1-minute rituals - would this break anything?

[Segev]

We've had a thread on making rituals harder to do, or take longer to cast, but I actually think even the 10-minute casting time is...irritating...for how it forces things to a halt while the caster performs the ritual.

Would it break anything to reduce ritual casting time to +1 minute, rather than +10 minutes? +1 minute makes it not quite so obnoxiously long for everybody to wait on the wizard casting identify or comprehend languages while still preventing it from being a casual thing to keep such spells up all day long or from abusing rituals in combat. I think.

But am I missing a reason why 1 minute would actually be too generous?

[Demonic Spoon]

The difference between 1 minute and 10 minutes isn't big in combat (both mean you can't do it basically), but it could be a big different out of combat.

If the party is pressed for time, then being able to cast a ritual in 1 minute can be a notable power boost.

If the party is not pressed for time, then it doesn't matter and I don't see why this is an issue.


Ritual spells can always be cast using a slot if it's that big a deal.

[Segev]

I have mostly noticed that it's an issue on an RP level, as other PCs have to find something to do for those 10 minutes, and it leads to a rogue's dilemma sort of OOC problem: either the PCs who aren't ritual-casting stand around and do nothing for 10 minutes (which isn't very realistic, and would be hideously boring if they were real people really doing that), or they go do something interesting while the PC casting the ritual doesn't get to participate.

[Douche]

I just wish rituals were more ritualistic. Where's the goat sacrifice?!? Where's the burning of a yew branch on a full moon while the wind is howling?

I'd like some stuff like that, ya know?


I have mostly noticed that it's an issue on an RP level, as other PCs have to find something to do for those 10 minutes, and it leads to a rogue's dilemma sort of OOC problem: either the PCs who aren't ritual-casting stand around and do nothing for 10 minutes (which isn't very realistic, and would be hideously boring if they were real people really doing that), or they go do something interesting while the PC casting the ritual doesn't get to participate.

FYI, you don't actually need to wait for 10 minutes IRL to cast a ritual :smalltongue:

[JeenLeen]

The only time I can see it really mattering would be if you are not in combat but still in a time-sensitive location. In the 5e game I'm in, we did a dungeon crawl where we holed up after clearing a couple rooms. It was near dawn, so if we took too long, guards would start waking up instead of us killing them in their sleep.

Waiting for 1 minute could make a big difference compared to waiting for 10 minutes in cases like this. Whether that makes it too powerful is up for debate, but it would have mattered (well, could have mattered. None of us had ritual spells prepared nor was there a reason to use them. I guess Detect Magic would have saved us a bit of a headache a couple times.)

If players are going to roleplay their PCs being annoyed at waiting 10 minutes, I reckon they would react similar to 1 minute. It just sounds like bad playstyle not to be willing to wait (even if it makes sense in-character... unless the wizard is just being annoying and overly-paranoid, like trying to keep Detect Magic active through an entire dungeoncrawl. Seems nicer to design character personalities willing to wait for the benefit of a ritual spell.)

[Grod_The_Giant]

Probably not. Out of combat there's not really that much difference between one minute and ten minutes. Apart from spamming some things (Find Familiar to trigger traps? I don't know many rituals off-hand) I doubt there's much harm.

[pwykersotz]

Whether it breaks anything seems to be entirely DM dependent. Like with short/long rest durations.

[Segev]

FYI, you don't actually need to wait for 10 minutes IRL to cast a ritual :smalltongue:I'm aware. But the PCs IC still get bored.

Part of it is that the DM actually asks people what they're doing for the 10 minutes while the ritualist works. So people try to come up with things. This causes a drawing out of the IRL time the ritual takes, because people now feel the need to play out whatever it is they're doing.


Probably not. Out of combat there's not really that much difference between one minute and ten minutes. Apart from spamming some things (Find Familiar to trigger traps? I don't know many rituals off-hand) I doubt there's much harm.
Find Familiar has a native casting time of 1 hour; even if you cast it from a first level spell slot, it takes almost as long as doing it as a ritual.


Thanks for the analysis, everyone! I think I will ask my DM about it and see what he says.

[Temperjoke]

I think it's intending to be a limiting factor, to keep people from relying on rituals instead of using up spell slots. Admittedly, I personally don't think it'd be too game-breaking, but it could help keep a fighter with ritual caster from outshining the magic-user.

