Magic Initiate and svirfneblin Magic

[Addaran]

Hey all, i'm about to start DMing (got experience but first time in 5ed) and i got some questions for my players.

1) Would you let a character use his normal slots for a magic initiate spell from another spell list? RAW it's no, but they said in the UA or tweet that it wouldn't break balance much. However i'm wondering cause it would be to pick Armor of Agathys, a spell that is only in one specific list, with limited spell casting.

2) A player asked for svirfneblin magic. Is it balanced though? Seems to give at will lvl 3 spells and a few lvl 2 spells. Compared to magic initiate it seems big. Or is the svirfneblin balanced around being able to get that feat? (Getting high lvl spells isn't much of a problem, other casters will have them too by then, but it's the quantity that seem big...)

[Lines]

Hey all, i'm about to start DMing (got experience but first time in 5ed) and i got some questions for my players.

1) Would you let a character use his normal slots for a magic initiate spell from another spell list? RAW it's no, but they said in the UA or tweet that it wouldn't break balance much. However i'm wondering cause it would be to pick Armor of Agathys, a spell that is only in one specific list, with limited spell casting.

2) A player asked for svirfneblin magic. Is it balanced though? Seems to give at will lvl 3 spells and a few lvl 2 spells. Compared to magic initiate it seems big. Or is the svirfneblin balanced around being able to get that feat? (Getting high lvl spells isn't much of a problem, other casters will have them too by then, but it's the quantity that seem big...)

By definition, snifshelbies can't be balanced around the feat - races should be roughly equivalent to each other, as should feats, balancing it around the feat either means svimnargles are too strong with the feat or too weak without it. Keep in mind magic initiate can be used on such gems as find familiar, booming blade and guidance - the sfupneblo feat gives higher level spells, but they are from a fixed list. Most likely concerning is if they're an abjuration wizard, they might just want the feat for infinite recharge on arcane ward and want a race other than skipnebly to go with it, likely variant human.

And no, using normal spell slots doesn't really break anything.

[Zaq]

Hey all, i'm about to start DMing (got experience but first time in 5ed) and i got some questions for my players.

1) Would you let a character use his normal slots for a magic initiate spell from another spell list? RAW it's no, but they said in the UA or tweet that it wouldn't break balance much. However i'm wondering cause it would be to pick Armor of Agathys, a spell that is only in one specific list, with limited spell casting.

2) A player asked for svirfneblin magic. Is it balanced though? Seems to give at will lvl 3 spells and a few lvl 2 spells. Compared to magic initiate it seems big. Or is the svirfneblin balanced around being able to get that feat? (Getting high lvl spells isn't much of a problem, other casters will have them too by then, but it's the quantity that seem big...)

My guess is that Svirfneblin Magic is balanced around the fact that the spells are chosen for you. (A feat that gave your choice of any 3rd level spell at-will with no material component would obviously be way too good, but since Nondetection is kind of a niche spell anyway, it's really not that powerful. Though of course that raises the concern of why it's normally a 3rd level spell with a 25 gp cost, but whatever.) The spells that aren't Nondetection are useful enough that the feat has a reason to exist but not so powerful that they're crazy—Disguise Self is a good spell to know, but only having it active for a max of 1 hour per day is a big limitation. Blur takes an action in combat (and your Concentration slot, if you use that for anything else) and isn't going to trivialize anything. Blindness/Deafness is limited by the fact that the enemy gets lots of saving throws against it (and those saving throws are limited by the fact that only Wizards normally care about INT; if your INT is high enough to make that saving throw difficult, you're probably already a Wizard, so you probably could cast Blindness/Deafness normally anyway). They aren't so niche as to be useless, but neither is a character with those spells 1/day going to tower over a character with a different feat.

[Addaran]

Yeah, i'm aware of the adjurator trick with nondection. I don't think it's for that but i'll be sure to ask tonight when i see him. Would it really break balance though? Seems it's more or less like a warlock casting false life between each combat?

You both seems to think it's not a big deal for the spells, since it's a fixed list. (personally i think it's very good spells =P) ANd it's true the player would be a wizard, so effectively it's giving him +2 2nd lvl slots and +1 first lvl slot. (if you don't count the niche at-will nondection)
Would a feat that gives two 2nd lvl slots and one first lvl slot be too good? (if you could take it with sorcerer, cleric, , any full caster)

[RickAllison]

Yeah, i'm aware of the adjurator trick with nondection. I don't think it's for that but i'll be sure to ask tonight when i see him. Would it really break balance though? Seems it's more or less like a warlock casting false life between each combat?

You both seems to think it's not a big deal for the spells, since it's a fixed list. (personally i think it's very good spells =P) ANd it's true the player would be a wizard, so effectively it's giving him +2 2nd lvl slots and +1 first lvl slot. (if you don't count the niche at-will nondection)
Would a feat that gives two 2nd lvl slots and one first lvl slot be too good? (if you could take it with sorcerer, cleric, , any full caster)

For the abjuration, it's because the ward is able to infinitely charge since casting the spell adds to the ward. False Life, in contrast, runs off temporary HP which cannot gain beyond a certain point.

[Lines]

For the abjuration, it's because the ward is able to infinitely charge since casting the spell adds to the ward. False Life, in contrast, runs off temporary HP which cannot gain beyond a certain point.

No, the ward has a limit of int mod+2x wizard level.

[RickAllison]

No, the ward has a limit of int mod+2x wizard level.

Okay, that's not so bad then. I misread the ability :smallsmile:

[Lines]

Okay, that's not so bad then. I misread the ability :smallsmile:

I think it mostly avoids being broken because it's difficult for a wizard to take that much advantage of being able to regularly absorb a few damage every combat - it'd be really noticable on a fighter, not so much on a wizard.

[Addaran]

Cool, thanks everyone. =)

[RickAllison]

I think it mostly avoids being broken because it's difficult for a wizard to take that much advantage of being able to regularly absorb a few damage every combat - it'd be really noticable on a fighter, not so much on a wizard.

A niche build that could take great advantage of it would be the transformation grappler. Gets a nice chunk of HP to add on to avoid losing concentration while transformed.

[Lines]

A niche build that could take great advantage of it would be the transformation grappler. Gets a nice chunk of HP to add on to avoid losing concentration while transformed.

Indeed, though it's not exactly useless on a regular wizard - take your first level in fighter, walk around with proficiency to con saves, 21 AC and an arcane ward. Enjoy never losing a concentration spell.