OOTS #467 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Pigboy]

Dude, that is so awsome! Can't wait to see what happens next! :smallfrown: Oh yeah! By the way I was so right. :smallbiggrin:

[Elephant]

Aww, Belkar just couldn't wait to toss out the insults.

Heh.

[Krytha]

Yay! :hinjo: Liiiiivvess!!!

[the300]

nice!! I love it!

[kpenguin]

"Insult of Opportunity"

Genius, pure genius.

[rosebud]

Wow, Belkar being smart. But why no request to have the mark removed? He's not helping that goal. Oh, well. At least Haley totally rocked. :smallsmile: And I loved Durkon, as always with his off-screen healing comment.

Oh, interesting -- they don't know Miko died yet. Are paralyzed characters able to see and/or hear? (In other words, is there a chance they can find out what happened through O-Chul if he survived? Or would they need to talk to someone like Soon to obtain the information of the battle?)

[Aimbot]

I like Belkar rants almost as much as I like comics that are almost on time. :biggrin:

[Wiione]

Loved Belkar. :smallbiggrin:

[MReav]

Heh...nice.

It'll be interesting to see if Hinjo really realizes what he's doing. Does running away from evil go so far as to break his possibly non-SRD paladin's code? Who knows?

Also...how are they gonna get Roy's body back...? :smalleek:

Simple, by going to where there aren't tens of thousands of hobgoblins and assorted baddies.

[Sol]

I've never agreed with Belkar so much before.

[Imrahil]

Why is it that Belkar manages to always steal the strips? No matter, it just makes him more and more my favorite member of the team. "Insult of Opportunity" has now been added to my lexicon.

[Hephaestus]

Old No-name stepping in and ruining Belkar's moments of genius again. I have a feeling those two no-name guards are going to be around for awhile.

[Swordguy]

Simple, by going to where there aren't tens of thousands of hobgoblins and assorted baddies.

But...his body is out there in the MIDDLE of tens of thousands of hobgoblins and assorted baddies. Or at least those aforementioned tens of thousands of hobgoblins and assorted baddies are between the noble Order and Roy's body.

[Metal_Storm]

Great Comic, good to see a paladin ignore the charge and smite impulse :smallbiggrin: .

[Ganurath]

You know, I thought Hinjo was intelligent at first. Squandering his heavy hitters on a futile battle, though? No wonder they lost if that's who's running things. He's no Redcloak, let alone a Hamster.

Fantastic comic, of course, with a lovely sollilique by the barbarian.

[goldgecko4]

Haha, god that was fun.

[Gavin Sage]

Knew I don't sleep for a reason.

"The Gambler" reference for the win

[Devoured_Dude]

It's nice to see that Hinjo is more flexible than Miko was. Was Belkar's "lovely shade of tan" comment a reference to Hinjo becoming a fallen paladin if he leaves the city?

[Haruspex]

So it looks like Hinjo and the no name guards are going to join up with OOTS. Should make for some interesting group dynamics, if they end up adventuring together.

[The Wanderer]

But...his body is out there in the MIDDLE of tens of thousands of hobgoblins and assorted baddies. Or at least those aforementioned tens of thousands of hobgoblins and assorted baddies are between the noble Order and Roy's body.

No, the tens of thousands of bad guys are in the city, after having charged through one of the breaches in the walls. Roy's body, on the other hand, is out on the plain outside the walls.

There may be a few hobs between the Order and their fallen leader, but not nearly enough to give them a problem.

[theinsulabot]

roy may be willing to die a hero, but i preffer to be a living one.



a rare zinger by haley, classic

[Thanatos 51-50]

I have played Paladins that have no qualms about retreating away from insurmountable odds, usually stating the following.


"I serve my God first, before all others. Suicide is not part of my religion."


<<EDIT: While I'm on the subject, one of my other favorite Paladin quotes is:
and this is OOC:


"I don't need a Holy Symbol to Turn Undead. I'm a Paladin. I AM a Holy Symbol!"


The DM accepted it, too. 'Course, he was a decently high-level.>>

[OmegaDonut]

"You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, and know when to run."

Where's that quote from? And was whoever who said it REALLY a fine maker of roast chicken?

[RNG]

Dammit, I knew I should have bought some OotS stock! Damn you, procrastination!

Actually, I really like the team up between such powerful characters, Hinjo is going to be a great addition to the team.

[Darth Stick]

What a moral dilemma for a paladin! Leave the fight so there is a chance to win or honor the code and stay to fight...

Great comic, Giant!

[Shott]

Heh, nice one. Doesn't look like Hinjo's going with the OotS after all.

[Aimbot]

Where is the eye of fear and flame?:smalleek:

[NeonRonin]

But...his body is out there in the MIDDLE of tens of thousands of hobgoblins and assorted baddies. Or at least those aforementioned tens of thousands of hobgoblins and assorted baddies are between the noble Order and Roy's body.

Well, technically Roy is still out on the open plains, and the entire hobbo army just entered the city. The Order is still on the outer wall, so it shouldn't be that big a deal to stealth out under cover of chaos. (Especially when the hobbos are already wearing their "I killed a PC and all I got was this stupid T-shirt" shirts.)

This was pretty nice, and as much as I hate to admit it, the right course of action. It doesn't feel good to leave people in need, but the American Revolution might have been lost rather quickly if Washington hadn't used the tactical retreat option as often as he did.

Oh, and Hinjo getting pwned by Belkar... priceless. "Insult of Opportunity"... I wonder if that's in a Fighter College textbook, or the Sneaky PC's Guide to One-Upping the NPCs. :smallbiggrin:

[WutAmI]

Hinjo's gonna join OOTS, I just know it.

[No_constraints]

"You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, and know when to run."

Where's that quote from? And was whoever who said it REALLY a fine maker of roast chicken?

That's the chorus from "The Gambler", an old Kenny Rogers song. I have no idea what the chicken line is about, however.

[mockingbyrd7]

Old No-name stepping in and ruining Belkar's moments of genius again. I have a feeling those two no-name guards are going to be around for awhile.

True. They seem to have good heads on their shoulders and could spur a lot of good NPC jokes (like tonight's comic, or like the one where Belkar suggested they launch them out of catapults.)

Haley, Belkar, and Hinjo really shone in this one; Haley was a very convincing voice of reason and is really stepping up to the plate in her role of temporary-leader. Belkar was hysterical in the last four panels, and was actually sporting trace elements of wisdom.

[Nazzo, the 102nd]

Okay, Rich. I liked it. Seriously. Plot moving, Belkar humor, very fan-friggin-tasticly cool.

But, please, next one, bring us some V screen time, will ya? :smallbiggrin:

[mockingbyrd7]

Hinjo's gonna join OOTS, I just know it.

Agreed, if only temporarily, he will.

[Capfalcon]

Ah Yes. Belkar has a profound insight upon good. It isn't that hard, I guess, since he is looking in from the outside.

This comic reminds me of an interesting question about paladins.

Has a paladin who has lost their paladinhood in the service of a truly greater good fallen from their paladinhood or has he risen above it?

[mockingbyrd7]

Okay, Rich. I liked it. Seriously. Plot moving, Belkar humor, very fan-friggin-tasticly cool.

But, please, next one, bring us some V screen time, will ya? :smallbiggrin:

Indeed, bring on the Vaarsuviusage!

[Thanatos 51-50]

"You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, and know when to run."

Where's that quote from? And was whoever who said it REALLY a fine maker of roast chicken?

Please tell me you're joking. In case you're not:

Its from a song called "The Gambler." I don't know about the roast chicken bit, and I can't remeber the artist's name right now. Rest assured someone else will correct it for me. I'm not even gunna bother googling it.


<<EDIT: INGSOC'd, becuase Ninja'd is so overdone. Also, There is the name for ya!>>

[jamroar]

"You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, and know when to run."

Where's that quote from? And was whoever who said it REALLY a fine maker of roast chicken?

