How to Kill a Fish without Getting Wet

[antoin]

Except the fish is a group of Aboleths that our party is hell-bent on fighting, despite our close shave with a TPK thanks to them last session.

We are a 4th-level party that, for plot reasons, must hunt down and kill a group of aboleths that is controlling a group of ecoterrorists on a remote island. The terrorists are now our prisoners. The matter of the aboleths remains. The question is, with our 4th-level resources, how do we successfully take care of the aboleth problem without going underwater? Fighting an underwater monster that nearly TPKed us while we were on land(ish) seems to be suicide if we go swimming around for it, considering the massive penalties we will face for being underwater and the massive penalties the cunning aboleth won't face for being on its home turf.

The safest solution I can think of is to make the water toxic in some way; their home is an underwater small lake in the middle of an island in the middle of a lake in the middle of an island in the middle of an ocean. The small lake connects with the lake in the middle of the island.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions!
1. Spear-and Shield (Bash) Pally/Knight/Crusader/You Get The Idea
2. The Bomb-Throwing PF Alchemist
3. The Blasting Sorc
4. The Archer

[Gnorman]

Remove terrorists, leave island.

[antoin]

I wish. But my party will not leave. The aboleths must be taken care of, apparently.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Search the forum by google or the forum search for the story of steve the aboleth. Realize that just -one- aboleth can be a real problem for a level 4 party. Cut the ties between the eco-nuts and their aboleth masters, get in touch witih a druid whose level is high enough that this isn't above his pay-grade, move on.

If you must then you're not doing it from dry-land. You're going into the great below and quite probably into the water to get the bastards.

Step one, gain a few levels. One aboleth can swing above his weight class. A group working together will be nightmarish. You're not ready at level 4, period. Not unless you're all fairly skilled T1 casters.

Step two, protection from evil. These are creatures that screw with your head, magic to prevent that is your first priority. Protection from evil will stop the domination effect they're famous for and will give you a save bonus against their illusions.

Step three, magical detection. You need somebody on your team that can detect magical auras to help sort out what's illusion and what's real. Project image can have the bastard placing effects without even getting into a line of effect with the party. You need to be able to tell if its actually the aboleth or its an image and whether the terrain in front of and around you is altered or not.

Step four, seriously get a few more levels. This is going to -suck- if you go now. It's going to suck anyway but especially now since you don't have the tools to defend yourselves against aboleth trickery in a constant manner.

Step five, be prepared to lose. You're coming up against very dangerous foes. Withdrawal is an option you need to account for in your tactics and there's a very real possibility that one or more of you will be killed or enslaved.

Good luck.

[Bronk]

I think one aboleth could have taken down your party easily, let alone a group of them. It's like you stumbled into a boss fight made of boss fights.

By all rights, you should all have been killed, enslaved and/or transformed already. Since you haven't been, I think your DM went very easy on your group. That's good for you though, because to me that implies that you might be able to deal with them without getting killed the next time, by role playing your way through the situation.

Can you make some kind of rudimentary lathe? :)

Still, I think your best bet would be convincing the rest of your group to trap the aboleths, then promise to come back later. Maybe grenade guy can block the passage from the smallest lake to the bigger lake, trapping them inside? The rest of you can put up some kind of fence, so they don't just flop over the embankment? Then run.

[Garktz]

Blaster and bomber make things go bum, fish dies.
Collapse the island above the underground lake on their heads, when they come after you, snipe from far away...

It they are not going after you guys, dig holes in the island, fill with bombs and light them with a spell, when they go out to see who is making the cave collapse, you arleady have the arcer in position to snipe, traps ready, more bombs as traps and he blasting sorceror...

[Gildedragon]

Colapse the entrance to the lake. Quarantine the island. Leave. Warn everyone that it is a bad place.

[antoin]

I think the aboleths are scaled down a little bit. My character (the Alchemist) failed a Fort save against them but didn't do the whole "I don't breathe air" thing. But their mind control and illusions hit us hard. And the tentacle attack brought me down from full to bleeding out. Druids don't exist in the world, except for the terrorists...I guess...

Leaving the problem won't work, because it is the blaster's reason for playing the game. I might be able to convince us to leave and come back (it's less than a day's journey) so we can level (we have to level in a safe place).

[Kelb_Panthera]

I think the aboleths are scaled down a little bit. My character (the Alchemist) failed a Fort save against them but didn't do the whole "I don't breathe air" thing. But their mind control and illusions hit us hard. And the tentacle attack brought me down from full to bleeding out. Druids don't exist in the world, except for the terrorists...I guess...

Bah. I find it distasteful for a DM to make an entire class so hegemonic. Druids are only loosely associated by the power they serve. They shouldn't all think alike that way. Oh well.

Also, really? Paizo didn't nerf the aboleth enough?


Leaving the problem won't work, because it is the blaster's reason for playing the game. I might be able to convince us to leave and come back (it's less than a day's journey) so we can level (we have to level in a safe place).

If one of you got close enough for a save against the mucus cloud, how has that aboleth not been reduced to fish sticks? Anyway, remind the blaster that you guys barely survived an encounter with -one- aboleth. You're now considering an assault against -several- on their home-ground. That's borderline suicidal.

Like I said, protection from evil to protect your minds, detect magic and/or detect evil to try and sort out what's real vs what's not and to locate the aboleths, then hit them just as hard and as fast as you can. I'll add to that; try to come at them one at a time. They will devour you if they're together.

[tiercel]

Colapse the entrance to the lake. Quarantine the island. Leave. Warn everyone that it is a bad place.

Sounds reasonable, even practical, until you remember this is D&D:

1) Island quarantined, warnings sent
2) NPC adventuring parties make Gather Information checks; within seconds, the kingdom's taverns are abuzz with the sounds of countless barkeeps breathlessly sharing The Secret Tale of Forbidden Island and how a band of would-be Heroes was driven away, arms flailing and screaming in fear like a gaggle of elven schoolboys, doubtlessly leaving abandoned untold Treasures, wink wink
3) Drawn by the plot hook like blowflies to week-old rotting flesh, NPC adventurers mindlessly swarm to Forbidden Island
4) Aboleths revel in their luck of having inexhaustible supply of fresh mindslaves
5) PCs recieve tasteful fruit basket and flower arrangement thanking them for all their help; greeting card is signed with an eldritch rune that makes their frontal lobes try to crawl out through their nostrils. Also, the flowers are carnivorous. The fruit is quite tasty and not suspicious, habit-forming, or dangerous in any way whatsoever, nosireejimbob.
6) Kingdom begins to fall under the dark sway of the ever-growing legion in the aboleths' tentacular clutches. Iä! Iä! Ab'Oleth fhtagn!

Because D&D's actual Rule Zero: Everything Is Always the PCs' Fault

[khadgar567]

Sounds reasonable, even practical, until you remember this is D&D:

1) Island quarantined, warnings sent
2) NPC adventuring parties make Gather Information checks; within seconds, the kingdom's taverns are abuzz with the sounds of countless barkeeps breathlessly sharing The Secret Tale of Forbidden Island and how a band of would-be Heroes was driven away, arms flailing and screaming in fear like a gaggle of elven schoolboys, doubtlessly leaving abandoned untold Treasures, wink wink
3) Drawn by the plot hook like blowflies to week-old rotting flesh, NPC adventurers mindlessly swarm to Forbidden Island
4) Aboleths revel in their luck of having inexhaustible supply of fresh mindslaves
5) PCs recieve tasteful fruit basket and flower arrangement thanking them for all their help; greeting card is signed with an eldritch rune that makes their frontal lobes try to crawl out through their nostrils. Also, the flowers are carnivorous. The fruit is quite tasty and not suspicious, habit-forming, or dangerous in any way whatsoever, nosireejimbob.
6) Kingdom begins to fall under the dark sway of the ever-growing legion in the aboleths' tentacular clutches. Iä! Iä! Ab'Oleth fhtagn!

Because D&D's actual Rule Zero: Everything Is Always the PCs' Fault

Prepare some bombs
Group hug party
Pull the pins
Problem solved

[Berenger]

Do you have money and access to magic supplies?

Travel to town. Buy a scroll of Wall of Salt. Also, buy a potion of Glibness when the party isn't looking. Go back to the small lake on the island, cast Wall of Salt, topple it into the lake. Gobble the potion and try to convince everybody that those fresh-water aboleths can't possibly survive this. Hurry back to town to celebrate.

[Platymus Pus]

Sounds like a job for an electrician.

[khadgar567]

Sounds like a job for an electrician.

Yeaa but its hard to find enough powerful wizard to bombard a like with thunder so no luck mate ow hold on a second circle magiced fimbulwinter may solve the problem just change the spell to lightning

[Norin]

Not sure this helps at all, but my groups 1st encounter with an Aboleth ended rather quickly with our wizard using baleful transposition on the aboleth and a party member with means to escape the water effectively (or possibly ability to breathe underwater - i can't recall exact details).

It died rather quickly after our warblade skewerd it where it lay flopping around helplessly on dry land. :smalltongue:

[Crake]

this sounds like a job for ritualistic sacrifice. Since I can only assume that its the paladin who's so vehemently pushing to defeat the aboleths, I'm sure he won't mind willingly giving himself over as a sacrifice to summon something powerful enough. Crack open your nearest copy of the book of vile darkness, navigate to page 27 and get yourself as many bonuses as you can to your knowledge (religion) check. Snag yourself a juicy 35 on the check and you have your choice of an 18HD outsider for 4 hours as if summoned by greater planar ally. Find something equally horrifying, but 10 times as powerful, send it down into the deeps, walk away, dusting off your hands for a job well done, and for getting rid of that pesky paladin in one fell swoop.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Not sure this helps at all, but my groups 1st encounter with an Aboleth ended rather quickly with our wizard using baleful transposition on the aboleth and a party member with means to escape the water effectively (or possibly ability to breathe underwater - i can't recall exact details).

It died rather quickly after our warblade skewerd it where it lay flopping around helplessly on dry land. :smalltongue:

Your DM is kind or forgot the rules. The surface of a body of water breaks line of effect and baleful transposition further restricts targetting to both targets being in contact with the same solid something. Water is not solid.

[Crake]

Your DM is kind or forgot the rules. The surface of a body of water breaks line of effect and baleful transposition further restricts targetting to both targets being in contact with the same solid something. Water is not solid.

Where is that rule on the water surface breaking line of effect? I'm fairly sure I remember reading something like that, but it was specifically in relation to [Fire] spells, not all spells in general (assuming my memory is serving me correctly)

[Gnorman]

Am I just now noticing that, despite being described as a "fishlike amphibian," the aboleth is not, in fact, amphibious?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Where is that rule on the water surface breaking line of effect? I'm fairly sure I remember reading something like that, but it was specifically in relation to [Fire] spells, not all spells in general (assuming my memory is serving me correctly)

Dangit, I'm just off here recently. The rules for underwater combat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm#underwaterCombat) say that you have total cover from enemies on land if you're completely submerged. It then immediately follows up with the fact that magic ignores this except for effects requiring an attack roll and fire magic. This doesn't change the fact that water isn't solid, however, so baleful transposition -still- shouldn't have worked.

[Gallowglass]

I think you are missing the obvious solution.

Fight the aboleths and lose. They dominate you and turn you into the new eco terrorists. Then you get to play as eco terrorists!

Break the rest of your band out of jail. Become the new leaders because you are better than them.

Start wiping out fishing villages, let them bring in other adventurers to take care of you, then take them out to get their stuff.

The alchemist can research making sea mines. You can build the island into a cool fortress. All for your aboleth masters! Your paladin puts on his heavy plate mail of the deep and becomes a paladin of the ryleagh fish god of the deep!

That sounds like a fun campaign!

[waccio]

Are you sure is a GRUOP of aboleths, or just one and the party failed the desbelief iillusion checks?

If not the case, as said before, the encounter is way out of your league.. run to live another day or die..

[fishyfishyfishy]

this sounds like a job for ritualistic sacrifice. Since I can only assume that its the paladin who's so vehemently pushing to defeat the aboleths, I'm sure he won't mind willingly giving himself over as a sacrifice to summon something powerful enough. Crack open your nearest copy of the book of vile darkness, navigate to page 27 and get yourself as many bonuses as you can to your knowledge (religion) check. Snag yourself a juicy 35 on the check and you have your choice of an 18HD outsider for 4 hours as if summoned by greater planar ally. Find something equally horrifying, but 10 times as powerful, send it down into the deeps, walk away, dusting off your hands for a job well done, and for getting rid of that pesky paladin in one fell swoop.

May I sig this please? You made my day.

[ATHATH]

Are you sure is a GRUOP of aboleths, or just one and the party failed the desbelief iillusion checks?

If not the case, as said before, the encounter is way out of your league.. run to live another day or die..
Good point.

Maybe you could use a Potion of Glibness to turn the Aboleths on each other?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Most lake-dwelling aboleth keep a passage open to the sea. This is even more likely since you're on an island, which presumably means the coast is close-ish, no matter where the lake is, exactly. This probably means that poisoning the lake won't work terribly well - poisoning lakes requires a lot of poison in the first place, and that much more if it's constantly being diluted (it's also bad for the ecosystem, but that's going to happen anyway). However, you may be able to scout the coast of the island for caves, and seal them (with rubble, you have a bomb specialist, after all). After that, you can start chucking poison into the lake, or start casting destroy water, or throw in a recanter of endless water, or something like that.

If you get the aboleth out of the water, leave them to dry for a week, then approach, under the effect of protection from evil, and coup de grâce them with extreme prejudice.

[atemu1234]

High explosives would be fun, buy up as much alchemist's fire/oil as possible, draw them out into an attack, light the mothers up.

[ATHATH]

Ooh, that brings up a new idea:

Hire a nearby military to drop a few Voidstone Warheads on the island.

[daremetoidareyo]

Have you tried communicating with the aboleths as peers?

Seriously, they are highly intelligent and have memories from the onset of the universe. Maybe they have a plan. A few message spells and a show of good faith (one prisoner returned), maybe arrange a meeting to a mutually agreed to spot that contains a zone of truth?

Maybe that eco terrorism served a noble purpose through ignoble means.

I'm not saying submit to slavery, but perhaps there is a lateral move here.

[atemu1234]

Have you tried communicating with the aboleths as peers?

Seriously, they are highly intelligent and have memories from the onset of the universe. Maybe they have a plan. A few message spells and a show of good faith (one prisoner returned), maybe arrange a meeting to a mutually agreed to spot that contains a zone of truth?

Maybe that eco terrorism served a noble purpose through ignoble means.

I'm not saying submit to slavery, but perhaps there is a lateral move here.

That is a very elaborate method of suicide. May I suggest saving some time and throwing yourself on your sword instead?

[darksolitaire]

Aboleths are tricky blighters. My advice? Don't fight them on water so they lose their home field advantage. Stay good 40 ft away from all sources of water big enough to hide a huge creature at all times. When you get them to dry land, they'll eventually choke because of their aquatic nature. Also, anyone not consistently able to pass DC 17 will saves should be excluded from the fight.

[Alex12]

So here's what you need to do:

Step 1: Plug up all connections between the aboleths and the ocean. You've got a grenadier, you should be able to do this just fine.
Step 2: Leave. Don't worry, you'll be back.
Step 3: Search for an Eversoaking Sponge, which can be used to destroy 1000 gallons of water per round. Possibly the easiest way to do this is to figure out a way to get the DM to run you through the Dry Spell module.
Step 4: Come back and drain the lake in the middle. Since the inner lake communicates with the middle lake,this should drain the inner lake as well.
Step 5: Wait for the aboleths to shrivel up in the air
Step 6: Kill them.

[DarkestKnight]

I like Alex12's idea but would offer that Dust of Dryness may be easier acquire. And there are a million uses for the pellet created afterwards. (Like trying to get an aboleth to eat one. Oh look, another use for the paladin.)

[ATHATH]

I like Alex12's idea but would offer that Dust of Dryness may be easier acquire. And there are a million uses for the pellet created afterwards. (Like trying to get an aboleth to eat one. Oh look, another use for the paladin.)
Alas, one cannot use the Paladin for this because he might consider the pellet a poison or the tactic that you plan to do with it dishonorable fighting.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Alas, one cannot use the Paladin for this because he might consider the pellet a poison or the tactic that you plan to do with it dishonorable fighting.
You don't actually tell the paladin things, do you? Paladins are to be kept in locked boxes at all times, only taken out when you need a dash of pure spirit.

[ATHATH]

You don't actually tell the paladin things, do you? Paladins are to be kept in locked boxes at all times, only taken out when you need a dash of pure spirit.
Really? I just keep mine on a leash.

[Deophaun]

You don't actually tell the paladin things, do you? Paladins are to be kept in locked boxes at all times, only taken out when you need a dash of pure spirit.
I just occasionally hit mine with a ray of stupidity, because occasionally one gets it into his head that he needs skill points.

[Anlashok]

Also, really? Paizo didn't nerf the aboleth enough?

PF Aboleth has more HP, higher initiative, a worse attack routine (+10 1d6+5 vs +12 1d6+8 ), better reach, better fort and reflex, a stronger but easier to remove slime, a stronger dominate person and a noticeably worse mucus cloud.

Mucus cloud nerf hurts them, but other than that the only thing that's worse is their attack routine and a lot of their stuff is stronger.

[Twilightwyrm]

All of the salt. No, seriously: If you read the section about the Aboleth's skin is a series of rubbery, highly porous, membranes described as "too solid to be called mucus and too runny to be called skin". Further, they produce clouds of mucus to breath. In other words, they are essentially just overly complex sea slugs. We know aboleths can likely survive in salt water, what with living on the bottom of the ocean and whatnot, but even sea slugs which can survive in salt water die when the salt concentration gets too high. Therefore, so long as you can get the aboleths into a closed water system, you can raise the salt content of the water sufficient that they will die from the high salt content replacing the water in their bodies. Even if the DM rules that they simply go into dried up suspended animation instead, their hide only provides DR 5/Adamantine. Get some goggles, have your big guy swim down and chop them to bits between coming up for breaths.
Alternatively, Dust of Dryness, assuming you had it in sufficient quantities, may help. The rules state that it instantly sucks up 100 gallons of water. If you hit an aboleth with some as it surfaces (do be careful not to hit the water around it), it's highly porous skin means that most of the water would likely be instantly sucked from its body, instantly putting it in the immobile, leathery skin stage. Its dex will return at a rate of 2/minute, but as "an aboleth in this state that is badly cut or pierced leaks and quickly bleeds to death", 10 rounds should be more than enough time for the coup de grace. This tactic is preferable if you can isolate one at a time, since interference from the others might make it difficult to deliver the killing blow.
Finally, the aboleths are sponsoring eco-terrorists correct? Use exactly what they don't want to happen, and pollute the crap out of their underground lake, or the like. The salt option is only one, albeit effective, option out of many. Excessive toxins, arsenic, lead, whatever the most vile pollutants you can muster. Even if the aboleths have exceptional Con, their physiology would make them remarkably vulnerable to poisons and toxins in their environment. You can sort out purifying the natural ecosystem later, right now you are facing a challenge well and above what your party should be taking on, so any dirty or underhanded tactic you can think of should be fair game.

EDIT: I will echo what other here have said. If the Paladin objects, the Paladin can be excluded from, or not informed of, the plan. Asymmetric power requires asymmetric warfare. Kindly remind him also, that he should he insist on a stand-up fight and loses (which he will if he tries to at the moment), he not only fails in his duty to defend the innocent, but may well become a burden and a threat to others when he fall under the thrall of one of these creatures.

[Alex12]

I like Alex12's idea but would offer that Dust of Dryness may be easier acquire. And there are a million uses for the pellet created afterwards. (Like trying to get an aboleth to eat one. Oh look, another use for the paladin.)

I'm not so sure Dust of Dryness would be easier. Or, more importantly, cheaper. I'm not sure how big this lake is, exactly, but a cubic foot of water is 8 gallons in D&D-land. A 5x5x5 cube of water is 125 cubic feet, and thus is precisely 1000 gallons in D&D-land. Presumably, this lake of aboleths is bigger than a single square, and so is considerably bigger. Dust of Dryness costs 850gp for a paltry 100 gallons worth of absorbed water, while an eversoaking sponge does 10 times that each round.

On a side note, a gallon of water is 8 pounds. A cubic foot of water contains 8 gallons. A cubic foot of water weighs 60 pounds. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createWater.htm) Thus, in D&D-land, 8*8=60.

[Kelb_Panthera]

PF Aboleth has more HP,

8 of them. It's a 20% increase and less than one hit from a melee warrior.


higher initiative,

This would be a lot more useful if it wasn't an ambush predator. Initiative's not a factor until they actually engage with the thing, at which point it's already done some damage. It helps but not nearly as much as it would if the aboleth was a straight-up face wrecker.


a worse attack routine (+10 1d6+5 vs +12 1d6+8 )

This one is pretty damning. Melee isn't an aboleth's field of expertise to begin with and this makes it even worse.


better reach,

If you're in the water with it, you're screwed. If you're not, it's 10ft land speed says its reach doesn't really help much. He can maybe trip incoming chargers now.


better fort and reflex,

The fort boost is 1 point but nice I guess. The 2 point boost to reflex doesn't suck.


a stronger but easier to remove slime,

That second point is a -massive- nerf. It's likely the diffence between a nasty debuff and an effect that will probably kill the character or force him to retire. The old version was; you've got 5~ish minutes to get remove disease or you're going to have to find an upper middle level caster to keep you from taking 1d12 of damage every 10 minutes until you die. A 4th level cleric isn't going to be able to keep up with cure spells and nobody carries around barrels of water. The afflicted character is stuck or dead, in all likelihood unless the DM is kind enough to have a large-ish settlement attached to a river that connects to the body of water the aboleth was inhabiting.


a stronger dominate

More of a lateral movement. The old one has a lower DC, but it's harder to break and doesn't provoke AoO's. The new one doesn't have the range limit and has a longer reach than the fixed 30ft of the old version. Aboleths are smart enough to aim at the weak willed anyway.


and a noticeably worse mucus cloud.

Exactly. In either case the duration of the water breathing effect is probably the remaining duration on the victim's life. In the old case, however, the victim was trapped in the water with the aboleth. Now they can just cary a bucket.

Some minor buffs, one lateral change, some minor nerfs and two massive nerfs makes it an overall nerf.

[daremetoidareyo]

Lot's of smart things.

I'd like to take a moment to advocate parlaying with the aboleth again. You don't need the paladin to left in the dark. It's scary. It's brave. And if the DM is playing the aboleth right, all you need is something that advances a mutual interest between the aboleth and your party.

I'm sure that with the proper approach, you can cut a deal, even if it is temporary until you gain a level or two. Surely that paladin has a few diplomacy points. Obviously, the aboleth has an agenda, perhaps there is a different way to satisfy that need.

[atemu1234]

I'd like to take a moment to advocate parlaying with the aboleth again. You don't need the paladin to left in the dark. It's scary. It's brave. And if the DM is playing the aboleth right, all you need is something that advances a mutual interest between the aboleth and your party.

I'm sure that with the proper approach, you can cut a deal, even if it is temporary until you gain a level or two. Surely that paladin has a few diplomacy points. Obviously, the aboleth has an agenda, perhaps there is a different way to satisfy that need.

And again, no, this is a bad idea. Talking to it involves being within range of a dominate, a charm, or any number of other bad things that the aboleth can do to you.

[Deophaun]

And again, no, this is a bad idea. Talking to it involves being within range of a dominate, a charm, or any number of other bad things that the aboleth can do to you.
Not necessarily, though at level 4 it does involve a non-good cleric (or Dread Necro) that has commanded a zombie/skeleton, access to a pearl of speech for said zombie/skeleton, and undead eyes, the #3 most underrated obscure spell. But with all those, you don't have to get anywhere near the aboleth to parlay with it.

[Coidzor]

Mutual interests between a Paladin and an Aboleth are... Rare.

To say the least.

[Kelb_Panthera]

A note; I somehow convinced myself that aboleths were CR 4 when I made my initial comment. Given that they are, in fact, CR 7, I really want to re-emphasize just how very bad an idea it is to try and face a group of them at your current level. Just..... Don't. You -will- die. TPK city, man.

[daremetoidareyo]

A note; I somehow convinced myself that aboleths were CR 4 when I made my initial comment. Given that they are, in fact, CR 7, I really want to re-emphasize just how very bad an idea it is to try and face a group of them at your current level. Just..... Don't. You -will- die. TPK city, man.

And if you are facing them at level 4, the DM is probably trying to set up a plot point not meant for you to kill an aboleth. If you have an intelligent DM, they are signalling to you that the aboleth is out of your reach right now. That is why it seemed nerfed. The DM saved your butts.

Either that or he didn't know what he was doing.

This is all evidence that you should be less focused on killing the aboleth. Parley! Arcane mark messages on fish and handle animal them down to the aboleth.

Edit: Dm weighed in. Your DM knows where you source your tricks! Nothing here will work. Unless he's a fair DM. Fair DMs agree with the sea slug salt idea. Or playing aboleths as intelligence 19 immortal chessmasters who care not for anything but their own nebulous stuff. wink wink

[JBarca]

Howdy! DM of this game here!

Something antoin forgot to mention is the fact that the party is, in fact, Gestalt. Thus they're not quite 4th level in power.

Also, the world is relatively low-magic. A lot of these solutions rely on magics that may not be available (for instance, Undead are pretty much unheard of outside of myth, and Wall of Salt would be the peak of mortal magic and thus rare). Likewise, though, the Aboleths have been modified accordingly (and the players did know this already).

The game is 3.P, with the emphasis on 3.5 (PF is typically allowed to be used, though (see: Alchemist)). Also, the party, thanks to their knowledge checks, is basically aware that Aboleths are creepy fish monsters that prey on people. In combat, they witnessed some sort of slime that turned flesh bubbly, the Hypnotic Pattern SLA, and some illusions. They really don't know anything else about these guys!

Keep the discussion up, of course. There was at least one comment that sparked an idea for me that made the next session much more fun :smallsmile:.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Howdy! DM of this game here!

Something antoin forgot to mention is the fact that the party is, in fact, Gestalt. Thus they're not quite 4th level in power.

Also, the world is relatively low-magic. A lot of these solutions rely on magics that may not be available (for instance, Undead are pretty much unheard of outside of myth, and Wall of Salt would be the peak of mortal magic and thus rare). Likewise, though, the Aboleths have been modified accordingly (and the players did know this already).

The game is 3.P, with the emphasis on 3.5 (PF is typically allowed to be used, though (see: Alchemist)). Also, the party, thanks to their knowledge checks, is basically aware that Aboleths are creepy fish monsters that prey on people. In combat, they witnessed some sort of slime that turned flesh bubbly, the Hypnotic Pattern SLA, and some illusions. They really don't know anything else about these guys!

Gestalt is only worth one or two levels at best. It makes their skill-set broader, not more powerful.

Please define low-magic. I always get a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach when I see that phrase.

What kind of nerfs did you give the aboleths?


Keep the discussion up, of course. There was at least one comment that sparked an idea for me that made the next session much more fun :smallsmile:.

I have a sneaking suspicion I may be responsible for that. :smalleek: Tell your players I'm sorry. :smallredface:

[JBarca]

Gestalt is only worth one or two levels at best. It makes their skill-set broader, not more powerful.

Please define low-magic. I always get a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach when I see that phrase.

What kind of nerfs did you give the aboleths?



I have a sneaking suspicion I may be responsible for that. :smalleek: Tell your players I'm sorry. :smallredface:

Yes, I know what Gestalt does, roughly. But see below.

Basically, magic items are rarer and the max level of spells that people are able to attain is 4th. I promise that I am aware of the consequences of this. I know that the game is designed around characters having access to certain amounts of wealth and certain capabilities through items/spells. I like to think I've got a fairly decent idea what individual characters are capable of and base everything on that, so I don't really pay attention to CR anymore. That is: encounters are designed based on the party, not the system's expectations for a party. Does that assuage your concerns?

Regarding the Aboleths: I can't very well tell you that, can I? I would rather the players not know the stats of their enemies, and I would imagine they'd feel the same way.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Basically, magic items are rarer and the max level of spells that people are able to attain is 4th. I promise that I am aware of the consequences of this. I know that the game is designed around characters having access to certain amounts of wealth and certain capabilities through items/spells. I like to think I've got a fairly decent idea what individual characters are capable of and base everything on that, so I don't really pay attention to CR anymore. That is: encounters are designed based on the party, not the system's expectations for a party. Does that assuage your concerns?

It's not my cup of tea, generally speaking, but it sounds like you know what you're doing. Heh, it's actually probably less extreme than my own version of a minimal magic setup. I don't use that set of restrictions very often but I have given the matter quite some thought.


Regarding the Aboleths: I can't very well tell you that, can I? I would rather the players not know the stats of their enemies, and I would imagine they'd feel the same way.

Fair enough.

[Coidzor]

Also, the party, thanks to their knowledge checks, is basically aware that Aboleths are creepy fish monsters that prey on people. In combat, they witnessed some sort of slime that turned flesh bubbly, the Hypnotic Pattern SLA, and some illusions. They really don't know anything else about these guys!

Translation: Have 2 backup characters made by next session, OP.

[antoin]

Sounds like a job for an electrician.

Any physicists/chemists out there who know how to electrocute an entire lake without relying on fickle lightning? A Seeking Ray directed at the water was effective at damaging both aboleths in the first fight....


this sounds like a job for ritualistic sacrifice. Since I can only assume that its the paladin who's so vehemently pushing to defeat the aboleths, I'm sure he won't mind willingly giving himself over as a sacrifice to summon something powerful enough. Crack open your nearest copy of the book of vile darkness, navigate to page 27 and get yourself as many bonuses as you can to your knowledge (religion) check. Snag yourself a juicy 35 on the check and you have your choice of an 18HD outsider for 4 hours as if summoned by greater planar ally. Find something equally horrifying, but 10 times as powerful, send it down into the deeps, walk away, dusting off your hands for a job well done, and for getting rid of that pesky paladin in one fell swoop.

JBarca? DM? Please? :smallcool:


Aboleths are tricky blighters. My advice? Don't fight them on water so they lose their home field advantage. Stay good 40 ft away from all sources of water big enough to hide a huge creature at all times. When you get them to dry land, they'll eventually choke because of their aquatic nature. Also, anyone not consistently able to pass DC 17 will saves should be excluded from the fight.

The problem is, I have no problem waiting this fight out, but my party is bloodthirsty and feels that "if we don't corner them and force a fight, they'll get away and all this was for nothing." (I find the aboleths getting away to be an entirely desirable outcome, personally, but that's not the point of this thread). None of us are close to consistently being able to pass such Will saves.


Howdy! DM of this game here!


well fancy seeing you here...


Something antoin forgot to mention is the fact that the party is, in fact, Gestalt. Thus they're not quite 4th level in power.


This also requires clarification. Only the paladin and archer are gestalt. Because of the low-magic world, being a caster such as an Alchemist and Sorc are single-classed.


Keep the discussion up, of course. There was at least one comment that sparked an idea for me that made the next session much more fun :smallsmile:.

:smallfrown:



Translation: Have 2 backup characters made by next session, OP.

Welp.

Also, for everyone's reference, we are quite a magic-deprived party. The Alchemist can brew potions, but other than that we have no magical crafting and no magical items* that pertain to the problem at hand. The solution will have to rely on either 2nd-level spells or mundane means. The Alchemist-grenadier does have a respectable Craft(Alchemy) skill, so if something needs to be whipped up, it's not out of the realm of possibility.

*We recently discovered we have a magic bow that functions underwater and gives the wielder a Water Breathing effect. The immense problems with fighting the aboleths on their terms remain, however.

[daremetoidareyo]

Welp.

Also, for everyone's reference, we are quite a magic-deprived party. The Alchemist can brew potions, but other than that we have no magical crafting and no magical items* that pertain to the problem at hand. The solution will have to rely on either 2nd-level spells or mundane means. The Alchemist-grenadier does have a respectable Craft(Alchemy) skill, so if something needs to be whipped up, it's not out of the realm of possibility.

*We recently discovered we have a magic bow that functions underwater and gives the wielder a Water Breathing effect. The immense problems with fighting the aboleths on their terms remain, however.

Ok, if talking to the aboleth itself is out as an option, let's continue to think laterally, while respecting the paladin's presence.

Idea 1.)
Maybe you need to appeal to a higher power: Become quest givers. Put that magic bow up for grabs! It goes to anyone who brings you the aboleth's carcass. You aren't the only starved maniacs. Put a bounty on that thing's head.

Idea 2.)
What are the local sentient submarine races? How likely are they to have also felt the effects of whatever the aboleth's schemes are? (Answer: Very.) Get down there, and get fear mongering! Really make those sahuagin or sea elves or mermaids or whatever all Cold war 911 terrified of the terrible aboleth presence, that they basically provide you a veritable seameat cannonade to wage war against the nasty sea slug. Evil submarine races are more likely to be pushed this way. Remember: Know your audience. Anyway, the sentient races closest to him are more likely to hate the aboleth than you are, so use that! Paladin totally agrees. It's not cowardice to call in allies!

[Kelb_Panthera]

Convince the paladin//XXXX that going back in would be suicide. Because it would. Even -with- gear this would be a bad fight for a party your level with just one aboleth. You're going in without gear against several. Even with the DM's nerfs to the aboleth this looks like a monumentally stupid plan of action.

If you can't convince the paladin that this is a crowning moment of stupid, convince the rest of the party and inform the paladin that you guys are leaving and he's free to follow or not at his discretion. Don't let him drag you to your deaths or worse.

Seriously, you know they can swing illusions around, you know they can mind-slave people (I think), you know they can wreck face in melee. How is voluntarily entering into combat with that not an obviously terrible plan?

I know I've said this several times now but it cannot be emphasized enough. The only way you don't TPK in this scenario is DM mercy or extraordinary blind luck. Those are not things to rely on.