Ranger/Rogue Multi Class Build help!!

[SMac8988]

One of my players recently came to me asking for assistance in his build. They had all recently hit level 3 and he went into beast master ranger; picking up a wolf as his pet.

After playing this for a couple sessions and seeing they are close to a level he has asked about multi classing into a rogue for sneak attack sniping with his bow, or using the wolf, as his bonus action, to either flank or knock prone to get melee sneak attack.

I feel it's a simple enough idea, but he was asking what a good level spread, feats, when to switch and stuff I didn't know. So I figured I would bring it to the giants and see what all you can come up with.

Currently he is a halfling, but due to him finding the feral tiefling online I told him he could possibly change, newer player i'm trying to give him some flexibility. I gave them all one feat at level one, he took sharp shooter. And rolled ok stats, I think 16 in Dex, 12 str. 14 wis. Rest was close to 10.

Thank you all so much in advance!!!!!

[Sir Pippin Boyd]

I've always been a big fan of Rogue multiclassing, and he can definitely create a very flavorful and functional character.

The first thing to highlight is Expertise, an ability that almost singlehandedly justifies a Rogue 1 dip on most classes. In a game where static bonuses are hard to find, doubling proficiency on two of them virtually guarantees supremacy in the selected skills. As a Ranger x\Rogue 1, I'd suggest Expertise in Stealth and Perception or Stealth and Survival to make an extremely effective wilderness scout.

By going to Ranger x\Rogue 2, cunning action permits him to Dash as a bonus action which can be an incredibly powerful tool for ranged kiting characters.

At Ranger x\Rogue 3, Assassin's free crits on surprised enemies make this a very potent ambushing build, and synergize with Ranger's extra attack feature, though not as well as Fighters Extra Attack\Action Surge combo would.

If he's mainly interested in using the pet for flanking/tripping to get sneak attacks in, he may find he prefers to go Ranger 3/Rogue x. If this is the case, the Thief archetype might be a better choice, offering uncontested supremacy in Stealth checks that will make scouting a breeze.

In any case, Sharpshooter makes a good offensive feat for a bow wielding ranger/rogue, and if he takes Perception as one of his Expertise skills, Observant can further raise his Passive Perception to ensure he's the only one that gets to do any sneaking.

[Mors]

Rogue / Rangers are a well endorsed combination for a sneaky multiattaking assasin. Given that your player has a halfling beastmaster though, there is a more interesting niche to follow.

Halflings are small, meaning that they can ride their mounts. Give him a Pteranodon and he can be a flying archer. I suggest that he stays ranger until lvl7, where he can order the animal companion to take the help action as a bonus action.

After that, multiclassing for two lvls in Fighter for Action Surge and Rogue Assasin for Cunning Action and Assasinate is a good choice. From feats, he will want Crossbow Expert, assuming he is fine with using a hand crossbow, and then stat increases. Lucky and mounted combatant have their place though and worth a look.

[tieren]

Normally I would say to stay in ranger til level 5 for the extra attack before MCing into something else.

Here he can have the wolf in melee (even if it just dodges all the time) and he can stay at range and always get sneak attack damage so he won't take the dpr hit of delaying extra attack as badly.

Ranger and rogue synergize really well. Higher level ranger abilities are actually lower level rogue abilities (like uncanny dodge and evasion), so you can take more than a couple of rogue levels and still be better than a straight ranger in almost every way.

I wouldn't go assassin, surprise just doesn't come up enough. Go arcane trickster and you can move the MC caster spell slot table and probably get better higher level slots than the ranger table. If you do dip fighter as well consider EK to keep the slot progression up.

I think something like ranger 5/AT 7/EK 8 would work really cool.

[Ewhit]

Well he chose beastmaster so let him ride it as a mount for fun when he is able too terrain.

