Large scale combat for PCs

[Moosoculars]

All,

I am looking to roleplay a large scale battle as part of a campaign highlight. The PC's will be one part of a good army who will be in a pitch battle with another, lets say, evil army. They are not in command of the army but a part of it. In the past I have tried a variety of ways to run large battles but they always seem slow, mechanically tricky and in the end non atmospheric. I know previous D&D games had rules for large battles (and I have used these in the past) but nothing for 5e or recent additions from what I can see.

to define large scale I am looking at say 300 vs 600 or something to that effect.

I am looking for any ideas on how these battles can be run effectively and I have a few ideas that I would also like opinions on.

1) Assume that the PCs fight without using resources (spells and HP etc) until they run into a battle highlight such as a enemy warlord, banner holder, spell caster etc. Then draw up a board (we use minis) for this section of the battle and run like an encounter. (a bit like island of the lizard king for all of you who can remember Steve Jackson & Ian Livingstone books) - Downside is this is just like an encounter

2) Run one big battle and have the map in sections where the fight is pre rolled / calculated so that the PC's can interact with a much larger battle. Downside - is that say a fireball into a pre calculated section of the fight is hard to then see how that changes the pre calculated fight on the fly. But without this then how do the PC's influence the battle?

3) Run a big battle but make the PC's skirmishers on the sides (still important but not in the thick of it).

4) Have a big fight and rule that the armies proceed on the basis of how the PC's do. They are the heroes after all. If they do damage / kill foes then compare this to a summary table. Say 25 HP+ a round damage then the PCs win less than this PCs lose.

Other thoughts

Short Rests? How long is a battle? - There is a moon druid in the party who would love a short rest. One should be possible I think when the PC's drag out injured friends or the like.
NPC healers? Should PCs be abelt to retreat and heal? or will this be limited to Spare the dying in combat?

This should only be one actual game session. So I am thinking 4-5 hours of play.
PCs are about 5-6th Level

All ideas welcome and thanks to you all.

[Sir cryosin]

First of all what does the battlefield look like. What are the two armies mainly made up of.

[Mhl7]

I did a big scale battle for the last session of Tyranny of Dragons. My players liked it a lot.

At first I tried to cook up some large scale battle with armies and all, but with the rules of D&D it is just an headache. So I set it like a sequence of 7-9 encounters. However I put two ingredients that, in my opinion, did the trick to give the feeling of battle.

First, all the encounters were very thematic and occasionally there were allies.
Second, at the end of each round I let some random stuff happen. It can be either good or bad, I had a pregen table on which I rolled. Things that could happen were: a dragon breath on the party, a volley of arrows falls on everyone, friend cleric cures, enemy spellcaster throw a fireball from afar, ecc..

I will also give a break down of the encounters which I ran:

- at the beginning there was the charge: two armies crushing against each other. The PC are faced with 2-3 lines of enemies (4-5 enemies per line) and they get to go over them. They have a very reduced area of movement, like 20-25 ft wide, because all around there are other enemies and allies, they just have to focus on their portion of the battlefield. It is not important to kill these enemies
, they just have to pass them and charge forward.

- then they skirmish with some less organized enemies. Again in a very restricted area, this time they stop and fight if they want, because now it is not a charge any more, but just a confusing mess.

- they reach a trench dig by the enemy on the top of a small, steep hill (30 ft difficult terrain). On the trench there are enemies with a lot of ranged firepower. There are allies prone beyond some rocks: the chief asks the heroes to open a way up the hill, because they are stuck

- right beyond the trench there is the entrance to the outer part of the enemy base. While the heroes are finishing cleaning the trench a big nasty devil comes through the entrance to defend it.

- Once inside, the heroes are alone (maybe a collapse in the corridors separates them from their allies) and they meet with one of the big bosses in an hall. The guy was specifically seeking them out in the mist of the battle. (here there are no random events, because now they are inside and the place is more quiet than the battle outside)

- Then they found a lone enemy playing with the corpses of some ally. They can roleplay or go straight for the kill. In my case the bad guy was feeding the corpses to some tamed beast. My player made a quick job of the man and claimed the tamed beast (spoiler: they were killed in the next encounter)

- The heroes are outside again, in an open area inside the enemy base. Randon event table is on again. At the centre of this area they can see the main building where the enemy headquarters are. It is a mess: there is people fighting everywhere because the good guys breached in different areas of the outer fortifications. The PC can now face some random guy, depending on how many resources you want them to waste.

