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Ronnocius
2016-03-05, 04:52 PM
I was looking through the back of the Monster Manual when I realized hat there were some pretty strange giant animals. I decided to analyse them and see if there was actually any practical use for them....

Giant Ape
Giant apes might seem sort of useful at first. However, when you look at their size (Huge) and their Challenge Rating, it makes you wonder what kind of crazy DM would send a behemoth ape at the players. I honestly don't really know why this would be used, aside from the D&D incarnation of King Kong.

Potential Uses:

Mason's Giant Traveling Circus comes to town, with the most exotic of animals captured from the hearts of rainforests and the middle of scorching deserts. Unfortunately, things go awry when the giant ape escapes its cage....

Deep in the Coconut Jungle, a massive ape rules over a tribe of lesser primates. The nearby villages plead for help when the monkeys steal their supply of fruit.

Verdict: This seems pretty pointless, I don't think I would ever use it, except as a joke.


Giant Badger
While a giant badger could have a handful of applications and uses, I still don't think it was really necessary. I was thinking it could be some sort of cool creature living in an abandoned den/cave the party needs access to, but it is very weak, so that's not happening.

Potential Uses:

An innovator is exploring the wilds when he suddenly finds a giant badger. Returning to his home, he starts a revolution. He decrees that the watch's hunting hounds and police dogs will no longer suffice, and are inferior to the possibilities of having creatures that can burrow. The captain of the watch asks the party to grab a few alive to tame them and test them in the field.

Enemies could use them as pets/tracking animals.

Verdict: Pretty useful, but would be better if they were stronger. Overall, the only use I can find for them is as pets/trackers, or maybe mounts for small creatures. I thought they could serve as a stand-in for an ankheg as a guardian for when the players explore a burrow or den, but they are very weak.


Giant Bat
Hmm. When I looked at this, a few ideas immediately went through my mind. They are pretty weak, but that's what I'd expect when I think of a giant bat.

Potential Uses:

Giant bats could be used for a variety of things. They can significantly add to a cave atmosphere, or can serve as a combat encounter. A colony of giant bats would be a terrifying encounter for a low-level party. An colony of bats fighting the party near drops (such as on a bridge over a chasm) could serve as an interesting fight, with the bats using hit-and-run tactics and grabbing players, tossing them down the chasm.

They could potentially be a pet/familiar of a villain, scouting for a larger army or spying on the party to report back to the villain.

Verdict: Very interesting, with a variety of uses and quite powerful in colonies on their preferred terrain.


Giant Boar
Not immediately interesting, but looking at its abilities it could serve as an interesting pet/helper of a villain, or as a solo encounter for low levels. Lots of possibilities as pets, even for players. I'm sure there would be plenty of shenanigans if a low-level party got their hands on a giant boar. :smalltongue:

Potential Uses:

The villagers of Georgia's Peak have spotted a giant boar. A nationwide hunt has started, with everybody trying to get a chance to kill the rare giant boar. Will the party attempt to find the elusive creature, or will they let a rival get the glory and fortune that comes with the boar's head?

The party hear from the local gossip that a giant boar was seen in the woods. Will they capture and tame it to get the edge they need on their enemy, or will they pass the opportunity up to get to the villain's lair that much faster?

Verdict: Actually very interesting and useful, despite my thoughts at first glance.


Giant Centipede
While wandering in the dark of the dungeon, the adventurer feels a slimy, wormy creature sliding up his leg before he is bitten with the giant centipede's poisonous bite. I can easily picture this creature. It's poisonous bite is interesting, and extremely deadly for a CR 1/4 creature. At low level a swarm of these monsters could easily send the party packing. While it seems more like a flavor monster than a combat one, its nice to have more things to populate your moist dungeons and stinky sewers with. They can also reside in woodpiles or under stones.

Potential Uses:

While following their enemy into the sewers, the adventurers bump into a squad of gigantic centipedes.

Minions of a carrion crawler/sewer creature.

To add to a sewer/gross atmosphere, or just found in a woodpile.

Verdict: A nice addition, but not terribly useful. Probably more useful as a device to set an atmosphere than a combat monster (even though it does have good combat abilities.) I think they did a good job with the poisonous bite ability.


Giant Constrictor Snake
This critter doesn't look too promising. It is a Huge creature, but only has a CR of 2. It seems to be a more powerful version of the giant poisonous snake, except with a Constrict attack and modified Bite attack. The regular constrictor snake is Large, which makes me think it is based after an anaconda.

Potential Uses:

In the ancient ruins of a long-lost jungle city, a humungous snake of incredible strength roams the crumbling dwellings, looking for a meal.

