Component pouch logic

[HoodedHero007]

How do component pouches work?
There are a very substantial amount of material components, yet the component pouch holds all of them, seriously, a drop of water? How does it stay in?

​WHAT ARE THE RULES?!

[Slipperychicken]

It works because no-one is willing to track all the individual components and their containers, many of which serve no purpose other than being decades-old puns.

[HoodedHero007]

So what?
Is it a portal to Limbo and the real purpose is disguised by a conceptual limitation?

[mer.c]

Maybe it's a very specific Bag of Holding.

[HoodedHero007]

Even that has limits

[JackPhoenix]

Component pouch doesn't hold ALL components...only those that don't have a listed price. Also, those that are obviously too large to fit. You need to use common sense for that.

The drop of water stays in a small vial stored in the pouch.

The rules are that the pouch costs 25 gp, weights 2 lb and can be used in the place of a material component required for a spell, as indicated in the Spellcasting chapter of PHB, unless it's a specific component with a listed price.

[Segev]

It's also probable that your component pouch contains components for the spells you have prepared that day. Note that it only keeps those without cost; thus, presumably, you have quantities in storage some where, and you fill it up with what you need. The 25 gp cost is probably just the cost to get your collection started.

[Joe the Rat]

It's a very elaborate Purse Waterdhavian Man Bag, subdivided into pockets and bands so you can organize a variety of random bits and pieces. It only takes a few seconds to find the right fetish or jar or something strange to whip out for casting.

Since components are not "consumed" unless specified, most of this is reusable. You have a bunch of sympathetic representations or talismans that express the nature of your spell, prepared for use. This is your bit of fluff, this is your grasshopper leg, this is the keys to your flying carpet, etc.

It would make sense that some of the items get used up (chalk for circles, sprinklings of powder, a cup of water(?!)), but the thought is that any individual casting isn't going to use it all up. You have a little jar or pouch of sand you can pull a pinch from, or a little terrarium of spiders for easy consumption. Some are ambiguous. For fireball... you could have a little dried poop-and-sulphur ball that you wave around, or a little jar of bat nuggets that you pull from.

This is why I prefer using a Focus. But it doesn't hurt to have spare components for your go-to spells in case of emergencies.

[Laereth]

How do component pouches work?
There are a very substantial amount of material components, yet the component pouch holds all of them, seriously, a drop of water? How does it stay in?

​WHAT ARE THE RULES?!

The rules are rather foggy, similarly to 3.X, as to how said component pouch holds all the components. The assumption is that you don't need to track them, unless said components have a price. In which case you have to acquire them and keep note that you still have them (since they are not in the pouch when you buy said pouch).

Some people to add realism, such as my play group, add a few houserules. Once upon a time we tracked EVERY components (i.e. I have enough bat guano for 10 fireballs). That proved tedious and we shifted to a more practical approach where we don't track them, but the wizard is expected to "replenish is stock" once in a while (which can be done my paying a small fee, say 5gp, or using herbalism or other skills to collect the ingredients in the wild).

[rtrnofdmax]

While the size and complexity of accessing the specific component is being discussed elsewhere, I think the component pouch serves a justification for requiring a free hand for handling Material Components.

As for the specific items, if you are preparing spells, or you know specific spells, then that probably reduces the number of items you need to have in your pouch. Especially the Wizard who has to practice the motions of his spells, would probably also practice the motions of grabbing the components he needs from the locations he needs.

[Inevitability]

There are three ways to handle material components.

The first is to completely remove all non-costly components, which makes casters slightly stronger and removes some pretty funny fluff from the game.

The second is to force people to gather and keep track of components, weakening casters (and making certain spells almost impossible to cast). I hope you can see why having to spend half an hour finding spell components each session is fun for no one.

The third is the way it's currently handled; characters are assumed to have necessary components with them. It sacrifices realism for simplicity.


The first rule is boring, the second unplayable. In my opinion, the current rules are fine.

[Gurifu]

Nobody I play with uses a component pouch any more. Why would you, when arcane foci are a thing? Components are what you use if you get stripped of your casting implements somehow.

[supergoji18]

That's why I prefer to use an Arcane Focus. It serves the same purpose without all the logic issues or rule ambiguity.

[Millstone85]

I plan to roleplay some of the pouch as pieces of clothing. Need a bit of fleece? The character has fingerless gloves made of that. This might help justify attempts at stealthy casting.

[some guy]

Nobody I play with uses a component pouch any more. Why would you, when arcane foci are a thing? Components are what you use if you get stripped of your casting implements somehow.

