The most powerful animal companion/pala mount/cohort evar

[Max Caysey]

Year so for fun, I was looking into building a level 20 paladin 20 druid, with the mount both as animal companion and cohort.

I was thinking about keeping the mount mundane, since I was unsure of spellcasting could even become possible and because I think it might be too much to have a full spellcasting mount.

I was thinking about making a monk cohort, with vow of poverty... WHat is your thought on this? The mount I wanted was the dire elk from MM2.

Please give me your thoughts... thanks

[IcarusWulfe]

Try looking up the so called "Ubermount" build. it should give you some ideas

[Kelb_Panthera]

Year so for fun, I was looking into building a level 20 paladin 20 druid, with the mount both as animal companion and cohort.

I was thinking about keeping the mount mundane, since I was unsure of spellcasting could even become possible and because I think it might be too much to have a full spellcasting mount.

I was thinking about making a monk cohort, with vow of poverty... WHat is your thought on this? The mount I wanted was the dire elk from MM2.

Please give me your thoughts... thanks

The typical maximum mount power is the supermount build. It's a rather prescriptive build though; paladin 5/ beastmaster 1/ halfling outrider 10/ X 4, where X is something that either advances animal companion or special mount, typically wild plains outrider advancing animal companion.

Take devoted tracker at 6 so that paladin levels add to animal companion boosts, take a young-ish gold dragon for the paladin's mount because freakin' dragon (per the details in DMG for alternate mounts), halfling outrider advances both animal companion and special mount, and now you have a raging dragon that -far- outstrips your own capabilities. Pick up celestial mount if you really want to bring the power up a tick and have the dragon take VoP for one of his bonus feats.

As for your own thoughts; that is rather unclear to me. Do you plan on being a lvl 40 character? Do you think that you get to choose class levels for the bonus HD from the companion or mount features? Dire-elk can be fun if all you really want is a mobile platform that can defend itself well enough but predators tend to be better for active combat and if you want to get serious then an ape should be able to use normal gear like an extra character (barring VoP usage).

[Max Caysey]

I just want to see how much juice one can actually apply to an animal companion/pala mount. Therefore I wanted both max pala mount and max druid companion power increase. War Beast too. This is not something that will actually be played, but I want to do it because I see it as a good way of learning. And since this is simply an exercise I will choose class levels for the cohort.

Indeed the devoted tracker would be applied and the mount would be a cohort.

I will look up the Übermount build...

[Kelb_Panthera]

I just want to see how much juice one can actually apply to an animal companion/pala mount. Therefore I wanted both max pala mount and max druid companion power increase. War Beast too. This is not something that will actually be played, but I want to do it because I see it as a good way of learning. And since this is simply an exercise I will choose class levels for the cohort.

Indeed the devoted tracker would be applied and the mount would be a cohort.

I will look up the Übermount build...

The paladin's mount/ animal companion doesn't get class levels. It gets bonus HD based on its creature type, typically animal HD. It's not even guaranteed that you'll get to choose the creature's additional feats since it's technically an NPC though most DM's let you do so as either a matter of courtesy or the mistaken belief that it's actually RAW to do so. It's also atypical for a game to go past level 20, though hardly unheard of.

A cohort is something altogether different from either of those class feature creatures. A cohort is something you get from either leadership or some similar feat.

[sleepyphoenixx]

One thing to keep in mind is the breakpoints of the various companion-improving features.

A level 15 paladins mount is just as strong as a level 20 paladins mount. A level 18 animal companion is as strong as a level 20 animal companion.
Paladin mounts only get +2 HD for every 5 levels. Animal companions get +2 HD every 3 levels, so levels that progress animal companion are worth more when you have to choose.

For maximum companion fun look at dragon magazine (#325). Theurgic Bond and Holy Mount can really beef up your companion while still leaving you with almost full casting progression, for example.
These feats are especially strong if you go into Arcane Hierophant - you get 10 levels of animal companion progression, 10 levels of familiar progression (that you can add to animal companion with Theurgic Bond) and 10 divine caster levels (that add to the special mount progression with Holy Mount).

[Max Caysey]

One thing to keep in mind is the breakpoints of the various companion-improving features.

A level 15 paladins mount is just as strong as a level 20 paladins mount. A level 18 animal companion is as strong as a level 20 animal companion.
Paladin mounts only get +2 HD for every 5 levels. Animal companions get +2 HD every 3 levels, so levels that progress animal companion are worth more when you have to choose.

For maximum companion fun look at dragon magazine (#325). Theurgic Bond and Holy Mount can really beef up your companion while still leaving you with almost full casting progression, for example.
These feats are especially strong if you go into Arcane Hierophant - you get 10 levels of animal companion progression, 10 levels of familiar progression (that you can add to animal companion with Theurgic Bond) and 10 divine caster levels (that add to the special mount progression with Holy Mount).

