Last best hope

[hohmeisw]

Given everything that's happened in the current story arc (spoilers if you aren't up to date)...

Are Redcloak and Team Evil the best chance the current world has for continuing to exist?

Since the plan is to move the Gate to the gods' plane (comic 830), their vote to destroy the world would be moot, as the Snarl would be able to escape and destroy them at home, rather than allowing them the fifteen minutes or so Loki suggests they need to destroy the world safely. If he fails, both Hel and the Dark One would receive a large amount of soul power. The next world would likely look much worse than the current world.

With the OotS now chasing Durkon, Redcloak has a great opportunity to actually accomplish his goals and possibly save the world.

[DaggerPen]

I find it... unlikely that the Dark One is on the up and up here. I'd love to see the goblins get a fair shake, but "Don't screw this up" makes me wonder. Gobbotopia is doing really well now. But instead he keeps pushing for the plan?

I know, of course. The Dark One was betrayed when he seemed about to finally get a better life for his people. That he was raised as a god by the force of sheer vengeance. Not a combination of things that make it easy for a god to trust in the success of Gobbotopia, and reasonably so.

But there are a lot of little things adding up here that make me not really trust that the Dark One intends to relinquish his godkilling weapon when the deed is done. Or that makes me trust that he doesn't intend to strike pre-emptively to make sure.

[Razade]

The Dark One's plan is to destroy the world so that he's at the table when the world is remade. The claim is so that Goblins get a more fair shake but who knows. Team Evil's plan isn't the same as Redcloak's plan remember.

[NerdyKris]

The fifteen minutes or so is how long it would take the Snarl to notice. That isn't affected by moving the rift. The Dark One might not have all the information that the other gods have, such as the delay in releasing the Snarl.

But it pretty obvious that the world isn't going to be saved by the puppetmaster behind the main antagonist. And besides the meta reason, The Dark One threatening the gods with the Snarl is going to have exactly the same effect as what's going on right now, since it's the Dark One's plot that is threatening the gates in the first place. He's threatening to release it, so they're going to destroy the world and use that element of surprise to safely recreate the prison. If anything, using the Snarl as a weapon against the other gods would make everyone decide to go with destroying the world before the final gate is destroyed, regardless of Hel's plan.


And the good guys still don't want everyone in the world to die if they can stop it.

[ChillerInstinct]

I actually expect Redcloak and The Dark One are going to get their way... and immediately learn that, turns out, the godkilling abomination is NOT a toy. The Dark One getting devoured by the Snarl would be a pretty fitting end for gambling all of creation on his whim.

To twist the knife, Gobbotopia is very likely not long for this world. We've seen the Snarl reach out of the hole left by Girard's Gate, which is a lot smaller than Soon's. The very best shot the Goblins have presumably ever had to co-exist peacefully with humankind (I mean, they've got trading relations and recognition from big players on the human front, that's pretty good considering the circumstances) is going to get nommed, and if the held beliefs of the Snarl are accurate, all of their souls are going with it. Won't that be a kick in the teeth for ol' Redcloak?

[Jasdoif]

The Dark One threatening the gods with the Snarl is going to have exactly the same effect as what's going on right now, since it's the Dark One's plot that is threatening the gates in the first place. He's threatening to release it, so they're going to destroy the world and use that element of surprise to safely recreate the prison. If anything, using the Snarl as a weapon against the other gods would make everyone decide to go with destroying the world before the final gate is destroyed, regardless of Hel's plan.Exactly. Loki's proposal for delaying the destruction of the world is to wait until the last rift is opened to do it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html), before the Snarl gets out. Redcloak's plan involves opening the last rift so the Snarl gets out.

Redcloak's plan is a second trigger for the gods ending the world, not a way to circumvent that end.

[Markozeta]

Exactly. Loki's proposal for delaying the destruction of the world is to wait until the last rift is opened to do it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html), before the Snarl gets out. Redcloak's plan involves opening the last rift so the Snarl gets out.

Redcloak's plan is a second trigger for the gods ending the world, not a way to circumvent that end.

I'm confused - I thought his plan was to move the rift to the upper planes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html) to terrorize the gods into giving the goblins a better life? I don't think the Dark One wants to release the snarl and kill anyone. Just use it for intimidation sake.

[NerdyKris]

Yeah, I don't think opening the rift is a part of the plan, just a potential side effect. They were intending on doing the ritual when there were four, three, and two other gates still standing. (At no time have they started the ritual, the gates were either blown up or blockaded until they were blown up) But the issue remains that the Dark One's plan is what is threatening the gates and causing the gods to consider ending the world, so completing his plan is just going to end the world that much sooner.

[Jasdoif]

I'm confused - I thought his plan was to move the rift to the upper planes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html) to terrorize the gods into giving the goblins a better life? I don't think the Dark One wants to release the snarl and kill anyone. Just use it for intimidation sake.Destroying the world and sealing the Snarl again would prevent the Dark One from using the rift in such a fashion. And it'd be hard to terrorize the gods with the rift in the upper planes without them knowing about the rift in the upper planes. And, somehow, I don't think they're going to trust the Dark One not to actually release the Snarl in an act of vengeance, whether or not the Dark One is actually intending/willing to do it.

Redcloak's backup "plan" is that if the world is destroyed due to interference with the rifts, the Dark One will be around for the creation of the next world, and will ensure the next worlds' goblins will start off on equal footing. Redcloak doesn't have much incentive to ponder whether the Dark One will refrain from releasing the Snarl if things don't go exactly as the Dark One intends...and that's assuming Redcloak isn't being deceptive, or deceived, about the actual intent in first place.