I have a wood elf ranger hunter/rogue assassin. Range bow
1. High dex for rapier if needed bonus, range bonus, ac bonus
2. Alertness feat go first almost always
3. Ranger hunter colossus slayer extra damage
4. Chance for surprise rogue extra damage
5. Assassin bonus going first extra damage
6. Raise each equally but stop at ranger 5 for extra attack
7 continue rogue for lvl 7 evasion ranger gets evasion uncann dodge lvl 15. Rogue at lvl 5 and 7
8. then choose rest in ranger or rogue. Depending what u want.
ranger at 11 gets volley or whirlwind attack. Rogue gets increase in sneak attack damage.

[SMac8988]

I think he was looking for the long range sniper, but still wanted to be effective up close. I suggested possibly sacrificing the Archer fighting style, for two weapon. That way if he got locked in close he could still knock out damage; between dex bonus and Hunters Mark.

I think 5 in ranger is a good choice first, getting that second attack asap. Then start levers in rouge.

Mobility seems like a good feat, plus hide in plain sight from the halfling and using cunning action to rehide between attacks. Sneak attack at range every attack, then half the wolf near by if it goes into a melee fight?

[djreynolds]

Giant owls fly by is nice for advantage and sharpshooter

[SMac8988]

Maybe. Idk if I would allow for flight so really on, and they are spending a lot of time in the underdark, so may not be the best plan.

[coredump]

If he wants ranged sniper, let him switch to Hunter. If he wants Merle, then he stay beast aster.

[SMac8988]

Hmmm maybe, could be a better choice.

Would halfling be better or should I let him switch to feral tiefling?

[Mors]

If you let him switch races for a more traditional Hunter ranger, the aarakocra are the top choice, while great choices are also the scag tiefling (feral winged) and half-elf (drow descent) variants, as well as the variant human. The wood elf also gets a honorable mention.

In addition, if you intend to spend time in the Underdark, show him the UA Deep Stalker archetype. It ios very flavorful and not stronger than the Hunter, and is the archetype to take if you wish to progress ranger more than a 3 lvl dip because of the uniques spells and abilities it gets (for a 3 lvl dip it is debatable if Hunter or Deep Stalker is better).

https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/02_UA_Underdark_Characters.pdf

[SMac8988]

Oh that is really cool looking. The ability to rehide is awesome, like it was meant to mix with rouge

[bid]

I think he was looking for the long range sniper, but still wanted to be effective up close. I suggested possibly sacrificing the Archer fighting style, for two weapon. That way if he got locked in close he could still knock out damage; between dex bonus and Hunters Mark.
Archery is mandatory for SS. The TWF style only adds his Dex mod to offhand attacks. Getting crossbow expert is a much nicer way to solve the melee range.

I wouldn't MC before getting extra attack, except for RP reasons. I don't think the class matters much, nor does the hunter/beast choice. If you are the DM, you can certainly play his strength no matter which he picks.

[djreynolds]

Owls get fly by attack and dark vision. Same as using your owl familiar, to "help" and get advantage on attacks. Wolves are good companions, but if they knock someone prone and you are shooting from distance you are now at disadvantage with a ranged weapon.

Halfling ranger/rogue is just fine. Even in melee. But I would take beastmaster to at least 7th level so your pet can use the help action and give you advantage on your rolls to hit and get sneak attacks just because he is within 5ft of you. But your pet will die a lot.

He could just take magic initiate and grab find familiar, get an owl and just have it perform flyby and just go rogue.

[SMac8988]

How does the mounted combat feat work for ranged attacks? Curiosity sakes. Cause riding a wolf around firing sneak attack arrows would be kinda awesome.

[Mors]

How does the mounted combat feat work for ranged attacks? Curiosity sakes. Cause riding a wolf around firing sneak attack arrows would be kinda awesome.

It works as you expect. Probably the best choice for a beastmaster ranger, since you protect your animal from melee attacks and you do not care so much for giving order to your animal to attack.