Could be a boss monster for low levels. Would be an interesting mini-boss, like a pet of the villain or the guardian of some ruins.


Verdict: Potentially useful, but really just a stronger version of the giant poisonous snake with a new attack. It's size either decreases or increases its usefulness, depending on its role in the adventure. It's constrict attack can be very interesting if the snake targets a lone party member. It is not very applicable, you would probably have to build a setting or adventure around it, not insert it into one, as it emits a "jungle" vibe to me. Overall, it can be interesting or useful, but only in certain situations.


Giant Crab
Is anything more disappointing than the giant crab? When I picture a giant crab, I think of a giant beast, like Cancer from mythology. Instead, we get a puny, Medium, CR 1/8 pipsqueak. Giant crabs could be very fun in many situations - guardians of a underwater temple, monster in the coral, pet of a underwater warlord or even a chuul's mount. Unfortunately, it cannot serve these functions very well. One issue I take with the giant crab is its size. When I picture a giant crab, I would picture a creature of Large size, not Medium. The crab's attacks are weak, doing very little damage and having only decent grapple save DCs. I would at least expect it to use multiattack! It's Armor Class is pretty low for a hulking crustacean. Its hit points are low too. I just don't know why the giant crab is so weak.

Potential Uses:

Recently a large number of local saltwater fishermen have gone missing. The marine biologists are frantically trying to discover the source of these disappearances. Will the party investigate?

The temple in Shoretown was once a prosperous place of worship and prayer. When a flood destroyed the town, the temple was not spared. It now lies at the bottom of the Aching Ocean, home to a cast of scavenging giant crabs.

Verdict: Personally, I find the giant crab very disappointing. I expected a Cancer-like creature of immense strength and size, but instead I found a small, weak CR 1/8 creature. They are still adaptable to any ocean encounter, but instead of a guardian brute they are individually weak monsters. Probably best used in groups.

I'd be interested in seeing other people's views/opinions on certain animals, as well as any feedback/criticisms you may have.

Inspired by this: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?431996-Let-s-Read-The-Dungeons-and-Dragons-5e-Monster-Manual!

Grey Watcher
2016-03-05, 04:57 PM
Giant Ape

...

Deep in the Coconut Jungle, a massive ape rules over a tribe of lesser primates. The nearby villages plead for help when the monkeys steal their supply of fruit.

Personally, I'd go with the Giant Ape wants help from the adventurers when his banana hoard is stolen by a tribe of Lizardfolk, but that's just me. :smalltongue:

Razade
2016-03-05, 05:00 PM
Personally, I'd go with the Giant Ape wants help from the adventurers when his banana hoard is stolen by a tribe of Lizardfolk, but that's just me. :smalltongue:

Donkey Kong is Large at best though.

Ronnocius
2016-03-05, 05:12 PM
Personally, I'd go with the Giant Ape wants help from the adventurers when his banana hoard is stolen by a tribe of Lizardfolk, but that's just me. :smalltongue:


Haha! This made my day. :smallbiggrin:

Millstone85
2016-03-05, 05:18 PM
I think the giant ape exists so that a spellcaster who just learned polymorph can let their fellow 7th level adventurers be King Kong.

Tanarii
2016-03-05, 05:22 PM
Yeah. I think a lot of creatures, especially Animals, exist for players, not DMs. Via Conjure or other Spells, or vs Druids Wildshape or Beastmaster Companions or Chainlock familiars.

MagusJeran
2016-03-05, 06:36 PM
I started polymorphing my fellow adventures into a Giant Ape instead of healing them. Completely turns the battle and is much more effective than a 4th level Cure Wounds.

gullveig
2016-03-05, 10:25 PM
Lots of entries in the Monster Manual are for old modules/adventures.

I think the Giant Ape a la King Kong is on Isle of Dread or Isle of the Ape... I don't remember.

Maybe the Giant bat is as well in some of those jungle adventures.

Ronnocius
2016-03-06, 10:27 AM
Lots of entries in the Monster Manual are for old modules/adventures.

I think the Giant Ape a la King Kong is on Isle of Dread or Isle of the Ape... I don't remember.

Maybe the Giant bat is as well in some of those jungle adventures.

There is a giant ape in Isle of the Ape, but I still don't think it should be in the Monster Manual.

