Wild Magic Sorcerer help...

[Starchild7309]

I am currently a wild magic sorcerer, lvl 7, playing through the Rise of Tiamat...My question is, after playing for about 8 sessions now I have yet to have a wild magic flair up. My DM has me roll every time I use meta magic, Tides of Chaos, Bend Luck or any Flexible Casting. I just never roll a 1 of the d20. While I am sure there are times that it might have been possibly catastrophic if it did go off poorly, its rather boring as the main "feature" of my class does nothing, ever. Am I looking at this wrong? Is this normal? Is there any way to make it happen? So far I feel like a nerfed dragon sorcerer.

[Pyon]

Well, it's not your "main" feature. Bend Luck and Tides of Chaos are powerful enough by themselves, they can be absolutely destructive in the same situations.

But I get your point, Wild Magic Surges are the reason you play Wild Mage. I am currently playing a Wild Magic Sorcerer and the DM makes me roll in every spell cast, so I'll probably end up with more surges than you. I think you are just being really unlucky, as you should have gotten a surge by now. Talk to your DM to see if he'll step it up to every spell cast.

[CantigThimble]

The ability is specifically worded so that the DM can choose pretty much exactly how often he wants them to happen if at all. For example while tides of chaos is on cooldown the DM can have you auto-surge any time you cast a spell to refresh it. I've seen one player who just wanted it to go off constantly and so he would make random performance checks with advantage from tides of chaos as his movement before he cast a spell and the DM allowed him to auto-surge whenever he did. You could talk to your DM about using that clause more often, he might be willing to do something like making it a 50/50 chance of surging after using tides.

[Mith]

An idea I had for Wild magic Surges is that you roll 1d20, but the odds of a surge increases with spell level. So on a 1st level spell, it surges on a 1. 2nd level spell on a 1 or 2, 3rd level spell on 1,2,or3, all the way up to your 9th level spells having a 45% chance to surge. It could easily end up being too much, so I wouldn't really suggest this option unless the party is high enough level to take a full fireball of damage without dying.

[RulesJD]

I am currently a wild magic sorcerer, lvl 7, playing through the Rise of Tiamat...My question is, after playing for about 8 sessions now I have yet to have a wild magic flair up. My DM has me roll every time I use meta magic, Tides of Chaos, Bend Luck or any Flexible Casting. I just never roll a 1 of the d20. While I am sure there are times that it might have been possibly catastrophic if it did go off poorly, its rather boring as the main "feature" of my class does nothing, ever. Am I looking at this wrong? Is this normal? Is there any way to make it happen? So far I feel like a nerfed dragon sorcerer.

You know that after you use Tides of Chaos, the DM can make you roll on the Surge Table after you cast your next 1st level or higher spell, right? Basically just roll with advantage right before combat (I use it for Initiative) and then your next first level spell should trigger it.

[Starchild7309]

You know that after you use Tides of Chaos, the DM can make you roll on the Surge Table after you cast your next 1st level or higher spell, right? Basically just roll with advantage right before combat (I use it for Initiative) and then your next first level spell should trigger it.

This is what I thought, the way I read it I thought it would cause a surge, the DM read it as though you only get the d20 chance of causing a surge.

[Elderand]

This is what I thought, the way I read it I thought it would cause a surge, the DM read it as though you only get the d20 chance of causing a surge.

Your DM is wrong.

[RulesJD]

Your DM is wrong.

What sucks about Wild Magic is that it's worded in such a way that your DM always has discretion because they "may" let you roll on the surge table.

[Starchild7309]

I was hoping there was some clarification to the ruling by someone official, but have not found anything. It kind of sucks because I moved on from one character that was not that much fun to play to this one with the idea of chaos surrounding him for good r/ping opportunities, but since I have not shared what I can do in game and nothing has happened it's been rather lame. I am talking to the dm to push the tides of chaos, but he is pretty hesitant even though he said he was fine with wild magic prior to rolling it up.

[Blas_de_Lezo]

I am currently a wild magic sorcerer, lvl 7, playing through the Rise of Tiamat...My question is, after playing for about 8 sessions now I have yet to have a wild magic flair up. My DM has me roll every time I use meta magic, Tides of Chaos, Bend Luck or any Flexible Casting. I just never roll a 1 of the d20. While I am sure there are times that it might have been possibly catastrophic if it did go off poorly, its rather boring as the main "feature" of my class does nothing, ever. Am I looking at this wrong? Is this normal? Is there any way to make it happen? So far I feel like a nerfed dragon sorcerer.