The panther is a bit better from the PHB options. The pteranodon should be the beast companion of choice for an archer, and you should give it to your player as soon as you find the ability to fly appropriate for your campaign. Giant Poisonous Snake and Giant Wolf Spider are also good choices for mounts and probably a bit better than panther in most circumstances. They do are a bit exotic for carrying around cities though.

[SMac8988]

Awesome. Does it give advantage still as well?

[Mors]

Awesome. Does it give advantage still as well?

Only if you take Mounted Combantant and only for melee attacks. The main benefit of an archer with such a mount is his tremendous mobility and skirmishing potential.

[SMac8988]

Only if you take Mounted Combantant and only for melee attacks. The main benefit of an archer with such a mount is his tremendous mobility and skirmishing potential.

Oh I thought it was all attacks made. Is it mount size and smaller or just anything smaller than your mount. Cause if so being a halfling duel wielding rapiers could be really cool on wolf back. But if it is only smaller than I could rarely see running into many mobs smaller than medium.

Also would it be rediculus to allow his wolf to eventually become a dire wolf? Or some how get it up to large size?

[Mors]

Oh I thought it was all attacks made. Is it mount size and smaller or just anything smaller than your mount. Cause if so being a halfling duel wielding rapiers could be really cool on wolf back. But if it is only smaller than I could rarely see running into many mobs smaller than medium.

Also would it be rediculus to allow his wolf to eventually become a dire wolf? Or some how get it up to large size?

Advantage against anything smaller than your mount. This is why it is not worth it to go melee when you can deal as much damage from range without risking your mount or yourself.

If you decide to ignore the CR listed (fine by me) and get a CR2 creature, Dire Wolf is a great choice for a mount. For a melee ranger a brown bear is also an excellent mount. Same CR but more damage. The less AC will not matter much if you use the Mounted Combatant feature.

[Citan]

One of my players recently came to me asking for assistance in his build. They had all recently hit level 3 and he went into beast master ranger; picking up a wolf as his pet.

After playing this for a couple sessions and seeing they are close to a level he has asked about multi classing into a rogue for sneak attack sniping with his bow, or using the wolf, as his bonus action, to either flank or knock prone to get melee sneak attack.

I feel it's a simple enough idea, but he was asking what a good level spread, feats, when to switch and stuff I didn't know. So I figured I would bring it to the giants and see what all you can come up with.

Currently he is a halfling, but due to him finding the feral tiefling online I told him he could possibly change, newer player i'm trying to give him some flexibility. I gave them all one feat at level one, he took sharp shooter. And rolled ok stats, I think 16 in Dex, 12 str. 14 wis. Rest was close to 10.

Thank you all so much in advance!!!!!
Hi! :)

First of all, no worries about synergizing, Rogue/Ranger is a natural!

For archetypes, I'd say Arcane Trickster is the best. You get some utility that doesn't rely on INT so no problem here.
Assassin is nice but hard to enable. Swashbuckler can be a nice option for the free disengage but it's the only benefit (since low CHA) so not the best choice. Mastermind is nice but not in line with your concept it seems. Thief though can be a good another option, if you are familiar enough with items (using items as a bonus action can be great and you get a bit of extra mobility to get to higher standpoint and snipe away).

As to how much and when to dip...
Technically he could dip two levels right now to get Cunning Action, but it would make much competition for the bonus action (Hunter's Mark and it would still be "all or nothing" for its single attack.

So it would probably be better that he goes Ranger up to level 5: he gets Extra Attack which means consistent damage upgrade and, later, additional chance to land Sneak Attack.
And level 4 which he can spend on +2 DEX (safe&efficient choice with many benefits) or take the Mobile feat (good for mobility, but means he would be even more reliant on getting advantage to hit).

