Spontaneous Tier 1 - Thought Experience

[Gwazi Magnum]

Basically, how much more powerful would you find Tier 1 Classes (Wizard, Cleric, Druid) etc. if they could spontaneously cast all their spells like a Sorcerer could?

[noob]

Since they already can do that it does not change a lot except for players that does not understand that they can.

[Gwazi Magnum]

No they can't though. :/

They can spontaniously cast a specific spell, but not any spell they have.

[Incanur]

For years I've had a player who likes playing clerics but can't be bothered to prepare spells (and generally isn't too engaged). I just rolled with it. The first PC in question, a cleric of Garagos, ended up varying between mediocrity and ending encounters with a single spell. Now we're playing a legacy campaign where the same player has similar character who's also a cleric of Garagos, I've made spontaneous casting official for that deity.

[johnbragg]

I'm sure there's some TO way that they can, even without wish loop abuse.

But the answer is, they'd be a lot more powerful.

[Doctor Despair]

Any arcane caster that takes Uncanny Forethought becomes, essentially, a spontaneous caster providing they have pumped their intelligence high enough. In fact, they are better than a normal spontaneous caster since they reduce cast times to a standard action -- or a full-round action, depending on if their spell mastery covered it.

[noob]

I through to that feat and to rune staffs and to the various ways to gain greater arcane fusion and to shadowcraft mages.(cast any conjuration spell but 110% real(yes that is a thing you can even have more with sanctum and earth spell you can have 130% real spells))
And also there is shape-change to cast a free wish every turn(and you can replicate a whole lot of spells).
independently of your build you can grab a rune-staff of greater arcane fusion and cast any low level spell you have and then use uncanny fore-through for high level spells.

[ryu]

Spontaneous divination ACF to qualify for versatile spellcaster means any wizard who wants sorcerer goodies can and for the cost of roughly two feats. Better actually in addition to picking spells within slots he can manipulate how many slots of a given level he has by sacrificing two lower level slots to get one of the next level.

[Kelb_Panthera]

A) One of the T1 classes is already a spontaneous "caster"; the erudite. Bump him up to StP Erudite and he actually shifts to T0 and the unquestionably most powerful class in the game.

B) The other 5 T1's can mostly become spontaneous by jumping through a few hoops as described above.

C) Barring the jumping of those hoops, the only real limiting factor to T1 power is the fact that they're mostly prepared casters (limitations on the number of unique powers per day and the native limitations of the psion/wilder list stand in the erudite's way and there are hoops for him to push past the former).

I'd advise against removing one of the few advantages the T2's have over the T1's if you're at all interested in seeing the T2 classes played for any reason other than different flavor or intentional power limiting.

[Sahleb]

A) One of the T1 classes is already a spontaneous "caster"; the erudite. Bump him up to StP Erudite and he actually shifts to T0 and the unquestionably most powerful class in the game.

Note that this is only the case at higher levels: you're still bound by unique powers/day. While you don't have to pick them beforehand, that still puts a real limit on what you can do, especially at lower levels.

Also, Rainbow Warsnakes are very, very good.

[atemu1234]

Note that this is only the case at higher levels: you're still bound by unique powers/day. While you don't have to pick them beforehand, that still puts a real limit on what you can do, especially at lower levels.

Also, Rainbow Warsnakes are very, very good.

True, but considering the half-hour workday of your average spellcaster, it doesn't mean too much.

[Sahleb]

True, but considering the half-hour workday of your average spellcaster, it doesn't mean too much.

Having only 1-3 unique spells to cast each day is a real limitation, no two ways about it. Honestly, I wouldn't play an erudite, StP or no, unless I could start it off at level 8, at the earliest, and even then, having only 4 unique spells *hurts*. I guess I have longer adventuring days than most people, but for an 8th level wizard, it's pretty common to pop a divination spell or two, do a knock, charm a fool, and dispel a magical trap, all before I even get into combat.

I'm not saying it isn't powerful. Obviously, it's really powerful. But it does lack some of the verstility in the space of a single day that wizards can dish out.

[Psyren]

A) One of the T1 classes is already a spontaneous "caster"; the erudite. Bump him up to StP Erudite and he actually shifts to T0 and the unquestionably most powerful class in the game.

The true winner here is a T0 Psion, i.e. a Psion who has learned every power in a StP Erudite's head via Psychic Chirurgery or Fusion shenanigans. They have all the freedom of the STPE, but without the UPPD limit. (Of course, depending on how you read that limit it may not matter, but it's still there.) Psions can also MC/PrC freely without giving up their ability to learn discipline powers.

[ATHATH]

I just wanted to drop in to say:

This isn't just a though exercise, this is a thought EXPERIENCE.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Note that this is only the case at higher levels: you're still bound by unique powers/day. While you don't have to pick them beforehand, that still puts a real limit on what you can do, especially at lower levels.

Power stones are a thing. So are psionic tattoos and that lovely mind's eye article that makes tattoos awesome (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031225a).


Also, Rainbow Warsnakes are very, very good.

Exactly. At rainbow servant 10 the former T3-4 caster suddenly gains access to a T1 list that he can cast from spontaneously and jumps to near the top of T1 power. If it were the sorc/wiz list instead of cleric, he'd jump straight to T0's essentially unstobbable category. The only major drawbacks are the steep entry cost and the increased chance of option overload paralysis.

[AnonymousPepper]

Archivists can do this trivially - gaining access to full spontaneous casting - with the Acorn of Far Travel spell (which, for bonus EZ points, is already a common divine spell) and a level in the Hathran PrC (which has a minimal feat tax that includes the most powerful feat in the game, a deity requirement, and a gender requirement). This is particularly scary because Archivists can theoretically know every spell in the game. At the same time.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Archivists can do this trivially - gaining access to full spontaneous casting - with the Acorn of Far Travel spell (which, for bonus EZ points, is already a common divine spell) and a level in the Hathran PrC (which has a minimal feat tax that includes the most powerful feat in the game, a deity requirement, and a gender requirement). This is particularly scary because Archivists can theoretically know every spell in the game. At the same time.

One reason amongst several that I banned that spell from my game.