It's from a Kenny Rogers song "The Gambler".
He also owns a chicken and rib roast restaurant chain "Kenny Rogers Roasters".

[The Wanderer]

That's the chorus from "The Gambler", an old Kenny Rogers song. I have no idea what the chicken line is about, however.

Maybe Belkar thought it was Roy Rogers doing song? *shrug*

[The Glitter Ninja]

I have no idea what the chicken line is about, however.

Yeah, I'm not getting the chicken comment, either. Roast chicken?

Great strip. I'm missing Roy and V though. Come back, :vaarsuvius: , all is forgiven!

Edit to add:


He also owns a chicken and rib roast chain of restaurants.

Ah ha! You're right. "Kenny Rogers Roasters" is the name. And here I thought Belkar failed an INT roll and got Kenny Rogers confused with Colonel Sanders.

[Merlin the Tuna]

Belkar was hysterical in the last four panels, and was actually sporting trace elements of wisdom.What was perhaps most interesting was his vague endorsement of Miko. It sounds as if he's almost got a twisted kind of respect for her.

[mockingbyrd7]

Ah Yes. Belkar has a profound insight upon good. It isn't that hard, I guess, since he is looking in from the outside.

This comic reminds me of an interesting question about paladins.

Has a paladin who has lost their paladinhood in the service of a truly greater good fallen from their paladinhood or has he risen above it?

In my opinion, his retreat was 100% the right thing to do. Although, yes, he might save some dude from a hobgoblin, he could save three dudes from a hobgoblin if he came back after a tactical retreat.

[Leo_Forestclaw]

It's been a while since I've wanted to add something to the forums, but that was just want the arc needed. A great blend of rules based humor, logic and story progression.

It's great to see this going so brilliantly; I'm loving the ride and looking forward to seeing more!

[mockingbyrd7]

It's from a Kenny Rogers song "The Gambler".
He also owns a chicken and rib roast chain of restaurants "Kenny Rogers Roasters".

Ahhhh! That explains it! Thank you, sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar.

[Porthos]

Maybe Belkar thought it was Roy Rogers doing song? *shrug*

As jamroar alluded to:

http://www.nathansfamous.com/rogers/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_Rogers_Roasters
:smallsmile:

ETA:::: Ninjaed, but I provided the links. :smalltongue:

[thehothead]

That was funnier then usual, which is saying something.

:elan: Doodoo heads

[WutAmI]

Agreed, if only temporarily, he will.
at least until Miko is ressurected to Roy's body as an undead cyber-samurai.

[exxor]

Hinjo is by far the best paladin i've ever seen.

[David Argall]

Hinjo is in no immediate danger of losing paladinhood. Not that he is really in great standing by retreating and surviving. All the backgrounds we draw the paladin from valued courage highly and looked down on the man who survived a defeat. [They also lost a lot of battles by prefering honor to good tactics.] But even the paladin types knew there was a time to flee. They would just wait until there was simply no other choice.

Right now, Hinjo has a handful vs 20,000. Anybody but a paladin is long ready to run, which means the paladin can reluctantly join them. There will be a few snide remarks at the paladin club from the less generous types, but with a good career, he can live that down.

Now associating with Belkar will be more of a problem. Short term, it too is no big deal, but it will be harder every day to ignore the evil nature and eventually the excuses will just be too much and he or Belkar must leave the group.

[5tephen]

Hinjo gets to become Robert the Bruce!

And those hankering for some V action?
S/he's been with them in the bottom of that tower for quite some time. Invisible....

[H. Zee]

Awesome strip. I'm glad Hinjo saw sense, and I'm also hoping that the two warriors with no names get some soon, because I don't want to see them killed, and everyone knows what happens to people without names in any kind of story ever...

I don't get that quote Haley said, or the reference to roast chicken, though. Perhaps some nice person could explain it to me? :smallsmile:

EDIT: Triple-ninja'd! Never mind about my question, it's already been answered while I was posting.

[Bunny]

It's the Aeneid! I sing of arms and a man! I fear the Greeks even when they bear gifts! Beware of doo-doo heads.

Bunny

[holywhippet]

No, the tens of thousands of bad guys are in the city, after having charged through one of the breaches in the walls. Roy's body, on the other hand, is out on the plain outside the walls.

There may be a few hobs between the Order and their fallen leader, but not nearly enough to give them a problem.

Don't forget. The monster in the dark is still camped outside the city unless he's changed location off camera.

[Senex]

Am I the only one who did not find Belkar's insult to be funny or witty?

[SPoD]

Am I the only one who did not find Belkar's insult to be funny or witty?

I don't think the insult was supposed to be funny. What's funny is that he continued trying to talk Hinjo into something he'd already agreed to strictly because it gave him a chance to insult him and "get away" with it.

And I predict someone will ask about the chicken comment on every page of this thread, no matter how many pages it gets to be.

[Shadic]

Hinjo is coming with them!

And hopefully, they don't forget Roy on their way out.

[Screech]

Great comic but PLEASE BRING BACK ROY NOW!!

[Ithekro]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the Order and Hinjo think Miko and the Linear Guild are dead in what is left of their cells after the explosion of the castle. It would make sense with the level of destruction the gate produced.

[DrivinAllNight]

Old No-name stepping in and ruining Belkar's moments of genius again. I have a feeling those two no-name guards are going to be around for awhile.


Why is it that Belkar manages to always steal the strips? No matter, it just makes him more and more my favorite member of the team. "Insult of Opportunity" has now been added to my lexicon.

Ok, two people, post exactly opposite views on Belkar and his exceptional wit.
And being a Belkar supporter for sometime, and the Chauffeur of the Fan Club, I have to agree with both people.
Belkar had a great insult there, but it was unfortunately tamed down and less effective since the no name guy decided to butt in just before belkar would have been effective. But I know that Belkar will find more ways to insult Hinjo and in even more hilarious ways :)

[Pester]

Am I the only one who did not find Belkar's insult to be funny or witty?

The insults were kind of kicking Hinjo while he was down. But the important, unwise part of Belkar's insult was about Shojo, who ruled the city without being a paladin to have been right all along. Although it may be more effective to rule in a machiavellian kind of way, to say that Hinjo has to put aside his ideals to be an effective ruler is basically saying that all of our governments should put aside our old codes of honor and decency because it's easier that way. (Insert obvious reference to patriot act/racial profiling/pie here.) It's a tough thing to face, and could cause Hinjo some kind of crisis of faith. We want it to be possible for someone to keep a paladinlike code and be a leader, right?

And are they just gonna leave Roy's body there?

[Querzis]

Am I the only one who did not find Belkar's insult to be funny or witty?

I didnt found the insult funny but I though what he said about Shojo was true. Unless there is never any problem, you cant have such a strict code of honor and be a good ruler of a big city. You are going to have to lie, back down, compromise and use deceit often if you want whats best for your people. After all, diplomacy is all about using lie and compromise to avoid a war.

Edit: so no Pester, I'm afraid its really impossible.

[nusigf]

Where to start? I mean, one Kenny Rogers reference is funny; two in the same breadth? OUTSTANDING!

I actually laughed out loud at Belkar's reference.

[thubby]

paladin unstupified ftw!

now, if youll excuse me, there is icecream being eaten off panel, and im not eating it, i intend to rectify that.

[fruityjanitor]

I thought Belkar's line


Do what you need to do for your lame blue city, even if you turn a lovely shade of tan for it.

was actually really noble (even if he phrased it in a somehwat insulting way). Especially for Belkar.

[Seffbasilisk]

hahahahaha! Great comic giant. Love Belkar, I've felt like that a time or two myself.

And how can they leave roy's body there, remember the Ghouls and the Hobgoblin discipline problems? He'll be munched.

[jmucchiello]

"The Gambler" reference for the winAnd the roasters reference for the match (or series if you prefer).

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I knew it! Hinjo is now an honorary member of the OotS (note, I said honorary, not official).

