Can use advice on a tank-mage

[Steelwraith]

I've decided to build a classic tank-mage, starting with 8 levels of warmage then switching to eldritch knight. Problem is, I'm not sure what feats to take.

Race: Human
STR: 15, DEX: 13, CON: 14, INT: 15, WIS: 10, CHA: 17 (18 with level bonus)
Starting level: 6 Warmage

Note that this is as much for color as it is for effectiveness, most of our party are knight-variants so we've pretty much become a military unit (I'm the artillery).

Militia feat is mandatory so I don't have to take a level in fighter... that way I only lose one caster level.

I had considered a double wand wield build, decided against it... my BAB is already going to be lower than a fighter, no point adding in penalties for TWF. I might as well stay a warmage in this case.

Battlecaster is out, I'd rather spend the gold and have mithril plate made. Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot (for orbs) are probably not needed, the increased BAB from eldritch knight should make up for them.

Able Learner, Improved Initiative, Combat Casting, Somatic Weaponry, Sculpt Spell, Extraordinary Spell Aim and Steady Concentration are some I'm looking at, but I can use some help in deciding which are best, and if I missed any other good ones. :)

[Iku Rex]

What do you mean by "tank"?
Books available?

[Steelwraith]

Tank=armored... or in this case, mage with melee skills, though I won't bother with melee feats until after the switch to eldritch knight.

As for books, any and all... our DM just can't say no to WoTC...

[sleeping fishy]

why would you use warmage for eldritch knight?? the point of EK type builds is so the mage can fight in melee, and do damage that way, with buffs... warmage can already do damage, and has NO buffs!! warmage is totally terrible for that... try wizard or sorcerer... warmage is crap in melee, dont let the armor fool you...

[Zincorium]

why would you use warmage for eldritch knight?? the point of EK type builds is so the mage can fight in melee, and do damage that way, with buffs... warmage can already do damage, and has NO buffs!! warmage is totally terrible for that... try wizard or sorcerer... warmage is crap in melee, dont let the armor fool you...

Um, the entire point of eldritch knight is high base attack bonus. To review, what is base attack bonus useful for? Oh yeah, hitting stuff with attack rolls, melee or not. In fact, nothing about eldritch knight makes it any good for melee, for that you'd want abjurant champion, which a warmage can't take at all without eclectic learning.

That includes ranged touch attack rolls, something a warmage has more than enough of to make it worthwhile. If you aren't enamored of the sudden metamagics, it's a decent trade.

As far as feats, I'd go for stuff that helps with ranged attacks, point blank shot, precise shot, anything that will work on rays.

Edit: And for armor...Battle caster. Seriously. Get you some mithril plate armor, and you're more than good to go.

[Tengu]

Persuade your DM to allow you to be a Phantom Knight (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4), and start as a Wizard 5/PK 1. You can cast spells in light armor (medium armor with a correct feat), and your casting does not suck.

[Steelwraith]

Um, the entire point of eldritch knight is high base attack bonus. To review, what is base attack bonus useful for? Oh yeah, hitting stuff with attack rolls, melee or not. In fact, nothing about eldritch knight makes it any good for melee, for that you'd want abjurant champion, which a warmage can't take at all without eclectic learning.

That includes ranged touch attack rolls, something a warmage has more than enough of to make it worthwhile. If you aren't enamored of the sudden metamagics, it's a decent trade.

As far as feats, I'd go for stuff that helps with ranged attacks, point blank shot, precise shot, anything that will work on rays.

Edit: And for armor...Battle caster. Seriously. Get you some mithril plate armor, and you're more than good to go.

Hmm, haven't heard of the abjurant champion, gonna look into it.

For the record, my warmage already exists... I've been using him for the last three sessions and he's fun to play, and a huge addition to the party (which has no ranged attacks to speak of... most are knights). The party also includes an illusionist for those utility spells, so I'm free to blast away 'til my heart is content. So no more complaints about the class, ok?

Also, I was under the impression mithril plate armor is considered medium, is that wrong? If not, then there is no need to take Battle Caster since the warmage can use it at level 8.