Back in 2nd edition, the Wild Mage had a 1st level spell called something like "Chaos Wave", and it realeased automatically a Wild Magic Surge (although 2nd edition surges were very dangerous to wild mages), giving you a minimal attempt to control it. I would ask my DM to research for a similar spell.

[SharkForce]

Back in 2nd edition, the Wild Mage had a 1st level spell called something like "Chaos Wave", and it realeased automatically a Wild Magic Surge (although 2nd edition surges were very dangerous to wild mages), giving you a minimal attempt to control it. I would ask my DM to research for a similar spell.

nahal's reckless dweomer. and it was broken horribly, because you could have it duplicate the effect of any spell you know if you manage to control it, regardless of level (in other words, you could cast level 9 spells with a level 1 spell slot).

of course, that's *if* you control it (but it was still broken OP).

[Addaran]

In the game i play, my friend's sorcerer gets increased chances after using Tides of Chaos. I'm not sure but i think it's something like 1 to 9 on the D20.
Could probably work as well for Bend Luck and/or flexible casting.

Also, Tides of Chaos woul kinda suck if you can only ever use it once per day cause it never recharge. =/

[Starchild7309]

I think I might have the DM seeing it the other way, not sure, he is thinking about it. He is being difficult. Also, on a side note, there isn't really the magic mart thing, but we have an opportunity to look for magic items in the city we are in. I have a bunch of gold, what sort of thing would be good for a sorcerer? I don't use weapons or have any proficiency for armor..so what should I look for. I don't have any access to the DMG so I am not even sure whats available.

[SharkForce]

how much is "a bunch of gold"?

also, does your DM use the completely ludicrous system in the DMG, or does he assign values to magic items based on some other system (which is probably better, if only because the DMG system is so bad)?

[Starchild7309]

how much is "a bunch of gold"?

also, does your DM use the completely ludicrous system in the DMG, or does he assign values to magic items based on some other system (which is probably better, if only because the DMG system is so bad)?

I have no idea...I will find out I suppose when I go searching. He is a pretty by the book type so probably the one in the DMG.

[Zalabim]

Let me look up some appropriate items. Broom of Flying. Stone of Good Luck. Mantle of Spell Resistance. Ring of Fire Resistance. Wand of Wonder.

Should be useful or thematically appropriate.

[Markoff Chainey]

Another problem with the DM's discretion is that the DM has to always think about your ability and keep it in her mind... very annoying for a DM.

This is what we use on our table: (It's actually more of a clarification than a rule change, but it releases the DM of his "duty" to watch for your surges..)

Wild Magic Surge and Tides of Chaos

Whenever you cast a spell, roll a d20. If the result of the d20 is equal to or less than the spells level, you must roll on the wild magic chart. Immediately after you do so, you regain the use of your Tides Of Chaos ability, if you have this ability and have already expended it.



If I were you, I would sell it to the DM with the argument that he has for sure other and more important things to keep in his mind than my surges and that the principle of "chaos" is well reflected by the dice.

[FightStyles]

Wild Magic Surge and Tides of Chaos

Whenever you cast a spell, roll a d20. If the result of the d20 is equal to or less than the spells level, you must roll on the wild magic chart. Immediately after you do so, you regain the use of your Tides Of Chaos ability, if you have this ability and have already expended it.


This is the system we use as well. I attempted only rolling ones but also had the same problem that they never came up. Since, (2 sessions, 4 hours long), I've had only 1 wild magic surge. But it made me happy. Before, I went 5 sessions without a single one (although should have had 2 with the new rulings).

When you increase the spell level and they increase more and more, you'll be higher and higher levels which will reduce the effect of the infamous self-centered fireball. And you'll gain the ability to roll "advantage" on the table. So I wouldn't worry about the fireball and increased surges as much.

[Segev]

Mechanics like this one, where the DM just decides whether to even have you check to see if it works, always bug me. Not because DMs are jerks, inherently, but because it really doesn't introduce anything. The DM can already just decide to invoke something, if he wants to. I know, this gives him explicit permission, but you either have an antagonistic DM, who isn't going to ever give you a cool thing if he can avoid it, a cooperative DM, who will give it to you nearly all the time unless it's starting to unbalance the game, or an indifferent DM, who probably is not going to give it to you because he just won't think about it (or will give it to you all the time because you'll ask and he'll say 'sure').

And, from the DM's perspective, there's no guide to how often it "should" happen. If it's the DM's choice, clearly it's not meant to happen every time it 'could.' So what should guide the DM in making his decision? No advice is given.

Even a little bit of fluff, such as, "In situations of high stress or around intense magic, the DM may..." would be better, because then it's something the DM can make a judgment call with a basis in his knowledge of the game state.

