Dispel Evil useful?

[Jowgen]

Dispel Evil can dispel evil-caster enchantments and Evil-descriptor spells without a dispel check, which is potentially great for improving items via the Ritual of Magic from DMG II.

Does it have any particular applications beyond that?

[Cruiser1]

Dispel Evil can dispel evil-caster enchantments and Evil-descriptor spells without a dispel check. Does it have any particular applications beyond that?
Yes, you can use Dispel Evil to dispel ANY spell. First use the Incantatrix Metamagic Effect ability to apply the Corrupt Spell metamagic feat to a super high caster level buff that ordinary can't be dispelled. Once the spell is [Evil], then discharge Dispel Evil to dispel it with 100% reliability. :smallbiggrin:

[Troacctid]

Paladins can cast it as a swift action, making it handy as an action-efficient save-or-lose against fiends.

Since it's a melee touch spell, you can deliver it through a punch, which is handy for a Sacred Fist or other Monk multiclass build. Even if your attack misses, you still get the AC bonus.

[Orc]

Really probably depends on the setting you're in whether or not it'll come in handy in any other circumstances (I mean, if you happen to be going up against a lot of evil casters, it'll situationally be useful. I think through some sort of shenanigans it is possible to get it to apply to any spell as well.

[Seward]

My wife's Sacred Exorcist got it for free, and she found it quite handy.

I'm not sure if she would have prepped it if it wasn't a class ability, but evil critters do a lot of nasty effects, and many of them take more than a standard action to remove without using Dispel evil. The big downside was touch range (once a problem when she was trying to unconfuse a rampaging, fully buffed, enlarged monk, but the party eventually figured out how to finesse her into range)

[Inevitability]

Yes, you can use Dispel Evil to dispel ANY spell. First use the Incantatrix Metamagic Effect ability to apply the Corrupt Spell metamagic feat to a super high caster level buff that ordinary can't be dispelled. Once the spell is [Evil], then discharge Dispel Evil to dispel it with 100% reliability. :smallbiggrin:

For bonus points, fluff it as an insane wizard with a split personality. One of his personalities is NE and constantly corrupts other peoples' buffs in hope of showing them the power of evil, the other is NG and only wishes to undo his alternate self's harm.

[Venger]

Yes, you can use Dispel Evil to dispel ANY spell. First use the Incantatrix Metamagic Effect ability to apply the Corrupt Spell metamagic feat to a super high caster level buff that ordinary can't be dispelled. Once the spell is [Evil], then discharge Dispel Evil to dispel it with 100% reliability. :smallbiggrin:

It can only dispel enchantments by evil creatures or [evil] spells. it can't dispel other spells.

I don't get what you're saying about incantatrix. are you saying you'd dispel your own spell?

[Jowgen]

It can only dispel enchantments by evil creatures or [evil] spells. it can't dispel other spells.

I don't get what you're saying about incantatrix. are you saying you'd dispel your own spell?

I think it's a liberal reading of the "can use a single metamagic effect of any metamagic feat she knows on a spell without preparing it beforehand (if a wizard) or increasing its casting time (if a sorcerer or bard)" line that allows one to place metamagic effects on active spells cast by others?

[atemu1234]

I think it's a liberal reading of the "can use a single metamagic effect of any metamagic feat she knows on a spell without preparing it beforehand (if a wizard) or increasing its casting time (if a sorcerer or bard)" line that allows one to place metamagic effects on active spells cast by others?

Not quite. IIRC, as I am AFB, there is also an ability that allows an Incantatrix can add a Metamagic effect to a spell as it is being cast, even if they are not the one casting.

[Cruiser1]

I think it's a liberal reading of the "can use a single metamagic effect of any metamagic feat she knows on a spell without preparing it beforehand (if a wizard) or increasing its casting time (if a sorcerer or bard)" line that allows one to place metamagic effects on active spells cast by others?
Yes, the 3.5 version of Incantatrix can apply metamagic effects to existing spells that have already been cast:

Metamagic Effect (Su): At 3rd level, an incantatrix can attempt to apply a metamagic feat she possesses to a persistent spell effect that is already in place. For example, she could use Extend Spell to extend the duration of a wall of force or Maximize Spell to maximize the damage dealt by a cloudkill. To use this ability, theincantatrix must be adjacent to or within the spell effect...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

D.E. is one of those completely niche spells that should only be cast from a scroll unless you know for absolute sure that it's going to be cast lots of times -- like if the party is heading into the Abyss or you've got an Evil barrier to dispel, an empty spell slot, and 15 minutes to kill.

[Venger]

D.E. is one of those completely niche spells that should only be cast from a scroll unless you know for absolute sure that it's going to be cast lots of times -- like if the party is heading into the Abyss or you've got an Evil barrier to dispel, an empty spell slot, and 15 minutes to kill.

Even then, since it skips a caster level check, you're still better off with a scroll.

[Psyren]

Yes, the 3.5 version of Incantatrix can apply metamagic effects to existing spells that have already been cast:

That's a hilarious trick. And it's probably not even an evil act to corrupt magic like that, so you can adventure alongside your pally friend just fine :smallbiggrin:

[TheFamilarRaven]

Even then, since it skips a caster level check, you're still better off with a scroll.

And even still, if you know that you're going to be facing a bunch of enchantment flinging evil creatures, you'd probably have Protection From Evil up on you're party, which denies any attempt at [compulsion] or [charm] effects by evil creatures. Making it look even more likely that dispel Evil should be saved as a scroll, and not prepped on a regular basis.

