I need help with an optimized 6th LvL Character Build!

[Darksalvo]

Hello lads. As the title states, I need help with a build. Our DM told us to approach him with the cheesiest builds possible for a PvP encounter, and I wanted some people to help me
find the best combinations.

Somebody else in my team (it's gonna be a PvP encounter, 5v5) is already playing a Frenzied Berserker, so that's out of the question. Our DM also banned the Synthesist, so that's out of the question too.

The character is at 6th level, and ability scores are assigned like this: you have 82 points. Each points allows you to add 1 to an ability score.

Example: 18 Strength = 18 Points, 12 Dex = 12 points.

You can't assign more than 18 points in one score. The ability score increase at 4th level and racial modifiers allow you to go over 18.

The splatbooks that can be used are:

-) Pathfinder Core Rulebook
-) Bestiary
-) Advanced Player's Guide
-) Ultimate Magic
-) Ultimate Combat


We only have 300 GP to spend, which probably means no magic items. Did I forget to mention it's PvP, 5v5?

Give it a go! :smallbiggrin:

[Geddy2112]

The quick and dirty elf wizard.. How low can you dump stats? A minimum of 3? 1? Also, do you get any time to prepare or cast buffs? What will the enviornment be like?

Stats post racial mods:
Str-8
Dex-20
Con-16
Int-20
Wis-12
Cha-3

That leaves 5 points to spend +ability score if you can dump to 3. Put the rest and ability score into wis to max will saves.

Elf-Take the fleet alt race trait, gives you run and +2 to initiative. Elven arrogance gives you +1 to resist enchantments. Retreat magic gives +1 caster level to range and duration of conjuration, and repalces something you won't need

Familiar:Get a rabbit, greensting scorpion, or Compsognathus for your familiar. I like the dino the best, but the scorpion has good poison.

School: Divination, foresight subschool. This gives you +3 to initiative, and 8 free rolls a day to auto take on your next turn. Combat probably won't last more than 8 rounds, so I would use this every time.
Opposed schools:Illusion, conjuration

Feats:Improved initiative, Toughness, either defensive combat training or combat casting
Bonus-knowledge is power arcane discovery. +5 to CMB and CMD

Skills: You only need combat relevant things. Max acrobatics, or at least 3 ranks to fight defensively, just in case. Max fly, climb, swim(if you think there will be water), and perception

Gear: haramaki, +1 AC, 3 gold. Darkwood buckler, 203 gold, +1 AC. Sling& club, free. Sling bullets, 1sp, Spell component pouch, 5sp. Maybe a 1st level wand, or a couple scrolls(you get half price because you can scribe scroll). You can spring for a crossbow if you want

Spells:
Cantrips: Detect magic, touch of fatigue, message. Ray of frost/acid splash-if buff time is allowed, take resistance.
1st lvl:enlarge person, liberating command,snowball,grease, maybe mage armor
2nd lvl: levitate?Bull's strength(maybe cat's grace for more AC), blindness/deafness, hideous laughter, web, create pit
3rd lvl: Haste, dispel magic, fly

By this time, you have a +18 in initiative(5 dex, 4 feat, 4 familiar, 2 racial, 3 arcane school) so you probably go first. Cast haste and your party will win. Use levitate or fly to get airborne so nothing can hurt you. Assign buffs and debuffs/control as needed. Then chip with a sling or cantrip.

[Darksalvo]

Unfortunately the minimum in one ability score is 8. :smallfrown:

Also, some hints were dropped on us: it might take place in enclosed places, maybe even buildings. Is fly still viable in such a situation?

I also do not think we'll have pre-fight time to buff.

[Geddy2112]

Unfortunately the minimum in one ability score is 8. :smallfrown:

Also, some hints were dropped on us: it might take place in enclosed places, maybe even buildings. Is fly still viable in such a situation?

I also do not think we'll have pre-fight time to buff.

Hm, then gotta put the extra points into charisma. It means less will save, but your will saves will be strong anyways, and very strong against enchantment, which are the major ones.

Levitation might be a better choice than flight in enclosed areas. You don't need super mobility, you just need the ability to get out of range of melee characters and characters with reach, so 15 ft off the ground should do it. If the room is not that big, then just stay back and use spells to control/aid your party. If you can buff your side and debuff the enemy you basically win. You can take another 3rd level spell of choice, or double down on dispel magic. If you don't have time to buff then don't have any spells that take longer than an action to cast, and consider eschewing buff spells for damage/control.