A better rule would be, "roll the d20 every time you cast a spell; on a 1, roll on the wild magic table. When you've used Tides of Chaos, the DM may choose to forgo the roll and have you roll on the wild magic table automatically."

At least there, the "DM call" element is just an extra bit of permissiveness, rather than hinging an entire class feature on the DM bothering to ask you to/let you do something.

[CantigThimble]

If you wanted to set up a system that could function without bugging the DM then I'd suggest something like the 5% base chance, plus 10% for each of the following: used metamagic, slot was generated with font of magic, tides of chaos is on cooldown.

[Starchild7309]

Thanks everyone for suggestions. My DM was a little surprised that I wanted it to happen. All the ideas you have offered, I offered to the DM and he is thinking it over. I hope it works out.

[RulesJD]

Best Method:

Use the Rules as Written, BUT you keep track.

Use Tides of Chaos on your Initiative roll. Then, when you cast your 1st level or higher spell, remind the DM that you used Tides of Chaos and he can have you automatically roll on the surge table for that spell. Proceed to use Tides again, remind DM again, ad nauseum.

The rules as written are good, but it's on the player to remind the DM each time they become relevant. Most DMs simply don't have the ability to remember when you used Tides last or that you need to roll a d20 each time, so keep track of that yourself and remind the DM.

[Temperjoke]

My group (which is on hiatus right now) has a Chaotic Neutral Gnome that was trying to figure out how to deliberately cause Wild magic surge rolls. She wanted it so badly, and the rest of us like to gamble, that the DM allowed her to roll for it every time she cast a spell. Although he maintains discretion on whether to allow it to happen or not (like if it summons something that he has to spend an hour trying to set up, we're using Fantasy Grounds so some of the random stuff like summons isn't automatic).

[Douche]

An idea I had for Wild magic Surges is that you roll 1d20, but the odds of a surge increases with spell level. So on a 1st level spell, it surges on a 1. 2nd level spell on a 1 or 2, 3rd level spell on 1,2,or3, all the way up to your 9th level spells having a 45% chance to surge. It could easily end up being too much, so I wouldn't really suggest this option unless the party is high enough level to take a full fireball of damage without dying.

Or you could have the chance go up each time you unsuccessfully surge. If you miss the first one, the next one is 2/20, then 3/20, etc until you have a 100% chance to surge!

That'd be sorta predictable though, and I guess you could potentially exploit it when you know your next spell will definitely surge

[SharkForce]

Or you could have the chance go up each time you unsuccessfully surge. If you miss the first one, the next one is 2/20, then 3/20, etc until you have a 100% chance to surge!

That'd be sorta predictable though, and I guess you could potentially exploit it when you know your next spell will definitely surge

well considering the setup requires that you have previously not rolled a surge 19 times, with each time getting successively more probable, i'm not sure there's much need to worry about it.

[Talamare]

Wild Magic is garbage as RAW

Most of the effects ONLY work when the DM tells you to, and even then its a 5% chance

Wild Magic Surge says "The DM 'can have you roll a d20'"
Tides of Chaos says 'the DM 'can have you roll a d20"
Bend Luck is just like a really crappy Cutting Words
Controlled Chaos only does things if WMS and ToS does stuff...
Spell Bombardment comes in too damn late

Even if this is the world's nicest DM and says, anytime you use a non-cantrip spell you can roll to see if it goes Wild
a 5% chance is still really rare

It's literally checking to see if you Crit... but then again, Crits are basically always good...
Wild Magic can have you blow yourself and your entire team up

[RulesJD]

Wild Magic is garbage as RAW

Most of the effects ONLY work when the DM tells you to, and even then its a 5% chance

Wild Magic Surge says "The DM 'can have you roll a d20'"
Tides of Chaos says 'the DM 'can have you roll a d20"
Bend Luck is just like a really crappy Cutting Words
Controlled Chaos only does things if WMS and ToS does stuff...
Spell Bombardment comes in too damn late

Even if this is the world's nicest DM and says, anytime you use a non-cantrip spell you can roll to see if it goes Wild
a 5% chance is still really rare

It's literally checking to see if you Crit... but then again, Crits are basically always good...
Wild Magic can have you blow yourself and your entire team up

Wrong, and this is why I wish people would actually read the PHB.

Using Tides means you can AUTOMATICALLY roll on the surge table, not roll a d20. It bypasses the d20 mechanic and goes straight to the surge table. And it lets you roll with advantage, aka initiative roll, practically every combat. That is insanely good.

[Elderand]

Wrong, and this is why I wish people would actually read the PHB.

