Throw six alchemist fire flasks in one turn

[soldersbushwack]

Just a little trick I thought up. Eldritch Knight also has good synergy because you can summon your weapon back but you could also just carry a bunch of weapons on your person.

Be a Fighter 11 / Rogue (Thief) 3

Grab the Dual Wielder feat

Start the battle with 2 Alchemist Fire flasks in your hands.

As your first attack throw one flask.
As your second attack throw another flask.

Use an object interaction to grab 2 Alchemist Fire flasks (using the
Dual Wielder feat.)

As your third attack throw another flask.

Use an Action Surge.

Use your second action's first attack to throw another flask.

Use the Rogue (Thief)'s Cunning Action to get another object
interaction and grab 2 Alchemist Fire flasks (using the Dual Wielder
feat.)

As your second action's second attack throw another flask.
As your second action's third attack throw another flask.

[Lines]

Theoretically is there any reason you can't just fill a bag with alchemists fire vials and catapult it (as the spell) at your enemies? Fill a 1lb clay urn with alchemists fire vials, that's 3d8 bludgeoning plus 4d8 fire, plus 1d8 bludgeoning and 5d8 fire per spell level. No need to actually use the spell, but it seems reliable - only problem is the cost of the fire.

[Degwerks]

Or use Animate Objects spell to attack with 10 of them. Spell probably will finish being useful after 2 rounds though.

[lordshadowisle]

I love these ideas. Being a maniacal pyromaniac is always fun for one-shots (or NPCs).


Theoretically is there any reason you can't just fill a bag with alchemists fire vials and catapult it (as the spell) at your enemies? Fill a 1lb clay urn with alchemists fire vials, that's 3d8 bludgeoning plus 4d8 fire, plus 1d8 bludgeoning and 5d8 fire per spell level. No need to actually use the spell, but it seems reliable - only problem is the cost of the fire.

For the budget-oriented bomber, you can always replace all but one of the vials with flasks of oil, which weigh the same but are much cheaper (1sp instead of 50 gp!).

[Lines]

Or use Animate Objects spell to attack with 10 of them. Spell probably will finish being useful after 2 rounds though.

That turns a minute long spell that does 10 lots of 6.5 damage a round into a one round spell of 11 damage a hit. On the plus side, that's a potential 110 damage so if the fight's only going to last a round or two it's very good action economy.

[JumboWheat01]

Why throw the flasks at all? Just grapple the poor sod, open his mouth, and poor it in. Keep the vial to sell back to an alchemist later.

Wait, doesn't that technically count as an item interaction? So couldn't you dump a whole mess of them down the unlucky one's mouth?

[RickAllison]

Why throw the flasks at all? Just grapple the poor sod, open his mouth, and poor it in. Keep the vial to sell back to an alchemist later.

Wait, doesn't that technically count as an item interaction? So couldn't you dump a whole mess of them down the unlucky one's mouth?

Remember that you only get one free item interaction per turn. So you could dump one (DM permitting) but not a mess of them.

[JumboWheat01]

Remember that you only get one free item interaction per turn. So you could dump one (DM permitting) but not a mess of them.

Hmm... so... replace "flask" with "fireproof beer-keg" of Alchemist Fire then. A barbarian could totally have the strength to one-hand a keg of Alchemist Fire while grappling with the other.

[Shaofoo]

The problem is that it states it takes an action to throw a flask, a flask is not a weapon so it can't be used by the attack skill and you can't consider them improvised ranged weapons either.

[soldersbushwack]

The problem is that it states it takes an action to throw a flask, a flask is not a weapon so it can't be used by the attack skill and you can't consider them improvised ranged weapons either.

The SRD says:


Alchemist's Fire. This sticky, adhesive fluid ignites when exposed to air. As an action, you can throw this flask up to 20 feet, shattering it on impact. Make a ranged attack against a creature or object, treating the alchemist's fire as an improvised weapon. On a hit, the target takes 1d4 fire damage at the start of each of its turns. A creature can end this damage by using its action to make a DC 10 Dexterity check to extinguish the flames.

