Banjo not joining the Norse Gods looming large now

[JonahFalcon]

It's all Elan's fault for giving up too soon. Thor and Odin were ready to party with Banjo!

[littlebum2002]

So instead of Banjo not being able to vote because he's not part of the pantheon, he'd be unable to vote because Elan can't cast Summon Proxy.

[PallentisLunam]

But if Banjo had joined the Norse Gods, Elan may have abandoned Bard and become a Cleric!

Aren't there even feats/builds for muticlassing those?

[Peelee]

But if Banjo had joined the Norse Gods, Elan may have abandoned Bard and become a Cleric!

Aren't there even feats/builds for muticlassing those?

Even assuming that had happened, there would have been one fewer god voting yes, or one more demigod voting no, depending on how high-ranking Banjo would be.

It would end up giving the exact same result. And, all else being equal, I'd rather not have the Banjo Deity joke be an actual thing.

[littlebum2002]

But if Banjo had joined the Norse Gods, Elan may have abandoned Bard and become a Cleric!

Aren't there even feats/builds for muticlassing those?

Even if Elan multiclasses to Cleric, his Wisdom is arguably not high enough to cast anything high or even medium level.

[ChillerInstinct]

Even if Elan multiclasses to Cleric, his Wisdom is arguably not high enough to cast anything high or even medium level.

Not to mention, how many levels has Elan gained since he started worshipping Banjo? Or rather, what level was he even at when he did? Assuming Summon Proxy is, just to spitball, a 5th level spell, and the fact that Elan has to be at least a 12th level Bard to have access to the Song of Freedom he used to break Belkar out of the illusion at Girard's Gate... and that's not even including Dashing Swordsman, so that'd require him to be Epic, if my fairly minuscule knowledge of D&D rules (like, seriously, I'm operating on what little I've cobbled together from Google and a few dozen hours in the D&D MMO) is correct.

The math just doesn't work out. It's actually kind of funny JUST how badly the confirmation that a Banjo worshiper would have to have Summon Proxy in order to qualify for the moot kills any idea of Banjo being capable of changing the outcome. It's borderline overkill.

[malloyd]

The math just doesn't work out. It's actually kind of funny JUST how badly the confirmation that a Banjo worshiper would have to have Summon Proxy in order to qualify for the moot kills any idea of Banjo being capable of changing the outcome. It's borderline overkill.

Why would Elan be Banjo's highest level cleric? At the rate adventurers climb levels, there's been plenty for somebody to have climbed to mid levels or higher since Banjo first manifested.

For that matter he might have one, after all Giggles can presumably only cover three alignments among his new worshippers and the obvious candidate for members of his pantheon who take the nonconformists....

[orrion]

But if Banjo had joined the Norse Gods, Elan may have abandoned Bard and become a Cleric!

Aren't there even feats/builds for muticlassing those?

Sure, and then we'd never have gotten to this point because they would have just killed the High Priest of Hel instantly and had Elan cast Resurrection on the corpse.

[multilis]

This page just shows more the arrogance of OOTS thinking world revolves around them.

Giggles has many orc worshippers, potentially missionaries have spread to other orc cultures and Giggles may now be match for even Dark One. Banjo as the rival of Giggles may be at same level similar to how Crystal was at same level as rival Haley. Teen orcs may favor Banjo as a way to rebel against Giggles, possible that Banjo now has teen orc high priest of unusually high level power to challenge Redcloak. You can't prove that this isn't true.

I predict after all all the other gods fall to Snarl, Banjo and Giggles as the last gods standing will challenge snarl to a pie eating contest. No one will win because they will run out of pies and so call it a draw and the 3 will share power over what is left of the universe. Elan will get his "happy ending" as respected founder of the Giggles religion, as the Age of Orcs will begin.

[Seward]

Elan would have had to go Favored Soul (wisdom is the casting stat) but he'd still be unlikely to be powerful enough for the spell - and even if he WAS powerful enough, the odds that he would TAKE the spell are basically nil. (Fav Soul are like sorcerer and Bard, choosing spells on level up)

So I doubt it would have made any difference, even assuming Banjo was powerful enough to grant spells with only one follower.

[Asphid]

Are we seriously still doing the Banjo thing?

[multilis]

Are we seriously still doing the Banjo thing?

Just as Giggles foretold, some would be unbelievers, mocking the way of the slapstick. But then would come the day of unravelling and they would be cast down with the cowards and the thin skulled and the tree huggers into the Forest Of Horrors where they would forever be tormented by Banjo singing Celine Dion songs.

Do not let your heads go soft, my brothers! Use the stick, Harden your brothers heads, just as Our Nale helped his brother Elan.

