[3.5] How Many Ogre Zombies...

[Thurbane]

OK, so I'm somewhat inspired by Fitzcarraldo (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083946/) and Conan the Barbarian (2011) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0816462/).

I have an idea for a BBEG who travels around (on land) in a Galley or Warship carries or hauled by a group of Ogre Zombies (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/zombie.htm).

How many of them would it take? The BBEG would use the ship as a mobile base of operations, with all of his gears, supplies and allies on board.

Cheers - T

[Blackhawk748]

OK, so I'm somewhat inspired by Fitzcarraldo (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083946/) and Conan the Barbarian (2011) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0816462/).

I have an idea for a BBEG who travels around (on land) in a Galley or Warship carries or hauled by a group of Ogre Zombies (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/zombie.htm).

How many of them would it take? The BBEG would use the ship as a mobile base of operations, with all of his gears, supplies and allies on board.

Cheers - T

Lots :smalltongue: In all seriousness i would say somewhere around 18, as it would be about 3 Ogres across, and about 6 long. Im pretty sure they can lift a boat combined.

[Mongobear]

As many as you want there to be.

We could very well math it out based on Strength scores, and carrying capacity, and total weight of cargo + passengers, but if you just wanted to say that there were 20, 35, 50 or even 100+ Ogre Zombies, no one would really call you on it, unless your group is a giant flock of Rules-Lawyers.

[Thurbane]

My group aren't really rules lawyers, but I like my games to be logically consistent where possible.

Maybe I should go for a slightly smaller craft, like a Keelboat.

[DrMotives]

I remember something like this in 2e Darksun, there were ships powered by giant hamster wheels filled with zombies who just marched forward on command. Pretty sure they didn't define the number of zombies there either, just enough to fill the bottom part of the wheel.

[Blackhawk748]

My group aren't really rules lawyers, but I like my games to be logically consistent where possible.

Maybe I should go for a slightly smaller craft, like a Keelboat.

Well how wide is the boat? If its 20 feet, you put one in the center the other 2 get at least 5 feet to grab on to, then you just place them to add as many as possible to the boat.

[OldTrees1]

There is not a solid RAW answer because the RAW answer involves Aid Another checks (number allowed decided by the DM as per RAW instructions) and placing logs as rollers to decrease the Str check DC (DC drop is RAW for mitigating circumstances but the amount of the drop is not specified)


So it would be 1d20+6+2X vs DC Y-Z.
X=number of aid another actions able to effect the result (rope pullers and boat pushers in the back)
Y=the base pull DC for the ship
-Z=the DC decrease due to the rollers

Or at least that would be the way if there were any guide to pull DCs for Str checks. Since there are not, let's treat all these modifiers as if they increased the effective Str of the prime zombie ogre and using carrying capacity rules.

"Str" = 23+4X+Z
We are looking at the drag column and remembering that Large size is a x2 multiplier.

If we call the keelboat 1100lbs (remove the ballast) we see it could be dragged by merely 3 zombie ogres. 4 zombie ogres if they forgot to remove the ballast.

[Blackhawk748]

There is not a solid RAW answer because the RAW answer involves Aid Another checks (number allowed decided by the DM as per RAW instructions) and placing logs as rollers to decrease the Str check DC (DC drop is RAW for mitigating circumstances but the amount of the drop is not specified)


So it would be 1d20+6+2X vs DC Y-Z.
X=number of aid another actions able to effect the result (rope pullers and boat pushers in the back)
Y=the base pull DC for the ship
-Z=the DC decrease due to the rollers

Or at least that would be the way if there were any guide to pull DCs for Str checks. Since there are not, let's treat all these modifiers as if they increased the effective Str of the prime zombie ogre and using carrying capacity rules.

"Str" = 23+4X+Z
We are looking at the drag column and remembering that Large size is a x2 multiplier.

If we call it 1100lbs (remove the ballast) we see it could be dragged by merely 3 zombie ogres. 4 zombie ogres if they forgot to remove the ballast.