SharkForce
2016-03-06, 11:34 AM
giant badgers make a lot of sense as allies for a forest gnome village, or similar.

giant apes sound perfectly fine if you're running a jungle campaign. outside of a jungle campaign, it would indeed seem odd to encounter them, but when you've got giant everything else, why not apes?

i mean, giant insects of various types are practically a staple of the game. why is a giant ant or a giant wasp somehow more fitting than a giant ape? they could easily be friends with any jungle-dwelling society (they're fairly intelligent and can understand language), and might even create a sort of village of their own. they could consider their territory to be theirs, and no humanoid creatures are allowed. they could be used as guards by various priests (good and evil) that live in the jungle, and of course, druids as well. they could make good servants for a jungle-dwelling powerful creature like some dragons (iirc greens like to live in forests?), or a couatl.

they're perfectly usable within the right environment. you might not generally focus on that environment, but that doesn't mean they have no use any more than a lack of focus on ocean adventures on your part would imply that sharks or krakens are not useful.

Ronnocius
2016-03-06, 12:28 PM
giant ant

This isn't in 5th Edition.

I don't know, I just think giant apes aren't that useful, especially because of how much stronger they are compared to other giant animals. Apes are the strongest giant animal in 5th Edition.


(they're fairly intelligent and can understand language)

They can? Unless creatures of a certain Intelligence score automatically understand languages, you're mistaken.

Regitnui
2016-03-06, 01:50 PM
Let's see... Giant apes are a jungle or forest creature. Don't underestimate our fellow primates, humanoids! Gorillas are rainforest creatures, but some apes live in temperate and even northern forests. Have a local 'King's Forest' or game preserve? Drop an ape in the path of your players. Don't forget, it isn't necessarily a gorilla. Drop its movement speed and extend its melee reach and you get a giant orangutan!

Giant badgers. First thing I thought was gnome. The rumour is that gnomes can actually trace their ancestry back to rodent ancestors rather than primate ones. What if the giant badger is to gnomes as gorillas are to humans and fey are to elves? Imagine a gnomish military unit mounted on giant badgers who come to the defense of any gnomes in the region!

PoeticDwarf
2016-03-06, 02:08 PM
Why the hate on the giant ape. Pretty cool right? Don't see the problem

Ronnocius
2016-03-06, 02:21 PM
Imagine a gnomish military unit mounted on giant badgers who come to the defense of any gnomes in the region!

That would be pretty awesome, but would the Medium giant badger be able to carry gnomes? That was why I was unsure whether or not to consider them as possible mounts.



Why the hate on the giant ape. Pretty cool right? Don't see the problem

My problem with the giant ape is that it isn't very applicable. Even if I had a jungle campaign, I wouldn't use a giant ape. The only scenario I can think of that a giant ape an be used in, other than the ones in the original post, is as a huge monster on some deserted island. It is CR 7, so you'd need pretty high level players to defeat it, especially if there's multiple.

I just don't understand why people have a need to defend the giant ape?


EDIT: Am I the only one who feels like giant badgers are a waste of potential? I mean, they would make really cool monsters living in dens, but they are really weak. Also, why does everyone think gnomes? I've only played 5th Edition, but I don't really see a connection between the two. When they were created were they always supposed to be gnome cavalry?

Regitnui
2016-03-06, 03:31 PM
That would be pretty awesome, but would the Medium giant badger be able to carry gnomes? That was why I was unsure whether or not to consider them as possible mounts.

If Medium humans can ride Large horses and Small halflings Medium velociraptors, why not Small gnomes Medium giant badgers? (Heh. Medium giant badgers. Reminds me of the Miniature Giant Space Hamsters.)


:Am I the only one who feels like giant badgers are a waste of potential? I mean, they would make really cool monsters living in dens, but they are really weak. Also, why does everyone think gnomes? I've only played 5th Edition, but I don't really see a connection between the two. When they were created were they always supposed to be gnome cavalry?

Er... In earlier editions, 3.5 in particular, gnomes had a certain kinship with other burrowing mammals, and could talk to badgers and similar creatures. Since gnomes live in burrows and badgers in setts (badger burrows), the link seems to be kinda like humans and wolves/dogs.

Also, the nation of Breland (Khorvaire, Eberron) has a division of their army mounted on bears. Magebred bears that are tougher, smarter and stronger than the average grizzly. Why should small races not have something similar? Can you imagine walking through a pleasant countryside when the illusions drop and youre surrounded by six gnomes wielding spears on giant badgers? I'd find that fairly surprising.

As a side note; Codex Alera has an entire tribe of barbarians who ride Gargants; badger relatives with tusks that stand taller than adult men. They're pretty awesome. Go check the series out.