This has caused me to notice some interesting points too, namely "Where's Vaarsuvius?!"

[The Wanderer]

Don't forget. The monster in the dark is still camped outside the city unless he's changed location off camera.

Well, Monster in the Dark was all the way back at the area where Redcloak was doing the commanding before the charge, which is still a way off from Roy's body. (See here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0450.html)).

It's possible they could run into each other, but given both MITD's lack of actual malice and low intelligence, he may not attack the Order without being ordered to, or even actually remember/recognize them.

[Scalious]

V went invisable at the breach and presumably wonderd somewhere away from danger...to where is the question that hopefully will be answered sometime this week

edit: okay how did roys body NOT get trampled when the hobos marched?

[lacesmcawesome]

ahahhahaha, "Insult of Opportunity"

I wonder if you could use that with the Dashing Swordsman PrC... Elan could put it to good use, methinks.

[Bitzeralisis]

Most of it is chit and chat but...
"Insult of Opportunity." Heh.
And am I missing a reference? "The man makes some fine roast chicken."


And here I thought Belkar failed an INT roll and got Kenny Rogers confused with Colonel Sanders.
Shouldn't it be a Knowledge(nobility) check?

[Scalious]

Where is the eye of fear and flame?:smalleek:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0463.html

Maybe when hinjo bumped belkar he let go of it. Then failed his spot check

...and i can see that poster is right...we are gonna get someone asking about the chicken on every page


It's from a Kenny Rogers song "The Gambler".
He also owns a chicken and rib roast restaurant chain "Kenny Rogers Roasters".

[Senko]

Wow page 3 (or 4 depending on what happens while typing) that's half - less than half of what it normally is by the time I make it to the forums.

As for the chicken references I can't speak for others but I'd never heard of the gambler, kenny rogers or a rogers roast chicken chain.

[Borris]

Looks like O-Chul didn't know about either the gate or Soon. Durkon says O-chul wouldn't have destroyed the gate unless Soon had already been defeated, but he was clearly going to break the gem before even the first ghost-martyr had appeared. Had he known the gate would destroy the castle (and a good portion of the city with it) and that there was still a pretty good chance to destroy Xykon, do you think he woud have been so eager to break one third of what's holding the Snarl captive?

[Oberon]

is there a chance they can find out what happened through O-Chul if he survived? Or would they need to talk to someone like Soon to obtain the information of the battle?)

Although his body is intact, I'm pretty sure O'chul is dead, based on the amount of steam coming off of him and the distance he felw only to land directly on his head.

[sealemon]

Where's V?


Either handing out with the rest of the OOTS, as previously mentioned, or dragging Roy's body to a place of safety. Or maybe camping out somewhere and memorizing spells. He/she is practical above all else, and may have assumed the rest of the party perished in the explosion.

[Ermete]

...but the question is still the same: where is our beloved :vaarsuvius: ? :belkar: bad to bone as usual...:smallbiggrin:

EDIT: ninja'd

[Scalious]

okay...so it would seem that O-Chul was not informed, yet Hinjo thinks he should have? If O-chul knew, then why did he act so hasty?

[flamingoptimus]

best bet for :vaarsuvius: ...

Going towards :roy:'s dead body ...

I think :belkar: is gonna re-use :haley:'s favourite 3 words:

Sneak Bitchy Attack!

[demona]

everyone is asking where V is ...

but I want to know where Mr. Scruffy is?
what happened to wacky old dude's cat?
did he survive the explosion?

btw,
long time reader first time poster
hello everyone :smallsmile:

[eilandesq]

If he remembers to mention it, Durkon can ease Hinjo's conscience and perhaps convince him to come with them--the OotS knows that Xykon will go after Girard's Gate first, so acting while Xykon is still somewhat preoccupied with Azure City might allow them to head there and possibly help defend it, which would seem to be within the Sapphire Guard's oath now that a known, specific threat to that Gate exists. Given the importance of protecting the Gates, the Twelve Gods are bound to cut him some slack--even if it involves accepting a certain chaotic evil halfling as a companion.

[factotum]

There's been at least two people saying that they shouldn't leave Roy's body behind. They seem to be forgetting that Roy is OUTSIDE the city--if the OotS leave the city they can pick him up on the way past.

Anyway, cool strip, but I still want to see what Roy, Eugene and Miko have been getting up to in the afterlife all this time. (No, not THAT--keep your minds out of the gutter! :smallyuk: )

[Scalious]

dose V even know roy is dead? (S)he was most likely too busy fighting at the time he fell. I'm betting more that (s)he didn't know roy died and went to find the rest of her party or a safe place. Would (s)he be eager to explore with no spells left for the day. (s)he would likely rest.

However for the sake of plot it would be more intresting for V to find Roy's body

[Glorfindel]

Hilarious!

It seems Belkar has the following feat:

Opportunistic insulter
If someone leaves his/her threatened city, while he/she is within 30 ft. and able to hear you, you are entitled to an insult of opportunity. This insult is made with a +5 circumstantial bonus on your Intimidate check.

[warmachine]

Insult of Opportunity. Love it!

[Dr. Simon]

Oddly the only Kenny Rogers Roasters I've ever seen was in Athens (that's Greece, y' know) :smalltongue: . It's actually not bad - better than the Colonel's dubiously greasy mystery meat. I actually laughed out loud at Belkar's comment.

I'm also with Belkar on another point - I'm getting fed up with the colour blue!

[Finn Solomon]

"Perfectly-muscled ass" is going directly into my sig.

A Kenny Rogers reference! Am I the only one who remembers The Rock singing it in the ring with Stone Cold Steve Austin? Brought back memories, let me tell you.

Come on Hinjo, join the Order, collect Roy and get the heck out.

[Drascin]

Yay, some intelligence! A rare sight indeed. Totally agree with the order: survival is a lot more efficient and will help a lot more people than going out in a blaze of glory.

...Me agreeing with Belkar? The apocalypse must be drawing near :smalltongue:

[Jamie Fameflame]

Definetly one of more the outstanding comics in a long time.

Real world references, gaming references, sarcasm, story telling, Belkar having a go at someone...

Oh yes, and a double comic to boot. Great effort, Giant.

[The Wanderer]

Anyway, cool strip, but I still want to see what Roy, Eugene and Miko have been getting up to in the afterlife all this time. (No, not THAT--keep your minds out of the gutter! :smallyuk: )

To quote my ex-fiancee: "Forget the gutter, it's in the sewer, on its way out of town!" :smallwink:


Scalious

dose V even know roy is dead? (S)he was most likely too busy fighting at the time he fell. I'm betting more that (s)he didn't know roy died and went to find the rest of her party or a safe place. Would (s)he be eager to explore with no spells left for the day. (s)he would likely rest.


Y'know, that's a good point. I floated a theory the other day that maybe V had gone out to Roy after the hobgoblin horde passed by, but considering that V was in the midst of pitched battle when Roy died, had a limited field of vision, etc, there is actually a pretty decent chance that V is completely unaware that Roy is dead.

Furthermore, if V ducked out of sight to hide someplace where he wouldn't be accidentally trampled by the hob army, he might not have any clue where the Order is, and might also have to do some interesting moving in order to avoid running into some bit of the hobgoblin horde.

[The_Hunting_Enemy]

"Finally! I'm sick to death of blue!"-Belkar voices my opinion, as usual. Just wait, the next major place they go to will be themed red or green. (Or worse, yellow!)

[Smoke_Rulz]

Man.

This comic has made me remember that I need to add something to my signature.

[Green Bean]

Heh. I love Kenny Rogers, and the reference made that valuable exposition that much better. Whoot!

[Lizard Lord]

dose V even know roy is dead? (S)he was most likely too busy fighting at the time he fell. I'm betting more that (s)he didn't know roy died and went to find the rest of her party or a safe place. Would (s)he be eager to explore with no spells left for the day. (s)he would likely rest.