[Vinyadan]

Elan is Banjo's prophet, but he doesn't need to also be his high priest. Someone else might have taken the dirty job upon himself. A non-theistic druid or cleric or favoured soul wouldn't even have needed to swap deity, and I can see Leeky as high priest of Banjo.

[littlebum2002]

Elan would have had to go Favored Soul (wisdom is the casting stat) but he'd still be unlikely to be powerful enough for the spell - and even if he WAS powerful enough, the odds that he would TAKE the spell are basically nil. (Fav Soul are like sorcerer and Bard, choosing spells on level up)

So I doubt it would have made any difference, even assuming Banjo was powerful enough to grant spells with only one follower.

So poor Veldrina has to permanently lose a Spell Known just do she can be a messenger for the gods? Ouch.

[Jothki]

Would Banjo need a proxy if he's actually physically present?

[Grey Pilgrim]

So poor Veldrina has to permanently lose a Spell Known just do she can be a messenger for the gods? Ouch.

As Veldrina was completely unaware of the purpose of her mission and we've seen her getting "ZOT" passively I conclude she did not actually cast any spells herself and was merely a trusted proxy.

[Peelee]

As Veldrina was completely unaware of the purpose of her mission and we've seen her getting "ZOT" passively I conclude she did not actually cast any spells herself and was merely a trusted proxy.

I posit that she herself was the Proxy that was summed by the collective Western Pantheon clerics/deities/however you have it work.

[Jasdoif]

I posit that she herself was the Proxy that was summed by the collective Western Pantheon clerics/deities/however you have it work.I'm going to be boring and propose that simply expending a spell slot of the appropriate level to provide the divine energy is sufficient for the deity to channel their voice, as long as you're in the central chamber. Summon proxy, on the other hand, needs to be known or prepared, and is for providing nonverbal cues as well as a voice (and so is only meaningful for speeches).

[KorvinStarmast]

Elan is Banjo's prophet, but he doesn't need to also be his high priest. Someone else might have taken the dirty job upon himself. A non-theistic druid or cleric or favoured soul wouldn't even have needed to swap deity, and I can see Leeky as high priest of Banjo.
There is no puppet but Banjo the Snarl, and Elan is his prophet. Elan is also a terrorist, which assessment the Sapphire Guard erroneously attributed to the entire Order of the Stick, sending Miko after them. Only Elan is a threat to the world.

Elan is that most dangerous of fanatics who hides among the regular adventurers, pretending to be mild mannered, pretending to be kind, pretending to be just a bard.

Elan is an anarchist. He wants to watch the world burn.

Evidence?

He Blew Up The Freaking Gate that protects the world from the Snarl. And he played stupid, as in "oops, uh, sorry, silly Elan, me and my Int dump stat ..." Because of his high charisma, the deception rolls keep coming up with high numbers. He's got Haley wrapped around his ... uh ... finger, yeah, that's what I meant.

His happy ending is the Snarl returning to eat the world, and all of the Gods. Elan's bliss.

Banjo is a mere façade, an aspect of the Snarl that has already spread the Snarl's pernicious influence by spawning the Orc God Giggles. Slowly, under the radar, the snarl's tentacles will captivate a warrior race. They'll be his muscle, just as The Dark One uses Goblins for muscle.

Roy is fighting the wrong enemy.
Xykon is not the enemy, Elan is.

Elan is the enemy within. He is purest evil. Blood runs in the family. Heck, there's a book title about it. Clue bat smacking all OoTS fans in the head. Identical twins tend to be more alike than not, and nature / nurture is not an on-off switch. it's always both that combine to influence someone's character.

Nale showed us all, time and again, that Elan's blood is tainted with purest evil. Neither apple fell far from Tarquin's tree. Elan's deception is, in a word, masterful -- even his father bought it.

Tarquin is evil. Elan is his son, and is filled with rage at having been abandoned. That is how the Snarl found him. The simmering inner rage gives off an aura the Snarl is sensitive to. Elan hides it well, drawing on the power of the Snarl to maintain the false front of "that nice boy who sings pretty songs." The true power of the Snarl is frightening, is it not?

Talky man talks so much that he convinces himself that the evil ones aren't so bad. He wraps himself up in rationalizations and excuse making as he rants on and on about alignment ... his noise blinds him to become tolerant of, and even the advocate of, evil ones.

Belkar
Durkon / Durkula
Elan
Genocidal V
Hardened Criminal Haley

Roy is acting out his role for the forces of evil: Useful Idiot. This allegedly intelligent fighter broke the desert gate. He is beyond deluded. He's the puppet dancing on Elans hand.