TL;DR: my advice
Ranger 3 > Ranger 5 (ASI=+2DEX, Extra Attack).
> Rogue 3 (Arcane Trickster with Minor Illusion and Booming Blade, Shield and any other among Find Familiar, Magic Missiles, Jump -doesn't remember which are allowed- OR Thief)
Then either continue Ranger if you like the "tracker" abilities (many underestimate the utility of Favored Enemy and Terrain, but it indeed does require smartness on player part and a bit of bias on DM part to be satisfying).
Also, level 7 feature means your beast gets more mobility: especially if you plan on mount it, it's mandatory (it's like Cunning Action, but on your beast). As well as survivability: Dodge as a bonus action means that you can keep your beast close to an enemy while avoiding it to take too much damage.

Or just up continue Rogue (I would still get Ranger 6 and Ranger 7 somewhere along the way though).

[SMac8988]

We discussed ranger 7, rouge 13. Only loses one stat bump, and gets all the goodies. Idk which rouge to suggest. Trickster seems different, but ill have to look more.

[Mors]

Trickster is the way to go if the lvls go mainly on Rogue. For a 3 lvl dip, Assasin is the optimal choice IMO.

For a ranger 7 / rogue 13 the trickster is better. I also like the progression of Ranger 7 / Rogue Trickster (for cunning action) 2 / Fighter 2 (for action surge mainly) / Rogue 11. The 2 first fighter lvls are actually more useful than the 2 rogue ones, so thay can be taken first.

All of these assuming that you will play for a considerate time at high lvls. Otherwise, for a 12 lvl build, Ranger 7 / Rogue Assasin 3 / Fighter 2 is better.

[SMac8988]

How does spell slot and spell level balance out with trickster and ranger? Like what is the highest spell level they get access too?

[Mors]

How does spell slot and spell level balance out with trickster and ranger? Like what is the highest spell level they get access too?

At what character lvl?

At 20th lvl, a ranger 7 / fighter 2 / rogue 11 is considered to be a 6th lvl caster. He has 4 lvl 1 slots, 3 lvl 2 slots and 3 lvl 3 slots. He has access to second lvl spells.

IMO, it is a bit underwhelming, since you cannot abuse GFB / BB without 7lvls of EK fighter, and of course that is if you melee. That being said, at 12 lvls it looks much better with ranger 7 / rogue assasin 3 / fighter 2. And if he goes ranged and reaches high lvls, the volley + action surge is a great anti-horde combo.

[djreynolds]

Well archers are usually the easiest to roll up. Wood elf will give you 17 in dex, but my only fear for you is when are you going to get sharpshooter. You could get it early, you get archery style and the cleric can bless you might cover you.

That's why its tough to say I will go 7 levels of ranger, when 1 more level may allow you to max out dex.

If allowed, the UA scout archetype is pretty sweet and by level 8 has 3ASI/feats. Max dex and sharpshooter and then you can add in ranger or rogue.

[Citan]

Trickster is the way to go if the lvls go mainly on Rogue. For a 3 lvl dip, Assasin is the optimal choice IMO.

For a ranger 7 / rogue 13 the trickster is better. I also like the progression of Ranger 7 / Rogue Trickster (for cunning action) 2 / Fighter 2 (for action surge mainly) / Rogue 11. The 2 first fighter lvls are actually more useful than the 2 rogue ones, so thay can be taken first.

All of these assuming that you will play for a considerate time at high lvls. Otherwise, for a 12 lvl build, Ranger 7 / Rogue Assasin 3 / Fighter 2 is better.
I disagree on the benefit of two level dipping in Fighter, especially considering the spell slots aspects as per the following question

How does spell slot and spell level balance out with trickster and ranger? Like what is the highest spell level they get access too?
Two levels in Fighter brings a Fighting Style and Action Surge.
While a one-level CAN be good depending on several factors (is the UA content allowed? Do the character plan on learning Crossbow Expert?) to stack Close Quarter Shooters with Archery. Otherwise it's a clear loss.
At Ranger 7 / Rogue 3, the next level will bring an ASI which means better stat or useful feat.

As for Action Surge, it means one additional action per short rest. Meaning you can make one Extra Attack or cast one extra spell in a nova. Is this useful? Sure.
Is this worth losing extra ASI and useful feature? Don't think so.
Rogue 5 brings Uncanny Dodge which is a great use of your reaction to increase survivability, all day long.

