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Zaeron
2007-06-19, 08:41 PM
Hey there everyone.

I've got some quick questions for a homebrew world I'm working on, concerning class balance.

I've made some changes to the wizard - effectively, nonspecialized wizards have been completely removed, and wizards no longer gain bonus spells for being specialized. And they no longer gain bonus feats. However, they do get new class abilities based on their specialization. I think these changes will make wizards slightly less powerful, but also more flavorful.

In the same vein I want to make some alterations to the melee classes of the game. Fighters, Rangers, Barbarians, Paladins, Rogues and Monks especially. First off, Two Weapon Fighting will become a single feat, instead of a chain. Second, I will be adding another feat, Ambidexterity, which allows you to ignore the penalty to damage on offhand attacks, and allows you to power attack at the normal x1 instead of x.5 with your offhand. I think that this feat, plus the removal of the Two Weapon Fighting chain, will make TWF more viable in combat.

However, I would like to add some more power to all of the melee classes. For the ranger/barbarian/paladin/rogue, I was thinking simply a bonus feat progression, perhaps once every 5 levels, starting at 1st. (I.E. 1st, 5th, 10th...) However, that still leaves both the fighter and monk, arguably the two weakest classes in the game.

Does anybody have some fairly simple (easily implimented) ways to increase the power of the fighter and monk without totally outstripping the other classes? I don't need a huge power increase, I just want to add a little more oomph to them.

Any help is most appreciated.

Damionte
2007-06-19, 08:57 PM
Were you aiming for the homebrew forums and like accidently posted in the wrong one?

Zaeron
2007-06-19, 09:03 PM
I hadn't even thought to post there instead. It seemed less to do with homebrew and more to do with a variant on a standard class, which it seems like is all that is talked about in this section of the board.

If I've posted in the wrong section, I apologise. I'm fairly certain I need a mod to move the post though, yes?

Gavin Sage
2007-06-19, 09:06 PM
Make the general casting time for spells a full round action, with other respective lengthings for say Quicken. Gives the opposition a whole round to damage the mage and fizzle spells. (Maybe an exception for Evocation/blasting since no one finds actually damaging your opponents broken)

Simply cutting down on spells per day while not exactly good, most broken combos do not rely on that many spells. And don't involve all require a wide enough range for specialization to bar. Better to have them not be able to learn as many spells in the first place. No auto learning of spells (over maybe 5th level) would be a good start, combined with DMs not letting say Time Stop be availible.

The_Werebear
2007-06-19, 09:10 PM
Best way to really do it: Scrap the the standard classes and go with ToB. Also, find the Fighter and Paladin as they should be on the homebrew forums. Those might help out too.

Finally, the best way I thought of for nerfing full spellcasters was to give them the bard's spells per day. That is right, topping them off at Sixth level Spells. What I worry is that it still wouldn't work well enough to set everyone more equal.

Zaeron
2007-06-19, 09:12 PM
Make the general casting time for spells a full round action, with other respective lengthings for say Quicken. Gives the opposition a whole round to damage the mage and fizzle spells. (Maybe an exception for Evocation/blasting since no one finds actually damaging your opponents broken)

Simply cutting down on spells per day while not exactly good, most broken combos do not rely on that many spells. And don't involve all require a wide enough range for specialization to bar. Better to have them not be able to learn as many spells in the first place. No auto learning of spells (over maybe 5th level) would be a good start, combined with DMs not letting say Time Stop be availible.

Hm, that's all pretty good advice, and all stuff I considered, but.. I was more interested in providing a buff to melee classes than any nerfs more than what I've done so far to the casting classes. Any suggestions along those lines?

Raum
2007-06-19, 10:09 PM
One alternative to making spell casting take longer is giving the non-casting classes something to do with swift and immediate actions. Probably best to give different abilities at different levels, but here are some suggestions.
Barbarian:
~level 5, swift action to make an additional 5' step or an additional attack.
~level 15, immediate action to do above
Bard:
~level 10, "quicken song" (use bardic song as a swift action)
Fighter:
~level 5, swift action to make an additional 5' step or an additional attack.
~level 15, immediate action to do above
Monk:
~level 5, additional 5' step as an immediate action
~level 10, stunning fist, grapple, disarm or trip (whichever bonus feats they've taken) as a swift action
Rogue:
~level 5, "quicken skill" (take a -5 penalty to use a standard action skill as swift)

Just a few ideas and no where near comprehensive. As for the paladin and ranger, I don't know if I'd do some thing similar for them or not. They're already preparation casters with the potential of learning swift or immediate spells.

Gavin Sage
2007-06-19, 11:18 PM
Hm, that's all pretty good advice, and all stuff I considered, but.. I was more interested in providing a buff to melee classes than any nerfs more than what I've done so far to the casting classes. Any suggestions along those lines?

Ultimately magic is still very dominant. ToB instead of addressing that issue simply gives fighters magic, however it hides it with knock-off fluff. I think this misses the point since I've always felt a fair number of people simply don't like having to deal with using spells. So how do you buff up fighting without giving them magic?

First off I'd increase their mobility. Both iniative and movement rates, as well as adding to options for dealing with obstacles. Make fighters faster to act due to their combat hardened focus or whatever. That way you have better chance of closing in and doing damage before the mage gets off a spell.

Second would be introduce a way to lower opponents mobility. Don't have fighters dance all across the map without being able to bring their Full Round Attack into play. Something along the line of where if dealt damage a creature is unable to both move and act in their next round. For a possible explanation, the fighting man is skilled at making his strikes unbalance opponents and thus they have to recover, taking time and thus the effect. You have multiple attacks, if they aren't put to use thats major class features going to waste.

Third would be increased defenses against magic and other weird abilities. One is in the form of better saves, such as giving the Fighter a "medium" save in Will between their Fort and Reflex to shore up that weak point. But also ways to deal with effects that get threw saving throws. Like for ability damage, perhaps an extraordinary ability where you select one stat and when any draining would effect that, the effect would be cut in half. Even after whatever evasions may be allowed in the spell description.

Beyond that look at better feat chains and feats, and perhas make them free additions. The PHB II has a number of the sort that expand fighting ablities but don't remake the game. Others can be scattered about, like Oversized Two Weapon fighting from Complete Adventurer where you can wield a weapon in the off hand as if a light weapon.

At some level magic is still magic and so there will be situations a fighter should not be reasonably able to counter just by their class ablities. Flying for example remains a major potential advantage. But how is a someone without magic (or the natural benefit of which amounts to magic) supposed to counter that. They can't/shouldn't by class abilites, and should have to rely on items or casters or archers. But easier even then taking everything aerial would be create a spell called Grounding which no-save only lets a creature hover around 5 ft off the ground. Or something along those lines to nullify flying if it proves to be broken in a campaign.