[Demonic Spoon]

I'm aware. But the PCs IC still get bored.

Part of it is that the DM actually asks people what they're doing for the 10 minutes while the ritualist works. So people try to come up with things. This causes a drawing out of the IRL time the ritual takes, because people now feel the need to play out whatever it is they're doing.

I mean, adventuring is pretty boring work. Any time the party needs to travel to a far-off locale they spend entire days just walking.

The solution to your problem is just to accept the fact that the characters are going to be bored, or have some kind of default action that they do. Maybe they play cards, eat a snack, or make small talk - it doesn't actually matter much.

[PotatoGolem]

On the topic of boredom- unless the wizard is casting rituals that do nothing but keep him comfortable, there's no IC reason for the other characters to object. This isn't a game for the characters- losing HP is painful, and death is a real and serious possibility. If waiting 10 minutes for a ritual is going to stop you from getting stabbed or shot with an arrow or ambushed, no sane adventurer is going to turn it down.

[lebefrei]

10 minutes should remain. Take my advice with a pinch of salt, I run in Gritty Realism. But I'll give you my reasoning.

The game should have a sense of tension. 10 minutes on rituals (and prayer of healing) makes them risky to cast. It is very hard to keep an door barred for ten minutes. One, not so much. Like others said, unless your DM makes you wait 10 real minutes, the difference is only though tense combat keeping them safe, which should be fun, or nothing which passes instantly either way.

One spell does break if you change ritual times, and that is Leomund's Tiny Hut. To cast it for 1 minute, you must use up a third level spell slot. To not do that, you must use 10 minutes on the ritual. Turning this into a 1 minute ritual removes its urgency cost and gives an invincible long rest bubble (as long as enemies can't dispel it) with a pretty quick cast time. That's broken. It's a bad idea.

[Serket]

There are DMs who act like "in combat" and "out of combat" are different worlds, with the former having massive time pressure and the latter having none. For them, it won't make any difference at all.

There are DMs who keep track of time quite closely, at least some of the time. For them it's relevant.

However, the "problem" if there is one is entirely player-created. If the players just agree that their characters are doing nothing while the identify rituals go off, then you just fast forward to the results.

[HoarsHalberd]

I'm aware. But the PCs IC still get bored.

Part of it is that the DM actually asks people what they're doing for the 10 minutes while the ritualist works. So people try to come up with things. This causes a drawing out of the IRL time the ritual takes, because people now feel the need to play out whatever it is they're doing..

I mean unless your PCs have some form of attention deficit disorder, waiting patiently for 10 minutes in silence is nothing. It's practically an essential skill in the modern world even with modern technology. And that's assuming the ritual has to be done in silence. Inane small talk, sharpening blades, running through scenarios and of course, studying every detail within sight are all things that can be hand waved away as happening.

[Vogonjeltz]

We've had a thread on making rituals harder to do, or take longer to cast, but I actually think even the 10-minute casting time is...irritating...for how it forces things to a halt while the caster performs the ritual.

Would it break anything to reduce ritual casting time to +1 minute, rather than +10 minutes? +1 minute makes it not quite so obnoxiously long for everybody to wait on the wizard casting identify or comprehend languages while still preventing it from being a casual thing to keep such spells up all day long or from abusing rituals in combat. I think.

But am I missing a reason why 1 minute would actually be too generous?

1 minute is incredibly quick for saving a spell slot that would take 8 hours of rest once every 24 hours to replenish.

[joaber]

I really don't think "PC will be bored to wait 10 minutes" is a good excuse to change the casting time. They will be bored in 1 minute too. You don't need to roleplay that, or roleplay a bored PC, or make the PC don't wait and cause intrigue in the party. This in fact can help against ritual spammers and will spice things up.

[JoeJ]

Just one instance of a PC making an important discovery with an Investigation check during those 10 minutes will probably be enough to get everybody involved in trying to find ways to use that time productively, forever.

[Talamare]

Rituals technically don't even require anything

You can be dancing and juggling while doing them

So... yea, go ahead and reduce it
Oh and rule that casting Alarm as a Ritual does not count as casting it as a spell. That is literally the only abuse.

[RickAllison]

My solution? Someone pay the 5 sp to get a playing card set and do so in real life too. If the DM makes you RP what you're doing, break out the cards and play a game of poker while wagering coppers. Passes the time and only makes it boring for the ritual caster and the DM.