casting levels means your 8th spells are also down to 1. And all of that is at combined level 20, not counting racial hit dice. The point being that if you see Zelgadis as having a large array of high level spells, Spirit Shaman is the wrong choice and losing casting levels martializing the build will make it even worse. On the other hand, if his spellcasting basically stops at 7th-ish that cuts off problem spells like Gate and Elemental Monolith which wouldn't be appropriate.

We could throw out Spirit Shaman and go with Spontaneous Divine Casters (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm), but it would need a ruling regarding bonus domains. It's quite clear that Complete Divine wants bonus domains to never ever grant extra spells known, but if your DM overrules that and says that an SDC knows all their domain spells period, then you can make extra good use of Contemplative and Ordained Champion. If not, you can still cherry pick the main spells you need and add them to the Druid list. While we're at it, make him a Swift Hunting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid) Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger), because literally every one of those tradeoffs is appropriate: no companion, no armor, no wildshape, no summoning, yes get angry, yes fast movement, yes being the only guy who pays enough attention to track properly.

Or you could start with Cleric and try filling out your elemental spells using your two Cleric domains (remember there are plenty of Flame Strikes/Fire Storms, Stone Shape/Wall of Stone/ect, Boreal Wind, Darkflame and Ice Axe all on the main Cleric List). Switching to SDCs doesn't help the small number of high level spells known unless you're a Cleric or get the DM to give you all your bonus domain spells for free. But I don't think this works nearly as well.

Or how about we go even further: you want knowledge? We got knowledge, it's called the Archivist. Ignore all the spell lists and learn whatever you want as long as any class has printed it for a divine caster and you can buy (or wish up) a scroll. Find a divine prestige class with d8's and 3/4 BAB, drop a 1 level ToB dip (at 5th) then go to a 3/4 BAB class and your main BAB won't be too bad. Possibly use Sacred Exorcist to get turning and enter a variant Ruby Knight Vindicator for casting and manevuers, and don't forget you're not required to take the full class (RKV 5 grants 2 maneuvers and plenty of initiator level to fuel Martial Study). Fist of Raziel is good with full BAB, 9/10 casting, smite never really break character, but harsh to enter with BAB+6 and feats.

Is it worth going to prepared casting in order to ignore spell lists? Personally I'd say no. Right now I'm leaning heavily toward Spontaneous Swift Hunting Druidic Avenger with Contemplative 1 for tweaked Glory Domain, and a side of Ordained Champion to taste. It's basically got it all and is playable from level 1*. One thing that hasn't been mentioned: Mineral Warrior penalizes all mental stats by -2, so pairing it with Lesser Planetouched (Player's Guide to Faerun) is probably best to negate that: Aasimar offsets both wis and cha, while Tiefling offsets int but makes cha even worse.

*Though when it comes to duplicating spells, the druid list still isn't great. It really doesn't have much in the way of Slayers style blasting, which would be mostly Scorching Ray, Fireball, and Firebrand from what I remember, all sor/wiz spells. Sticking to the druid list gives us a shamany feel and guarantees access to a wider array of elemental themed spells, but still limits us to Splinterbolt, Energy Vortex, and Flame Strike for that sort of blasting. Matching Lina (sor/wiz) and Zel's (druid) attack spells would require shifting them to ice: Icelance, Ice Storm, Storm of Fire and Ice. The best Druid blasting spells are generally giant rocks rather than energy, and are usually druid exclusive. If a big part of the feel of the Zelgadis build is using the same blasty spells as the "primary arcanist," then we're back to Battle Sorc again.

I have some notes here indicating there's a cleric variant in Dragon 311 that trades all its domains, domain slots, turning, and drops HD/armor to d6/medium, in return for getting a sor/wiz spell at each level and bonus feats like a wizard. While still half what a sorcerer or wizard gets, that would be enough to grab all the arcane spells you need, while still retaining a decent number of elemental spells on the cleric list and allowing easy entry into basically any prestige class listed above to add spells and/or increase fighting ability.

There is also of course the Vancian to Psionic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?194002-3-5-A-Translation-of-Vancian-Spellcasting-to-Psionic-Mechanics) option, but I do not endorse it fully since I don't agree with many of the shall we say, personalized class and spell fixes included (he cut the wizard's spells known way below Psion, made the sorcerer's wild surge insane, and dropped [energy]ball to 2nd level when psionics has it at 4th for example). Still, he's done most of the leg-work in converting PHB spells and assigning augments+costs, which you can mix in with psionic powers and use with the psionic base class of your choice. Useful if you want to get everything on a points system though still not helpful in getting a RAW build match.