Ronnocius
2016-03-06, 03:35 PM
Er... In earlier editions, 3.5 in particular, gnomes had a certain kinship with other burrowing mammals, and could talk to badgers and similar creatures. Since gnomes live in burrows and badgers in setts (badger burrows), the link seems to be kinda like humans and wolves/dogs

Ah, ok. Thank you for clearing that up. I "reviewed" the giant bat and boar, let me know what you think.

Regitnui
2016-03-06, 03:53 PM
Giant Bat: Beyond the popular Gothic superhero jokes, this guy cries out for being the 'guardian' for caves and underdark openings. Refluffed, it can act just as well as a pterosaur or basic drake. Perhaps the sfir svirnev svirnefblin(?) deep gnomes have a similar rapport with the giant bats near their homes as their surface kin do with the badgers. I'm not suggesting they ride the bats, but perhaps some sort of mutual defense?

I can see a svirnefblimps village have a number of giant and normal sized bats flying around as guards and pets. Would make for a spooky encounter in the Underdark.

As for the giant boar(dom), I don't have much of an idea here. The old European nobility used to hunt boars in the forest as sport (and dinner) because they were tough and scary creatures. They even had special swords for the pastime. If your players have to negotiate with royalty/nobility in a western fantasy setting, you could do worse than making part of the negotiation a wild giant boar hunt.

Remember that boars aren't carnivores; they're just really mean, nasty pigs with extra pointy bits. They're not above rooting through vegetable gardens, but are more likely to intimidate a potential threat rather than attack it. A party with a druid could have some moral problems taking on a comparatively peaceful beast.

lebefrei
2016-03-07, 08:30 AM
Any animal in the game is for druids, polymorph, and world flavor. Few if any will actually see combat as my monsters.

Giant badger exists to give the druid a higher CR burrow form, I assume.

PoeticDwarf
2016-03-07, 12:14 PM
My problem with the giant ape is that it isn't very applicable. Even if I had a jungle campaign, I wouldn't use a giant ape. The only scenario I can think of that a giant ape an be used in, other than the ones in the original post, is as a huge monster on some deserted island. It is CR 7, so you'd need pretty high level players to defeat it, especially if there's multiple.

I just don't understand why people have a need to defend the giant ape?


EDIT: Am I the only one who feels like giant badgers are a waste of potential? I mean, they would make really cool monsters living in dens, but they are really weak. Also, why does everyone think gnomes? I've only played 5th Edition, but I don't really see a connection between the two. When they were created were they always supposed to be gnome cavalry?
I've used them in a jungle campaign, this is an animal that's still smaller than most trees and it fits perfectly in most jungles. I mean, even the iconic mindflayer can be used less.

KorvinStarmast
2016-03-07, 03:26 PM
Remember that boars aren't carnivores; they're just really mean, nasty pigs with extra pointy bits. They're not above rooting through vegetable gardens, but are more likely to intimidate a potential threat rather than attack it. A party with a druid could have some moral problems taking on a comparatively peaceful beast. Pigs/boars are in fact omnivores. As to "comparatively peaceful beast" I suggest you check out the feral hogs in South Texas. They can cop an attitude in no time.

INDYSTAR188
2016-03-07, 05:19 PM
I think that giant beasts are pretty awesome really from a 'world-building' point of view. I also think they have an important role for PCs who interact with/turn into creatures. I am wondering, what's the difference between a giant and dire animal?

Ronnocius
2016-03-07, 06:31 PM
I've used them in a jungle campaign, this is an animal that's still smaller than most trees and it fits perfectly in most jungles. I mean, even the iconic mindflayer can be used less.

Really? How did it work out?

Kurt Kurageous
2016-03-07, 10:22 PM
The giant hyenas are pretty decent at grabbing a party member and running off. Note their speed.

The giant scorpion has a very strong poison and can take a hit.

Giant bugs make nice thematic encounters.

Regitnui
2016-03-08, 01:50 AM
Pigs/boars are in fact omnivores. As to "comparatively peaceful beast" I suggest you check out the feral hogs in South Texas. They can cop an attitude in no time.

Not carnivores, so won't be after the party or their mounts. Might chase you for your provisions, though.

Relatively peaceful; stay out of their way and they won't come after you the way most monsters or giant carnivores would.

I never said they weren't dangerous or threatening, just that they aren't the sort to go after you unless you go after them or their babies.


I am wondering, what's the difference between a giant and dire animal?

I think that the giant variant this edition replaces the dire template from previous editions. The 'dire' category in 3.5 included all sorts of larger or prehistoric animals that weren't technically 'dire' the same way that the initial MM's dire animals were. For example, megaceros (actual prehistoric animals related to moose) were included in Frostburn as an attempt at 'dire moose'. Similarly with the mastodon (dire elephant) and smilodon (dire tiger).

RickAllison
2016-03-08, 09:22 AM
Not carnivores, so won't be after the party or their mounts. Might chase you for your provisions, though.

Relatively peaceful; stay out of their way and they won't come after you the way most monsters or giant carnivores would.

I never said they weren't dangerous or threatening, just that they aren't the sort to go after you unless you go after them or their babies.


I would like to point out that the argument that non-carnivore = non-threatening is pure carp. Not crap, carp (useful under certain circumstances, but just not this one). The hippopotamus is a pure herbivore, yet it is feared as more dangerous in Africa than those lions and crocodiles because it can be highly aggressive. Although wild boars tend not to suddenly attack passersby, it can be rather easy to invade their territory and thus be attacked.

Fun fact: boars are extremely tenacious and cunning in a fight. A predator who attacks an RPG party and is rebuffed is likely to not bother attacking again unless no food is around; why would he when there are easier morsels to hunt? An angered boar, however, could dog the party indefinitely, seeking to maim or kill. Boars will go out of their way to gore a hunter even when pursued by a pack of dogs, they will try to attack humans fleeing up trees, and they will happily circle around in the darkness and charge the party from behind. Basically, it is rather easy to incite that first charge and, while a party well-versed in Nature would know not to attack, all it takes is one foolish barbarian to set the boar on a rampage to kill. When the barbarian does kill him, the death squeals attract other boars who the foolish barbarian or other non-Nature proficient PC are likely to attack when they are seen charging. In other words, the terms "relatively peaceful" can become invalidated very easily. Very few PCs will both pay attention to and have the knowledge to identify that they are in a boar's territory.

Regitnui
2016-03-08, 11:15 AM
I would like to point out that the argument that non-carnivore = non-threatening is pure carp. Not crap, carp (useful under certain circumstances, but just not this one). The hippopotamus is a pure herbivore, yet it is feared as more dangerous in Africa than those lions and crocodiles because it can be highly aggressive. Although wild boars tend not to suddenly attack passersby, it can be rather easy to invade their territory and thus be attacked.


That's the fun part. The Druid or the Ranger has a fair chance of knowing how not to anger the great big tusked pig staring them down, and the DM might have planned the encounter as a roadblock or pseudo-wall. The players attack the boar and, well, the DM's left laughing as they have to fend off a cunning pig that's determined to see them all dead. If it's in a recurring location or the party stays in the same area, the boar can show up any time, even mid-encounter with the green dragon of the forest! Just imagine the party's most threatening recurring villain being an angry boar!

SharkForce
2016-03-08, 11:22 AM
That's the fun part. The Druid or the Ranger has a fair chance of knowing how not to anger the great big tusked pig staring them down, and the DM might have planned the encounter as a roadblock or pseudo-wall. The players attack the boar and, well, the DM's left laughing as they have to fend off a cunning pig that's determined to see them all dead. If it's in a recurring location or the party stays in the same area, the boar can show up any time, even mid-encounter with the green dragon of the forest! Just imagine the party's most threatening recurring villain being an angry boar!

i've lost a character to boars before.

but bears, man. bears are dangerous. maybe it's because the DM just keeps rolling them for random encounters at low levels or something, but i've had more near-TPK experiences with bears than anything else.

lebefrei
2016-03-08, 02:29 PM
what's the difference between a giant and dire animal?

Dire Wolf is the only dire animal still in the DMG, and that is likely because it is a minor iconic D&D creature. The giant eagle, owl, and elk now have moderately below human average intelligence scores. They have a little fluff, but not much.

The answer is that we really don't know the lore reasoning behind this, and likely won't until we get a nature/primal book.

Regitnui
2016-03-08, 03:03 PM
Technically speaking, the dire wolf (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dire_wolf) is a separate relative to the modern wolf rather than being a 'dire' animal by D&D definitions. So there are no more dire animals in the MM, which is why I say the 'giant' animals seem to have replaced them.

oxybe
2016-03-08, 03:39 PM
historically speaking (in a D&D sense, at least) giant animals would be [base animal]++ while a dire animal is a more primitive version of the same thing.

the difference between a giant wolf and a dire wolf is that the former has the base abilities of a wolf, augmented for size while the latter is likely a somewhat bigger and tougher version, likely with better base stats and senses.

Ronnocius
2016-03-08, 06:47 PM
Giant Constrictor Snake will be analyzed today.