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Spectre9000
2016-03-15, 04:36 PM
Pact Sworn
The archetypal Pact Sworn combines powerful eldritch knowledge gained through a pact with some otherwordly patron, with masterful martial prowess that all fighters possess, channeling his powers into his eldritch weapon to devastating and terrible effect.






Pact Sworn
Fighter Level
Feature
Cantrips Known
Spells Known
Spell Slots
Level
Spell Slots


3rd Pact Magic, Pact Patron, Eldritch Weapon 2 2 1 2


4th - 2 2 1 2


5th - 2 2 1 2


6th - 2 3 1 2


7th Eldritch Channeling 2 3 2 2


8th - 2 3 2 2


9th - 2 4 2 2


10th Shroud of Agathys 2 4 2 2


11th - 3 4 2 3


12th - 3 4 2 3


13th - 3 5 3 3


14th - 3 5 3 3


15th Eldritch Fury 3 5 3 3


16th - 3 5 3 3


17th - 3 6 3 3


18th Tainted Blood 3 6 3 3


19th - 3 6 4 3


20th - 3 7 4 3




Features


At Fighter Level 3, when you choose the Pact Sworn Martial Archetype, your arcane research and the magic bestowed on you by your patron have given you facility with spells. In the Player's Handbook, see chapter 10 for the general rules of spellcasting and chapter 11 for the warlock spell list.

Cantrips
You know two cantrips of your choice from the warlock spell list. You learn one additional warlock cantrip of your choice at 10th level, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Pact Sworn table.

Spell Slots
The Pact Sworn table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. The table also shows what the level of those slots is; all of your spell slots are the same level. To cast one of your warlock spells of 1st level or higher, you must expend a spell slot. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a short or long rest. For example, when you are 8th level, you have two 2nd-level spell slots. To cast the 1st-level spell thunderwave, you must spend one of those slots, and you cast it as a 2nd-level spell.

Spells Known of 1st Level or Higher
At 3rd level, you know two 1st-level spells of your choice from the warlock spell list. The Spells Known column of the Pact Sworn table shows when you learn more warlock spells of your choice of 1st level and higher. A spell you choose must be of a level no higher than what’s shown in the table's Slot Level column for your Pact Sworn level. When you reach 8th level, for example, you learn a new warlock spell, which can be 1st or 2nd level.

Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the warlock spells you know and replace it with another spell from the warlock spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have Pact Sworn spell slots.

Spellcasting Ability
Charisma is your spellcasting ability for your warlock spells, so you use your Charisma whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Charisma modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a warlock spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one. Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier




Upon taking the Pact Sworn Archetype at 3rd level, you choose one Warlock Patron to be your Pact Patron. You may learn spells from that Patrons Expanded Spells list.



Starting at 3rd level when you choose the Pact Sworn Archetype, you can use your action to create an eldritch weapon in your empty hand. You can choose the form that this melee weapon takes each time you create it (see chapter 5 for weapon options). You are proficient with it while you wield it. This weapon counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage. Your eldritch weapon disappears if it is more than 5 feet away from you for 1 minute or more. It also disappears if you use this feature more than twice, if you dismiss the weapon (no action required), or if you die.

You can transform a magic weapon into your eldritch weapon by performing a special ritual while you hold the weapon. You perform the ritual over the course of 1 hour, which can be done during a short rest. You can then dismiss the weapon, shunting it into an extradimensional space, and it appears whenever you create your pact weapon thereafter. The weapon ceases being your pact weapon if you die, if you perform the 1-hour ritual on a third weapon, or if you use a 1-hour ritual to break your bond to it. The weapon appears at your feet if it is in the extradimensional space when the bond breaks.



At Fighter Level 7, after having chosen the Pact Sworn Martial Archetype, you gain the ability to channel otherwordly energy into your eldritch weapon. As an action on your turn, you make a melee weapon attack and as part of that attack you can channel a cantrip into your eldritch weapon, allowing you to cast it as if from the weapon. This cantrip has a range of touch, if it didn't already, and makes melee spell attacks in place of ranged spell attacks. As a Bonus Action, if you have a second, different eldritch weapon, you may make an attack with it as if you had taken the Attack Action as per the two-weapon fighting rules.