However for the sake of plot it would be more intresting for V to find Roy's body

I think V heard Elan's song about Roy's death, along with what seemed like almost everyone in that battle.

I know it seems kinda odd that everyone could hear it over the sounds of battle, but it looked like they did.

[SpartacusThe2nd]

who's MIA?

[Idless]

I think, what Belkar meant with "lovely tan" was that it might at some point be nessecary for Hinjo to commit an evil act, for good!

or some sorts...

but Belkar couldn't be lawful evil, could he... he would not have murdered the prison guard, and written a message in blood then, I guess...

...Idless

[PaladinFreak]

"It's what I call an 'Insult of Opportunity.'" I actually laughed out loud at that one.

[Scalious]

I forgot about Elan's song...

edit: I wonder what MIA is suppose to mean...I feel its fairly obvious and im being oblivious

[Borris]

okay...so it would seem that O-Chul was not informed, yet Hinjo thinks he should have? If O-chul knew, then why did he act so hasty?That's exactly what I'm wondering. I'm as puzzled as you are.


And I think"Not the nobles, who are, as the bard said, doodoo heads" may be the most innocuously funny quote so far. You expect this kind of line from Elan, but it's so much funnier when you put it in the mouth of another, more serious character.

[laserlasse]

Woo! My first post after years (?) of lurking. Awesome comic. Now, concerning Roy's fate..


Remember a certain Theurge wandering on the battlefield, looking for a potential death knight? :smalleek:


Would make for some interesting action and plot twists, no? And might even make sure Roy is with us 'till the end. And some.

MIA: Missing In Action

[Recursive]

Where to start? I mean, one Kenny Rogers reference is funny; two in the same breadth? OUTSTANDING!
Three. Did you catch the title?

[Tordek]

I dunno. It was an alright comic, but after the climactic action of the past 8 or 10 panels, it was something of a letdown. I suppose you can't run on adrenaline forever.

Plus, it was good to hear the song in my head. Wonder if they'll pass by Roy on the way out, or if the Hobgobs will retreat before the Order can decide to leave.

Also, WHERE IS V?!

[factotum]

Remember a certain Theurge wandering on the battlefield, looking for a potential death knight? :smalleek:



It's been said before, but it bears repeating:


Why would Tsukiko wander half a mile outside the city walls to find a corpse to resurrect when there are thousands of them right next to her? In the wide view we got a few comics ago, Roy's body was in the middle of nowhere, with nobody and nothing else near it.

[dogmac]

I thought the lovely shade of tan was an indication of the whole "You're yellow" meaning cowardice. Where does that come from anyway?

Haley rocked. She looked and made the only sensible decision.

And I'm glad Hinko is going to be around for longer (because he is sooooo cute)

I miss V too.

And Belkar, speaking words of immense sense???? What the???

[Charles Phipps]

To be fair, Hinjo is probably being a bit emotional. That happens to the best commanders. It was a complete wash this battle. However; they were faced against a Near-Epic level Lich, 3 times their normal forces, Red Cloak's High Level Clericism, Low Morale, Largely Untrained Forces, and treachery within. Let's be glad Haley was able to talk some sense into him.

[Ithekro]

Well the shade of tan would relate to Miko's fall, as her clothes turned tan from blue when she fell, and both Hinjo and Belkar were present for that.

As for "you're yellow" I'm not actually sure what that is from really. It could be in reference to a color of someone's flag or uniform that had a reputation from running away from battle, it could be racial in some way, it could be biological in one respect even. I know the slang, but not the origin of the slang.

[Matherdon]

edit: okay how did roys body NOT get trampled when the hobos marched?


Hehe, so?

Ohnoes, he went from -19 HP to -34! He's even deader now!111 ;)

[InfernusTribble]

MIA = missing in action

Belkar (chaotic evil) lecturing a paladin (lawful good) on how much better a ruler his uncle (chaotic good) was at ruling?

And being right....

[Invisible Queen]

<<EDIT: While I'm on the subject, one of my other favorite Paladin quotes is:
and this is OOC:

"I don't need a Holy Symbol to Turn Undead. I'm a Paladin. I AM a Holy Symbol!"

The DM accepted it, too. 'Course, he was a decently high-level.>>Haha, that made me want to play a Paladin.

Oddly enough, the only game I have that's remotely based on D&D is Baldur's Gate II. Might I take this opportunity to ask if anyone has any suggestions for roleplaying videogames?

Edit: Oh by the way the comic was great.

[demona]

Oddly enough, the only game I have that's remotely based on D&D is Baldur's Gate II. Might I take this opportunity to ask if anyone has any suggestions for roleplaying videogames?

try Neverwinter nights or Neverwinter nights 2

[Matherdon]

try Neverwinter nights or Neverwinter nights 2

D&D Online? ;p

But seriously.. D&D Tactics is out soon (in europe anyways) on the PSP. The previews are all saying its a great game if youre a D&D fan :)

[Charles Phipps]

The real question is whether Hinjo is joining the Order of the Stick or going to look after the people on the boats. Honestly, I wish he could have done something to the Hobgoblins to REALLY smash them good in the end.

His reputation has to be crap with his people right now.

[denelian]

okay...
this is wrong...

*I* agree weith Belkar?!?!?!?!

save me now..............

[denelian]

I thought the lovely shade of tan was an indication of the whole "You're yellow" meaning cowardice. Where does that come from anyway?

Haley rocked. She looked and made the only sensible decision.

And I'm glad Hinko is going to be around for longer (because he is sooooo cute)

I miss V too.

And Belkar, speaking words of immense sense???? What the???

yellow... yellow bellied... as in someone has suffered incotinence while lying on thier stomach..
or, rather, peed themselves all over their stomach...

you see? yeah, me neither, but thats where it came from. sigh.

[Adeptus]

Nice!

A good strip all around, and Belkar's perfectly muscled ass takes the cake. :smallsmile:

[johnnyriot999]

I really hope Hinjo becomes the new Roy.

[mohair_ninja]

Belkar shows again his emotions... however, whole effect of his speech spoiled by Noname-zaki :smallsmile: nevertheless, Hinjo's got a big dilemma.
:belkar: I'm sick to death of the colour blue!
Me too! Hope that Girard's illusions are many-coloured.
Speaking of V, he's been taking Roy to the safe place, but met MitD on the way. It's what the next strip will be about. (and maybe some Dispel Magic on old O-Chul?)

[carais]

Hehe, so?

Ohnoes, he went from -19 HP to -34! He's even deader now!111 ;)

Additionally, while one could surely walk over an obstacle like Roy's corpse, methinks it's not exactly sure footing you find there. Too soft and unstable. So, I'd step over/around it.

[Kesnit]

D&D Online? ;p

What? You want the person to give up on D&D forever? DDO was AWFUL! (Yes, I've heard it has gotten better. I was playing when it first came out. Repeating missions was bad enough. That crap with Action Points and Leveling is what finally made me quit playing.)


But seriously.. D&D Tactics is out soon (in europe anyways) on the PSP. The previews are all saying its a great game if youre a D&D fan :)

I have it pre-ordered and can't wait to get it! :)

[Maulem]

:belkar: : "The man makes a fine roast chicken.

Preach on, Brother Burlew!

Finally, a return to the comedic geniosity after a long hiatus into doom and destruction!

[Tola]

True. They seem to have good heads on their shoulders and could spur a lot of good NPC jokes (like tonight's comic, or like the one where Belkar suggested they launch them out of catapults.)

Possible that their worthy of statting, if they haven't been already. 'Hinjo's Royal Guard' or some such.

[Baalzebub]

:smallbiggrin:

Best line?
Hinjo: You can't leave!
:belkar: Tell that to my perfectly-muscled ass as it walks out the door

[EntilZha]

Aww, Belkar just couldn't wait to toss out the insults.

Heh.

Yeah, he's been waiting to do that for a very long time. :smallbiggrin:

[cavemaker]

I think Belkar just wanted to smack down Hinjo for being Lawful - that or he wanted to see to his own survival.


