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OrlockDelesian
2016-03-09, 10:33 PM
Recently two of my Players, a lvl 7 cleric and a lvl 7th barbarian, had to face off against a Dwarven Leader in an Arena.
I made the Dwarf a mountain Dwarf, rolled her stats which where after Racial mods s 20 d 13 c 18 i 13 w 13 c 13 (rolled extremly well)
Her hps where at 170, with a +2 baxe for 1d8+7 damage and +12 to the attack, dwarven plate and a shield +1 for a tottal AC of 23.

A few rounds (and a lost save for hold person which held her immobilized for 2 rounds) she went down.

I went for a Battlemaster build with feats that would make her play like a Dw Defender (shield master, heavy armor master, Sentinel)

The fight ended with the barbarian unconcius and the cleric at 20 hps (out of 70 (hill dwarf with 18 con) still I expected them to lose and lose badly.

The dice rolls where average on both sides.

Did I did something wrong or is it normal for two 7th lvl chars to defeat a 13th lvl one?

Malifice
2016-03-09, 10:52 PM
Recently two of my Players, a lvl 7 cleric and a lvl 7th barbarian, had to face off against a Dwarven Leader in an Arena.
I made the Dwarf a mountain Dwarf, rolled her stats which where after Racial mods s 20 d 13 c 18 i 13 w 13 c 13 (rolled extremly well)
Her hps where at 170, with a +2 baxe for 1d8+7 damage and +12 to the attack, dwarven plate and a shield +1 for a tottal AC of 23.

A few rounds (and a lost save for hold person which held her immobilized for 2 rounds) she went down.

I went for a Battlemaster build with feats that would make her play like a Dw Defender (shield master, heavy armor master, Sentinel)

The fight ended with the barbarian unconcius and the cleric at 20 hps (out of 70 (hill dwarf with 18 con) still I expected them to lose and lose badly.

The dice rolls where average on both sides.

Did I did something wrong or is it normal for two 7th lvl chars to defeat a 13th lvl one?

Two long rest classes [barbarian and cleric] have a greater ability to nova [blow rages and spells] over the NPC you threw at them. This tipped the fight in their favor. The barbarians rage and the clerics hold person spell were the deciding factors remember.

A single encounter Adventuring day like this will favor long rest classes over short rest ones. If your NPC was (for example) a Paladin, then you would have had a very different result indeed.

Sigreid
2016-03-09, 11:02 PM
Not to mention 2 rounds against an immobilized opponent is a huge shift in the battle if there is only one opponent. It reads like if the opponent made either one of those saving throws the two PCs would not have stood a chance.

Sir Pippin Boyd
2016-03-09, 11:09 PM
D&D 5th edition relies less on high scaling bonuses to attack, AC, and damage than previous editions do. In fact, just about the only thing that *does* still scale at the same speed is hit points, which is still (HD+Con)*level. Saving throws no longer scale at all if you're not proficient in them, which means that a level 20 fighter is just as vulnerable to a Wisdom save as a level 1 fighter is.

An overall consequence of this is that a level advantage doesn't mean as much as it used to. If either PC has any kind of save-or-suck ability targeting one of the Dwarf's bad saves, odds are pretty good its an easy win.

Most of what you do get from levels is a shopping list of abilities that generally have more emphasis on utility than vertical scaling, and is still going to be restrained by an unfavorable action economy when you're getting 0-1 actions every round and they get 1-2.

Safety Sword
2016-03-10, 04:48 PM
Basically, what you need to remember that the game is based on several encounters per day. Single encounters are there to drain resources.

Grod_The_Giant
2016-03-10, 05:25 PM
Not to mention 2 rounds against an immobilized opponent is a huge shift in the battle if there is only one opponent. It reads like if the opponent made either one of those saving throws the two PCs would not have stood a chance.
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