Bladesinger Build Advice

[somehownotsingl]

I want to build a bladesinger for an upcoming campaign, and I've decided I want him to function as a true gish: a capable spellcaster, but also a capable melee participant. I know this isn't an optimized build, but it's the RP concept that I want.

-I'll make him DEX-based. STR-based bladesingers could work, but it just gets MAD rather quickly, I think.
-I'll make him high elf (or, human variant, if I can get DM permission).
-I'll pick up the tough feat (either at first ASI as elf, or 1 as HV). Bladesinger can get plenty of AC (between bladesinging and shield spell), but their HP is a problem.

I think I'll need to do something other than straight Bladesinger to give him some oomph in combat.

One possibility is Fighter 1 (or even 2)/Bladesinger X.

This gets prof in CON saves, and a fighting style. I'm thinking duelist over TWF, mainly because throwing an ASI at warcaster is going to hurt, since both DEX and INT really need to be as high as possible for this build. Plus, dueling does quite decent damage over time. Action surge would be lovely, though not sure i want to delay spells a second level. Our games don't go much above the 12-15 range, if that.

Another possibility is Rogue 2 (or even 3) / Bladesinger X. Get some nice sneak attack damage, get to disengage as a bonus action, plus other nice rogue-ish stuff. Would probably go Assassin if I went all the way to Rogue 3. Arcane trickster has obvious synergy appeal, but I won't be going rogue deeply enough to care, really.

So, what do you think:

Bladesinger X
Fighter 1/BS X
Fighter 2/BS X
Rogue 2/BS X (no reason to go just rogue 1, really)
Rogue 3/BS X

Are there other good options I'm not thinking of? I really do want him to be a capable wizard in his own right (even if he's obviously not optimized for that role), so builds that just do a two level wizard dip to take grab bladesinging, then move on, don't really appeal to me.

[RickAllison]

I'm assuming point-buy?

One option for Rogue 3 is the Swashbuckler. You effectively get Mobile, a bonus on initiative if you have spare Charisma, and a more reliable Sneak Attack. At that point, you basically have a free 2d6 extra damage per turn without having to lobby for advantage constantly and you can then use your Cunning Action as Dash to get where you want to go without fear of reprisal.

[Ewhit]

Don't know about swashbuckler to give opinion but I agree with rogue you get bonus action to disengage and move around and you get sneak attack for extra damage. Read up on sneak attack. On top of that if you go assassin Lvl 3 if you go first you get advantage as well. Get feat alertness later and you can always go first and get sneak attack and then after maneuver and get sneak attack each turn when friend is within 5 ft of enemy

[RickAllison]

Don't know about swashbuckler to give opinion but I agree with rogue you get bonus action to disengage and move around and you get sneak attack for extra damage. Read up on sneak attack. On top of that if you go assassin Lvl 3 if you go first you get advantage as well. Get feat alertness later and you can always go first and get sneak attack and then after maneuver and get sneak attack each turn when friend is within 5 ft of enemy

For the uninitiated and AFB, the introductory feature for Swashbucklers lets them get sneak attacks when no creatures but the target are within five feet of the rogue.

[somehownotsingl]

Thanks for advice so far.

Yes, should have specified that this is point buy in.

So, I was thinking:

Elf (after bonuses): 8, 16, 14, 16, 12, 8

Human Variant (after bonuses): 8, 16, 14, 16, 10, 8

There's a lot of good things about Swashbuckler, but I don't think I can have enough CHA to make it worth it. I figure a bladesinger that wants to be capable of entering melee without changing pants first every time has to have at least a 14 CON, so that already gives me three stats to juggle (DEX, INT, CON) without even getting to CHA. I mean, I could dump WIS rather than CHA, but still that's going to mean choosing a build that takes advantage of a stat that is never going to be more than a +1.

[RickAllison]

Thanks for advice so far.

Yes, should have specified that this is point buy in.

So, I was thinking:

Elf (after bonuses): 8, 16, 14, 16, 12, 8

Human Variant (after bonuses): 8, 16, 14, 16, 10, 8

There's a lot of good things about Swashbuckler, but I don't think I can have enough CHA to make it worth it. I figure a bladesinger that wants to be capable of entering melee without changing pants first every time has to have at least a 14 CON, so that already gives me three stats to juggle (DEX, INT, CON) without even getting to CHA. I mean, I could dump WIS rather than CHA, but still that's going to mean choosing a build that takes advantage of a stat that is never going to be more than a +1.

The Charisma is more of an ancillary bonus. In my eyes, the main features for you are the easier SAs and the Mobile ability. Charisma only becomes really important for the class at level 9, with Panache.

[somehownotsingl]

Looking at it again, swashbuckler is actually a nice option, seeing as how it's a max 3 level dip (for the build I have in mind). Sure, it's only a +1 to initiative at most (assuming a 12 CHA and dumped WIS), but fancy footwork and being able to sneak attack solo are very nice. Should actually re-read SCAG before replying next time :-)

[somehownotsingl]

The Charisma is more of an ancillary bonus. In my eyes, the main features for you are the easier SAs and the Mobile ability. Charisma only becomes really important for the class at level 9, with Panache.

Ha! Yes, just finished confessing my oversight right before you posted this :-)

[CaptAl]

Rogue is an awesome dip for a BS that wants to be a skirmisher. The 2/3 level choice depends on high high your campaign goes. If you will make it to 20, it's tough to give up the level 18 wizard ability.

Tough is a nice feat, but not needed if you play smart. Get in, poke the bad guy, and get away. Resilient DEX is a better pick up IMO. BC in the low levels you'll rarely, if ever, get hit unless the mob crits. The low HP problem can be mitigated with 5 levels in rogue (uncanny dodge) and at 10 Bladesinger (Song of defense). A 20+ AC plus Blur active means only crits hit you, making uncanny dodge very attractive.

[Mors]

What lvl will you start, how open are you to multiclass and how mach emphasis on the dpr potential do you want to give? More multiclassing could mean bigger damage boost on your attack but it will hurt your spell casting potential.

Check this post for a start.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?450158-Treantmonk-s-Guide-to-Wizards-5e/page32&p=6818344&viewfull=1#post6818344

[Nicodiemus]

Concur on the Swashbuckling dip. Also, don't bother with TWF even if you fighter dip because until you get war caster it's too much of a gimp to your spell casting. Better off going with duelist

[Mors]

Concur on the Swashbuckling dip. Also, don't bother with TWF even if you fighter dip because until you get war caster it's too much of a gimp to your spell casting. Better off going with duelist

It is not so big of a deal as you make it look like to be. It is a free action to sheathe your weapon and cast spells and next turn to grab it again and attack, as a gish you do not intend to cast so much as you will be attacking and there are a lot of useful spells without somatic components. Also, a lot of useful buffs, like haste, can be cast before the combat starts.

A two-hander is the superior choice for a non-BS, but in order to take advantage of BS you need to wield one-handed weapons and leaving a hand empty is wasted potential.

For a more complicated build, you can combine some lvls of swashbuckler with BS for a way to dual-wield and still be able to move away, which has excellent synergy with Booming Blade attacks of course. You may want to delay the dip until you get Haste (or not, according to preferances).