I have a feeling that a ship would weigh more than 1100 lbs, im not sure how much it would actually weigh, but im guessing over a ton. Even so, we are talking about adding like 3 more Ogre Zombies.

I found this (http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/vikings2.htm), which says a "typical" longship weighs about 20 ton, but thats a 70ft ish long ship by about 20 ish feet.

[gooddragon1]

Google says "average weight of silver fleet galleons 600 tons"

Ogre zombie max load 1200 lbs. X5 push drag 6000 lbs or 3 tons. 200 ogre zombies can push/drag it. Don't worry about them getting tired either.

[Godskook]

I looked up estimates that say that the House from Up weighs ~100,000 lbs.

Each Zombie Ogre could carry ~1200 lbs a piece normally, which puts us at about 83 to carry this, but we can do better.

Bloodhulk Giants can also be made from ogres, but require 28 HD undead creation skills(if you care). They can carry ~4800 lbs each, which does the job in 21 persons. However, we can still do better!

With Corpsecrafter, our bloodhulks will have 37 strength, and can carry ~ 8320 lbs. This drops us down to a mere 12 large-sized creatures.

If you can get access to huge creatures, you can use Bloodhulk Crushers, which give you 47 strength, which puts us up to only needing 2 such creatures to carry the house, each handling ~66,560 lbs. I leave them as a footnote because assuming your BBEG works via RAW, he'd have a very hard time finding enough corpses to manage to construct these massive beasts.

[OldTrees1]

I have a feeling that a ship would weigh more than 1100 lbs, im not sure how much it would actually weigh, but im guessing over a ton. Even so, we are talking about adding like 3 more Ogre Zombies.

I found this (http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/vikings2.htm), which says a "typical" longship weighs about 20 ton, but thats a 70ft ish long ship by about 20 ish feet.

You may have seen my edit, I clarified my calculation was for the Keelboat the OP mentioned(I couldn't find hull weights for the others)

So the various weights of different ships mentioned
Keelboat 1100-2000lb (without - with ballast)
40,000lb (your 20Tons)
100,000lb (Godshook)
1,200,000lb (Gooddragon's 600Tons)

If we assume Str 23+4X drag weight(x2 for large)
1100 23 Str -> 1 Ogre
2000 27 Str -> 2 Ogres
40K 49 Str -> 8 Ogres
100K 55 Str -> 9 Ogres
1200K 75 Str -> 14 Ogres
Obviously there are some flaws with the "convert group Str check into effective Str score for the carrying capacity table". So I suggest adding a fudge factor. Why not square the number of Ogres needed?

[atemu1234]

Google says "average weight of silver fleet galleons 600 tons"

Ogre zombie max load 1200 lbs. X5 push drag 6000 lbs or 3 tons. 200 ogre zombies can push/drag it. Don't worry about them getting tired either.

They won't get tired, but they will be slow.

[Vizzerdrix]

Any way to get minwral warrior on them?

[Inevitability]

Any way to get minwral warrior on them?

Use half-ogres with human heritage instead of ogres. Cast Mineralize Warrior on them, then kill them and reanimate them. You lose 2 points of strength per animated creature, but can now raise four half-ogre zombies for every ogre zombie you could originally raise.

[Vizzerdrix]

Interesting. What about casting Return to Nature on them while they are alive? Yeah theyll lose some str but youll be able to fit more under the boat.

[Segev]

The correct question isn't, "How many ogre zombies does it take?"

The correct question is, "How many ogre zombies are you going to use?"

You're having a BBEG necromancer use an incredibly impractical but awesome means of moving his mobile base around. There is no such thing as "overkill," here. Use Corpsecrafter or Dread Necromancer or the UA variant Necromancer Enhanced Undead feature for stronger individual undead, and use command undead and Chain Spell and Undead Leadership to ensure you have plenty of undead you can control. Use minions who control undead, if needs be. Put an altar to Nerull or some other god of undeath and evil on your ship, and desecrate it, making sure your villain's animations take place within the desecration aura.

Then have a carpet of ogre zombies flow across the land, carrying the ship and passing it hand-to-hand over their heads as needs be for awesome.