Black Widow Poison

[SangoProduction]

I remember distinctly (perhaps because I made a forum post in one of my games a while ago, and just read said post) that there is some race of monster that gets Black Widow Poison with a bite attack, and I was going to make a build for it. I ultimately stopped because it was becoming annoying, but I want some questions answered.

1) Do you know of this race? I have a distinct feeling that it's some sort of spider-person, or shape shifter of some kind.

2) How do you optimize poisons?

3) How do you optimize a specific natural weapon, since it doesn't get innate bonus attacks from BAB?

[atemu1234]

Well, boosting Con and using Ability Focus would both increase the save DC...

[Rangô]

1) I'm afraid I'm not going to be very usefull here, but Tracnid (MoF, MM4?) comes to my mind as humanoid-spider being, with poisoned bite. Perhaps other options with LA could fit you as Drider and Dragloth drow-spider, which reminds me that you should take a look at Drows of Underdark, spider + venom = drow.

2) Ability Focus (+2 DC), from DoU you can take Venomus Strike (trade 1d6 sneak damage for +2 DC Fortitude poison) and if you could somehow apply Virulent weapon property (reduces secondary damage's time up to 5 rounds) to your bite. Also Virulent Poison (+2 DC) plus Deadly Poison (doubles sencondary damage) from Savage Species will be your better choice. So if you could put all of these together...

3) Weapon Focus (bite) and then go through the feat tree to improve it, but it doesn't seem to be a nice idea, I'll try something like Improved Grappel and inmobilize, then bite my prey without Dex mod. Magic way is pretty expensive if you don't use more natural attacks like Amulet of Mighty Fists, spells like Magic Fang would help you.

[Necroticplague]

I remember distinctly (perhaps because I made a forum post in one of my games a while ago, and just read said post) that there is some race of monster that gets Black Widow Poison with a bite attack, and I was going to make a build for it. I ultimately stopped because it was becoming annoying, but I want some questions answered.

1) Do you know of this race? I have a distinct feeling that it's some sort of spider-person, or shape shifter of some kind.

2) How do you optimize poisons?

3) How do you optimize a specific natural weapon, since it doesn't get innate bonus attacks from BAB?

1. Aranea (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Aranea) sound like they fit the bill. Giant, intelligent spider that can switch between their true form, a humanoid form, and a hybrid of the two.

2.Increase you're CON score, take Ability Focus. I think Savage Species or Drow of the Underdark should have some relevant feats or equipment.

3.Thayan Gladiator. Get's a sort of pseudo-iterative with a chosen natural weapon, and can upgrade it so it has the Speed property (allowing for yet another attack). Soul Eater would let you apply a negative-level rider (which has a useful side-effect of decreasing saves). The Improved Natural Weapon feat is an obvious pick. Rapidstrike isn't available (only works with paired natural weapons), but Necklace of Natural Attacks for weapon properties might be useful (metalline would probably be a good choice, since it's pretty freaking hard to get natural weapons to overcome DR), especially stacking with the properties Thayan Gladiator can give you.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Rapidstrike can boost up a paired natural weapon (like claws) very well, but the requirements are a pain.

[SangoProduction]

1. Aranea (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Aranea) sound like they fit the bill. Giant, intelligent spider that can switch between their true form, a humanoid form, and a hybrid of the two.

2.Increase you're CON score, take Ability Focus. I think Savage Species or Drow of the Underdark should have some relevant feats or equipment.

3.Thayan Gladiator. Get's a sort of pseudo-iterative with a chosen natural weapon, and can upgrade it so it has the Speed property (allowing for yet another attack). Soul Eater would let you apply a negative-level rider (which has a useful side-effect of decreasing saves). The Improved Natural Weapon feat is an obvious pick. Rapidstrike isn't available (only works with paired natural weapons), but Necklace of Natural Attacks for weapon properties might be useful (metalline would probably be a good choice, since it's pretty freaking hard to get natural weapons to overcome DR), especially stacking with the properties Thayan Gladiator can give you.

1) not quite what I'm looking for. I mean it works, but it's not the black widow venom. Perhaps it's actually a familiar....I think I've got a good idea for where to look. thanks.