Haha, that made me want to play a Paladin.

Oddly enough, the only game I have that's remotely based on D&D is Baldur's Gate II. Might I take this opportunity to ask if anyone has any suggestions for roleplaying videogames?

Roleplaying videogames? You mean videogames that call themselves roleplaying videogames and are modeled on the mechanical aspects of roleplaying games like D&D? Very few videogames would allow a player to interpret his paladin as a holy symbol; it's notoriously difficult to argue cases like that to a DM that is a microprocessor.

That said, Neverwinter Nights 2.

[ralphmerridew]

who's MIA?

Vaarsuvius is MIA, not seen since casting invisibility.

[nagora]

Has a paladin who has lost their paladinhood in the service of a truly greater good fallen from their paladinhood or has he risen above it?

Depends. I suppose the greater good in question might be chaotic and that might cause a fall, but really I think the answer would be "No, the Dm's just made a mistake".

[Charles Phipps]

I do find it tragic that even on the boards, people are more interested in the "will X action make me fall" that I think is the biggest problem with Paladins as opposed to "Do I play my character as honorable, decent, and fighting for the greater good" that I ask my players to do.

[Master_Forcide]

okay...so it would seem that O-Chul was not informed, yet Hinjo thinks he should have? If O-chul knew, then why did he act so hasty?

What I think Rich was trying to get across was that Hinjo expected the living Sapphire Guard to hold out longer than they did, while they were still, err, living, and they would fight alongside the Ghost-Maryrs once they appeared. He wouldn't have anticipated Xykon taking out most of the Sapphire Guard with one spell.

Thats my opinion, at any rate.

[Kaliban]

I thought the lovely shade of tan was an indication of the whole "You're yellow" meaning cowardice. Where does that come from anyway?
...

It comes from Old far West times.
When the railroads where underconstruction, many workers were chinese immigrants.
They had the annoying peculiarity of never going on strike. So , when other laborers were refusing to work, the chinese workers were still laboring.
The on-strike workers saw this as a treason, so "a yellow" began to mean first "traitor", and then "a coward" - by supposing they refused to oppose the boss because of their cowardice.
At least, it's what I've read while documenting on the chinese presence in the "far west".

Back on topic: cheers for Belkar. He may be chaotic evil, but he is a PC, no doubt.

[MrEdwardNigma]

I'm guessing Hinjo will be Roy's replacement, more or less, perhaps until they get Roy back from the dead (after an epic quest after some artifact that could return him from the dead).
Oh, and I'm also guessing at least one of the No-Name guards will die very soon, the other might become another addition to the group, still as a way of compensating lack of Roy.

[The Evil Thing]

Wouldn't the party have to take Roy's body with them?

As explained here, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html) Belkar can't be further than one mile from Roy's position without the Mark of Justice activating.

So they'd either have to take both or leave both. (That is, of course, unless Hinjo is willing to remove the Mark, though that would probably make him uneasy.)

[WebMonk]

I'll go on record along with everyone else saying Belkar had the best lines. Not quite, but almost as good as "I am a sexy, shoeless god of war!"

Hinjo: You can't leave!
:belkar::Tell that to my perfectly-muscled ass as it walks out the door.

[Silverblaze]

I just LURVE Haley's Kenny Rogers input... You got to know when to hold 'em... AWESOME miniseries - back then at least :smallcool:

[katana2665]

..So Kenny Rogers is her dad? Ouch.

[SteveMB]

Wouldn't the party have to take Roy's body with them?

As explained here, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html) Belkar can't be further than one mile from Roy's position without the Mark of Justice activating.

So they'd either have to take both or leave both. (That is, of course, unless Hinjo is willing to remove the Mark, though that would probably make him uneasy.)

That assumes that Hinjo personally has the ability to remove the Mark (as opposed to ordering one of his sufficiently high-level casters to remove it, assuming he can find any such at the moment).

The magic-using members of the OotS might be able to remove it, but they might have their own qualms about whether it's a good idea to do so.

[Wolf53226]

..So Kenny Rogers is her dad? Ouch.

Hmmm????


If her dad told her the words of a very wise man, that doesn't mean the words were originally said by he dad.

[comicadv]

Belkar speaks the truth!!!

I'm talking about what he said to Hinjo not about the Insult of oppratunity.
Still its a good idea...I hope they include it in V.4.

Newest and Hottest Paladin Fashion: tan.
Sometimes the code of honor needs a color change.

[Sebastian]

Haha, that made me want to play a Paladin.

Oddly enough, the only game I have that's remotely based on D&D is Baldur's Gate II. Might I take this opportunity to ask if anyone has any suggestions for roleplaying videogames?

Edit: Oh by the way the comic was great.

Planescape torment is a little old but a must-have, if you can find it.

[Willahad]

It's going to be very hard for Hinjo to lock up Belkar now

[Willahad]

It's going to be very hard for Hinjo to lock up Belkar now

[Daemon]

<<EDIT: INGSOC'd, becuase Ninja'd is so overdone. Also, There is the name for ya!>>[/QUOTE]

IngSoc... Nice reference to Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell. Personally I'd go with miniluved but... hey.

Awesome comic Giant. You're finally advancing the plot beyond a snail's pace

[crathoc]

I don't know about the rest of you people but i was getting frikin sick of the blue every where, i hope wherever the next gate is its not just one color, or i'm going to barf.





I took that what dice are you quiz and i was a d4 shwerd,Petty,and evil

[Twilight Jack]

I find Belkar's Insult of Opportunity in this strip to be quite possibly the wisest thing that has ever come out of his mouth. Everyone else made some awesome practical points about retreating in this singular situation, but Belkar, in his eagerness to insult Hinjo, nailed the larger and far more prescient point.

Shorter Belkar: "Maybe you should base your choices on the big picture and the ultimate good of the world rather than the preservation of your precious class abilities."

[chibibar]

gotta love "insult of opportunity" :) man.. Haley is totally on the ball on this one. There is more to Haley than just Greed :)

[maitreyi]

The song is The Gambler by Kenny Rogers it goes:

On a warm summers evenin on a train bound for nowhere,
I met up with the gambler; we were both too tired to sleep.
So we took turns a starin out the window at the darkness
til boredom overtook us, and he began to speak.

He said, son, I've made a life out of readin peoples faces,
And knowin what their cards were by the way they held their eyes.
So if you dont mind my sayin, I can see youre out of aces.
For a taste of your whiskey Ill give you some advice.

So I handed him my bottle and he drank down my last swallow.
Then he bummed a cigarette and asked me for a light.
And the night got deathly quiet, and his face lost all expression.
Said, if youre gonna play the game, boy, ya gotta learn to play it right.

You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when youre sittin at the table.
Therell be time enough for countin when the dealins done.

Now every gambler knows that the secret to survivin
Is knowin what to throw away and knowing what to keep.
cause evry hands a winner and evry hands a loser,
And the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep.

So when hed finished speakin, he turned back towards the window,
Crushed out his cigarette and faded off to sleep.
And somewhere in the darkness the gambler, he broke even.
But in his final words I found an ace that I could keep.

You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when youre sittin at the table.
Therell be time enough for countin when the dealins done.

Where is Vaarsuvius? He/She is my favorite character! I hope they all end up on the boats, going towards the gate that's across the ocean.:smallbiggrin:

[Heliomance]

Hay Guys, Whut's Up Wiv Teh Haley Quoet??

[Bendal]

Belkar nailed it; Hinjo needs to think like a lord trying to save what's left of his people and less like a paladin trying to go out in a sacrificial blaze of glory. Killing a hundred or even a thousand hobgoblins won't change the outcome, but retreating and coming back with a more powerful force certainly can. Hinjo, as the Lord of Azure City (and a paladin), can rally the scattered forces that the OOTS never could. If that causes a loss of paladinhood, then so be it, but I doubt any deity Hinjo was devoted to would punish him for doing so in this situation.