I'm fairly certain that you can treat it as an improvised weapon attack which is a form of attack.

Edit:

Actually, you might be right. IMO they should have repeated what they said about the net if they wanted players to understand that they meant to have similar restrictions to the net. It is unfortunate that 5th edition has so many badly worded rules.

[Lines]

Remember that you only get one free item interaction per turn. So you could dump one (DM permitting) but not a mess of them.

Won't work for pouring in mouth (can't see how that would help anyway), but you could easily fill a jar or barrel or pot with them.


The problem is that it states it takes an action to throw a flask, a flask is not a weapon so it can't be used by the attack skill and you can't consider them improvised ranged weapons either.

That's why I mentioned the catapult spell earlier. Fill a clay pot with 24 vials of acid, launch it as a fifth level spell and you're doing 7d8 bludgeoning plus 48d6 acid damage. (turns out alchemists fire is just 1d4 fire damage, which is boring)


Edit: Why aren't we using oil? It's only one silver piece and states if the target takes any fire damage they take an extra 5 from the burning oil, it's 1sp and if you include a vial of alchemists fire or just hit them with firebolt you're golden. Catapult a tied together bundle of oil flasks, 5sp for 3d8 damage and an extra 25 damage on the next fire attack to hit them.

[soldersbushwack]

Why aren't we using oil? It's only one silver piece and states if the target takes any fire damage they take an extra 5 from the burning oil, it's 1sp and if you include a vial of alchemists fire or just hit them with firebolt you're golden. Catapult a tied together bundle of oil flasks, 5sp for 3d8 damage and an extra 25 damage on the next fire attack to hit them.

A DM might rule that you can only get oiled once or something. So one might want to use one of everything. One Alchemist's Fire flask, one Oil flask, one flask of Holy Water and one Acid Vial. You could also add in ball bearings for slapstick comedy. Not sure what one would use for the rest.

But all of this is just trying to get around the seemingly intentional limitation that one cannot use one of these items more than once per action. Really, the only RAI way to get around this is to use summoned creatures and familiars and hired helpers. A skilled hireling is only 2 gp per day. So, really what one should do is just hire 50 mercenaries to throw stuff at opponents.

Not sure what the best mercenaries to hire are assuming that we can grab most monsters in the SRD that are under CR 1/4 and have intelligences greater than or equal to 8. This will probably depend upon your character's own alignment as well.

I'm looking and I'm thinking the Commoner or Guard NPCs are probably what you'd get if you ask the DM for mercenaries.

[Corran]

Just a little trick I thought up. Eldritch Knight also has good synergy because you can summon your weapon back but you could also just carry a bunch of weapons on your person.

Be a Fighter 11 / Rogue (Thief) 3

Grab the Dual Wielder feat

Start the battle with 2 Alchemist Fire flasks in your hands.

As your first attack throw one flask.
As your second attack throw another flask.

Use an object interaction to grab 2 Alchemist Fire flasks (using the
Dual Wielder feat.)

As your third attack throw another flask.

Use an Action Surge.

Use your second action's first attack to throw another flask.

Use the Rogue (Thief)'s Cunning Action to get another object
interaction and grab 2 Alchemist Fire flasks (using the Dual Wielder
feat.)

As your second action's second attack throw another flask.
As your second action's third attack throw another flask.

Havent gone through the rest of the thread yet, so apologies if someone already mentioned it.
You better also take tavern brawler, for proficiency with improvised weapons (ie alchemist fire).

Edit: Also, make sure to throw a flask of oil first, for extra fire damage due to target being covered in oil.

[Lines]

A DM might rule that you can only get oiled once or something. So one might want to use one of everything. One Alchemist's Fire flask, one Oil flask, one flask of Holy Water and one Acid Vial. You could also add in ball bearings for slapstick comedy. Not sure what one would use for the rest.

But all of this is just trying to get around the seemingly intentional limitation that one cannot use one of these items more than once per action. Really, the only RAI way to get around this is to use summoned creatures and familiars and hired helpers. A skilled hireling is only 2 gp per day. So, really what one should do is just hire 50 mercenaries to throw stuff at opponents.

