Perform, no Bard

[weckar]

Other than being a bard, is there any other significant benefit that can be gotten from (non-musical) perform skills? I just don't like the bard mechanically is all.

[TheCrowing1432]

Earning street gold

[weckar]

At higher WBLs that's hardly significant?

[Elder_Basilisk]

In pathfinder at least, evangelist cleric and sensei monk have bardlike abilities and can enable entry to the battle herald prestige class (which requires perform: oratory).

The scimitar only dex to damage feat dervish dance also requires three ranks in perform: dance.

And their Godzilla clone epic Kaiju has a weakness to song that could be exploited by someone with the perform skill (whether or not they're a bard).

[Piggy Knowles]

The Evangelist from Complete Divine uses Perform (Oratory) checks to do things ranging from the bardlike (inspiring hope and dread in others) to the truly extraordinary (such as converting people to different alignments).

[the_david]

Shadowdancer?

[weckar]

No pathfinder material, sorry. Thanks for the insight though.

The Evangelist is an interesting option, but the mechanics are still quite bard-like. I do like the perform(oratory) focus though (I'd prefer either oratory or comedy, but any non-musical will work).

Shadowdancer is an interesting option. There's actually a number of -dancer PrCs. Do these combine well at all? And are any of them viable entry without Bard levels?

[Deadline]

No pathfinder material, sorry. Thanks for the insight though.

The Evangelist is an interesting option, but the mechanics are still quite bard-like. I do like the perform(oratory) focus though (I'd prefer either oratory or comedy, but any non-musical will work).

Shadowdancer is an interesting option. There's actually a number of -dancer PrCs. Do these combine well at all? And are any of them viable entry without Bard levels?

Not sure what it is about the bard you don't like, but you may want to look at the Jester base class in the Dragon Compendium.

[weckar]

What I don't like about the bard is that his abilities are very co-operation focused. I want to be able to deliver a "the reason you suck" speech and somehow get bonuses for it. It's a very different archetype.
Also, most of the bard's abilities don't really translate well to, for example, perform(comedy).

I don't know, maybe just bad experiences with bards leaving a bad taste or something.

[Deadline]

What I don't like about the bard is that his abilities are very co-operation focused. I want to be able to deliver a "the reason you suck" speech and somehow get bonuses for it. It's a very different archetype.
Also, most of the bard's abilities don't really translate well to, for example, perform(comedy).

I don't know, maybe just bad experiences with bards leaving a bad taste or something.

Maybe look into the Doomspeak feat, and the Inspire Awe abilities?

[The Viscount]

Seconding what Deadline said. Bard has a long list of ACFs and feats that do different things from the "classic" cheerleader bard.

If it's mostly a feel issue for you, you could consider the A-Game Paladin (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471332-Weekly-Optimization-Showcase-quot-A-quot-Game-Paladin-(Tempest_Stormwind)), which is a Paladin that gets many of Bard's musical abilities.

Battledancer from Dragon Compendium is basically a variant monk that uses Capoeira in all but name, though its class features are based off of Tumble and not Perform(dance). It does have perform on its list if you want its abilities to be perform based.

Spelldancer uses perform to do dance based magic.

In the sake of completeness, there is Marshal. It's not literally perform based, though it has perform on its skill list. It does mention that the Marshal actively is speaking to his allies, but this could just as easily be song, chant, or practiced speech. As written its sort of intended to be praising and encouraging troops, but it could just as easily be putdowns of the enemy.

In a more abstract sense, Truespeak is almost like performing, but I wouldn't recommend you roll Truenamer. It prevents you from tasting ice cream.

[Kelb_Panthera]

If you acquire a device that produces a constant undersong effect, take ranks in perform (weapon drill), and take the diamond mind maneuvers that replace saving throws, you can punch lighting bolts and cut fireballs to defend yourself with reactive perform checks that you have virtually no chance of failing.

[Deadline]

If you acquire a device that produces a constant undersong effect, take ranks in perform (weapon drill), and take the diamond mind maneuvers that replace saving throws, you can punch lighting bolts and cut fireballs to defend yourself with reactive perform checks that you have virtually no chance of failing.

You can also combo this with the Insightful Strike line of maneuvers to kill people with Perform checks.

[Hiro Quester]

There are many ways to play a bard, mechanically. Not all bards are singing and prancing fools.

Consider a fear-based debuffer bard, for example (consult the Fear handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809) here for why). You can certainly specialize in perform (oratory).

Doomspeak is a great part of that kind of build.

And since using Doomspeak involves insulting the enemy in ways that impose the -10 to all their saves and checks, you can literally give the "the reason you suck is because X" speech, where X is any insult you have the imagination to produce. It's loaded with fun roleplaying possibilities.

Edit:
The jester is also a great option for a bard-like character specializing in perform (comedy) and tumbling tricks. A friend played a gnome bard Jester many years ago and had a LOT of fun with it.

The performance abilities, instead of singing songs, involve taunting, vexing dialogue, a vicious lampoon, and demoralizing insults.

You do also have the option of inspiring your party, too, though. But even then it's by insulting the enemies they are fighting.