How would you balance preserving versus defiling in 3.5e/Pathfinder?

[AnonymousPepper]

Anybody who's in my campaign (coughcoughRPGaddict29), you can stop reading right now. Although the title itself is a spoiler. Ah well.

Anyway.

So I'm planning on sending my players to Athas for the final leg of their journey in my plane-hopping campaign, via Sigil as usual.

I've got a good spread of good and evil players in the party, and a good variety of classes too (NE artificer, LG paladin [I'll figure something else out for his stuff on my own], LE warder, CG swashbuckler, TN wizard, LN wizard probably trading out for a CG Spheres of Power inquisitor by the time we get there), all very high level though (19, and with the intent of going epic). And I decided I definitely wanted to enforce preserving and defiling magic as a mechanic; it's just not Dark Sun without it.

How can I make preserving and defiling a meaningful choice? How would I properly implement it in such a way that it's an actual, compellingly balanced option of moral choice versus power? Not to mention, one that affects diverse magical systems from off-plane like an artificer, a wizard, and a spherecaster?

I'm not a fan of the Athas.org 3.5 conversion's treatment of it; given the choice, I don't think even without the moral choice attached any wizard would particularly like to take a full round action to kick their caster level up by 1, that's just so not worth it (though at least it's not a casting time of 1 round).

I feel like the right way to go is to penalize preserving magic, i.e. anyone who's used to the raw power ordinarily granted by their magic has to take a non-trivial hit in order to not defile the environment and not bring down the wrath of everyone around them (this being Athas, where everyone's running around with psionics, not a brilliant idea even for strong evil PCs); this makes it more and more tempting to defile in dangerous situations (which, on Athas, are many) where a caster might feel like, "if only I could do what I could do back on the other world, I could easily take this," and possibly succumb and start down the road of defiling.

I just have no idea how I'd implement this exactly, numbers-wise. And I mean I'm not 100% sure this is the best idea, just the best I could come up with.

Thoughts? Ideas?

[Starbuck_II]

Anybody who's in my campaign (coughcoughRPGaddict29), you can stop reading right now. Although the title itself is a spoiler. Ah well.

Anyway.

So I'm planning on sending my players to Athas for the final leg of their journey in my plane-hopping campaign, via Sigil as usual.

I've got a good spread of good and evil players in the party, and a good variety of classes too (NE artificer, LG paladin [I'll figure something else out for his stuff on my own], LE warder, CG swashbuckler, TN wizard, LN wizard probably trading out for a CG Spheres of Power inquisitor by the time we get there), all very high level though (19, and with the intent of going epic). And I decided I definitely wanted to enforce preserving and defiling magic as a mechanic; it's just not Dark Sun without it.

How can I make preserving and defiling a meaningful choice? How would I properly implement it in such a way that it's an actual, compellingly balanced option of moral choice versus power? Not to mention, one that affects diverse magical systems from off-plane like an artificer, a wizard, and a spherecaster?

I'm not a fan of the Athas.org 3.5 conversion's treatment of it; given the choice, I don't think even without the moral choice attached any wizard would particularly like to take a full round action to kick their caster level up by 1, that's just so not worth it (though at least it's not a casting time of 1 round).

I feel like the right way to go is to penalize preserving magic, i.e. anyone who's used to the raw power ordinarily granted by their magic has to take a non-trivial hit in order to not defile the environment and not bring down the wrath of everyone around them (this being Athas, where everyone's running around with psionics, not a brilliant idea even for strong evil PCs); this makes it more and more tempting to defile in dangerous situations (which, on Athas, are many) where a caster might feel like, "if only I could do what I could do back on the other world, I could easily take this," and possibly succumb and start down the road of defiling.

I just have no idea how I'd implement this exactly, numbers-wise. And I mean I'm not 100% sure this is the best idea, just the best I could come up with.

Thoughts? Ideas?

Well, mine:
Preserver: +1 to SR one target of a spell
Defiler: +1 hit, damage
Arcane casters who have defiled must roll a Will save DC 10 + spell level + amount of times previously defiled, failure means next spell defiles. Regardless of choice.


Couple feats:

Fel Magic (Arcane):
Effect: When you Defile with a damaging dealing spell, you may deal your Int mod (minimum 1) in negative energy (ignores resistance) to up 6 allies within 20 feet. Enemies hit by your spell take additional negative energy equal to your Int mod + Wis mod for each ally damaged.

) Agonizing Radius: Your defiling techniques are particularly painful.
Benefits: The penalties for being caught within your defiling radius increase by one (i.e. from –1 to –2).

4) Distance Raze
You can gather energy for spells at a distance.
Benefits: You can move the center of your defiling circle (on the ground) up to 10 feet per caster level, in effect moving the entire circle of defiling.
Normal: Your defiling circle is centered on you.

5) Destructive Raze
You can focus the energy you absorb from plants to increase the damage your spells inflict.
Benefits: Add +2 to damage per damage die inflicted by evocation spells when defiling.

6) Efficient Raze
You can gather energy more efficiently, utilizing the maximum energy potential of a given terrain.
Benefits: Treat the terrain you gather energy in as one category better when you defile. E.g. a spell cast in barren terrain (–1 spell save DC and –1 penalty to caster level checks) is treated as if cast in infertile terrain (no spell save modifier and no penalty to caster level checks). In abundant terrain the bonuses to spell save DCs and spell checks are increased by an additional +1. This feat has no effect in the Obsidian Plains.

7) Sickening Raze
Your defilement makes others sick.
Prerequisites: Agonizing Radius.
Benefits: Creatures within your defiling radius become nauseated (DMG 301) in addition to any other penalties for 1 round.
8) Deadly Defiling:
Effect: Once/day, defiler may elect to add 2d6 negative energy damage a spell. In addition, each creature (friend or foe) in the radius takes necrotic damage equal to 1d8 and must make a Will save DC 10+caster + casting stat modifier or be dazed until end of turn. Those that fail each turn may remake a save as a free action at beginning of there turn. This damage ignores immunities and cannot be reduced in any way.
Special: At level 11, the damage can be upgraded to 2d10, but the damage to each creature is increased to 2d8.

9) Preservers Blessing (Arcane):
Effect when you Preserve you or one ally within 2 squares gains temp hp equal to your Wis mod (minimum 1) for 5 rounds.

10) Unsickened Preservation: When you cast, within 10 feet, you also create a bubble of protection , no one can gain penalties from defiling in that area that round.

11) Efficient Preserve: Instead of +1, the bonus is doubled to +2

12) Barrier Breaking Preservation: Prereq-Preservers Blessing; You can instead gain the bonus to hit.

13) Blessing Improved: Prereq-Preservers Blessing; the temp hps are doubled.

14) Blessing Inspired: Prereq- Preservers Blessing; The target of the temp hps gain +1 hit/dam for the duration



This is in addition to the +1 caster if take longer to cast.

[Malroth]

Preserving: Casting is full round action unless already longer,
Defiling: +2 effective spell levels of Metamagic applied for free, selected at time of casting Similar will save as above but with lower starting DC.