Not sure what the best mercenaries to hire are assuming that we can grab most monsters in the SRD that are under CR 1/4 and have intelligences greater than or equal to 8. This will probably depend upon your character's own alignment as well.

I'm looking and I'm thinking the Commoner or Guard NPCs are probably what you'd get if you ask the DM for mercenaries.

Not seeing where that intent is. Just says it adds 5, and I can't see how extra burning oil wouldn't result in more burning.

[Degwerks]

Not seeing where that intent is. Just says it adds 5, and I can't see how extra burning oil wouldn't result in more burning.

This.

Also carry a sealed pot of poison with arrowheads or small daggers inside. A few oil pots, alchemists fire, & acid vials too. The sharp objects would release possible poison damage along with the animated object damage. Plus you know, fire.

[RickAllison]

Not seeing where that intent is. Just says it adds 5, and I can't see how extra burning oil wouldn't result in more burning.

That depends on if the DM wishes to run things realistically (and now that can of worms is opened...). While more oil would allow for more distribution, some of it will be redundantly applied on areas that were previously hit. My ruling would be a decreasing effectiveness for each extra damage delivered by the same action, so the first would add 5, then 4, then 3, then 2, than 1, then none. Same argument for lobbing multiple things of acid in one barrel, as much of the acid will not be evenly distributed for effectiveness.

Naturally that is a house-rule, but any situation dealing with lobbing multiple containers of something doesn't quite fit the RAW :smallsmile:

[KorvinStarmast]

I count five.

Two-Weapon Fighting

When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand. ...
If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.
I think you added in a bonus action that you don't actually have.


Be a Fighter 11 / Rogue (Thief) 3
Grab the Dual Wielder feat
Start the battle with 2 Alchemist Fire flasks in your hands.
As your first attack throw one flask. As your second attack throw another flask.
Use an object interaction to grab 2 Alchemist Fire flasks (using the Dual Wielder feat.)

As your third attack throw another flask.

Use an Action Surge.

Use your second action's first attack to throw another flask.

Use the Rogue (Thief)'s Cunning Action to get another object
interaction and grab 2 Alchemist Fire flasks (using the Dual Wielder
feat.)

As your second action's second attack throw another flask.
As your second action's third attack throw another flask.

You only get one bonus action in a turn, there is only one attack that gets a bonus action associated with it. So your second attack doesn't get a second bonus action from action surge.

Starting at 2nd level, you can push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment. On your turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and a possible bonus action. The only reason you get any bonus action is that two weapon fighting gave you one bonus action for your turn. An attack is an action, and a bonus action is a bonus action.

As I added it up, you get three attacks due to extra attack as F 11, you get another attack from action surge, and one bonus action (attack) for a total of five attacks.
Where did the other bonus action come from?

But I like the way you think. I also like the idea of throwing a few oil flasks and one or two alchemists flask to save money. (Frugal Fighter needs to save money for beer!)

[RickAllison]

I count five.

Two-Weapon Fighting

I think you added in a bonus action that you don't actually have.

You only get one bonus action in a turn, there is only one attack that gets a bonus action associated with it. So your second attack doesn't get a second bonus action from action surge.
The only reason you get any bonus action is that two weapon fighting gave you one bonus action for your turn. An attack is an action, and a bonus action is a bonus action.

As I added it up, you get three attacks due to extra attack as F 11, you get another attack from action surge, and one bonus action (attack) for a total of five attacks.
Where did the other bonus action come from?

But I like the way you think. I also like the idea of throwing a few oil flasks and one or two alchemists flask to save money. (Frugal Fighter needs to save money for beer!)

Action Surge actually gives the full suite of Extra Attacks. You're thinking of Haste that only gives one attack.

[gullveig]

This thread should have started with: "I love the smell of Alchemist Fire in the morning. Smelled like... VICTORY!"

[Douche]

Or use Animate Objects spell to attack with 10 of them. Spell probably will finish being useful after 2 rounds though.

Not if you can keep animating one shard of glass from each flask!