My bard uses a component pouch, because she's not a musical bard. I think arcane tricksters, eldritch knights and rangers have no choice but use a component pouch.

[RickAllison]

I like using component pouches as hidden back-ups for my foci. Yes, Mr. Guard, take my wand. Little do you know that I have everything I need in my sock!

[HoodedHero007]

All of these are fine and dandy, but don't account for the shear volume of everything

[RickAllison]

All of these are fine and dandy, but don't account for the shear volume of everything

A Wizard Did It?

[gullveig]

Once upon a time there was an rule that said "The Component Pouch contains infinite amount of all components that are under 1gp" and somewhere someone found a spell which cited in its material components "a living chicken" and also found that a chicken is 1sp.

Soon he realized that his component pouch had infinite chickens and that opened gateways to more infinite RAW cheese... Oh the ol' 3.x days...


About the OP question... That is why you should not dump Wisdom IRL.

[HoodedHero007]

About the OP question... That is why you should not dump Wisdom IRL.
I have 18s in both intelligence and​ wisdom!

[Slipperychicken]

Once upon a time there was an rule that said "The Component Pouch contains infinite amount of all components that are under 1gp" and somewhere someone found a spell which cited in its material components "a living chicken" and also found that a chicken is 1sp.

Not quite. The combo was as follows:
-A commoner-only joke flaw in dragon magazine, called "chicken infested". Whenever the affected character retrieves an item, he has a 50% chance to retrieve a chicken instead.
-Retrieving spell components is a free action. There is no explicit limit on how many free actions a character could take in a round, so it's generally considered to be unlimited (anyone going against the most strict RAW interpretation would be castigated harshly by forum-goers). One could also take Quick Draw to retrieve items as a free action.

So one would take his first level in commoner, pick this flaw, then very quickly retrieve items from a spell component pouch (or a bag of pebbles or something), thereby producing an unlimited number of chickens.

[ZenBear]

Focus occupies your hand. What this means is if your spell requires material and somatic components you are fine, but if it requires only somatic components, you need to drop your focus.

[JackPhoenix]

All of these are fine and dandy, but don't account for the shear volume of everything

Unlike 3.5, most components aren't consumed in the casting...so you can have one ball of gunpowder bat guano and sulphur and cast Fireball for the rest of your live. Components that are too large to fit into the pouch obviously aren't in the pouch (that's what the logic is for). You also don't need to haul EVERY component, only those you need...again, logic. So, in the end, it's not nearly as bad as you make it. The cost of replacing consumable components is likely part of the living expenses for wizard (it's trivial anyway, if they don't have listed cost)

The pouch serves to remove the need to have hundred (not true count) different material components listed in the equipment section (so you could buy them) and on your character sheet (so you don't have to track of all the bat poop you character have on himself).

And yes, you can hide/use some components on your person even outside the pouch... for example, I've had characters wearing the crystal prism (needed for either Detect Magic or Read Magic, I'm not sure) as a piece of jewelry or a monocle in previous editions.

[eastmabl]

Components pouch is one part handwavium and another part legacy rule.

You're right, but you might as well ask how trail rations work. Nobody cares because we're too busy killing things to notice.

[Gurifu]

Focus occupies your hand. What this means is if your spell requires material and somatic components you are fine, but if it requires only somatic components, you need to drop your focus.

I don't know where you got this idea. A focus doesn't occupy your hand. In fact, it explicitly requires a free hand to use - the same free hand that does your somatics (PHB 203). Theoretically, if you have a focus in your hand, you have to pocket it before you can use it! That's clearly against the intent of a wand or rod, so most DMs and players just assume that it stays in your hand until you need to use your hand for something else.

Anyway, since Interact with an Object isn't explicitly part of the action economy any more, but instead takes place in tandem with your action or move as many times as the DM will put up with, RAW actually allows you to start with both hands full, sheathe one of your weapons, cast your spells with or without components or foci, and have your weapon out again for reaction attacks at the end of your turn - although most DMs will forbid it.

(Not to mention all the spellcasters in the published adventures who use two-handed weapons while casting spells, and don't have material components or casting foci in their inventories at all...)

[RickAllison]

I don't know where you got this idea. A focus doesn't occupy your hand. In fact, it explicitly requires a free hand to use - the same free hand that does your somatics (PHB 203). Theoretically, if you have a focus in your hand, you have to pocket it before you can use it! That's clearly against the intent of a wand or rod, so most DMs and players just assume that it stays in your hand until you need to use your hand for something else.