[Isomenes]

Duskblade (PHBII) as a base class has full attack progression, proficiency in all martial weapons, and 0% ASF with medium armor by 4th level. The spells don't suck outright--in fact, there are some very workable buffs. The channeling might not be your thing, but you can tailor a Duskblade to more than one flavor based on your spell selection. Something to consider.

[Iku Rex]

Four levels of Raumathari Battlemage (UnappEast) is a good fit for you I think. It requires Combat Casting and EWP: Bastard Sword, but the first four levels gets you full spell progression and you get some nice sword-related abilities.

Power Attack and Arcane Strike (CWar) could let you make the occasional high-damage blow in melee.

Smiting Spell (PHBII, +1 level) lets you put a touch spell in your weapon for one minute.

Improved Toughness (CWar) is a safe, solid feat for a low-HP melee combatant.

Improved Buckler Defense (CWar) can be useful for extra AC if you use a two-handed weapon.

Items: Spell Storing (+1) and Stunning Surge (MIC, +1) are both good weapon enhancements for a warmage IMO.

A Heartseeking Amulet (MIC, 3000 gp) gets you three touch attack strikes per day for some extra Power Attack boosted damage.

An Iron Ward crystal (MIC) gives you much needed DR, bolstering your hit points.

If the DM allows it a Valorous (+1, UnappEast, 2x damage on charge) weapon combined with the Leap Attack (CAdv) feat, the Heartseeking Amulet and Arcane Strike/channeled spell could let you make some brutal charges.

Other than that I'd consider Empower Spell to improve fire shield. Your AC and hit points aren't going to be that great, so if you want to be in the thick of battle you need a convincing "don't hit me" defense.

[skywalker]

Iku, I doubt he wants to spend a feat on EWP.

Wraith, do warmages get medium armor proficiency? Because my source claims they do not. If they do not, then armored mage negates the spell failure, but all your touch attack spells are at a -4 for non-proficiency. I might be wrong but you need to check on that.

What feats do you already have, if you've been playing him/her already?

[Iku Rex]

At least the EWP is useful. Combat Casting is the real dud, as it quickly becomes obsolete. But they're prerequisites and I think he does want the sword focus, channel spell and battle spell abilities from the class.

Warmages get Medium armor proficiency at level 8, same level they get Armored Mage (Medium).

[ZeroNumerous]

If they do not, then armored mage negates the spell failure, but all your touch attack spells are at a -4 for non-proficiency. I might be wrong but you need to check on that.

No, you're thinking of being non-proficient with a weapon. Armor just adds the armor-check penalty to attack rolls. Further, if you use your ecletic learning variant from PHBII to learn Ectoplasmic Armor and Shield, you get much better mileage out of Abjurant Champion than you would out of normal armor.

[Dark_Wind]

My 2cp: Warmages don't need high BAB. All they need is Point Blank Shot and Precise shot, and they're good to go, really. If you really want to get crazy, then maybe Weapon Focus (Ray). But really, touch attacks aren't too hard to land, as long as you can avoid the issue of firing into melee. Your casting ain't great to begin with as a Warmage, why waste it by losing caster levels going into Eldritch Knight?


Oh, and a closing thought: Armor, or no, Warmages do not "tank". "Tanking" implies getting into melee and taking a lot of hits. D6 hit die and light/medium armor do not a tank make. Play a Rogue sometime if you doubt me.

[Steelwraith]

As I mentioned in my first post, this is for color more than anything... think of it as a knight theme (this is an rpg remember, not a tabletop wargame). I'm not out to min/max, our DM is quite experienced enough to tailor his encounters to our effectiveness, so unless I totally gimp myself I'm happy.

I chose the eldritch knight simply because I couldn't find anything else out there that fit the bill, but now that I've discovered the Abjurant Champion, I'm definitely going with it.

And for the record, I will NOT be wading into battle... I'm the artillery, and will remain so. I'm more interested in defense, since any intelligent critter will probably go after the guy that just nuked him and his friends. I want to stay alive enough for my party to finish them off, and have my weapon as a backup in case my spells are depleted or rendered useless.

I figure losing one caster level and a couple of metamagic feats is a fair price to pay for a good rp character. :)