Would it be possible to have the Animal Companion of the druid be familiar aswell? So in effect the combining pala mount, animal companion and familiar?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Arcane heirophant can make an AC/familiar hybrid that's pretty cool but ultimately less powerful than the SM/AC blend. It is however, servant to a -much- more powerful master and gets a pretty stark improvement on share spells thanks to the arcane heirophant's class feature that allows the companion to be the origin point for spells he casts.

I can't think of anything that combines SM and familiar and combining all three effectively is just right out.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

For the psionic version, look up the The Big Guy Is With Me.

[Thurbane]

Aside from the obvious conundrum of a level Paladin 20/Druid 20 having irreconcilable alignment issues, and AFAIK there is no actual method to combine an animal companion and special mount into one creature (although there's a very good chance someone will prove me wrong) why not just go for broke and call it a Celestial Battletitan (MM3)? :smallbiggrin:

[MisterKaws]

Mandatory World Record Link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?142554-New-World-Record-Mount-Familiar-Companion-by-HD)


Aside from the obvious conundrum of a level Paladin 20/Druid 20 having irreconcilable alignment issues, and AFAIK there is no actual method to combine an animal companion and special mount into one creature (although there's a very good chance someone will prove me wrong) why not just go for broke and call it a Celestial Battletitan (MM3)? :smallbiggrin:

Devoted Tracker, done.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Arcane heirophant can make an AC/familiar hybrid that's pretty cool but ultimately less powerful than the SM/AC blend. It is however, servant to a -much- more powerful master and gets a pretty stark improvement on share spells thanks to the arcane heirophant's class feature that allows the companion to be the origin point for spells he casts.

I can't think of anything that combines SM and familiar and combining all three effectively is just right out.

You can combine familiar & special mount with the Theurgic Mount feat (Dr#325).
The only problem is getting a special mount while still having a neutral alignment. Most of them require you to be lawful.
One option is Ranger Knight (Dr#317), who gets a special mount as a 6th level paladin at level 1. The class has some pretty high requirements though (Smite Evil + 4 feats), but it's doable if you want it (and you need Smite Evil anyway for Devoted Tracker). You can get Smite Evil with a template, a bloodline or by getting the Elysium domain (SpC).

[Dread_Head]

Arcane heirophant can make an AC/familiar hybrid that's pretty cool but ultimately less powerful than the SM/AC blend. It is however, servant to a -much- more powerful master and gets a pretty stark improvement on share spells thanks to the arcane heirophant's class feature that allows the companion to be the origin point for spells he casts.

I can't think of anything that combines SM and familiar and combining all three effectively is just right out.

High One Warrior Wizard substitution levels add Familiar abilities to a Special Mount. Getting them into a build is a bit of a pain though. I guess if the OP is building with 40 levels though it's a possibility.

[torrasque666]

Aside from the obvious conundrum of a level Paladin 20/Druid 20 having irreconcilable alignment issues, and AFAIK there is no actual method to combine an animal companion and special mount into one creature (although there's a very good chance someone will prove me wrong) why not just go for broke and call it a Celestial Battletitan (MM3)? :smallbiggrin:

This is why:
Battletitn Dinosaurs cannot be selected as animal companions, nor can they be summoned with summon nature's ally spells.

[atemu1234]

This is why:

That's a pity.

[Deox]

Out of curiosity,

Is Paladin with Sword of the Arcane Order going into Zhentarim Skymage a thing? Being able to snag a Linnorm seems pretty amazing.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Out of curiosity,

Is Paladin with Sword of the Arcane Order going into Zhentarim Skymage a thing? Being able to snag a Linnorm seems pretty amazing.

It's not. Not only do special mount and the skymage mount not stack or combine in any way, skymage also requires you to be "a member in good standing" of the Zhentarim.
Since they're evil and follow an evil god that condition is impossible to fulfill for a paladin, who isn't even allowed to knowingly associate with them without falling.
A Paladin of Slaughter/Tyranny theoretically could, but they don't qualify for SotAO.

[Deox]

It's not. Not only do special mount and the skymage mount not stack or combine in any way, skymage also requires you to be "a member in good standing" of the Zhentarim.
Since they're evil and follow an evil god that condition is impossible to fulfill for a paladin, who isn't even allowed to knowingly associate with them without falling.
A Paladin of Slaughter/Tyranny theoretically could, but they don't qualify for SotAO.

Good call, forgot about the evil aspect. I'm AFB, but could have thought there are some loose readings which could grant some silly "mounts" that would be more powerful.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Good call, forgot about the evil aspect. I'm AFB, but could have thought there are some loose readings which could grant some silly "mounts" that would be more powerful.

You can certainly get some powerful mounts out of Zhentarim Skymage, considering that the only limit is "it flies and has X HD" iirc.
Since it's based on class level + charisma the mechanism to push it would be bloodlines, Uncanny Trickster and Legacy Champion (and increasing your charisma, naturally) instead of trying to combine it with another companion progression.

[Thurbane]

This is why:

Sure, not by RAW. But hey, if you're breaking the game with wonky RAW anyway, go for broke! :smallbiggrin: