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View Full Version : Pathfinder [PF] The Omni-Sorcerer Build - Needs Legality Check



Endarire
2016-03-08, 04:14 AM
Greetings, all!

This is a build concept that requires a legality check. The essence is learning a variety of Sorcerer spells via paragon surge, Expanded Arcana, and the Human Sorcerer favored class bonus, but of the same spell level as my maximum castable. Below are the pertinent points needing legality checking.

1: Can I use the Magical Lineage trait applied to the feat Heighten Spell to allow me to access spells of my highest spell level for the Human Sorcerer Favored Class Feature? Note that if I Heighten a Grease spell by 1 level with this trait, it's treated as a level 2 Sorcerer spell cast from a level 1 Sorcerer spell slot. At later character levels, I can Heighten Grease to higher spell levels to continue to fulfill prerequisites to learn Favored Class bonus spells at my highest spell level instead of one less. For example, if I'm a Sorcerer6, I could Heighten Grease by 3 spell levels and cast it from a level 3 slot, but have it be treated in all ways as a level 4 spell. This combo is attractive to me due to it expanding my versatility as a Sorcerer, and I realize that I can't use the Heighten Spell feat to Heighten a spell above spell level 9.

Note that as a Half-Elf, I specifically qualify for things as if I were a Half-Elf, Human, and an Elf.

Relevant wording from Heighten Spell: "All effects dependent on spell level... are calculated according to the heightened level." This also may matter, "The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level." As a Sorcerer, I don't prepare spells but I do cast them!

If allowed, the net effect of a "Yes" ruling to this is me spending a trait and a feat initially and my favored class bonus each character level to know one additional Sorcerer spell of the highest spell level I can cast.

Half Elf: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/half-elf#TOC-Standard-Racial-Traits
Human Sorcerer Favored Class Feature: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer#TOC-Favored-Class-Bonuses
Heighten Spell: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/heighten-spell-metamagic---final
Magical Lineage: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/magical-lineage

2: Paragon Surge: The FAQ has changed it to be 'choose once at the first casting of this spell for the entire day.' If we're using the FAQ ruling, how does that interact with the feat Emergency Attunement? And, yes, my first question was in part so I could use Paragon Surge on Expanded Arcana to gain spells known of any spell level I can cast as a Sorcerer.

Emergency Attunement: http://www.archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Emergency%20Attunement
Expanded Arcana: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/expanded-arcana
Paragon Surge: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/paragon-surge

3: Could I instead apply the Half Elf's Multitalented racial ability to Sorcerer to get two favored class benefits per favored class level? This wouldn't be the same benefit (so no bonus spells twice), but bonus spells and either skill points or HP per level.

Psyren
2016-03-08, 09:03 AM
1) Magical Lineage + Heighten doesn't actually do anything. You raise the spell by one and then lower it by one, and everything that keys off the spell level will calculate accordingly.

2) Emergency Attunement doesn't interact with Paragon Surge+Expanded Arcana. You can use them both just fine. What specifically do you expect to happen here?

3) No, it has to be a second class entirely. You can't use this to "double-dip" with a single class.

Florian
2016-03-08, 02:54 PM
Well...

1) Magical Lineage/Spell Hunter and Highten Spell lead nowhere. This is a zero sum game where we talk about the total CL and any reduction here isnīt taken into account.

2) What do you expect to happen? Halved duration, double feat choice? Not going to happen based on the errata.

3) Waaah? What gives you that idea? We could approach that topic using a VMC, but without one?

Grim Reader
2016-03-08, 03:55 PM
Seems to me that Emergency Attunement will work with Paragon Surge -on the first casting. Nice Find!

The reason Im saying it'll only work on the first casting of the day is because subsequent castings in a day does not grant a choice of options.

Endarire
2016-03-08, 04:54 PM
Heighten + Magical Lineage: The notion was that Heighten would increase the spell's actual level by 1, but Magical Lineage would reduce the slot level by 1. This actual spell level/slot level disparity is why Empower Spell doesn't increase save DC, but Heighten Spell does.

Florian
2016-03-08, 05:00 PM
Heighten + Magical Lineage: The notion was that Heighten would increase the spell's actual level by 1, but Magical Lineage would reduce the slot level by 1. This actual spell level/slot level disparity is why Empower Spell doesn't increase save DC, but Heighten Spell does.

Sorry, but that is what doesnīt work. Heighten is based on the final result and the reduction counteracts that.

Larsen
2016-03-08, 05:47 PM
For the combo Heighten + Magical Lineage, I would say that it is a first level spell with an effective level of 2 cast in a 1st level spell slot.

It means its effects are treated as a 2nd level spell (increase DC).

But it does not mean you are capable of casting 2nd level spells.

Psyren
2016-03-08, 05:49 PM
Magical Lineage specifically says "final adjusted level" is 1 lower, so I don't think anything can key off the higher level, DC included.

EDIT: What Florian said.

Larsen
2016-03-08, 06:02 PM
In the prd it says :

Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level

If adjusted level and effective level are the same thing then you are right. I guess better wording could have been used.