[Necromancy]

High stats and no gear? Dwarf tetori monk will rule all

[Extra Anchovies]

If you can ensure that the fight will be outdoors, you might be able to win through attrition. With only 300 gp per character, Boots of the Earth are out of reach, and AFAIK it's the cheapest source of infinite healing in Pathfinder.

One level of Slayer with the Sniper archetype lets you halve all range increment penalties with bows. Take Far Shot, and you no longer suffer range increment penalties at all, because -1/2 rounds down to -0. If you can see it, you can shoot it, up to the maximum range of your weapon. That's ten times the range increment, which for most bows is well outside the maximum range of a non-Enlarged Long-range spell at CL 6 - and who takes Enlarge Spell?

A second level of Slayer lets you pick up the Blood Reader talent, which lets you see the hit points of your studied target.

Finish up with four levels of Beastmaster Ranger. Take a Roc as your animal companion, and play a small race so you can use it as a mount. Roc companions have a fly speed of 80 feet, comfortably faster than most other sources of flight at 6th level. The only things that match its speed that I know of are the Bird and Dimorphodon companions, and both of them are smaller and much less combat-capable, so shooting them out of the air shouldn't be much of a problem.

Put a rank into Craft (Bows) to get your weapon and ammunition at 1/3 price.

Locate the enemy group, cycle through each as your studied target to know their starting hit points, and focus them down one at a time, starting with the squishiest. Eventually the other party will catch on and relocate to a position where you can't hit them from outside their range, but by the time they do you'll have burned through a chunk of their hit points and/or spells without spending any of your own, and maybe even gotten a kill.

[upho]

So the synth is banned but not full casters or master summoners? :smallconfused:

If that's true, I'd try a master summoner to completely flood the battlefield with small earth elementals (or whatever suits the situation), allowing you to float around invisible, eating popcorn while watching your little stone-men bash the opposition to oblivion, perhaps flinging a haste, grease or glitterdust here or there as needed.

A halfling would be something like:
Str 6 (I assume the minimum 8 is before racial modifiers)
Dex 20
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 14
Cha 21 (level increase here)

Feats
1 Improved Initiative
2 Augment Summoning (archetype bonus feat)
3 Superior Summoning
5 Spell Focus (conjuration) for a little boost to grease and glitterdust, but not strictly needed

Recommended Spells
Haste, glitterdust, grease, invisibility, fly or levitate, create popcorn :smallbiggrin:

At 6th level, you'd be able to summon 4-8 augmented small earth elementals with two standard actions 5/day (or 2-4 with one standard action 10/day). These guys can seek out enemies with tremorsense and a burrow speed, and Power Attack those on the ground with a +8 to hit for 1d6+11 damage. Pretty damn nasty considering you'll have an average of 6 of them up and running. And since your summons remain for 6 minutes, you'll probably be able to summon them before battle (if any magic at all can be cast).

With a suitable trait your unbuffed initiative will be +11, which should be about as good as the best of the opposition unless they have class feature boosts. If you go human or half-elf, you can increase that to +14 by exchanging Spell Focus for Eldritch Heritage and a bloodline familiar granting +4 (but you'll also have an 18 Dex rather than 20).

[Necromancy]

OK here's yon build

Level 6 Dwarf Tetori Monk

STR 18
CON 12+2
DEX18
INT 8
WIS 18+2
CHA 8-2

Racials +2 sv vs spells, SLAs, Poison, some other crap I don't care about, etc...
Class Abilities - stunning fist, Graceful Grappler, etc
Bonus Feats - Imp Grapple, Greater Grapple, Stunning Pin
Selected Feats - Weapon Focus Grapple, 2 free slots

HP - 48 (favored class bonus)
Armor Class +20/16/20
Fort +7
Reflex +9 Evasion
Will +10

Speed 40

Unarmed Strike, +8, 1d8+4
Grapple CMB = 15 (+5 bonus to maintain)
Grapple CMD = 32
(calculated at bottom)

Ok your average fighter build is your toughest opponent (assuming nobody makes a grappler style to fight you). He will have +12 to hit with weapon, 11 CMB, 23 CMD

you'll need a 8 to hit that CMD but only a 3 to hold on to him every round
he will need a nat 20 to break free on his own. In the grapple he will be at -2 to hit you and restricted to 1 handed weapons so hopefully he only has a 2-handed to cry on

I usually have multiple sashes to use as ropes, tie up your fighter and he's done. Otherwise you get to make 2 maintain checks a round and use them to do unarmed damage, drag over cliffs, drag past enemies for AOO's, etc.