All that's left for the OOTS to do here is get out of the tower, avoid a couple hundred wandering hobgoblins, find V, get Roy's body, and get the heck out of the city as fast as possible.

[Silverblaze]

Hay Guys, Whut's Up Wiv Teh Haley Quoet??


Like maitreyi and I were on about, it's a song by kenny rogers - from an 80s tv mini series called the gambler - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080993/

[Heliomance]

It always amazes me how many times people are willing to answer the same question, with no "Go read the thread" in sight. The above was just me being facetious, making a comment on the stereotype of those who ask questions without looking first.

[Silverblaze]

It always amazes me how many times people are willing to answer the same question, with no "Go read the thread" in sight. The above was just me being facetious, making a comment on the stereotype of those who ask questions without looking first.

Look at it this way - Due to the popularity of the giants pen these forums have a tendency to grow rather fast. It simply seems that some people are more helpful than others :smalltongue:

[Pyrian]

Vaarsuvius is MIA, not seen since casting invisibility.

Funny how that works.

[Silverblaze]

Funny how that works.

Now 'that' was funny :smallbiggrin:

[Charles Phipps]

Shorter Belkar: "Maybe you should base your choices on the big picture and the ultimate good of the world rather than the preservation of your precious class abilities."

The proper response being "In other words, act more like a Paladin and less like an aristocrat? Good call!"

[shaddy_24]

Funny how that works.

That was funny.

That was a good comic. All the order there had a chance to input their own words of wisdom, including, surprisingly, Belkar. No-Name interupting him looked like the DM trying to cut off the player before he said something to screw up the situation. Then the player said it anyway and it wasn't that bad.

[Fabio_MP]

"insult of opportunity"..... loved it :)

another great strip...

[Rufio]

I sure hope that Hinjo doesn't join OOTS. I like :roy: a lot better as the teams main fighter, even though a paladin will come in handy for any adventuring group, especailly when your ac nemesis is an Undead :amused:.

[Genghis Cohen]

"Insult of Opportunity"

Genius, pure genius.Brilliant!!!

[rosebud]

I'm reminded a bit of Final Fantasy VII when Cloud is separated from the main party and (was it?) Tifa becomes the leader of the party. Of course, here the analog is Roy and Haley. (Of course, the previous FF reference (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0388.html) probably helps trigger my memories.)

That would be kinda fun, actually. An OOTS RPG! (With stunningly rendered, fully 2-dimensional sticks.)

[Alex Warlorn]

Our dear lord isn't going to lose his paladin hood, he's not retreating because of cowardice or coldness. And being with Bitterleaf doesn't count either, since he believes (even if he's not right) he's slowly convincing Bitterleaf that Bitterleaf isn't the only being in the universe whose existence ultimately matters.

[SKarious]

Hehe, nice strip.
I found the song, and now I can't get it out of my head. Help!
Is there a special significance to the "roast chicken", though?

Also, I just remembered this strip (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=84)(VGCats).

[Pyro]

Hah, great strip.

Belkar always has great lines and ranks among one of my favorite charactors.

[Nightfall]

"You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, and know when to run."

Where's that quote from? And was whoever who said it REALLY a fine maker of roast chicken?

Probably answered already, but Kenny Rogers was the singer of "The Gambler". I don't know about his epicurean talents.

BTW...another great strip, Giant! Haley can "run rings around (Vaarsuvius), logically!"*

*Monty Python reference, for those who don't know.

[Naltyrr]

Probably answered already, but Kenny Rogers was the singer of "The Gambler". I don't know about his epicurean talents.

BTW...another great strip, Giant! Haley can "run rings around (Vaarsuvius), logically!"*

*Monty Python reference, for those who don't know.

Its been answered earlier in the thread, but there is a chicken place by the name of Kenny Roger's Roasters, named such for obvious reasons.

[StupidFatHobbit]

I knew the "Gambler" song, but I did not know that Kenny Rogers owned a restaurant chain. OOTS Forums: They're fun and educational!

I imagine a restaurant owned by Kenny Rogers would be very good, because when they cook the chicken they know what to throw away and know what to keep.

[Omega]

I wish have called Hinjo, what Belkar called him.. :smallbiggrin:

[Tach13]

Great comic, funny, moving the story forward, and showed in microcosm what each character is "about".
Fantastic work, as always.

[Girl Wonder]

What was perhaps most interesting was his vague endorsement of Miko. It sounds as if he's almost got a twisted kind of respect for her.

I would think, in a strange sort of way that Belkar would understand Miko the most, for all that he hates her. (But let's be honest, Belkar hates a lot of people.) For all that she was Lawful Good, and he is Chaotic Evil (boo!), they both live by what I believe to be the same credo. 'Do what makes sense to me and the consequences be damned!' It's can be a chaotic-evil-type person's greatest strength (because they never question their convictions), and a lawful-good-type person's greatest weakness, (if, like Miko, they confuse their own convictions for what is actually right)

Neither of them ever, ever show the slightest hint of self-doubt, and in a way, I can see Belkar respecting that about Miko, unconsciously, even though he would never, ever admit it, I think.

[puddingpie]

I give props to Belkar's speech, not only for being insulting yet true, but also because it shows how much he respects Shojo, even if he'll never directly compliment the man. When Shojo was killed, Belkar was one of the people more shaken by it. ("You killed the dude with the cat!")


You know, I thought Hinjo was intelligent at first. Squandering his heavy hitters on a futile battle, though? No wonder they lost if that's who's running things. He's no Redcloak, let alone a Hamster.


To be fair, Hinjo is probably being a bit emotional. That happens to the best commanders.

Seriously, how rational and analytical is someone going to be, who's been king for less than a day, when chances are that basically everyone he knows has just died (families, friends, comrades, even just loyal servants and subjects), and his city and home completely destroyed? Even if they had won the battle, the closest thing he's had to a father, Shojo, has been dead for less than 24 hours. I think Hinjo is holding together relatively well given all that. I don't think his actions stem only from some sort of paladinly need for going out in a blaze of glory - part of him must be hopeless and depressed as hell, which explains the desperate, almost suicidal reaction.

[Forealms]

Old No-name stepping in and ruining Belkar's moments of genius again. I have a feeling those two no-name guards are going to be around for awhile.

I have a really good feeling those two no-name guards will have names in the future. They aren't going to be PC popular, but they will reoccur, I'm sure.

[Donraj]

Stupid Belkar's sexy ass.

[Scalious]

Hehe, so?

Ohnoes, he went from -19 HP to -34! He's even deader now!111 ;)

I dunno but I thought the bodys condition mattered in terms of rezing or potential zombifacation

[Snipers_Promise]

Well, this won't end well. :smallwink:

[Werekitty]

That's the chorus from "The Gambler", an old Kenny Rogers song. I have no idea what the chicken line is about, however.

Once upon a time there was a restaurant called Kenny Rogers Roasters. Purveyors of delicious baby-back ribs, and rotisserie chicken.

[Ganurath]

Restaurant references aside, does this mean that Belkar has met Haley's father's wise man friend?

[Alysar]

Anyone else think this comic is the perfect point for the storyline to switch gears? Say... to Roy's adventures in the afterlife.

[see]

Oddly enough, the only game I have that's remotely based on D&D is Baldur's Gate II. Might I take this opportunity to ask if anyone has any suggestions for roleplaying videogames?

Well, yes. The best roleplaying game for simulating video games is probably TriStat dX. D20 just doesn't handle the genre very well, GURPS is too gritty, Hero is too complex, and Storyteller—well, White Wolf actually published a Storyteller "Street Fighter" RPG, and there's a reason people are shocked to hear it ever existed.

In fact—

Oh, wait. You meant RPG-genre videogames, didn't you :smallbiggrin:

[Zeekar]

Like maitreyi and I were on about, it's a song by kenny rogers - from an 80s tv mini series called the gambler - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080993/

Wrong order, there. The song came first. The miniseries (actually, a few independent TV movies) came later.