- Afterwards I set another big encounter: 5 adult dragons (one per colour) are watching the entrance of the main building. An impossible challenge for the heroes. But they meet with a squad of elves equipped with arrows of Dragon Slaying. The elves can provide support fire and maybe slay a Dragon sneaking in before the fight break out. Eventually other allies join the fight and the PC just have to fight one of the dragons.

- Now it is time for some more RP. A renegade character who was supposed to be a strong ally is seen slaying a general of the good guys. Maybe because he is led to believe that it was the right thing to do.

- The heroes spot one of the enemy generals giving orders from the top of a tower. He is a wizard and dispatches orders via flying creatures. My PC decided to teleport in and slay the guy. I wanted him to escape, therefore I put him in a far away place that I though safe, but they really did a great job. In DD you never know what might happen..

- It is time to enter the headquarters. The PC are faced with the last line of resistance. Typically a lot of low-level suicide PNG. In my case they were fanatic and ready to die for the cause (I really needed the PC to wast some more resource before the climax). An alternative is to play them as desperate, maybe they resign if the PC confront them with the fact that their faction has lost. Opportunity RP here.

- At last the big boss. They find him, they fight him and it is over..

- Just joking, there is another Bigger Nastier Boss!

Well, the encounters were a lot!! I just noticed it now as I am writing this.

SHORT REST: once in all this mess, there is an ally that can use magic to make the PC take a short rest in a few minutes. BEWARE: this kind of magic is very expansive!! Certainly not replicable. Maybe it drains youth or your life force just to cast the spell. Maybe they have potions that can do it, and they never found them again. Maybe just the adrenaline rush is enough to make them regenerate in a very short period. You choose the fluff.

[Lacco]

The question would be: are the two sides evenly matched, so that the PCs will make the final impact whether their side wins?

Basically, I would model the two sides as two characters, with the PCs providing bonuses by their actions, with each "round" being a single skirmish lasting few hours or even day. Since the routing of army, not killing of all its members is important, the "HP" could represent overall morale, damage being the ability of the army to kill, maim and route the army members.

As they are not directly "enrolled", the PCs should not be bound by the usual hierarchies. I would let them decide what they want to do - if they want to join the skirmish (fighting against the most powerful enemy there would be in the skirmish, or against group of enemies - increasing the damage done in that round), assist with the tactical stuff in the general's tent (providing damage bonuses), heal the wounded (=giving back HP to the army), scout, raid, sabotage the opposing army's supplies, etc.

[Bubzors]

I have not used the rules but Wizards has published something for 5e.

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/unearthed-arcana-when-armies-clash

My experience with this stuff is it doesn't work out to be fun. Gets bogged down in bookkeeping and such. I think it's much better to have the PC's as elite forces that deal with specific problems like

-The Giants on that hill are raining deadly rocks upon the advance troops. Take care of them

-a gap in the lines has opened up. Punch through and strike at the leadership of the enemy army

- infiltrate the walls of a fortress before the battle, fighting your way into the gatehouse to open it to your allied forces

- those entrenched on the left flank are being hit hard and need backup. Hold the line at all costs

I would try to design each of these as normal encounters with fluffing about how fighting like this is happening all around you. Maybe an ally or two. I also like the other idea that had been said of occasionally random things happening due to influences from the rest of the battle

[Kurt Kurageous]

Either you invest the time to really really learn the UA "When Armies Clash" and understand what it is and is not, or you will present your battle as a series of scenes within the battle. How to choose?

Ask yourself "what is my intent?

Is the battle itself a crucial part of the main story? Then learn the UA. Prepare to play it out to the end, regardless of outcome to PCs. It will create a whole bunch of paths to follow if the PCs survive and contribute in a meaningful way. Instant lore and legend!

Is what the characters do in the battle the main story? Then use scenes. The PCs will contribute in ways more meaningful TO THEM, but less so to the battle.