E6 for D&D5?

[Georlik]

I'm currently running a rapid-progression campaing and it is taking its toll on my suspension of disbelief. So I'm starting to reminisce of the good old days, when fighters were actually looking forward to acquiring Lord status and managing their castle. I want my next campaing to have lower level expectations. In 2nd edition 9th level was effectively an end for the "mortal realms" adventure at which you either retire or start visiting other planes of existence. Similar line of thought provoked an "E6" ruleset for 3.5 edition of D&D.
So what would be an accaptable cut-off point for D&D 5 at which threats become more of a "superheroic" nature?

[Grod_The_Giant]

So what would be an accaptable cut-off point for D&D 5 at which threats become more of a "superheroic" nature?
Level 20? No-one ever gets really good at anything in 5e.

[JoeJ]

I'd keep the same levels but slow down advancement by using milestones instead of xp.

[eastmabl]

Level 20? No-one ever gets really good at anything in 5e.

11th level rogues with expertise and reliable talent get really good at skills. Assuming a max stat in a skill, you're looking at a minimum roll of 23 (10 + 2*4 + 5). Come 13th level, the rogue cannot fail a skill check unless it's nearly impossible.

I guess that's the point of the game where the die roll doesn't matter for someone.

[SharkForce]

11th level is probably right around where things start to get a little crazy if you go beyond. but it's a good place to go to, because all classes are fairly well balanced at that point and it's kind of a power spike for everyone... everyone gets something good at level 11 if they stay single classed, nobody gets anything too crazy. fighters are getting their third attack, casters get level 6 spells, warlocks get their third spell slot, paladins get improved divine strike, etc. it's also where proficiency bonus goes up by 1, which is fairly important for several classes to work properly.

you're powerful enough that with good planning you can take on almost anything, but not so powerful that you can just completely ignore anything too easily either.

[Doug Lampert]

One suggestion in previous incarnations of this thread was to simply cap the maximum spell level that exists (higher level slots exist, but no spells of those levels).

E6 caps at level 3. Alternately cap things at level 5 spells since that's where 5th starts trying to seriously restrict casters.

[Tanarii]

Check out the PHB and DMG levels of play, and make your cutoff either the top of the tier, as appropriate for the type of campaign you want to run. So 4, 10 or 16. Alternately you could go 1 level into the next tier to represent "epic" abilities.

Then go to the DMG, check out the epic boons. Either use them straight out of the package, or scale them down for ones you consider overpowered. You'll have to decide what XP you consider appropriate to earn them. 30000 XP may be too much, unless you're awarding them without modification.

Edit: I've liked the sound of the "no spell effects higher than X" method for a while now. I'll have to consider it for a campaign some time soon. Probably a narrative / story-plot driven one.

[Theodoxus]

I'm currently running a rapid-progression campaing and it is taking its toll on my suspension of disbelief. So I'm starting to reminisce of the good old days, when fighters were actually looking forward to acquiring Lord status and managing their castle. I want my next campaing to have lower level expectations. In 2nd edition 9th level was effectively an end for the "mortal realms" adventure at which you either retire or start visiting other planes of existence. Similar line of thought provoked an "E6" ruleset for 3.5 edition of D&D.
So what would be an accaptable cut-off point for D&D 5 at which threats become more of a "superheroic" nature?

Couple things: 1) Why are you running it as rapid progression - and a corollary, are you planning on slowing that down at a certain point? From my experience, rapid progression to 5th (or just plain starting at 5th level) is preferred at our table. As a DM, I'm less than thrilled at concocting encounters for 1-4th level... at the lowest level, it's very easy to get a few people knocked out, which greatly increases the chances for a TPK, and makes those who survive the encounter with positive hit points reinforcing their character concept. (I literally have a guy who always plays a moon druid for the HP soak it provides - because he was the sole survivor in a goblin ambush when the party was 2nd level.)
When the party gets to 5th level though, I slow things way down. It might take 4 or 5 sessions to get to 5th, but probably that number again for each level after. Throwing fireballs, Spirit Guardians, Extra attacks and boosted cantrips is a lot of fun, and getting more playtime doing those things because the XP gain is slowed way down (I use milestones for this reason), makes for better adventures - again, in my experience.

I do listen to the players though - when they've accomplished a few things and begin to grumble about lack of level progress, I'll toss them a bone... but I typically keep things interesting enough that that's a rare event.

2) What about 5E is straining your suspension? This ties closely to #1, but I'm curious if it's a simulationist or gamist problem. 5E is definitely more centered to a gamist playstyle - so if you're trying to make it adhere to our universe of physics and biology, you're going to have a rough time. Fortunately "It's magic, that's why" covers a lot, though there are certainly things that can be done to mitigate the problem. Lots of homebrew concepts are out there for just that.

[Tanarii]

When the party gets to 5th level though, I slow things way down. It might take 4 or 5 sessions to get to 5th, but probably that number again for each level after.How long are your sessions? It takes something on the order of 34 encounters (combat or otherwise) to get to level 5, assuming an even mix of Medium/Hard, and for combat encounters an average of 1.5 multiplier (2 creatures). I can see doing it in 3-4 hours sessions, but I generally expect 8+ two hour sessions.

[doc225]

I've stopped giving XP and just have them level when i deem it's time to level.

I find it saves me the headaches of everything. I make sure I stay within reasonable bounds on what i throw at them at a time or in rapid succession, but I don't have them track XP or anything. I hit a point where it's time to level, and I tell them, usually a bit before the need the extra juice to face down a new threat.

[BootStrapTommy]

Yeah, 5e is relatively lower power. Any of the monsters that are actually fun to fight aren't until 10+.

[Mara]

E12

7th level spells and all that start at 13. Half casters get 3rd level spells. 3rd casters have 2nd.