Winged Boots: Better than Broom?

[RickAllison]

Previously, I had thought that the Winged Boots gave a 30 ft fly speed, which was okay but the broom and carpet seemed far more useful. I just learned it is actually equal to walking speed, which brings up this discussion. Namely, can those boots be significantly better than the broom or carpet?

I am specifically looking at the Monk suplex grappler. With the added movement speed of the monk, and with the ability to fly at will rather than needing actions, the monk can grab someone and fly straight up, drop them and slam down on top of them. It would obviate the need to fiddle around with Jump and would enable a flight speed of 60 ft at higher levels. I know it's a niche build, but can anyone see a problem with this, or other builds that could enjoy the benefits of the boots more than the broom?

[Lines]

The broom costs a tenth the amount and doesn't have a time limit, I'd say in most cases it's better.

[RickAllison]

The broom costs a tenth the amount and doesn't have a time limit, I'd say in most cases it's better.

They are both uncommon. You might be thinking of the carpet, which behaves like the broom but with more capacity.

[Lines]

They are both uncommon. You might be thinking of the carpet, which behaves like the broom but with more capacity.

That I was. Then I'd say it's mostly circumstancial, given the broom is usually faster but might require a hand to steer.

[RickAllison]

That I was. Then I'd say it's mostly circumstancial, given the broom is usually faster but might require a hand to steer.

Remember that the boots benefit from any boosts to the walking speed of the PC (Haste, Longstrider, the aformentioned Unarmored Movement, Mobile) while the broom could very easily be ruled to not gain those bonuses since the movement is set and powered by the broom/carpet rather than the creature. So a hasted humanoid wearing the boots would beat out the broom without any other fiddling around under that interpretation.

[TheRedTemplar]

Remember that the boots benefit from any boosts to the walking speed of the PC (Haste, Longstrider, the aformentioned Unarmored Movement, Mobile) while the broom could very easily be ruled to not gain those bonuses since the movement is set and powered by the broom/carpet rather than the creature. So a hasted humanoid wearing the boots would beat out the broom without any other fiddling around under that interpretation.

This is correct. I can also tell you that, while the boots have a time limit, it's a massive amount of time allotted (four hours total) than can be broken up into segments as small as a minute (a typical combat round) and slows your descent to 30 feet a round if you start falling (fall off the broom and, well, splat!). Additionally, your DM may require you use a hand or both to steer the broom, while the boots (being boots) just let you fly around normally. Also, (in my opinion) the boots look cooler. The main downside with the boots is that they require attunement, while the broom does not, so thats something it has over them. But whether that's worth it or not is up to you.

[RickAllison]

This is correct. I can also tell you that, while the boots have a time limit, it's a massive amount of time allotted (four hours total) than can be broken up into segments as small as a minute (a typical combat round) and slows your descent to 30 feet a round if you start falling (fall off the broom and, well, splat!). Additionally, your DM may require you use a hand or both to steer the broom, while the boots (being boots) just let you fly around normally. Also, (in my opinion) the boots look cooler. The main downside with the boots is that they require attunement, while the broom does not, so thats something it has over them. But whether that's worth it or not is up to you.

The attunement thing is something I had not picked up on (I thought the broom required it, so thank you) and is a significant boost for players with generous DMs. However, a minute is not a combat round by the books, but rather ten rounds. That means that if we assume that only three rounds average get used for each minute of flight (due to wasted time, etc.) that still leaves 720 rounds of combat before it would need recharging. The boots might be bad if a PC wants to constantly fly, but that limitation does not matter for someone who just needs to fly for short bursts.

Additionally, boots are at-will while the broom requires an action to activate and an action to turn off. That last part is rather important for a suplex wrestler, as the broom makes it hard to land back on top of the dropped target :smallbiggrin:

[TheRedTemplar]

Additionally, boots are at-will while the broom requires an action to activate and an action to turn off. That last part is rather important for a suplex wrestler, as the broom makes it hard to land back on top of the dropped target :smallbiggrin:

Indeed, the winged boots are far better for someone who plans to ground-pound his enemies into the dirt. Sadly, I was unable to get a pair of winged boots for my Luchador. But I did get Boots of Striding and Springing, levels in monk, and a Jump spell. The end result is not me flying, but rather me jumping around ~80-100 feet in the air and chucking that poor son of a gun back at the earth. Then falling on him (using slowfall to remove as much damage as I can from myself). If I take no damage, I then regrapple him. If I take damage, then I use 5 feet of movement to stand up again, and then regrapple him. Rinse and repeat. It's not as fun or powerful as flying and dropping someone, but it's pretty hilarious to see a dwarf grabbing an owlbear and jumping 100 feat in the air before piledriving him for what amounts to 20d6 damage.

I know that last little tidbit has nothing to do with the main topic, but I thought it might be a funny thing to share here.

[RickAllison]

Indeed, the winged boots are far better for someone who plans to ground-pound his enemies into the dirt. Sadly, I was unable to get a pair of winged boots for my Luchador. But I did get Boots of Striding and Springing, levels in monk, and a Jump spell. The end result is not me flying, but rather me jumping around ~80-100 feet in the air and chucking that poor son of a gun back at the earth. Then falling on him (using slowfall to remove as much damage as I can from myself). If I take no damage, I then regrapple him. If I take damage, then I use 5 feet of movement to stand up again, and then regrapple him. Rinse and repeat. It's not as fun or powerful as flying and dropping someone, but it's pretty hilarious to see a dwarf grabbing an owlbear and jumping 100 feat in the air before piledriving him for what amounts to 20d6 damage.

I know that last little tidbit has nothing to do with the main topic, but I thought it might be a funny thing to share here.

That was the original idea! Then I realized that instead of grabbing the Ring of Jumping to increase my jumping, I could just cut out the middle man and fly (our DM is very generous with magic items; makes up for setting us up against enemies who can OH-KO us :smallwink:).

[Shaofoo]

The thing is that neither are guaranteed to exist. As a player you have no recourse as to what magic items exist in the game. You can't just pick and choose the magic items that you get unless the DM gives you permission.

A good way to look at it is if the Broom is better than nothing because in no way will the DM allow boots. Of course he can allow the boots but not the brooms or neither and be a wash.

Magic items are not balanced against one another, it is balanced based on the DM's willingness to break the game. So a broom might be okay due to the restrictions placed but not the boots. You shouldn't consider magic items when making characters.

[RickAllison]

The thing is that neither are guaranteed to exist. As a player you have no recourse as to what magic items exist in the game. You can't just pick and choose the magic items that you get unless the DM gives you permission.

A good way to look at it is if the Broom is better than nothing because in no way will the DM allow boots. Of course he can allow the boots but not the brooms or neither and be a wash.

Magic items are not balanced against one another, it is balanced based on the DM's willingness to break the game. So a broom might be okay due to the restrictions placed but not the boots. You shouldn't consider magic items when making characters.

Actually, in this case one or the other are guaranteed :smallbiggrin: With our starting budget (2000 gp), we can buy magic items. Additionally, by page 38 of the DMG, it is entirely possible by those tables to start with an uncommon magic iterm, so your argument is non-applicable. Yes, a DM can decide to only put one kind of flying magic item, but that doesn't affect a discussion about whether one magic item commonly considered weaker can be stronger than another based on specific circumstances. Keep it on topic, please.