[Seward]

Scrolls do have a certain action economy cost, especially for a touch spell (you can't move and cast with a scroll unless you are mounted).

Prot evil doesn't stop most Enchantments - most are not "grant the caster ongoing control over the subject such as Dominate". Pretty much it works on the Charm types, Magic Jar and, at some tables but not all, Suggestion. So if your problem is confusion/feeblemind/etc it's pretty handy. Granted there are other fixes for such problems (Heal gets some, Dispel gets some if you can stick it, prot evil vs charm spells etc), but dispel evil "just works".

It is also one of the very few ways to undo the effects of a Blasphemy.

Prot evil also doesn't even end the effects it does suppress - you still have a dominated barbarian even when the vampire is staked, who will still try to carry out his last order until you get rid of the spell. Dispel evil doesn't have that long term cleanup problem.

That said - my experience with the spell was when it was a class feature, so there was no opportunity cost. It's a rather high level spell with a niche use. I've had a fair amount of luck with such spells when they're on sorcerer/favored soul/oracle type spont casters as long as it isn't the first spell you take (or if it is, you've got good metamagic to use those slots when it isn't useful).

As a 3rd or 4th spell known, it could be decent for the right kind of caster, especially if it is thematic (as it was for the Sacred Exorcist class). For your typical cleric, they're just gonna take another flame strike or greater command or righteous might or something similar most days. Because it "just works" it is also a great candidate to fill an empty spell slot or prep the next day, to fix the dominated guy without having to win a caster level check with a dispel or break enchantment.

[TheFamilarRaven]

By the by, what are some of the more nasty enchantments that aren't [Charm] or [Compulsion] effects? I can't think of any off the top of my head, since from memory the Enchantment school is chalk full of things that Compel targets to perform action, who alter their mood in some way via charm....

Edit: I see where I'm getting mixed up. Paizo and the SRD have significantly different spell descriptions. The pathfinder version omits the part about the [Compulsion] being "on going control". And they specifically state that "Immune to any new attempt", and leave out the part about the spell effect still going through.

post edit: Or maybe I've never read this deeply into the spell before and now my whole world in coming apart....

[Troacctid]

Hold Person is probably the most notable one.

[TheFamilarRaven]

Hold Person is probably the most notable one.

Hold Person is a [Compulsion] effect though. And I would think that counts as "ongoing control" though. Since, the caster is literally controlling your inability to move. Sure, the caster can't broadcast commands, but the caster can end the spell effect anytime. The term "ongoing" to me means "anything with a duration of longer than 'instantaneous'".


Am I crazy?

[Elder_Basilisk]

Hold Person is a [Compulsion] effect though. And I would think that counts as "ongoing control" though. Since, the caster is literally controlling your inability to move. Sure, the caster can't broadcast commands, but the caster can end the spell effect anytime. The term "ongoing" to me means "anything with a duration of longer than 'instantaneous'".


Am I crazy?

In 3.5, I would count ongoing control as the ability to control the victims' actions on a round by round basis by issuing new orders. Thus dominate grants ongoing control because if I tell you to run away in round 1 and then decide I'd rather you charge the wizard in round 2, I can tell you to charge the wizard in round 2. On the other hand, suggestion does not grant ongoing control. If I suggest that you retreat to the tower, I can't change my mind in the next round and tell you to run across the bridge instead. If I want that, I would need to cast another spell.

[ace rooster]

By the by, what are some of the more nasty enchantments that aren't [Charm] or [Compulsion] effects? I can't think of any off the top of my head, since from memory the Enchantment school is chalk full of things that Compel targets to perform action, who alter their mood in some way via charm....

Edit: I see where I'm getting mixed up. Paizo and the SRD have significantly different spell descriptions. The pathfinder version omits the part about the [Compulsion] being "on going control". And they specifically state that "Immune to any new attempt", and leave out the part about the spell effect still going through.

post edit: Or maybe I've never read this deeply into the spell before and now my whole world in coming apart....

Feeblemind is probably the most obvious. A symbol of insanity is another particularly nasty one that can hold up a party for hours, particularly if they have mooks in tow (the insanity spell itself is instantanious duration, so cannot be dispelled). They can wait it out, but might not always have the option. Mind fog might also be worth getting rid of, particularly if you are expecting illusions to follow.
DE also works against the buffs, though the touch attack can be an issue. Removing the greater heroism from a dragon could be worth an action, though you are looking at strange suboptimal builds like spring attack eldritch knights* in order for this to be remotely a good idea.

If the party has an enchanter or summons based conjurer on your side this can be really useful too. Magic circle against good is an evil spell, and is a powerful defense against these two tactics. You don't even have to get in melee range to target this spell.

Against a high level evil conjurer a wand of it might even be worth it. Touch attack to automatically dismiss evil summonings. The game would not go that way, because the DM would rapidly get bored of those encounters, but shutting down the enemy's plan A is definitely a win.

Yeah, niche uses. Probably best kept as a scroll or partially charged wand (if available). Wand preferably, as it makes it easier for the party rogue to use it, and they are probably the one you want it on. Primary casters will generally be higher CL than stuff like dragons, so a standard dispel would be better for them (range, multiple targets, just better if it works). Against high level casters the primaries will generally have more important things to do.

*Actually sounds fun now that I think about it.