City building from scratch

[Broutchev]

TL;DR: PCs just debarked on an inhabited island with a ship and about 20-30 slaves and decided to construct city there and make slaves citizens.

I need help with how to get ressources about establishing cities and manpower and time for constructing buildings, and what to build...

Dming my standard group, and am now a few sessions in. It's based of Greece and Greek mythos, story began as gladiators and then they were liberated, got hired to do an extermination mission on an island. On the boat, my plans went overboard when one of the PCs (who no one made a background for their character) decided they had no fealty to the city state that hired them. So they basically staged a mutiny, and through non-violence they were able to board the ship and liberate the slaves. Now their plan is to spring a city, and make slaves citizens and all. I have no problem with any of this, since I gave them the loose to do so, and if it go downhill, they can get invaded or somesuch. What I find hard is to find material about constructing a city. Everything I read was about what was already in.

So basically if you playgrounders know of an obscure splatbook, or an hidden chart somewhere it could mean a lot instead of just making things up and forgetting a lot of stuff.

Also if you have stories about it or homeruling, I'd like to hear them, it could help or just funny stories can be good.

[Crake]

All the stuff you need to build a city is in the DMG under chapter 5, campaigns, specifically under world-building: generating towns, which is followed by econimics and politics. It's all right there :smalltongue:

[Broutchev]

I might not have been clear. I went through the chapter 5 again and it's about establishing a campaign or cities, but in that case I need to know, how many time, ressources and workers to build said mill, wall and others.

Probably I'm just overthinking it and should just go for: one (insert time measurement) later without guidelines.

I don't want to just go and say: Hey guys you wanted to build a city, Bam, here's your city can we go back to the plot.

Thanks anyway

[Gnorman]

Stronghold Builder's Guide, perhaps?

[Jowgen]

Seconding SBG. Building a stronghold takes 1 week per 10,000 gp of its total value. For anything simpler than a 1 story building, I'd say a Surivial check to set up a fortified camp suffices.

[Crake]

I might not have been clear. I went through the chapter 5 again and it's about establishing a campaign or cities, but in that case I need to know, how many time, ressources and workers to build said mill, wall and others.

Probably I'm just overthinking it and should just go for: one (insert time measurement) later without guidelines.

I don't want to just go and say: Hey guys you wanted to build a city, Bam, here's your city can we go back to the plot.

Thanks anyway

Oh, my bad, when I saw you say building, I thought you meant from a DM's perspective of putting it together, not an actual in character literal building of a city, in which case, yeah, stronghold builder's guide, as others have said.

[Rangô]

After building, you may need population and relationships. If you're not keen of fill the city creating every single NPC you should take a look at Cityscape book, in fact you could use some of Forgotten Realms such as Waterdeep City of Splendors, it's a great city but I suggest you to pick, for example, the port district only and develop it with your party.

[nyjastul69]

City Works (http://www.amazon.com/Legends-Lairs-Works-Mike-Mearls/dp/1589940970) by Fantasy Flight Games might be worth looking into.

[ThisIsZen]

If you want mechanics for your players to interact with and are willing to look outside of 3.5 for them, this is pretty much the entire point of Pathfinder's Ultimate Campaign Kingdom rules. I think you might get more mileage out of them than you would out of, say, the SBG, simply because the SBG's scope is singular constructions and/or businesses rather than city-scale things, at least as I recall (it's been a while, admittedly, since I read the SBG).

Mind you, on the other hand once you implement the UC Kingdom rules you've pretty much changed the tone/trajectory of your game permanently, unless your PCs cease to be leaders of the city, so ymmv.

[redwizard007]

City Works (http://www.amazon.com/Legends-Lairs-Works-Mike-Mearls/dp/1589940970) by Fantasy Flight Games might be worth looking into.

This is nice for a DM. It doesn't have anything specific to constructing individual buildings.

SBG is about the only thing out there, but it goes into a level of detail that may be going to far. In the past I have used SBG as a base line and hand waved details for all but the most important buildings.

[Gildedragon]

Use craft checks?
I remember hearing a sword cost as much as a farm (probably a lie but a useful one) so have people crating buildings etc. Synergy with engineering Kn...

[Broutchev]

Thanks for all those, I never heard of those books before, apart from cityscape, I'll look into them and adjust for what the PCs intend.

Its probably not gonna be played by all the construction rules, it would be heavy stuff and just painful, but guidelines will be nice. Knowing how much the people can do while the PCs are away...

Thanks again

[ExLibrisMortis]

You can probably use the price of a poor residence (1d4*100 gp to buy, Cityscape p. 34, sidebar) as a guideline. You might call for a DC 10 Craft check to build it, at a base rate of 50-100 gp per day, and a DC 10 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) check, for the design.

On the other end of the spectrum, a fine residence costs 2d8*1000 gp, which probably warrants a DC 15 Craft check to build (from the builders), plus a Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) check at DC 20-25 (for the design), and further Craft checks for decoration.

[Broutchev]

You can probably use the price of a poor residence (1d4*100 gp to buy, Cityscape p. 34, sidebar) as a guideline. You might call for a DC 10 Craft check to build it, at a base rate of 50-100 gp per day, and a DC 10 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) check, for the design.

On the other end of the spectrum, a fine residence costs 2d8*1000 gp, which probably warrants a DC 15 Craft check to build (from the builders), plus a Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) check at DC 20-25 (for the design), and further Craft checks for decoration.

Yeah something like that, I just can't find anything I want, so I'll make do.


And in hindsight, it was probably just for me (read OCD) that I wished to do it right since PCs no matter how intense they wanna build a frikken village, are not gonna go rules lawyer and just straight accept some things has to be made up.

[Coidzor]

Pathfinder would also be a source to go to for a rulership and city-building minigame.

I'd recommend against their Downtime system of building construction unless you're willing to learn it and tweak it, but there's a fair few tweaks of the Kingdom Building rules set that take PC abilities and magic more into account, and you can always play fast and loose and use it as a guideline.

The first thing they'll need to do is figure out how to feed their people and get them at least temporary shelter.

Then the next thing is what to do about the people already living on that island, since you said it was inhabited.

Then after that they can look into establishing farms and securing building materials. If the environment is good for it, then feces and/or straw and/or grass and the soil itself can be used to make adobe or cob or if they spend a lot of time or have magical help/very strong minions, they can make rammed earth constructions. You'll probably look at adobe/cob or wood for your first buildings before fired brick and stone masonry and/or concrete become options.

Of course, depending upon who already lives on that island, that can change matters too.