Chnging alignment, Good to Evil

[Monkalo]

I'm just starting a new campaign as a tiefling monk. I imagine her as an ex-monk turned street brawler, using her skills to fight for money after being essentially told that she’s not monkhood material and getting kicked out. Her alignment right now is chaotic good to reflect a) her general attitude of recklessness towards life and b) the however small influence imposed on her by her time spent at the monastery. The teachings there swayed her to protect others when she can, but that’s by no means her driving goal. I had an idea that, because the tiefling bloodline tends towards evil on the whole, maybe as the campaign goes on and she spends more and more time away from the monastery and in the real world (ha ha), her natural tendencies will nudge her towards evil. The DM already okayed it, so basically I’m looking for tips on how to believably play her as she slides further down the slippery slope, as it were.

I checked out a couple other threads before posting, specifically “Alignment and how to play it”, and I like the ideas there. I want to make it gradual, obviously, not like flicking a switch, and I don’t want to be an off-the-wall kicking-puppies-into-volcanoes kind of evil. More along the lines of I start finding pleasure in random unfortunate events (my tiefling’s virtue name is Schadenfreude), maybe smiling a bit too widely after punching someone in the face repeatedly, and work up from there.

My other major concern is not derailing the campaign (too much). The DM has told us to keep our alignments secret unless we wish to let the others know, but I have a feeling that at least two of the other players are good, one perhaps even lawful. A little butting of the heads is cool with me, but I want to keep the game fun.

Another thought I had as far as the monk aspect is concerned, is about Ki and Monastic Traditions. By slowly giving in to her inherent evilness, I imagine that the deity whom she spent so much time avowing herself to will not be pleased. Are Ki and Monastic Traditions tied to the god’s power? Will I lose them as I slide into darkness? If so, are there any workarounds?

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to read this and especially to those who reply.

[RickAllison]

I'm just starting a new campaign as a tiefling monk. I imagine her as an ex-monk turned street brawler, using her skills to fight for money after being essentially told that she’s not monkhood material and getting kicked out. Her alignment right now is chaotic good to reflect a) her general attitude of recklessness towards life and b) the however small influence imposed on her by her time spent at the monastery. The teachings there swayed her to protect others when she can, but that’s by no means her driving goal. I had an idea that, because the tiefling bloodline tends towards evil on the whole, maybe as the campaign goes on and she spends more and more time away from the monastery and in the real world (ha ha), her natural tendencies will nudge her towards evil. The DM already okayed it, so basically I’m looking for tips on how to believably play her as she slides further down the slippery slope, as it were.

I checked out a couple other threads before posting, specifically “Alignment and how to play it”, and I like the ideas there. I want to make it gradual, obviously, not like flicking a switch, and I don’t want to be an off-the-wall kicking-puppies-into-volcanoes kind of evil. More along the lines of I start finding pleasure in random unfortunate events (my tiefling’s virtue name is Schadenfreude), maybe smiling a bit too widely after punching someone in the face repeatedly, and work up from there.

One of the classic descents into darkness is stooping to lower and lower levels to accomplish good. The descent from Captain America, to Wolverine, to the Punisher. Once you've reached the dark depths of doing good, how are people treating you? If they treat you as a hero, then great! Otherwise, you can channel that resentment. A character who was willing to brave the darkest corners of morality to protect the people who now reject her, that seems like a perfect time to transition to an Anti-Hero, and then finally to full-on villain territory!


My other major concern is not derailing the campaign (too much). The DM has told us to keep our alignments secret unless we wish to let the others know, but I have a feeling that at least two of the other players are good, one perhaps even lawful. A little butting of the heads is cool with me, but I want to keep the game fun.

Another thought I had as far as the monk aspect is concerned, is about Ki and Monastic Traditions. By slowly giving in to her inherent evilness, I imagine that the deity whom she spent so much time avowing herself to will not be pleased. Are Ki and Monastic Traditions tied to the god’s power? Will I lose them as I slide into darkness? If so, are there any workarounds?

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to read this and especially to those who reply.

Ki and Monastic Traditions have nothing to do with deities. They are about training the body and spirit to reach beyond mortal limits, and so are completely divorced from divinity.

[Tanarii]

Alignment doesn't change in 5e, at least by default. You pick it when you start and it gives you a one sentence decryption of typical, but not perfect or consistent, behavior to take into consideration along with your Personality, Ideal, Bond and Flaw. That doesn't mean you can't do it, it just means if you want to do it in any way that is relevant to what 5e alignment means, you have to take those things into account. Otherwise you're just free form RPing your character and the question you're asking isn't actually about 5e Alignment at all. It's just about how to free form RP the thing you want to do, based on your and other people's opinions about evil, which have no relation to the game's definition of what it means to be L/N/C Evil alignment.

Chaotic good in 5e just means that as you play, you take into account that such characters typically, but not perfectly of consistently, behave in the following fashion: Chaotic good (CG) creatures act as their conscience directs, with little regard for what others expect. That's what it means to be Chaotic Good in 5e.

If you want to be evil instead, you'd to move towards the typical, but not perfect or consistent, behavior that matches. Assuming you're remaining chaotic, you'd go through Chaotic neutral (CN) creatures follow their whims, holding their personal freedom above all else and end up at Chaotic evil (CE) creatures act with arbitrary violence, spurred by their greed, hatred, or bloodlust.

The other thing to consider is your Personality, Ideal, Bond and Flaw. First, because you need to know if they're going to change, and how. And second, because in 5e they work in conjunction with the above typical alignment behaviors to define your personality as a whole, and help you decide how your character will act in any given situation. Alignment alone is an incomplete picture of your character. It'd be helpful if you could tell us what those are, and if they're going to change?

That last is also important because if you haven't thought about your characters Personality/Ideal/Bond/Flaw, again you're free forming RP (and personality), and your question doesn't really have anything to do with 5e Alignment/Personality. It's a question on RP a fall from grace scenario, based on some non-game definition of 'evil', in which case you might want to define what the latter means to you.

[Millstone85]

Another thought I had as far as the monk aspect is concerned, is about Ki and Monastic Traditions. By slowly giving in to her inherent evilness, I imagine that the deity whom she spent so much time avowing herself to will not be pleased. Are Ki and Monastic Traditions tied to the god’s power? Will I lose them as I slide into darkness? If so, are there any workarounds?I noticed that page 205 of the PHB presents "arcane magic" as the magic of wizards, warlocks, sorcerers, bards, fighters (eldritch knights) and rogues (arcane tricksters), while "divine magic" is the magic of clerics, druids, paladins and rangers. There is no mention of monks, which would indicate that ki is its own special form of magic.

[JackPhoenix]

D&D monks are based on (popular depiction of) Shaolin and eastern monastic martial artists, not european monks. They have nothing to do with gods, though they can if you want to...there are some gods in different setting that have monastic traditions (I remember Zuoken from 3.5, he had something to do with psionic and monks, Church of the Silver Flame from Eberron have its Argent Fists, evil Mockery also had lot of monks (it's favored weapon even was a kama))

[Gtdead]

Monks are not tied to religion that much so that shouldn't be a problem, unless it's a part of the dm's world or something.

Have you considered playing a Hannibal Lecter style of character? Killing for artistic reasons and considering those beneath you as animals. Your inclinations don't even have to get in the way of the party.

[Slipperychicken]

The way I've had the most fun is by playing my characters without thinking about alignment at all. I don't ask myself "does this fall under the 'lawful good' category of actions?", but instead I ask questions like "Is this consistent with my character's moral outlook? Would he do it anyway? Is he even thinking about morality right now?". At best, alignment is a very flawed way of categorizing characters. At worst, it can straightjacket your roleplaying into one of nine static images.

As for planning out character arcs in advance, I don't recommend that. It can feel contrived, especially when the character's life isn't moving in the direction you thought it would. You're best off making your character fit clearly into the context of the world, putting it out there, and allowing it to develop freely as it interacts with the game's events.

[Tanarii]

At best, alignment is a very flawed way of categorizing characters. At worst, it can straightjacket your roleplaying into one of nine static images.What's really weird is you criticize alignment then immediately follow it with doing exactly what the PHB personality system is designed for: giving you a set of tools to help consider if your character would even be thinking about morality, and if so what behavior is typically consistent with that morality.

The PHB alignment and personality system, if you actually go read it, consider how it's intended to be used, and try it in play, is not a flawed system. It's an awesome and powerful tool to help with getting in character. The same way that actors do it, just more formalized, and far more powerful because of it. It is hands down a more powerful way of doing things than any backstory. Because it's a list of 5-6 motivations that the player has come up with for the PC, clearly divided across five distinctly different categories covering a range of possible types of motivations. That gives characters breadth and depth.

[Shaofoo]

In this version you shouldn't think about alignment too much. Alignment is way too broad of a scope to define it to one character. If you read the excerpts for alignment in the books your character might even fall into various alignments since they aren't mutually exclusive to one another.

If you want to make your character eventually descend into "darkness" then play that and forget about alignment because absolutely nothing is affected by alignment in this version (the only thing is maybe a couple magic items that the DM might or might not put in the game if he goes by the books). There is no way the players should know each other's alignment unless the Dm comes up with something or you reveal that you worship an evil god (and that isn't guaranteed, you could be neutral).

If you care about alignment that much then start off already some flavor of evil and play it off as good because your inner being is evil. It is as I reason that a farmer whose greatest desire is to pillage and murder the countryside but can't because he is unable to go far without getting murdered himself is chaotic evil even if society is keeping him in check.

[Serket]

The teachings there swayed her to protect others when she can, but that’s by no means her driving goal.
...
My other major concern is not derailing the campaign (too much). The DM has told us to keep our alignments secret unless we wish to let the others know, but I have a feeling that at least two of the other players are good, one perhaps even lawful.

The journey is one of relative selflessness, to one of relative selfishness. And that is actually pretty easy to do in play. Just, you know, slowly stop giving a crap about other people. :smallsmile: It's easier this way round than the other, because the game mechanics rewards the player for playing neutral evil, which is a pretty big push over campaign time. Just let her get increasingly distracted by her own wants, and it should work fine.
(I do seriously advise to move to neutral evil rather than chaotic)

Also, since the game pushes parties this way anyway, you probably won't disrupt anything. I mean, there's nothing about being neutral evil that says you won't work equitably with people. You just have to see advantage in maintaining a good relationship with them.