Xykon was smart enough to see that, which is why he only broke Roy's sword in their first encounter. (He tossed him off the dragon out of sheer annoyance). This awareness is why Xykon didn't finish them off in the desert. The obviously lame excuse offered by MiTD supposedly saved them -- no, Xykon needed Roy to keep serving evil with his self delusion. The Snarl's goals open opportunities for Xykon. It's a risk, but Xykon's hubris likely costs him against the Snarl in the final confrontation.

Elan starts with E. Four letters. Same as the word Evil. Evil prospers when good men fail to act. Even Belkar gets this. Roy can't see the forest for the trees.

"The greatest trick the devil ever managed was to convince people that he didn't exist."
~ Kaezar Sousse'~

Banjo/Snarl doesn't need the Norse gods. They are his prey. He has useful idiots doing his work for him: the Order of the Stick, whose leader Roy destroyed the desert gate.

Everything is coming together according to the Snarl's plan.

Elan will have his happy ending, and the world will burn. He'll switch instruments from lute to violin, and fiddle as Nero did for Rome. Haley's screams of anguish when the final betrayal comes will be sweet music to his ears.

[Kantaki]

There is no puppet but Banjo the Snarl, and Elan is his prophet. Elan is also a terrorist, which assessment the Sapphire Guard erroneously attributed to the entire Order of the Stick, sending Miko after them. Only Elan is a threat to the world.

Elan is that most dangerous of fanatics who hides among the regular adventurers, pretending to be mild mannered, pretending to be kind, pretending to be just a bard.

Elan is an anarchist. He wants to watch the world burn.

Evidence?

He Blew Up The Freaking Gate that protects the world from the Snarl. And he played stupid, as in "oops, uh, sorry, silly Elan, me and my Int dump stat ..." Because of his high charisma, the deception rolls keep coming up with high numbers. He's got Haley wrapped around his ... uh ... finger, yeah, that's what I meant.

His happy ending is the Snarl returning to eat the world, and all of the Gods. Elan's bliss.

Banjo is a mere façade, an aspect of the Snarl that has already spread the Snarl's pernicious influence by spawning the Orc God Giggles. Slowly, under the radar, the snarl's tentacles will captivate a warrior race. They'll be his muscle, just as The Dark One uses Goblins for muscle.

Roy is fighting the wrong enemy.
Xykon is not the enemy, Elan is.

Elan is the enemy within. He is purest evil. Blood runs in the family. Heck, there's a book title about it. Clue bat smacking all OoTS fans in the head. Identical twins tend to be more alike than not, and nature / nurture is not an on-off switch. it's always both that combine to influence someone's character.

Nale showed us all, time and again, that Elan's blood is tainted with purest evil. Neither apple fell far from Tarquin's tree. Elan's deception is, in a word, masterful -- even his father bought it.

Tarquin is evil. Elan is his son, and is filled with rage at having been abandoned. That is how the Snarl found him. The simmering inner rage gives off an aura the Snarl is sensitive to. Elan hides it well, drawing on the power of the Snarl to maintain the false front of "that nice boy who sings pretty songs." The true power of the Snarl is frightening, is it not?

Talky man talks so much that he convinces himself that the evil ones aren't so bad. He wraps himself up in rationalizations and excuse making as he rants on and on about alignment ... his noise blinds him to become tolerant of, and even the advocate of, evil ones.

Belkar
Durkon / Durkula
Elan
Genocidal V
Hardened Criminal Haley

Roy is acting out his role for the forces of evil: Useful Idiot. This allegedly intelligent fighter broke the desert gate. He is beyond deluded. He's the puppet dancing on Elans hand.

Xykon was smart enough to see that, which is why he only broke Roy's sword in their first encounter. (He tossed him off the dragon out of sheer annoyance). This awareness is why Xykon didn't finish them off in the desert. The obviously lame excuse offered by MiTD supposedly saved them -- no, Xykon needed Roy to keep serving evil with his self delusion. The Snarl's goals open opportunities for Xykon. It's a risk, but Xykon's hubris likely costs him against the Snarl in the final confrontation.

Elan starts with E. Four letters. Same as the word Evil. Evil prospers when good men fail to act. Even Belkar gets this. Roy can't see the forest for the trees.

"The greatest trick the devil ever managed was to convince people that he didn't exist."
~ Kaezar Sousse'~

Banjo/Snarl doesn't need the Norse gods. They are his prey. He has useful idiots doing his work for him: the Order of the Stick, whose leader Roy destroyed the desert gate.

Everything is coming together according to the Snarl's plan.