At Fighter level 10, after having chosen the Pact Sworn Martial Archetype, your patron bestows upon you the ability to manifest magical ice that coats and protects you. While you have temporary hit points, you gain resistance to non-magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage, as well as resistance to cold. Additionally spells and effects which grant temporary hit points now grant additional temporary hit point equal to your dexterity ability modifier plus your charisma ability modifier, up to double the initial temporary hit points granted by the spell or effect. Additionally, your footsteps leave a thin layer of magical ice that dissipate after exactly 1 minute regardless of weather and climate.



At Fighter level 15, after having chosen the Pact Sworn Martial Archetype, you learn to momentarily absorb the life force of your enemies. When you use an Action Surge, every melee attack that hits heals you for an amount equal to your charisma ability modifier.



At Fighter level 18, after having chosen the Pact Sworn Martial Archetype, otherworldy energies writhe within you, altering your physical being in unfathomable ways. Every time you are hit by a melee weapon attack, you deal psychic damage to the attacker equal to your constitution ability modifier. Additionally, when you choose to use Eldritch Channeling, as part of that same action you can choose to lose a number of your current hit points equal to your constitution modifier. Doing so causes your life force to unnaturally seep out from you enveloping your weapon and dealing psychic damage equal to your constitution modifier on each hit it or the channeled cantrip makes. You also take this damage directly to your health bypassing temporary hit points and any other effects. You also ignore any damage resistances the creature had when calculating how much damage you take.

Additionally, the creature hit must make a Wisdom Save against your spellcasting DC or be feared for 3 rounds, or until it takes damage. The creature may attempt to make another Wisdom saving throw at the end of each of its subsequent turns. Upon making the save, taking damage, or at the end of this effect the creature becomes immune to this for 24 hours.

Spectre9000
2016-03-15, 05:32 PM
This post is Reserved.

Spectre9000
2016-03-15, 07:20 PM
Reserved for feedback notes and changes.



Please feel free to comment and critique. I'm sure this isn't perfect, and I want to make it just that, so please give me feedback, thanks.



Feedback Notes:

Need to consider 7 ASI Fighters get when balancing, against MC and normal ASI available to classes.
Need more Fluff with abilities
Consider Tweaking Spellcasting progression
Fix Fear cheese and make Tainted Blood a more serious decision.



Change Log

Set max number of D4's to 3D4 on Eldritch Channeling. Might reconsider changing this to instead of adding D4's, start at 1D4, then increase to 1D8, then 1D12 to reduce dice rolling, and lower average damage.
Set minimum for Tainted Blood to 10 Current Health Points.
Creature is now immune to Tainted Bloods fear effect for 24 hours after it ends, or it makes a save.
Halved damage dealt upon receiving damage. Significant Reduction in damage.
Reduced Damage dealt from sacrificing your own current hit points from twice as much to half as much. Significant reduction in damage, and a much more serious choice. Might be too much.
Removed Force damage scaling on your eldritch weapon, in favor of revamping Eldritch Channeling and Tainted Blood.
Eldritch Channeling is now very different with new functionality, vaguely similar to the Eldritch Knight's War Magic. This replaces the Divine Smite ability Eldritch Channeling once had, and is part of a revamp of the intent of the previous Force Damage scaling.
Shroud of Agathys modified to have additional temporary hit points scale off dexterity ability modifier and charisma ability modifier to a limit equal to the initial temporary hit points granted by the triggering spell or effect.
Added fluff to Shroud of Agathys
Gluttonous Strike now renamed Eldritch Fury. Also, now procs only on Action Surge and scales 1:1 with charisma ability modifier at level 15.
Changed up Tainted Blood a bit. Now scales off Constitution, and dealt damage is reciprocated to you. Also made it usable with Eldritch Channeling. This is also part of the rework of Force Damage to keep the intent.
Fear effect of Tainted Blood is now also negated by the creature taking damage.
Spellcasting now matches EK progression.

ZenBear
2016-03-15, 08:53 PM
Extremely OP.

I'm all for making "multiclass" subclasses, I made ones for Fighter/Cleric and Rogue/Cleric myself. I like the idea of granting the Blade Pact weapon and Pact Magic. Where it falls apart is all the custom features.

Adding CHA mod force damage at level 3 is huge. On a Fighter that can attack 4-9 times in a single turn by lvl 20 this stacks to absurd levels, and that's just the first layer.

Eldritch Channeling is the second layer of absurd damage potential. Xd4 per attack for one weapon means at high level for the cost of one spell slot you get 16d4 bonus damage, or 32d4 with Action Surge, on top of the 4-8 weapon dice + STR + CHA. That's way too much damage and way too many dice rolls. This isn't Shadowrun.

Resistance to b/p/s damage from non-magical weapons is the War Domain capstone that comes online at level 17. Getting this at level 10 with cold resistance to boot and bonus efficacy on temp hp effects is way overboard.

Gluttonous Strike is too strong on a Fighter for the same reason as the other features; too many attacks. This subclass not only has the highest burst in the game but also the best sustain.

Tainted Blood gives the current burst damage and self-sustain champion some of the best and most reliable control in the game. Oh, and more damage, because it needs more of that.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but the issues are glaring. Like, J.J. Abrams lense flare glaring.

Spectre9000
2016-03-16, 01:16 AM
Extremely OP.

I'm all for making "multiclass" subclasses, I made ones for Fighter/Cleric and Rogue/Cleric myself. I like the idea of granting the Blade Pact weapon and Pact Magic. Where it falls apart is all the custom features.

Adding CHA mod force damage at level 3 is huge. On a Fighter that can attack 4-9 times in a single turn by lvl 20 this stacks to absurd levels, and that's just the first layer.


It can't exceed your Charisma. It does not give you your charisma bonus at level 3. At level 3 you get 1 additional Damage. You gain more than that from a single level dip into Barbarian, not to mention damage resistance. It isn't till level 17 it comes even with the level 12 Invocation from Pact of the Blade. Yes, the fighter can attack multiple times, but the scaling is slower than any other class plus it still requires you to invest heavily into Charisma, which can take away from Str/Dex damage to weaps or Con survivability, which I think is a fair trade.



Eldritch Channeling is the second layer of absurd damage potential. Xd4 per attack for one weapon means at high level for the cost of one spell slot you get 16d4 bonus damage, or 32d4 with Action Surge, on top of the 4-8 weapon dice + STR + CHA. That's way too much damage and way too many dice rolls. This isn't Shadowrun.


Considering you have a very limited number of spell slots, the fact you can only do it a couple turns I feel is enough to limit this greatly. You can nova quite well on those turns, yes, but in comparison to the Paladin being able to eventually do 5 attack at 4d8 each for 20d8 additional damage, I still feel this is in line. It might be a little on the strong side and might consider scaling it back some, I don't feel it's overwhelmingly OP. PAM Bladelock 12/Paladin 2/Sorc 6 gets 3 Weapon dice + Str + Cha + 12D8 for multiple turns. If you wanna MC Action Surge in there too, the damage grows to 6 Weapon Dice + Str + Cha + 24D8. Furthermore, you, again, don't gain + Cha to your attacks with the Eldritch Weapon feature.



Resistance to b/p/s damage from non-magical weapons is the War Domain capstone that comes online at level 17. Getting this at level 10 with cold resistance to boot and bonus efficacy on temp hp effects is way overboard.


You get this from level 1 dip into Barbarian, minus the cold resist, which you can get from a racial or other source pretty easily. The fact War Clerics get it at 17 and Barbarians already get it at level 1, by your logic, means Barbarians are the most OP class in game. Oh and the resistance Barbarians get includes against magic weapons as well.



Gluttonous Strike is too strong on a Fighter for the same reason as the other features; too many attacks. This subclass not only has the highest burst in the game but also the best sustain.

Fighters (and this obviously a fighter) and Paladins both get ways to heal themselves for significant amounts on short rest. I was looking to try and implement something with less immediate healing power but more long term sustainability than those options, and entice players to keep attacking hoping they can heal enough to stay alive through the next round instead of simply running away as most do now. Maybe I could have this replace Second Wind or something, but I still want something that achieves that feel. Also, whereas you can use Lay on Hands and Second Wind without regards to your enemy, you actually have to hit your enemy to gain this heal. Against a high AC target, you're not gonna be hitting as easily and the healing is gonna decrease significantly form this feature. It can definitely use some tweaking, but I wanna keep that feeling I mentioned earlier. There are other abilities that give health on killing a creature, but I wanted this to be more about the heat of battle than simply keeping the weakest creature around until you need a heal. Finally, Elder Champion (Paladin, Oath of the Ancients) gives 10 HP regened at the start of your turn no matter what.



Tainted Blood gives the current burst damage and self-sustain champion some of the best and most reliable control in the game. Oh, and more damage, because it needs more of that.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but the issues are glaring. Like, J.J. Abrams lense flare glaring.

There are plenty of high level class abilities that produce fear in surrounding enemies. This only does it to an enemy you hit and use the ability on. It also comes at the cost of your own health. It can put out some good burst damage, but you'll be sacrificing your own health to gain that. Maybe the ratio needs tweaking still, but I disagree with completely dismissing it as OP. There's also a limit of 3 turns where other fear effects can last a full minute (Draconic Presence, Avenging Angel, Dark Delirium, etc).




Overall, the subclass put together probably is too strong as it currently is, but to say that each feature on it's own is absurdly OP is, I think, an absurd belief on its own, especially when several of your critiques are stuff you can gain with 1-3 levels in other classes. You also offered nothing of real value with regards to alternatives and fixes, and are essentially simply saying "Too OP, this sucks." You give no feedback on how you might go about bringing it more in line.

RakiReborn
2016-03-16, 04:55 AM
Not able to give in-depth feedback, but i can give some pointers you might want to look at.
The individual features are strong, even of they are not OP. All the features together give them a lot of different strenghts, kind of picking the good ones from others and sticking them together. All those together are what makes this quite a bit stronger than all the other archetypes, which usually get some ribbon-like feature, or scaling stuff. Even if it is just the EK with a cantrip+attack feature that goes to a lvlspell+attack (i think, afb). Try not to balance it against other class features as much, but start with balancing it against the other archetypes first.
An other thing is that you keep balancing it against a dip. Keep in mind that you can get strong things, but you give up earlier progression and your late-game fighter features with it. Even a 1lvl dip in barbarian lets you lose your 4th attack.
One more thing is balancing it against the combined features from MC combos. They trade in ASI's, especially with three classes. Keep that in mind with balancing it against them - they need to leave some stats lower. The fighter gets 7 ASI's, so it can get more stats higher anyway.
This is all i can give you now. Hope my 2 cets help a bit :)

Flashy
2016-03-16, 06:49 AM
I think the biggest change I'd make is pegging the spell slot progression more closely to the standard Warlock progression. Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster end their adventuring careers as strict 7th level spellcasters (though with more spells known), while this has more spell slots and fewer spells known than a 7th level Warlock. Giving it the standard EK spells known and shifting the slot progression to the 1/3rd standard where you treat it as though the Fighter had gone Warlock every third level would help a great deal.

Was there any particular reason for the divergence from that 1/3rd caster progression here?

zeek0
2016-03-16, 07:47 AM
I like the concept of this class - it is for folk that want more blade in their blade pact warlock.

I agree with Flash concerning 1/3 caster progression.

I also have concerns about Shroud of Agathys, and they are a few.
- While cold resist may fit in with Fey/GOO, it does not fit with a Fiend pact
- You tack on the increase of temporary hit points, making a great ability even better. The increase of temp HP is awkward, considering how few methods there are to gain it. It would improve the quality of Armor of Agathys, False Life, and... thats all I can think of.

Some of my favorite class features are non-combat, or have non-combat applications. Spirit Seeker, Student of War, Know Your Enemy, Second-Story Work, and Timeless Body are all features that are really cool, but have minimal effect in combat. I would love to see something like that here, instead of increases to damage/durability. Perhaps it can focus on spells, or the nature of having a pact with a greater being.

Keep up the good work.

ZenBear
2016-03-16, 10:17 AM
Barbarians have to Rage to gain these benefits, which has a limited number of uses and a short duration that can be made shorter by smart enemies or bad luck. Your subclass has them always on. Huge difference.

Other classes can cause Fear in an area, but it costs a spell slot or limited use class feature. Your subclass can sacrifice 1 hp to deal 2 bonus damage and cause Fear every round as long as they have 2 hp or more. On a Fighter with d10 HD and a constant self-heal on hit, you will be able to do this for a very long time.

Spectre9000
2016-03-16, 10:22 AM
Not able to give in-depth feedback, but i can give some pointers you might want to look at.
The individual features are strong, even of they are not OP. All the features together give them a lot of different strenghts, kind of picking the good ones from others and sticking them together. All those together are what makes this quite a bit stronger than all the other archetypes, which usually get some ribbon-like feature, or scaling stuff. Even if it is just the EK with a cantrip+attack feature that goes to a lvlspell+attack (i think, afb). Try not to balance it against other class features as much, but start with balancing it against the other archetypes first.
An other thing is that you keep balancing it against a dip. Keep in mind that you can get strong things, but you give up earlier progression and your late-game fighter features with it. Even a 1lvl dip in barbarian lets you lose your 4th attack.
One more thing is balancing it against the combined features from MC combos. They trade in ASI's, especially with three classes. Keep that in mind with balancing it against them - they need to leave some stats lower. The fighter gets 7 ASI's, so it can get more stats higher anyway.
This is all i can give you now. Hope my 2 cets help a bit :)

You make some good points, especially about Fighters getting 7 ASI. That is a real balancing issue as those can be used for more stats, or lots of feats whilst still getting stats. I do need to rethink things surrounding that, definitely. Thanks for the input.



I like the concept of this class - it is for folk that want more blade in their blade pact warlock.

I agree with Flash concerning 1/3 caster progression.


To Flashy's point and yours, the reason I did it to 4th level is because Warlocks also progress to 9th level spells. Since they do, I am actually still keeping with the EK progression pretty closely. Warlocks get their Mystic Arcanum which gives the spells of 6th-9th level at normal caster progression. That's why they themselves get 5th levels spells at the same time as other casters. The difference is, you can cast less spells per rest, but regain slots on a short rest. The Mystic Arcanum simply brings the Warlock back in line with other casters for later level spells; casting per long rest. I might reduce the number of casting



I also have concerns about Shroud of Agathys, and they are a few.
- While cold resist may fit in with Fey/GOO, it does not fit with a Fiend pact
- You tack on the increase of temporary hit points, making a great ability even better. The increase of temp HP is awkward, considering how few methods there are to gain it. It would improve the quality of Armor of Agathys, False Life, and... thats all I can think of.


Actually Fiend Pact specifically gives Fire Shield, which will grant you resistance to cold, so thematically I don't think it's too far fetched. Also, When you use fire shield you're gonna wanna use Chill Shield (for fire resistance, unless something resistant to cold), which continues the theme of a frost covered dark fighter I was going for.

As to temporary HP, there aren't that many warlock spells that give it (though Armor of Agathys is pretty awesome and what I mainly focused on), but there are a wider variety of temp hp class features that you could MC for, which keeps with the spirit of EK as level 7 is also a MC point.



Some of my favorite class features are non-combat, or have non-combat applications. Spirit Seeker, Student of War, Know Your Enemy, Second-Story Work, and Timeless Body are all features that are really cool, but have minimal effect in combat. I would love to see something like that here, instead of increases to damage/durability. Perhaps it can focus on spells, or the nature of having a pact with a greater being.

Keep up the good work.

Hmm, I'll try to think up some fluff abilities and work them in, perhaps replacing some of the above. I was more focused on combat than RP when I made this, so I'll reconsider that. Thanks for the suggestion.

Spectre9000
2016-03-16, 10:33 AM
Barbarians have to Rage to gain these benefits, which has a limited number of uses and a short duration that can be made shorter by smart enemies or bad luck. Your subclass has them always on. Huge difference.

Other classes can cause Fear in an area, but it costs a spell slot or limited use class feature. Your subclass can sacrifice 1 hp to deal 2 bonus damage and cause Fear every round as long as they have 2 hp or more. On a Fighter with d10 HD and a constant self-heal on hit, you will be able to do this for a very long time.

Barbarians, I believe, are gonna constantly be raged. It's kinda the whole point of the class. Also, this gives you less damage than Rage initially, and doesn't equal it's damage till other classes have surpassed it without needing to rage. The only thing I could see this being more powerful than Rage in, is that Rage requires a long rest to regain your rages. Eventually however, I think it's gonna be pretty rare that you're gonna need more than 6 rages per long rest (or the capstone unlimited rages). I liked the scaling of Barbarians, which is why I included this and am likening it to that, but if you want another example, Rogues Sneak Attack does way more damage per turn and has usage amount limitations, and there are several ways to gain advantage on attacks to always be able to Sneak Attack.

You make a good point about the Fear being cheesed off 1 HP. I'm gonna tweak this ability to account for that and make it a more serious decision for the player.

Spectre9000
2016-03-16, 02:41 PM
I've made a lot of significant changes to this sub-class, that I feel still keep with its intent, including revamping force damage into a more Eldritch Knight style War Magic feat and modifying several other features. There is also now scaling off Dex, Con, and Cha to assist with the 7 ASI issue, and the Eldritch Channeling now adds another action type and largely replaces the force damage modifier and negates the scaling on attacks that fighters get. It also reopens up two-weapon fighting as a more viable choice. This revamp will deal significantly less damage than previously, but with all the features together having damage stacking on damage, it dealt OP amounts of damage, so scaling that down isn't a bad thing.

Let me know how you like the revamp.

zeek0
2016-03-16, 11:23 PM
I've made a lot of significant changes to this sub-class, that I feel still keep with its intent, including revamping force damage into a more Eldritch Knight style War Magic feat and modifying several other features. There is also now scaling off Dex, Con, and Cha to assist with the 7 ASI issue, and the Eldritch Channeling now adds another action type and largely replaces the force damage modifier and negates the scaling on attacks that fighters get. It also reopens up two-weapon fighting as a more viable choice. This revamp will deal significantly less damage than previously, but with all the features together having damage stacking on damage, it dealt OP amounts of damage, so scaling that down isn't a bad thing.

Let me know how you like the revamp.

I like the changes; good work.

However, I'm still confused with your decision to give higher level spells at earlier levels. For example, EK and AT get 4th level spell access at 19, and your class gets access at 17.

Spectre9000
2016-03-17, 01:41 AM
I like the changes; good work.

However, I'm still confused with your decision to give higher level spells at earlier levels. For example, EK and AT get 4th level spell access at 19, and your class gets access at 17.

Yea... thats cause you almost never make it that far in level and I would like to those who might play this sub-class to actually have a chance of enjoying 4th level spells... That being said, it probably does need to be tuned back to EK levels, to be balanced with it. I did it more out of a personal dislike and disagreement of the EK progression than anything else.

PotatoGolem
2016-03-18, 08:45 AM
This really needs to be brought in line with other 1/3 casters for two reasons. One, it's too strong as is. Two, multiclass ing with warlock (which you definitely would want to do for invocations) gets confusing as all hell given that you can't just calculate a multiclass pact magic level.

Spectre9000
2016-03-18, 11:28 AM
This really needs to be brought in line with other 1/3 casters for two reasons. One, it's too strong as is. Two, multiclass ing with warlock (which you definitely would want to do for invocations) gets confusing as all hell given that you can't just calculate a multiclass pact magic level.

It matches EK progression now.

PotatoGolem
2016-03-19, 01:54 AM
Slot progression should also be 1/3 warlock, ie one slot until level 6 and so on. Basically, every three pact sworn levels should be equivalent to one warlock level