Skinwalker Beastmorph

[Voxx]

Hi everyone I just came up with a new character concept but I'm not sure whether or not it works with the rules.

Its a skinwalker alchemist(beastmorph archetype) he is using his alchemy to discover the secrets hidden in his heritage. My question is would his change shape ability and his mutagen stack or are these both considered polymorph effects so you can only have 1 active?

Thanks for the help

[Elricaltovilla]

Hi everyone I just came up with a new character concept but I'm not sure whether or not it works with the rules.

Its a skinwalker alchemist(beastmorph archetype) he is using his alchemy to discover the secrets hidden in his heritage. My question is would his change shape ability and his mutagen stack or are these both considered polymorph effects so you can only have 1 active?

Thanks for the help

As far as I can tell from the PFSRD neither are polymorph effects (or at least not explicitly stated as such) so you should be fine to have them both running. Someone else will probably be along to correct me soon enough :smalltongue:.

[Gallowglass]

I also don't see any explicit "polymorph effect" other than the spells they list as it working like are listed as polymorph type spells.

so you are skinwalker (race). You have the ability to change shape into a bestial form with the following effects:

+2 racial is str, dex OR con
2 claw attacks 1d4 each (primary? secondary? it doesn't say)
darkvision 60'
+1 racial to natural armor

meanwhile, you are an beastmorph alchemist (class). That gives you the following effects:

3rd level: gain 1 ability from alter self spell when you imbibe mutagen (and some fluff features that have no game stat bearing)
darkvision 60', low light vision, scent, swim 30'

6th level: gain 2 ability from beast shape 1 spell when you imbibe mutagen
darkvision 60', low light vision, scent, swim 30', climb 30', fly 30'

10th level: gain 3 ability from beast shape 2 spell when you imbibe mutagen
darkvision 60', low light vision, scent, swim 60', climb 60' fly 60', grab, pounch, trip

14th level: gain 4 ability from beast shape 3 spell when you imbibe mutagen
darkvision 60', low light vision, scent, swim 90', climb 90', fly 90', burrow 30', blindsense 30', constrict, ferocity, grab, jet, poison, pounch, rake, trample, trip, web.


So, they don't seem like they trip over each other. You only get an attribute increase and a natural attack and better armor from the race. Alternatively, you get a host of options from the mutagen. The only crossover is darkvision 60'. I wouldn't see any reason not to let it work.

Cool concept too. Nice synergy.

[Psyren]

Change Shape (Su) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules#TOC-Change-Shape-Su-) is indeed a polymorph effect. The Beastform Mutagen is unclear though - it grants the abilities from those spells, but not the spells themselves. You could make an argument for them stacking.

[squiggit]

The universal monster ability change shape is polymorph, but despite having the same name the skinwalker racial trait doesn't reference or function similarly to the other change shape.

Regardless of that, Mutagen is not a polymorph effect either and while Beastmorph does reference the Beast Shape line, it only does so to list what abilities you can gain and doesn't actually duplicate the spell or [polymorph] you.

[Psyren]

The universal monster ability change shape is polymorph, but despite having the same name the skinwalker racial trait doesn't reference or function similarly to the other change shape.

No, racial abilities and monster abilities are the same, because races are monsters. For instance, Orcs (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/orc.html#orc) have Ferocity and Darkvision - and in fact, on the official Paizo PRD clicking on those abilities takes you to the Universal Monster Abilities page from the Bestiary.



Regardless of that, Mutagen is not a polymorph effect either and while Beastmorph does reference the Beast Shape line, it only does so to list what abilities you can gain and doesn't actually duplicate the spell or [polymorph] you.

Right, this is why I said that part of it was a GM call.