Elan will have his happy ending, and the world will burn. He'll switch instruments from lute to violin, and fiddle as Nero did for Rome. Haley's screams of anguish when the final betrayal comes will be sweet music to his ears.

That... that makes a frightening amount of sense.:smalleek:
Elan is perfect for this. No one would ever expect him to have sinister motives and thanks to the company he helped Roy to recruit he even managed to distract a Paladin who had sworn to protect the gates enough to evade her attention - no more than that, their questionable character made the Paladin paranoid enough that she murdered the only man who could hold AC’s Gate’s defences together and even destroyed the Gate in Elan’s place.
It was all part of his plan...
Well, not the destruction of Lirian’s Gate maybe, that was for the Snarl what Durkon was for Hel, the chance to get some direct influence.

[Aedilred]

"The greatest trick the devil ever managed was to convince people that he didn't exist."
~ Kaezar Sousse'~

Alas, poor Baudelaire.

[orrion]

"The greatest trick the devil ever managed was to convince people that he didn't exist."
~ Kaezar Sousse'~


Well.. the Snarl never convinced anyone he didn't exist. The gods sealed him away before there were people for him to convince.

[acire]

Are we seriously still doing the Banjo thing?

This is pretty much my feelings on the matter. Banjo as a deity is good for laughs occasionally, but let's be real. He's a puppet.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Alas, even a comic page calling out how stupid it is to want this to happen for real wasn't enough to stop the idea.

We are still getting a literal sexy shoeless god of war right? *Declares his dodge on whoever posts next.*

[Peelee]

Alas, even a comic page calling out how stupid it is to want this to happen for real wasn't enough to stop the idea.

We are still getting a literal sexy shoeless god of war right? *Declares his dodge on whoever posts next.*

I'm casting True Strike just for you. 3.5, not 5th.

[JonahFalcon]

This is pretty much my feelings on the matter. Banjo as a deity is good for laughs occasionally, but let's be real. He's a puppet.

Except in strip #137... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0137.html)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdjhXI4W8AApZ2A.jpg:large

Banjo even smited Roy. Granted, it was a tiny little lightning bolt, but still...

[Cazero]

Banjo even smited Roy. Granted, it was a tiny little lightning bolt, but still...
It was the Prestidigitation cantrip cast by Elan. Not actual divine miracle.
Yes it's unprovable. But since you can't prove that being a mindless, soulless and motionless puppet wouldn't actualy put some sort of strain on Banjo's eventual ascenscion, I believe your point doesn't make more sense than mine.

[JonahFalcon]

It was the Prestidigitation cantrip cast by Elan. Not actual divine miracle.
Yes it's unprovable. But since you can't prove that being a mindless, soulless and motionless puppet wouldn't actualy put some sort of strain on Banjo's eventual ascenscion, I believe your point doesn't make more sense than mine.

Say whatever you want - Banjo was in if Elan pressed the issue. Odin was fully on board with having Banjo join.

[hroþila]

Odin is not omnipotent. Who's to say his taking in Banjo would have made that puppet a god?

[littlebum2002]

Say whatever you want - Banjo was in if Elan pressed the issue. Odin was fully on board with having Banjo join.

So being invited to a pantheon by a deity makes you a deity.

According to that logic, if a local mage's guild had a rather inept leader, and invited a puppet to join the mage's guild, that would automatically make that puppet a wizard?

[Rift_Wolf]

So being invited to a pantheon by a deity makes you a deity.

According to that logic, if a local mage's guild had a rather inept leader, and invited a puppet to join the mage's guild, that would automatically make that puppet a wizard?

Darn right it does!
A penguin could join the army, and it's a soldier. It gets a service number and promotion prospects. It gets promoted to colonel in Chief. It gets a knighthood and is considered an officer. It gets to perform inspections of the Guard. And if any of the Guard smirks about this, they're disciplined as if you'd smirked at your superior officer. You're in the army, and if the army tells you to stand to attention for a penguin, you stand to attention like you were told!
(based on true events)

[Peelee]

Darn right it does!
A penguin could join the army, and it's a soldier. It gets a service number and promotion prospects. It gets promoted to colonel in Chief. It gets a knighthood and is considered an officer. It gets to perform inspections of the Guard. And if any of the Guard smirks about this, they're disciplined as if you'd smirked at your superior officer. You're in the army, and if the army tells you to stand to attention for a penguin, you stand to attention like you were told!
(based on true events)

Does the penguin get the standard pay for its position?

Because everyone loves stupid jokes at some point. But when it comes to things you care about, joke stops. Penguin don't get paid at least the minimum gov salary for its position, then its a joke, not an officer.