Anyway, since Interact with an Object isn't explicitly part of the action economy any more, but instead takes place in tandem with your action or move as many times as the DM will put up with, RAW actually allows you to start with both hands full, sheathe one of your weapons, cast your spells with or without components or foci, and have your weapon out again for reaction attacks at the end of your turn - although most DMs will forbid it.

(Not to mention all the spellcasters in the published adventures who use two-handed weapons while casting spells, and don't have material components or casting foci in their inventories at all...)

Note: you only get one free object interaction per turn in this edition. So you couldn't both sheathe and unsheathe your weapon in one turn. You could, however, drop the weapon without using the interaction and then pick it up with the free interaction.

[FightStyles]

The logic sometimes comes from the people playing and the setting. It's mostly just RP anyways, so make up a reason that makes sense to you. However, keep it on the RP side of things.

I am currently a sorcerer using a component pouch. I keep track of what spells use components, but not the usage. For example, I know that fireball uses bat guano and sulfur, but it doesn't get used up or anything when I cast fireball. I simply use it to describe how I'm casting the magic (RP) over just saying that my character casts fireball.

"Yeau pulls out a mixture of bat guano and sulfur from his bag." Everyone at the table gets excited as they know what's coming. "A sphere of fire is formed between the Drow and before they realize it, it quickly expands engulfing any of them within a 20ft radius of the ball."

Which is strictly better in my opinion over "Yeau casts fireball centered here. They all roll Dex against my DC of 15."

[ZenBear]

I don't know where you got this idea. A focus doesn't occupy your hand. In fact, it explicitly requires a free hand to use - the same free hand that does your somatics (PHB 203). Theoretically, if you have a focus in your hand, you have to pocket it before you can use it! That's clearly against the intent of a wand or rod, so most DMs and players just assume that it stays in your hand until you need to use your hand for something else.

Anyway, since Interact with an Object isn't explicitly part of the action economy any more, but instead takes place in tandem with your action or move as many times as the DM will put up with, RAW actually allows you to start with both hands full, sheathe one of your weapons, cast your spells with or without components or foci, and have your weapon out again for reaction attacks at the end of your turn - although most DMs will forbid it.

(Not to mention all the spellcasters in the published adventures who use two-handed weapons while casting spells, and don't have material components or casting foci in their inventories at all...)

I debated this topic on your side back in the early days of 5e. It's stupid, but per RAW you can only use the same hand holding the focus for somatic components if the spell also calls for material comps because it only specifies that option when the spell calls for material comps. RAI might be different and I've never met a DM who enforced it. The other stupid part is that drawing a focus costs your Object Interaction, but drawing a specific component from a fanny pack (re Component Pouch) does not.

[Sigreid]

It's an acknowledgement that people don't like to track components and ammunition, and a compromise to require something that can be taken away from the caster but not require a tonne of bookkeeping that many don't find all that fun.

[Gurifu]

I debated this topic on your side back in the early days of 5e. It's stupid, but per RAW you can only use the same hand holding the focus for somatic components if the spell also calls for material comps because it only specifies that option when the spell calls for material comps. RAI might be different and I've never met a DM who enforced it. The other stupid part is that drawing a focus costs your Object Interaction, but drawing a specific component from a fanny pack (re Component Pouch) does not.

Read the rule again. The strictest possible RAW reading is that you can't use an arcane focus if it's in your hand - you must have a free hand to use material components, and you can substitute a focus for a material component. No free hand, no material component, even if you start out holding your material components.

(I don't think that anyone has to argue about the RAI, which is that you're supposed to hold your magic focus to cast spells, like every other wizard in every other setting, but if we're going down the RAW road, we might as well follow it all the way.)

[Captbrannigan]

Nobody I play with uses a component pouch any more. Why would you, when arcane foci are a thing? Components are what you use if you get stripped of your casting implements somehow.

For multiclass casters it's easier with a universal component pouch than burning action economy changing foci. Also, as mentioned, 1/3 casters don't get a focus.

[JumboWheat01]

Combining logic and magic is never a good practice in sanity. Besides, does it say just how big the "pouch" is anyway? It says how much it costs, and how much it weighs, but not really its size. It could easily hold a lot of things based on its size. One man's back-pack is another man's pocket.

The real question should be what is WITH some of these spell components? Just why is bat crap part of the needed materials to make a blazing fireball?

[mer.c]

The real question should be what is WITH some of these spell components? Just why is bat crap part of the needed materials to make a blazing fireball?

That's actually one of the most scientifically/rationally sound components (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder) in the D&D spell list.

