Should I feel bad about not TWF as a Warblade partaking in Tiger Claw [3.5]

[Teapot Salty]

Hey guys. So it's a well known fact that Tiger claw is highly geared toward two weapon fighters, but a lot of it's maneuvers don't care what you use, and the MADness and feat investment of the twf line don't appeal to me. So my question is:Will I get the same mileage out of tiger claw if I DON'T twf, and instead pick up a big honking greatsword, and if I won't, will the extra three feats and less need for a dex investment make up for it?

[Necroticplague]

Hey guys. So it's a well known fact that Tiger claw is highly geared toward two weapon fighters, but a lot of it's maneuvers don't care what you use, and the MADness and feat investment of the twf line don't appeal to me. So my question is:Will I get the same mileage out of tiger claw if I DON'T twf, and instead pick up a big honking greatsword, and if I won't, will the extra three feats and less need for a dex investment make up for it?

Well, you won't really get much mileage out of the "attack with weapon in each hand" ones, for obvious reasons, and you won't make as good use of the full-attack maneuvers, but you ovverall still would work well. THF>TWF, and this remains true in this scenario. You can think of it as saving you maneuvers known (since some are now useless to you). The amount of resources it saves you is definitely enough to consider.

[Calinar]

Honestly, Tiger Claw has some nice treats for 2-hand users as well. The jumping strikes work better for 2-handers than dual welders, sudden leap is great in general, some decent debuffing strikes, as well as some good combat and utility stances. The 9th level maneuver is better for 2-handers because of the Str based save or die.

[Pluto!]

Never feel bad for not dual wielding in 3e.

[HunterOfJello]

As all good jumplomancers know: anyone will forgive you if you can jump high enough.

[Marlowe]

Just a little wrinkle: Some of the manuevers say you have to be wielding two weapons. They don't actually say you have to ATTACK with two weapons (except for, obvious, the basic Wolf Fang Strike where attacking with two weapons is all it does). And the "other weapon" might be something like Improved Unarmed Strike or (preferably, if you have a greatsword) Snap Kick.

It's not really that Tiger Claw requires two-weapon fighting to use, it's that it helps make it more viable. You might say that Shadow Hand (and to a lesser extent Diamond Mind) are the schools for high-dex low-str people, but there's nothing stopping a 6'5" brute with a Greatmace getting very good results from them.

[Darrin]

Tiger Claw is actually only about half TWF. The other half is "make a jump check and then a single attack with +X bonus damage".

That being said, you *can* TWF with a greatsword or greataxe, and still use armor spikes or unarmed strikes as your offhand attack.

[Troacctid]

Yeah, taking Wolf Fang Strike to use with a greatsword and armor spikes is pretty good DPS for low levels.

[Necroticplague]

Just for completeness sake, I cracked open my ToB and went through to show maneuvers you can't use. Dash-through indicates you can't use it, asterisk means "technically, can do this with one weapon, but is better with more". Nothing indicates it works at full-power with only one weapon. Assuming not going with something like Armor Spikes or UAS, because that defeats the purpose of not taking the TWF line.


Blood in the Water* (benefits from having more attacks to increase chances of critting)
Claw at the Moon
Dancing Mongoose* (benefits from having more weapons)
Death from Above
Feral Death Blow
Flesh Ripper
Fountain of Blood
Girrallion Windmill Flesh Rip
Hamstring Strike
Hunter's Sense
Leaping Dragon Stance
Pouncing Charge* (benefits from having more attacks)
Prey on the Weak
Rabid Bear Strike
Rabid Wolf Strike
Raging Mongoose* (benefits from having more weapons)
Soaring Raptor Strike
Sudden Leap
Swooping Dragon Strike
Wolf Climbs the Mountain
Wolf Fang Strike
Wolf Pack Tactics* (benefits from more attacks)
Wolverine Stance (can't use two-handed weapons in a grapple)

So, in total, you lose the ability to use 3 maneuvers, have reduced effectiveness with 5, and have 15 still working perfectly fine (or in many cases, actually better). That still seems like enough to make the concept viable.

Side-note: the maneuvers that let you make a Jump check in place of an attack roll can be used to get free Power Attack (Making an attack roll, no, so no penalty to hit. Still making a melee damage roll, so you get the benefit). Thus, you actually get more benefit out of using these with a two-handed weapon. And obviously, any maneuver that only lets you make one attack is done better with a two-handed weapon.

[Troacctid]

Just for completeness sake, I cracked open my ToB and went through to show maneuvers you can't use. Dash-through indicates you can't use it, asterisk means "technically, can do this with one weapon, but is better with more". Nothing indicates it works at full-power with only one weapon. Assuming not going with something like Armor Spikes or UAS, because that defeats the purpose of not taking the TWF line.


Blood in the Water* (benefits from having more attacks to increase chances of critting)
Claw at the Moon
Dancing Mongoose* (benefits from having more weapons)
Death from Above
Feral Death Blow
Flesh Ripper
Fountain of Blood
Girrallion Windmill Flesh Rip
Hamstring Strike
Hunter's Sense
Leaping Dragon Stance
Pouncing Charge* (benefits from having more attacks)
Prey on the Weak
Rabid Bear Strike
Rabid Wolf Strike
Raging Mongoose* (benefits from having more weapons)
Soaring Raptor Strike
Sudden Leap
Swooping Dragon Strike
Wolf Climbs the Mountain
Wolf Fang Strike
Wolf Pack Tactics* (benefits from more attacks)
Wolverine Stance (can't use two-handed weapons in a grapple)

So, in total, you lose the ability to use 3 maneuvers, have reduced effectiveness with 5, and have 15 still working perfectly fine (or in many cases, actually better). That still seems like enough to make the concept viable.

Side-note: the maneuvers that let you make a Jump check in place of an attack roll can be used to get free Power Attack (Making an attack roll, no, so no penalty to hit. Still making a melee damage roll, so you get the benefit). Thus, you actually get more benefit out of using these with a two-handed weapon. And obviously, any maneuver that only lets you make one attack is done better with a two-handed weapon.

Wolf Fang Strike really doesn't care if you have TWF feats, though. It's a -2 penalty regardless. You could be a diopsid dual-wielding greatswords, and it would still only be -2.

[martixy]

Well, tiger claw encompasses 2 distinct styles, only one of which focuses on TWF.

So the answer to your question is a firm no, you have nothing to feel bad about.