Web Spell Save

[wiaa44]

When using the web spell is a save made only once or for each 5ft square of movement inside the area of effect?

[Kane0]

Once. It'd really slow down play to roll a save every 5'. Also that would mean you are working with a grid and minis, which is not assumed as the default.

[PallentisLunam]

In previous editions spells like Web and Entangle required a save every round but that's not the case anymore. It's one save when the spell is cast and that's it. If they save they are uneffected if they fail they may make a check each round to break free. Once they do they are free. The end. Kinda sucks really, but it does speed up play.

[Desamir]

When using the web spell is a save made only once or for each 5ft square of movement inside the area of effect?

Neither. No saves are made when the spell is cast. Creatures that start their turn in the area, or enter the area on their turn, have to roll a save or get caught. Moving from one part of the webbed region to another part doesn't trigger the save, but if the creature stays in the region, at the start of its next turn it'll have to save again.

The reply above mine is incorrect; Web does not work the same way as Entangle. Entangle triggers the save immediately, and once they break free, that's it. Web can catch creatures over and over again.

[PallentisLunam]

Neither. No saves are made when the spell is cast. Creatures that start their turn in the area, or enter the area on their turn, have to roll a save or get caught. Moving from one part of the webbed region to another part doesn't trigger the save, but if the creature stays in the region, at the start of its next turn it'll have to save again.

The reply above mine is incorrect; Web does not work the same way as Entangle. Entangle triggers the save immediately, and once they break free, that's it. Web can catch creatures over and over again.

If that's the case my bad. I'm AFB and was working from memory.

[rpinasco]

If that's the case my bad. I'm AFB and was working from memory.

What about when you attack someone restrained in a web with an arrow? does cover works here?

[R.Shackleford]

What about when you attack someone restrained in a web with an arrow? does cover works here?

I would say that any cover you do have doesn't really help you out as you are being restrained by the Web. So like advantage/disadvantage the two situations cancel each other out.

[Cybren]

I would say that any cover you do have doesn't really help you out as you are being restrained by the Web. So like advantage/disadvantage the two situations cancel each other out.

This is wrong. Cover has nothing to do with the targets mobility and only the presence of some obstacle.

If there's something blocking about half the creature, it has half cover. If it covers about three fourths, it has three fourths cover. That applies whether they're awake or asleep or playing a one man band rig or doing calculus.

[R.Shackleford]

This is wrong. Cover has nothing to do with the targets mobility and only the presence of some obstacle.

If there's something blocking about half the creature, it has half cover. If it covers about three fourths, it has three fourths cover. That applies whether they're awake or asleep or playing a one man band rig or doing calculus.

Cover has everything to do with mobility. There are three types of cover 1/2, 3/4, and full.

"Cover

Walls, trees, creatures, and other obstacles can provide cover during combat, making a target more difficult to harm. A target can benefit from cover only when an attack or other effect originates on the opposite side of the cover.

There are three degrees of cover. If a target is behind multiple sources of cover, only the most protective degree of cover applies; the degrees aren’t added together. For example, if a target is behind a creature that gives half cover and a tree trunk that gives three-quarters cover, the target has three-quarters cover.

A target with half cover has a +2 bonus to AC and Dexterity saving throws. A target has half cover if an obstacle blocks at least half of its body. The obstacle might be a low wall, a large piece of furniture, a narrow tree trunk, or a creature, whether that creature is an enemy or a friend.

A target with three-quarters cover has a +5 bonus to AC and Dexterity saving throws. A target has three-quarters cover if about three-quarters of it is covered by an obstacle. The obstacle might be a portcullis, an arrow slit, or a thick tree trunk.

A target with total cover can’t be targeted directly by an attack or a spell, although some spells can reach such a target by including it in an area of effect. A target has total cover if it is completely concealed by an obstacle."

-SRD

Now look at what cover gives you. +2 AC and Dex saves. Ignoring how this isn't consistent with the game for a moment, look at what AC and Dex saves are... They are all about mobility.

Due to being able to dip and duck behind some cover gives you these bonuses when you are attacked or roll a saving throw.

So look at the spell. You get covered in webs. Now normally if the webs weren't restraining I could see 1/2 cover at the most. However you aren't able to take advantage of said cover (especially if you fail your save).

You have to look at this from an in game perspective and not just a *omg rules* in order to be fair on any rulings.

Simple Answer: Yes there *might* be some cover but the creature in the Web can't use said cover effectively in combat.

[Cybren]

You are objectively reading the rules wrong. Cover gives you an AC and Dex Save bonus to model the chance that the attack hits the covering object and not your person. It does not use the advantage/disadvantage system because that doesn't allow multiple levels of gradation and would have weird (non)stacking issues with other rules.

You don't "use" cover. Cover exists or it does not. You could argue you could kneel or drop prone to make 3/4ths cover into total cover, sure, but that's not what you're saying.

I'd like to add that nothing you quoted mentions mobility or a requirement the target be conscious or aware it is uner attack.