[JumboWheat01]

That's actually one of the most scientifically/rationally sound components (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder) in the D&D spell list.

...I blame gnomes for that one. Them and their tinkering ways, trying to bring science into everything.

[Sigreid]

Nobody I play with uses a component pouch any more. Why would you, when arcane foci are a thing? Components are what you use if you get stripped of your casting implements somehow.

My casters use both. The component pouch has the advantage of carrying the special-have-to-have components, as well as giving you a backup in case some clever BM disarms you of your focus and destroys it.

[bardo]

The real question should be what is WITH some of these spell components? Just why is bat crap part of the needed materials to make a blazing fireball?

Originally, material components were mostly mundane ways to fake the effects of the spell. Rubbing fur on a glass rod produces static electricity for Lightning Bolt. Bat guano and sulfur make gun powder for Fireball. Sesame seeds for Passwall.

It's a 40 years old inside joke.

Bardo.

[JoeJ]

If you want to add a little bit more realism, just say that the pouch needs to be replenished between adventures. This might cost a few gp, or be considered part of the upkeep cost if the character maintains a comfortable or better life style.

[Sigreid]

If you want to add a little bit more realism, just say that the pouch needs to be replenished between adventures. This might cost a few gp, or be considered part of the upkeep cost if the character maintains a comfortable or better life style.

I think I read in the book that part of your cost of living is supposed to be maintaining, repairing, and replenishing your equipment.

[Yuki Akuma]

It's been said before, but it seems it needs to be repeated: most spells don't consume material components anymore. Your spell component pouch doesn't contain infinite amounts of small amber rods and bits of fleece - it contains one small amber rod and bit of fleece that you use to cast Lightning Bolt over and over again. All the material components of every spell you know are unlikely to take up that much volume, given for the vast majority you only need one copy.


If you want to add a little bit more realism, just say that the pouch needs to be replenished between adventures. This might cost a few gp, or be considered part of the upkeep cost if the character maintains a comfortable or better life style.

Why would you need to replenish it? You don't use up anything!

Edit: Of the 195 spells in the Player's Handbook that have a material component, 28 of them consume the component. Of these 28, only 2 of them have no listed cost. The other 26 have a listed cost so they wouldn't be in your spell component pouch anyway.

There's also 28 spells which list a cost for the component but don't consume it.

So, in summary, there are 137 spells where you can just reuse the same so-cheap-it's-basically-free component, which you would put in your spell component pouch if you know/prepare those spells. You'd probably only know/prepare at most 20 such spells, though!

[JoeJ]

Why would you need to replenish it? You don't use up anything!

Some of the stuff won't stay fresh forever. Things like animal food, blood, butter, and pieces of tentacle will eventually go bad. Friends requires makeup to actually be applied, and several spells require incense to be burning.

Also, all adventuring equipment should eventually wear out if you don't maintain it, although that probably won't become a factor unless the PCs are spending an extended time adventuring without any down time.

[Zalabim]

Originally, material components were mostly mundane ways to fake the effects of the spell. Rubbing fur on a glass rod produces static electricity for Lightning Bolt. Bat guano and sulfur make gun powder for Fireball. Sesame seeds for Passwall.

It's a 40 years old inside joke.

Bardo.

My favorite is for this is still Tasha's Hideous Laughter, which requires tiny tarts (once thrown at the target) and a feather (waggled). The mental picture of throwing small custard pies at someone and then threatening them with a feather makes me smile, and I'm not even the target.

[JumboWheat01]

My favorite is for this is still Tasha's Hideous Laughter, which requires tiny tarts (once thrown at the target) and a feather (waggled). The mental picture of throwing small custard pies at someone and then threatening them with a feather makes me smile, and I'm not even the target.

O.o ... I need to dig up old source books and look at their magic. My "old D&D" experience is strictly through video games, which tend to ignore components, so I've missed a lot of this old spell humor.

[Coffee_Dragon]

All the material components of every spell you know are unlikely to take up that much volume, given for the vast majority you only need one copy.

I just read the material component for Banishment: "an item distasteful to the target".

"And here's the dragon scale I use to banish behirs... and here's the frying pan for myconids... and here's what I use for chuuls, I don't even know what that is ... oh, and then there's the vacuum cleaner for cats..."


I like using component pouches as hidden back-ups for my foci. Yes, Mr. Guard, take my wand. Little do you know that I have everything I need in my sock!

The 7th-level Stinky Fog spell requires only a used sock worth no less than 3 cp (which is consumed in the casting).