3) Awesome. That would work I would believe.

[Keld Denar]

D&D doesn't differentiate between spiders. They are all Monstrous Spiders (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/monstrousSpider.htm), and in fact, there are fine or diminutive spiders other than as part of a swarm. There's no black widows, no brown recluse, no Sydney funnelwebs, etc. All spider poison deals Str damage, which is comparable to a nervous/paralytic poison (similar to a widow). Recluse's have necrotic poison, which I'd image would probably deal Con damage, if such a spider existed in D&D, which it doesn't.

[Inevitability]

Maybe you're thinking of the Hairy Spider, a Fine spider (with +0 LA, oddly enough) from Monsters of Faerun.

[DrMotives]

There's also the Red Widow, a Ravenloft monster (available as licensed 3rd party from Sword & Sorcery sourcebooks in 3.x). It's basically statted like a were-spider that instead of transmitting a curse/disease, is a female-only shapechanger that binds the father after fertilization and lays eggs in him. But the aranea someone else mentioned would work just as good, or use were-spider.

For your 2nd question, how do you optimize poisons, there are a bunch of poison-related feats in Serpent Kingdoms for things with natural poison attacks like Barbed Stinger, Spit Venom, Deadly Spittle, & Deadly Poison.
I like Deadly Spittle, that's the one that takes your venom and changes to a contact poison in a 15 cone area of effect.

And 3rdly, a natural weapon uses BAB, it just never gets iterative attacks. So only 1 bite per round, although a spider-person of any sort can use full attack with weapon and throw the bite in as an extra natural weapon at BAB -5. Not a terrible deal, really.

[Necroticplague]

Maybe you're thinking of the Hairy Spider, a Fine spider (with +0 LA, oddly enough) from Monsters of Faerun.

LA 0 and mindless, specifically. Which means they lack skills and feats.

[Inevitability]

LA 0 and mindless, specifically. Which means they lack skills and feats.

Mindlessness is easy to get past. Awaken Vermin, Fiendish, Pseudonatural, Entropic, Skitterhaunt+Sentry Ooze... If you can't find a way, you're not trying hard enough.

[Twurps]

I don't have much to offer on the race thing.

Optimizing poison, in addition to ability focus and venomous strike already mentioned:
-sickening strike (feat, DotU) lets you apply the sickened condition, lowering your target's fort save
-Terrifying strike (feat, DotU) lets you aplly the 'shaken' condition.
-Sudden ability focus (Feat, ToM) lets you apply +2 to the save DC of a special attack.
-Aleval school (feat, DotU) apply -2 to an opponents save, prereq's are bad though

Bonesplitting srike (maneuver, ToB), deals con damage, lowering your opponents fort save (And swordsage has nice sneaky abilties that go very well with most poison builds)
Bloodletting strike (maneuver, ToB) again: Con damage.

increase virulence (Spell, PHII) increase save DC of poison by 2

Useful weapon properties:
-virulent (DotU) secondary save after 5 rounds
-Assasination (Cityscape) ups the save DC
-wounding (??) con damage
-shadowstrike (MIC) 1/day extend reach and ignore dex to AC

[SangoProduction]

I don't have much to offer on the race thing.

Optimizing poison, in addition to ability focus and venomous strike already mentioned:
-sickening strike (feat, DotU) lets you apply the sickened condition, lowering your target's fort save
-Terrifying strike (feat, DotU) lets you aplly the 'shaken' condition.
-Sudden ability focus (Feat, ToM) lets you apply +2 to the save DC of a special attack.
-Aleval school (feat, DotU) apply -2 to an opponents save, prereq's are bad though

Bonesplitting srike (maneuver, ToB), deals con damage, lowering your opponents fort save (And swordsage has nice sneaky abilties that go very well with most poison builds)
Bloodletting strike (maneuver, ToB) again: Con damage.

increase virulence (Spell, PHII) increase save DC of poison by 2

Useful weapon properties:
-virulent (DotU) secondary save after 5 rounds
-Assasination (Cityscape) ups the save DC
-wounding (??) con damage
-shadowstrike (MIC) 1/day extend reach and ignore dex to AC

A nice set of things