[Kryx]

Agreed, Cover has no interaction with restrained.

Cover is about having the attack blocked in some way. It can stack with adv/disadvantage.

[R.Shackleford]

You are objectively reading the rules wrong. Cover gives you an AC and Dex Save bonus to model the chance that the attack hits the covering object and not your person. It does not use the advantage/disadvantage system because that doesn't allow multiple levels of gradation and would have weird (non)stacking issues with other rules.

You don't "use" cover. Cover exists or it does not. You could argue you could kneel or drop prone to make 3/4ths cover into total cover, sure, but that's not what you're saying.



First off you are ignoring the fact that Web doesn't give you cover. At all.

You are also ignoring a huge part of the game. When in battle you aren'the just standing still, moving, standing still, using an action, standing still, moving, standing still, end of turn.

"Movement and Position

In combat, characters and monsters are in constant motion, often using movement and position to gain the upper hand."

A character who is using 1/2 cover isn't just standing there like the cover is going to protect them. They would be moving, dipping, dodging and using said cover to grant them that cover. Even with 3/4 cover... If you just stood where an arrow slit was then you wouldn't be that hard to hit. You are constantly moving, dodging, and dipping around so that you are harder to hit.

So yes, you do "use cover" if you read the rules on movement and realize you aren't just standing still between turns and rounds.

It is simplified, sure, but that's part of the point for 5e.

However any benefit you *could* gain from Web cover is completely negated by being restrained.

"Restrained

A restrained creature’s speed becomes 0, and it can’t benefit from any bonus to its speed.
Attack rolls against the creature have advantage, and the creature’s attack rolls have disadvantage.
The creature has disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws."

See that 0 speed? You are no longer ducking, dipping, dodging, or able to use your environment to your advantage. Now you really are just in one spot. You may be able to struggle a bit, but not enough to benefit from cover (unless it is full cover).

So no, I'm not ignoring anything, I'm using the rules as put forth mechanically and by their fluff to come to the conclusion that any cover you *might* have (1/2 max) is completely negated by the restraining.

[Cybren]

Web doesn't give you cover, but it doesn't take cover you have away. You're quoting irrelevant sections of rules here to support your point, but all the information needed as to whether or not you have cover is in the cover rules.

If an object that covers at least half your body is between you and your ranged attacker (or between you and the point of origin of, say, a fireball), you have the half cover bonus to AC and Dex Saves

If an object that covers three fourths of your body is between you and your ranged attacker (or between you and the point of origin of, say, a fireball), you have the three quarters cover bonus to AC and Dex Saves.

Cover doesn't disappear because you have speed 0, because that is not what cover is modelling within the game world

[R.Shackleford]

Cover doesn't disappear because you have speed 0, because that is not what cover is modelling within the game world

When said thing that is giving you cover (which it isn't and at best 1/2 cover) is what is restraining you, then yes that cover disapears. Any benefit you have from not full cover is negated.

If I tie someone up, say covering 1/2 or 3/4 of their body in a cocoon of rope (restrained and probably prone), why would they be harder to hit? That makes... like 0 sense.

When making rulings you have to take into account how everything works together and how the game portrays itself in a role playing aspect. Anything less than full cover is of no use if you can't move in order to use it. The point of cover is that while you are moving (as you always are in combat) you are being defended by said cover.


Edit

Ignoring the game as a whole and just ruling on specific things without context is how we get "healing via drowning" in 3e. We don't need to go down that path.

[Cybren]

When said thing that is giving you cover (which it isn't and at best 1/2 cover) is what is restraining you, then yes that cover disapears. Any benefit you have from not full cover is negated.

If I tie someone up, say covering 1/2 or 3/4 of their body in a cocoon of rope (restrained and probably prone), why would they be harder to hit? That makes... like 0 sense.

When making rulings you have to take into account how everything works together and how the game portrays itself in a role playing aspect. Anything less than full cover is of no use if you can't move in order to use it. The point of cover is that while you are moving (as you always are in combat) you are being defended by said cover.

No one is talking about web granting the cover. They're talking about being restrained by web when behind some other kind of cover. It would be absurd to assume you need to explicitly state being tied up with ropes constitutes cover, because wearing clothes does not constitute cover, and that covers significantly more than 3/4ths of your body in many instances.

You don't need to be able to move in order to benefit from the 3/4ths cover provided by an arrow slit, or the half cover provide by a chest high wall. Because the cover mechanic isn't modelling you ability to move, the advantage/disadvantage system is.

[Fighting_Ferret]

I agreeing with Cybren on this one. Please re-read his posts and note he isn't saying ANYTHING about the web granting cover, but rather that the PC had cover before the web spell was cast.

[LaserFace]

Why would anyone think a web that is entangling a character grants the character cover? No, this is surely about having a rock between you and an archer and you're in a web; the rock exists regardless, and gives the archer a smaller target to aim at, so you still get a cover bonus.