As for casters, etc. if you grab them, they're going to need a nat 20 escape check to live.


Total CMB = level+str+Imp Grapple+Greater Grapple+Focus
Total CMD = 10+level+str+dex+Imp Grapple+Monk+wis
6+4+2+2+1 = 15 CMB
10+6+4+4+2+1+5 = 32 CMD

[Rhedyn]

Hmmm I would go Half-Orc Paladin

18 strength + 1 Level + 2 racial
12 dex
14 con
10 int
10 wis
18 cha

High stats give you great AC and lots of health. I have a hunch casters may get shut down in this situation. You can't afford the best armor yet, but lay on hands and divine grace makes up for it.

[Darksalvo]

Thanks to every single one of you for your answers! They're all great and I'm having a hard time deciding which class I should play :smallbiggrin:

[upho]

Thanks to every single one of you for your answers! They're all great and I'm having a hard time deciding which class I should play :smallbiggrin:Having played quite a few PvP (1v1 and 2v2) arena fights in both the 3.5 and 4e forums and IRL games, here are some of the "golden rules" to keep in mind IME:

Don't be a target - One single DPR-focused PC can one-shot you unless you have some means to reliably negate damage completely and instantly (notably mirror image). Two or more PCs able to focus their attention on you will virtually always kill you immediately unless you're able to act between their turns or, again, have some means to reliably negate damage completely and instantly. At this early level in PF this is pretty much regardless of how awesome passive defenses (AC, hp, saves, energy resistance etc.) your build may have. In effect, stuff that makes you harder or impossible to target are absolutely vital, making especially stuff like mirror image and forms of invisibility, and to a lesser extent stuff like displacement and fly speed, incredibly valuable. So perhaps not surprisingly, most martial classes are screwed.
Have awesome targeting ability - The other side of the above. Ask yourself how your build (and especially your party) will find and kill opponents who are under the effects of invisibility, displacement, fly and mirror image, before they can put you out of the fight. Reliable targeting abilities like see invisibility and/or senses not relying on sight are crucial, as are good ranged offense options. Summon spells are often great for this, offering creatures with senses otherwise unavailable. And melee is typically even less effective than normal. In general, martial classes are screwed in this regard as well.
Action economy wins - Just as when fighting DM-controlled monsters, the more actions you have at your disposal in comparison to the opposition the greater are your odds. This makes especially summon spells awesome in PvP combat, arguably even more so than in normal combat. And haste is of course great, as usual.
Flexibility and versatility wins - While great team tactics are invaluable, as always, the better your PC can handle things on his own and fulfill the combat roles of fallen party members, the better will your chances be. Again, summon spells are awesome in this regard, offering a multitude of abilities and roles a single PC otherwise cannot possibly cover.
Initiative is everything or just "good" - All PvP fights I've played have the players roll initiative as soon as the match starts when the teams are still far away from each other, way before the PCs can see or target their enemies. This typically makes winning initiative a good thing, since you may get more turns in before enemy contact, and often more options for your team's internal turn order by delaying. However, if for some weird reason your fights will use the standard initiative rules, meaning you roll upon first contact, winning initiative will typically translate into winning the fight, not to mention if the surprise rules are also used (ie try to convince the DM to not do this, it quickly gets boring).

And of course, really plan your build with your other party members, if at all possible. And I mean go through every step of each situation you're likely to find yourselves in, in addition to sorting out things like preferable turn order, best casting order of buff spells etc. If you can do this better than the opposition, you'll still have a good chance at winning even should your builds happen to be weaker on average.

Hope you find this useful. And good luck!

[Darksalvo]

All right, lads. Thanks, again, to everyone for their help.

Though we have a problem. The DM couldn't make up his mind and has, yesterday, deciced to restrict everything to the Core Manual. :smallannoyed:

Everything else remains the same, but it means we lost access to Ultimate Combat, etc... could anybody post an updated, core only build?