Also, these two levels means delaying access to "not so far" useful features such as lvl 6 Expertise and lvl 7 Evasion for Rogue, and net loss of spell slots

So your build is the best only with the Assassin archetype, meaning only if the player plans on doing every necessary effort to enable surprise attacks as often as possible. It's not for every campaign (depends on the campaign itself and a bit on the DM), not for every character concept and not for every player. :)

In all other cases, imo Beastmaster Ranger 7 / Trickster Rogue 5 (or 8 / 4 if in dire need for ASI) is overall much better (and if you up Rogue more, you get disadvantage against your spells at character level 16 which is correct).

@OP: As for spell levels, you'll end as a bit worth than a half-caster. That's one of the reason going for Ranger 8 / Rogue 12 could be better if you like spellcasting, you gain 2 "spellcasting levels" in addition to ASI compared to 7/13.
AND, Considering you will already have your beast to gain advantage, you won't even need Trickster's 13th ability (distract with Mage Hand as bonus action - which should be available to any caster imo but it's another topic).
However, you lose access to Wizards's 3rd level spells, and that is potentially a huge loss. So... Both ways are good, you can just decide on the fly when the needs arise. :)

[djreynolds]

I disagree on the benefit of two level dipping in Fighter, especially considering the spell slots aspects as per the following question

Two levels in Fighter brings a Fighting Style and Action Surge.
While a one-level CAN be good depending on several factors (is the UA content allowed? Do the character plan on learning Crossbow Expert?) to stack Close Quarter Shooters with Archery. Otherwise it's a clear loss.
At Ranger 7 / Rogue 3, the next level will bring an ASI which means better stat or useful feat.

As for Action Surge, it means one additional action per short rest. Meaning you can make one Extra Attack or cast one extra spell in a nova. Is this useful? Sure.
Is this worth losing extra ASI and useful feature? Don't think so.
Rogue 5 brings Uncanny Dodge which is a great use of your reaction to increase survivability, all day long.

Also, these two levels means delaying access to "not so far" useful features such as lvl 6 Expertise and lvl 7 Evasion for Rogue, and net loss of spell slots

So your build is the best only with the Assassin archetype, meaning only if the player plans on doing every necessary effort to enable surprise attacks as often as possible. It's not for every campaign (depends on the campaign itself and a bit on the DM), not for every character concept and not for every player. :)

In all other cases, imo Beastmaster Ranger 7 / Trickster Rogue 5 (or 8 / 4 if in dire need for ASI) is overall much better (and if you up Rogue more, you get disadvantage against your spells at character level 16 which is correct).

@OP: As for spell levels, you'll end as a bit worth than a half-caster. That's one of the reason going for Ranger 8 / Rogue 12 could be better if you like spellcasting, you gain 2 "spellcasting levels" in addition to ASI compared to 7/13.
AND, Considering you will already have your beast to gain advantage, you won't even need Trickster's 13th ability (distract with Mage Hand as bonus action - which should be available to any caster imo but it's another topic).
However, you lose access to Wizards's 3rd level spells, and that is potentially a huge loss. So... Both ways are good, you can just decide on the fly when the needs arise. :)

This good stuff, those asi/feats are really important. You know I think some guys may roll well and maybe already have a 20 in dex. But for those like me, in the AL with the 27 point buy in, Mr Citan is right and you must get to 4th level in ranger or rogue ASAP to get +2 in dex or sharpshooter. I think hunter's mark will cover a lot of damage, as will horde breaker and colossus slayer.