Using Tides means you can AUTOMATICALLY roll on the surge table, not roll a d20. It bypasses the d20 mechanic and goes straight to the surge table. And it lets you roll with advantage, aka initiative roll, practically every combat. That is insanely good.

And with elemental bombardment, you can potentialy outdamage draconic sorcerer. Fringe benefit but benefit nontheless.

[Talamare]

Wrong, and this is why I wish people would actually read the PHB.

Using Tides means you can AUTOMATICALLY roll on the surge table, not roll a d20. It bypasses the d20 mechanic and goes straight to the surge table. And it lets you roll with advantage, aka initiative roll, practically every combat. That is insanely good.

Okay, but it still says the DM can have you do it

Meaning it still could potentially never happen

[SharkForce]

bend luck isn't nearly as bad as you say. it is actually one of the more powerful abilities in the game for a full caster.

bend luck works on saving throws. cutting words does not.

and that, right there, is worth a lot when you pair it up with a full spellcaster.

not that cutting words is bad, by any means; you can use it in a variety of powerful ways, each of which can be extremely useful.

but abilities that modify saving throws, especially enemy saving throws, are very rare. only a divination wizard's portent is a better saving throw modifier offensively, and it is much more limited in how often you can use it.

[RulesJD]

Okay, but it still says the DM can have you do it

Meaning it still could potentially never happen

Which if you read the posts above, is clearly stated. That's why I said ask your DM, and if they're are okay with Wild Magic RAW, you're good to go. If not, then you're screwed and play a different kind of Sorc.

[beamersrq]

Here's an email I sent to our DM and new to RP player about her Wild Magic Sorcerer (he wasn't familiar with them so wasn't using it at all):

Having just played a Wild Magic sorcerer to 8th level, I wanted to point out the importance of a frequently overlooked part of it's first level abilities since it's entirely dependent on the DM as to how much or how little it occurs.

At first level you get two Sorcerous Origin abilities that are interrelated.
1. Wild Magic Surge:
DM can have you roll a d20 after casting a spell of 1st level or higher, on a 1 roll on the Wild Magic Surge table.

2. Tides of Chaos:
You get advantage on one attack/ability check/saving throw per long rest OR can regain another use only IF:
DM can have you roll directly on the Wild Magic Surge table after you've cast a spell of 1st level or higher

So her 3rd level sorcerer currently has 10 total spell slots level 1 and higher, meaning she can get a maximum of 11 uses of advantage per day (ignoring sorcery point conversions to spells).

Compare that to what the other PHB sorcerer gets instead of the above:
1. Draconic as a bonus language
2. Double proficiency on Charisma checks vs dragons
3. +1 HP per level
4. Unarmored AC is 13 + DEX (basically free Mage Armor saving a spell known & slot to cast it & it's not limited to 8 hour duration)

To get any reasonable use out of the Wild Mage's sorcerer abilities the player needs to use the advantage from Tides of Chaos frequently and the GM needs to let them reset it by having them roll on the Wild Magic Surge table after casting a spell instead of having them roll a d20 for a 5% chance and no reset.

How it usually plays out:
Use Tides of Chaos to roll with advantage
Cast spell
DM has player roll d20
On a 1, roll on Surge table (note this does NOT reset Tides advantage), for anything over a 1 nothing else occurs

How it should work more often:
Use Tides of Chaos to roll with advantage
Cast spell
DM has player roll on Surge table, which resets Tides advantage, and brings out the Wild Magic part of the character

This is the only way the Wild Mage can make use of their Tides of Chaos ability as intended, otherwise it becomes a once per day ability that is hoarded in case you really need it. Once my DM had me roll on the Surge table consistently it immediately felt like a Wild Mage, and the RP was better - 2 rounds of spells in the finale, first 2 flumphs appeared & ran out of the cavern, next round a unicorn did the same. That's why I play wild mages.

[ryan92084]

They should have made the whole class DM/Table optional instead of the abilities. Once the DM agency is taken out of the abilities it's a perfectly viable option.

For a house rule we increase the number that has to be rolled to trigger a surge every time one isn't triggered. That wasn't for balance reasons though, the sorc just wanted their spells to be extra "fun". We toyed with having the bend luck resetting adding the d20 roll in and just increasing the number to compensate but I can't recall where we ended on that. I leave the paperwork up to the sorc and they seem to be enjoying it.

[Segev]

At the very least, it would have been nice if the subclass had given some advice to DMs as to what should influence whether they have the sorcerer roll the d20/on the table (depending on whether he's used Tides or not) or not after any given spell. As-is, the DM is left to wonder just how often he's supposed to do it.