Kenny Rogers released an album in 1978 called The Gambler; the song in question was the title track, released as single, big hit. Suddenly, despite lyrics clearly indicating that the guy singing the song is not the Gambler, and in fact the Gambler is dead, KR becomes popularly referred to as the Gambler. There were then a few made-for-TV movies set in the Old West with KR as the titular character.

Meanwhile, nobody ever mentions (or, usually, has heard of) Don Schlitz, who actually wrote the song. :)

[Alfryd]

New comic is up.
Very good. Also chuckleworthy.


Rich. Rich! There's a typo! See the last 3 panels? Those- right there! Yeah. Where Belkar is talking. Those are wrong.
It should read: 'I cast thinly veiled aspersions upon your species' ancestry and question your performance in the act of love, crass retort, blunt remark.'


No-Name interupting him looked like the DM trying to cut off the player before he said something to screw up the situation. Then the player said it anyway and it wasn't that bad.
Don't be silly. Belkar doesn't make sense. He's clearly been replaced by his illusionary duplicate.


Neither of them ever, ever show the slightest hint of self-doubt.
Actually, I found it interesting that Haley echoed Miko's last words in the opening panel.

[Shatteredtower]

What I want to know is this: assuming Hinjo can gather the remaining members of the Sapphire Guard, will they still follow him? Or will everyone consider him the coward of the country?

[nybbler]

Suddenly, despite lyrics clearly indicating that the guy singing the song is not the Gambler, and in fact the Gambler is dead, KR becomes popularly referred to as the Gambler.

Well, yes and no. The Gambler of the song is passing on his "wisdom" to the viewpoint character, who apparently takes his advice ("But in his final words, I found an ace that I could keep") and presumably becomes the new Gambler. Of course, referring to KR as "The Gambler" is still confusing the character with the singer.

Kenny Rogers can kick Harland Sanders's bony white posterior in the chicken department, though.

[MaxKaladin]

What I want to know is this: assuming Hinjo can gather the remaining members of the Sapphire Guard, will they still follow him? Or will everyone consider him the coward of the country?Hehehe! :biggrin:

[CGM3]

(But let's be honest, Belkar hates a lot of people.)

Remember, according to Vaarsuvius' theory (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0335.html), Belkar either hates you or lusts after you... and if that's not a disturbing thought, I don't know what is! :smalleek:

[Fighteer]

I dunno but I thought the bodys condition mattered in terms of rezing or potential zombifacation
Only by DM fiat. There are no specific rules for what happens to a body when it takes damage, except for specifically defined weapon properties (vorpal, of sharpness) or certain spells that specifically state that they reduce a corpse to ashes or dust (disintegrate, destruction).

It's more important to consider the description of the spell that's actually doing the raising/animation. Raise dead has a very strict time limit on its use, won't regenerate missing body parts (but will reattach them if they are present), and won't work on targets slain by death spells/effects, destroyed undead, or targets reduced to dust or otherwise completely obliterated. Resurrection eliminates nearly all of the limitations of raise dead except that it requires some component of the physical body. True resurrection eliminates even that requirement.

On the Evil side, animate dead says very little about the required condition of the corpse, except that fresh corpses become zombies and older ones become skeletons, and that any missing parts remain missing when animated. Create undead and create greater undead make no reference at all to the condition of the corpse, nor do the descriptions of the types of undead that those spells create offer any limitations that would apply.

If a DM wants to add flavor text that a creature reduced to -50 hit points is blown apart or dismembered in some horrible way, that's up to him. However, I would be wary of allowing that flavor text to interfere with the functioning of resurrection spells, or it stops being flavor and starts being a house rule.

[SteveMB]

I would think, in a strange sort of way that Belkar would understand Miko the most, for all that he hates her. (But let's be honest, Belkar hates a lot of people.) For all that she was Lawful Good, and he is Chaotic Evil (boo!), they both live by what I believe to be the same credo. 'Do what makes sense to me and the consequences be damned!' It's can be a chaotic-evil-type person's greatest strength (because they never question their convictions), and a lawful-good-type person's greatest weakness, (if, like Miko, they confuse their own convictions for what is actually right)

Neither of them ever, ever show the slightest hint of self-doubt, and in a way, I can see Belkar respecting that about Miko, unconsciously, even though he would never, ever admit it, I think.

Hmmm... I think you're on to something. There could be something similar underlying Belkar's evident respect for the late Lord Shojo's machinations (well, that and the fact that he made paladins clean Mr. Scruffy's litter box).

[Aquillion]

Minor typo in today's strip: "If we start making a scene, knocking of hobbo's left and right..."

It should be "hobbos", shouldn't it? Apostrophe-s is for possessive, no apostrophe is for plural.

I thought I'd report it so it could be fixed in the printed version... although, I don't know if it'll be seen on page 7 of this. Are we supposed to report typos we see or whatever? Or does even a minor error like this get a billion annoying emails already?

[Rebarth]

I dunno if anyone noticed but this strip has some continuity problems lol.

First, belkar says to hinjo to tell his muscled ass as it walks through the door, while he is walking pass hinjo.
we don't see him again until the panel where he says next to elan something about roast chicken.
Then we see elan, halley and durkon saying stuff to hinjo and exiting.
then we see belkar insulting hinjo and going to the right. then we elan and halley next to him.


:tongue: :smalltongue: :tongue:

[shakes019]

Good comic. I guess it's my age, but I was surprised at the number of posters that didn't get the Kenny Rogers references.

I am also reminded of the Penny Arcade Kenny Rogers storyline (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/search?keyword=kenny+rogers).

[Alfryd]

Why is it that Belkar manages to always steal the strips?
No one can bring themselves to believe he is truly that heinous, so it gets us every time.

Belkar was hysterical in the last four panels, and was actually sporting trace elements of wisdom.
See? See? He's been replaced by an evil double.

He also owns a chicken and rib roast restaurant chain "Kenny Rogers Roasters".
Aaaaah... the fog of incomprehension lifteth.


Don't forget. The monster in the dark is still camped outside the city unless he's changed location off camera.
I presume they'll pick up O-chul at the same time they collect Roy.

Leave the fight so there is a chance to win or honor the code and stay to fight...
See under 'Lawful Stupid.'

There will be a few snide remarks at the paladin club from the less generous types...
Also known as 'morons.'

You know, I thought Hinjo was intelligent at first. Squandering his heavy hitters on a futile battle, though?

Looks like O-Chul didn't know about either the gate or Soon. Durkon says O-chul wouldn't have destroyed the gate unless Soon had already been defeated, but he was clearly going to break the gem before even the first ghost-martyr had appeared.

...basically saying that all of our governments should put aside our old codes of honor and decency because it's easier that way.
...We want it to be possible for someone to keep a paladinlike code and be a leader, right?
Sure, it's possible. Insofar as you can hide behind subordinates' oaths of loyalty as a pretext for using them as tools in your grand designs and make sure you are rather economical with the truth.

I should point out that Hinjo sent the senior members of the sapphire guard to die in a battle to which they made close to no useful contribution in the full knowledge that they would also wind up dead.

Retreat with the Belkster in tow for a spell should be nothing by comparison.

To be fair, Hinjo is probably being a bit emotional.
Well it's about damn time. Even Miko wasn't this repressed.

What was perhaps most interesting was [Belkar's] vague endorsement of Miko. It sounds as if he's almost got a twisted kind of respect for her.

...at least until Miko is ressurected to Roy's body as an undead cyber-samurai.
Stop it! Both of you! Stop it stopit stopit!
I'm not listening.
*lalala*


All the backgrounds we draw the paladin from valued courage highly and looked down on the man who survived a defeat.
If you're referring to medieval Knights or the Samurai, I would point out that there was no period in history when standards of honour were both hghly prized and adhered to, and the social tier in question was remotely relevant in a military capacity. The ideals of loyalty unto death and chivalry/bushido were largely a product of romanticisation by victorian novelists or the essayists of a unified and peaceful japan long after the classes in question had become obsolete relics of a bloody past.
Samurai who actually fought on a regular basis also regularly switched allegiance, saw no shame in retreat, and the brighter sparks among them were quick to employ firearms. Christian Knights were not so scrupulous.

They had the annoying peculiarity of never going on strike. So , when other laborers were refusing to work, the chinese workers were still laboring.
Of course, said labourers were also instrumental in completing the first american transcontinental railroad. When they did strike, and were starved into submission for their efforts. Nobody else would work under those construction conditions, which tends to suggest that they had more to lose from quitting a job.
Not that this has anything at all to do with the topic.

It always amazes me how many times people are willing to answer the same question, with no "Go read the thread" in sight.
I think it's technically against the rules of posting.

[Blaznak]

Ah... plot development stuff... very interesting...
Belkar, of course, is still the strip-stealer!

[Gwenfloor]

The whole "Paladins don't retreat thing" is not part of the Paladin Code, it is just a cultural stigma attached to the Code by mortals, not beings of Law and Good. It says in the Monster Manual that Archons, exemplars of Law and Good, retreat and use guerrilla warfare.

[ingtar33]

I'll stretch back to 2ed, on this hinjo withdrawal thing... (warning, serious rusty d&d knowledge coming up, I'm 90% certain it's right, and 100% certain it's nerdy)

hinjo is allowed to withdraw (as are all paladins) when outnumbered by 3 times the hit-dice, without an alignment shift.

paladin's are courageous, they don't have to be stupid.

on a similar tact... when outnumbering a non-evil foe in battle, by more then 2 times the hit-dice a paladin will often withdraw from the battle for the inherent lack of fairness, and if he doesn't he risks losing his alignment.

I don't think his desire to stay was an act of heroism, but more born from concern and compassion for the citizens and soldiers left alive in the city, as well as attachment to his home.

[Simons Mith]

Y'know, after that eloquent speech I wonder if Belkar's alignment hasn't slipped a little. Or has he actually increased his Wisdom slightly? Either way, spooky!

[berrew]

Nah; anyone can roll the occasional 20...

[AyuVince]

Common sense 1, paladin's code 0. Good thing that Hinjo isn't as deluded as Miko (yet), though he's still acting by the ol' paladin drill. And the OotS members, who were degraded to side characters after Roy's death (at least in my opinion), were all making reasonable arguments, even Elan (levels in Dashing Swordsman must come with a bonus to INT). Of course, it had to be *Belkar*, who, of all people, made a point for remembering the greater good. He even quoted Shojo. Maybe the old guy's CG-ness inspired Belkar...

*accidentally causes another five "Belkar will become good" threads to appear*

[Shatteredtower]

Y'know, after that eloquent speech I wonder if Belkar's alignment hasn't slipped a little. Or has he actually increased his Wisdom slightly?Most of Belkar's insight into the world is spent on the ability to hit where it hurts most.

As for Hinjo, I think Durkon sums it up nicely. Hinjo's death here would accomplish very little in the big picture, whereas Roy's was a gamble that had a remote chance of paying off in a big way.

In a sense, it did. If Xykon hadn't been delayed, he might never have encountered Tsukiko. Likewise, Redcloak's charge would have come too late (he was in bad shape before the goblin arrived, necessitating use of a heal spell), and Xykon would likely have been driven back to the phylactery in time to warn Redcloak not to enter the throne room.

Without Tsukiko, or no encounter between her and Redcloak, or even a slight change in the timing of their meeting, there'd have been no one escaping from the prison. No escapees means no Miko destroying the throne.

Now it might have all happened anyway, but I still find the connections interesting.

[Czarzhan]

Wouldn't the party have to take Roy's body with them?

As explained here, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html) Belkar can't be further than one mile from Roy's position without the Mark of Justice activating.

So they'd either have to take both or leave both. (That is, of course, unless Hinjo is willing to remove the Mark, though that would probably make him uneasy.)
It occurs to me that, since Roy was such an integral part of the "Mark of Justice" (had to be within a mile of him, could set it off on command), his death may have unravelled the magics that held it in place anyway. I mean, is there any way to tell if it's still there, aside from the triggers or a Detect Magic spell?

Hell, given Shajo's talent for deception, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a curse version of Nystul's Magic Aura...

[pendell]

First of all, thank you, Giant, for a timely update.

Second of all, it did my heart good to see the OOTS again. I confess my heart leaped when I saw Haley.. for some reason I have a highly positive emotional reaction to our little group. It's nice to have them back after a couple strips focused on team evil.

Some thoughts in no particular order:

*I hope the nonames get names. The male one, as far as I'm concerned, earned a name in the last strip. Even if he gets killed two panels from now.

* I think what Belkar meant by the "tan" comment ... was that Hinjo should do what was good for the city, even at the expense of his class. It might be necessary, for example, for him to lie in order to save the city. If the weights on the scale is thousands of innocent lives on one end vs. staying a paladin on the other, Hinjo should do the first and accept the tan colors as a price of "the greater good".

* BTW, Belkar really should watch his mouth ...

As far as Belkar knows, Hinjo is still the only person who can lift his mark of justice. A character with a few more points in int/wis would think twice about 1) Making an obviously evil suggestion involving sacrificing the NPC nonames to find out the catapult's range or 2) pointlessly insulting him after noname NPC had already made the same point.

Just watch the possibility of the MOJ being lifted recede further and further into the distance.

A politician, Belkar ain't.



* Just what did the OOTS accomplish, anyways? They weren't around to stop Xykon, and they didn't destroy the gate. The heavy lifting in this fight was done by an NPC -- Soon.

They *did* capture an Eye of Fear & flame as well as destroy a Death Knight, and a zombie silver dragon. And build a mountain of hobgoblin corpses.

All of which was entirely irrelevant to the central action.

I'm trying to see how this story would be different if the OOTS had simply left the city to it's fate... oh, right, Hinjo would have died if Belkar had not saved his life. But aside from that?

* So far, everyone's prophecy has been fulfilled except V's. I wonder if that will be fulfilled in this arc?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Zeniath Jel-Lat]

Just wanna say i loved the last update and i have great fun with Belkar at the end.

ALso a say from me as i just registered into the forums :)

[Jaltum]

* So far, everyone's prophecy has been fulfilled except V's. I wonder if that will be fulfilled in this arc?

...except for Elan's, and Roy's, and Durkon's, and arguably Belkar's.

[David Argall]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmac
I thought the lovely shade of tan was an indication of the whole "You're yellow" meaning cowardice. Where does that come from anyway?
...


It comes from Old far West times.
When the railroads where underconstruction, many workers were chinese immigrants.
They had the annoying peculiarity of never going on strike. So , when other laborers were refusing to work, the chinese workers were still laboring.
The on-strike workers saw this as a treason, so "a yellow" began to mean first "traitor", and then "a coward" - by supposing they refused to oppose the boss because of their cowardice.
At least, it's what I've read while documenting on the chinese presence in the "far west".


The term is much older than this. It may go back to Biblical times. Even very early pictures of Judas show him in yellow.

During medieval times, yellow was widely associated with Jews, who of course were also accused of cowardess.

[StupidFatHobbit]

The term is much older than this. It may go back to Biblical times. Even very early pictures of Judas show him in yellow.

I have heard it comes from the theory of humours, which goes back to the Greeks (Aristotle? not sure). Yellow bile is one of the four humours they believed governed personality and emotions, and it was the one responsible for treason or treachery in a person. That could be where the Judas connection came in, and Judas's treason was extended to Jews in general in medieval times.

Edit: I'm not sure how treason connects to cowardice. Basically it seems to boil down to "yellow is the colour of sneaky bad behaviour of all types" but the ultimate reason for that is beyond me. I suspect it has something to do with our precious bodily fluids. </strangelove>