And don't mind me I'm just enamored with the scout archetype, because we can't play it. If skills are really important to you, maybe grab rogue 1, than ranger to 5th and then rogue to 4th. You'll have 2 ASI and good skills and 2d6 for sneak attack. And Arcane Trickster is nice cause invisibility is a nice addition to stealthing

[adb82]

I found this post very interesting, I'm actually try to build a ranger/rogue. I'm lv 4 with 4 levels of ranger, i though to get till lv 5 ranger for the second attack and than go straight rogue till the end. I don't understand why get till lv 7 ranger? I may be wrong but I think that the first couple lv of rogue give me more than lv 6 and 7 ranger...well cunning action ill use a bit less bcs using crossbow expert I'll keep my bonus action often busy, but it's anyway great, expertise and some skill more, +1d6 damage easly once per turn and faster progression to evasion and other roguish things really nice. What I'm missing?

My stat are by dices throw:

Str 11
Dex 18
Cos 12
Int 11
Wis 16
Cha 16

Human variant (+2 dex, +1 wis, +1cha).
At lv 4 I got crossbow expert as feat.

Btw I don't understand really well if for use spells from arcane trickster spell slots I can cast rangers spells, or I have to use INT and only from wizard spells...in that case I'll consider to put 16 in INT and not in CHA as the campaign is still not start.

[Keravath]

I think he was looking for the long range sniper, but still wanted to be effective up close. I suggested possibly sacrificing the Archer fighting style, for two weapon. That way if he got locked in close he could still knock out damage; between dex bonus and Hunters Mark.

I think 5 in ranger is a good choice first, getting that second attack asap. Then start levers in rouge.

Mobility seems like a good feat, plus hide in plain sight from the halfling and using cunning action to rehide between attacks. Sneak attack at range every attack, then half the wolf near by if it goes into a melee fight?

I would never sacrifice the archery fighting style - especially on a character with the sharpshooter feat - there is NO fighting style that would be better for this character even if they end up in melee. In addition, if they take the Xbow expert feat later, they can use their hand crossbow in melee with no penalties and take a bonus action hand crossbow shot in addition to their extra attack at ranger 5 for 3 attacks/round possibly with sharpshooter bonuses ... do not encourage a new player to skip archery fighting style if they want to play an archer. It isn't worth it.

They can still be effective in melee with weapon+shield + extra attack and all the two weapon fighting style does is add +stat damage to the bonus action attack IF you take it and you aren't moving hunter's mark or dash/disengage/hide ... forget the two weapon fighting style on a character that is primarily a ranged ranger/rogue.

[bid]

Btw I don't understand really well if for use spells from arcane trickster spell slots I can cast rangers spells, or I have to use INT and only from wizard spells...in that case I'll consider to put 16 in INT and not in CHA as the campaign is still not start.
You'll have to use Int for spells known from AT and Wis for those known from ranger.

You understand that for learning AT spells you only consider your AT levels, as if your ranger levels didn't exist, right?
As for casting spells, your spell slots are merged as explained in the MC section.

[KorvinStarmast]

My nephew went Rogue 1, Ranger 3(Hunter), Rogue X (Scout) and it worked out nicely. He traded the PC in after a few adventures at level 8 (Rogue Scout 5 Ranger Hunter 3)

[adb82]

You'll have to use Int for spells known from AT and Wis for those known from ranger.

You understand that for learning AT spells you only consider your AT levels, as if your ranger levels didn't exist, right?
As for casting spells, your spell slots are merged as explained in the MC section.

Ok I got it now...so do you think better put that 16 in INT than cha? Or mostly I'm gonna just use spells that don't need hight int and so better keep cha for better saving throw on a stat that have nasty abilities against.

And about the progression in ranger i think I'll stay ranger till lv 5, than all rogue, at 9 lv character is it better to get sharpshooter as will be easy to get advantage, or the 20 in dex is more worth? Or still better go with sharpshooter first bcs with +9 (I have a magic crossbow +1) and not too difficult advantage I can use it kinda often and than Put crossbow expert at lv9 for more chance to sneak attack when the sneak attack start to mean a lot more?

Tnx for reply.

Ps I have archery fighting style already.

[truemane]

Metamagic Mod: Thread Necromancy doesn't multi-class with anything.