Fireball caster builds [solved]

[. Shadowblade .]

Hello,

is it possible to make another spellcaster build which can cast fireballs all day without resting ?
The only one I know is Monk Lvl 20 - Way of the 4 elements with Flames of the Phoenix:


PERFECT SELF
At 20th leveI, when you roll for initiative and have no ki
points remaining, you regain 4 ki points.

who can use (especially Aarakocra) Hit & Run tactic - enter the combat (even without Ki), gain 4 KI on Initiative roll if he has 0 Ki, drop the fireball (Flames of the Phoenix) and retreat / fly away from combat. And he can start another bombing run...

[lebefrei]

At what point in that description do you think that you have left combat? Tactical maneuvers are most definitely part of combat. No good DM would let you run that exploit, it's nonsense.

[Lines]

At what point in that description do you think that you have left combat? Tactical maneuvers are most definitely part of combat. No good DM would let you run that exploit, it's nonsense.

It's twentieth level on the second worst subclass in the game on a class with a normally useless level 20 ability. Any DM should let him run that exploit.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Given that a Wizard could cast something like 15 fireballs per long rest at level 20, most of them at heightened effect, I might allow it as DM (but only if you could convince me you'd actually left combat which would involve staying out of range of all your enemies attacks and breaking line of sight for several rounds). It just doesn't seem very useful, though.

[JumboWheat01]

Relying entirely on fireball is not a good idea. Fire is one of the most commonly resisted elements available to a caster, and there are a good few flat-out immunities here or there.

[. Shadowblade .]

Given that a Wizard could cast something like 15 fireballs per long rest at level 20, most of them at heightened effect...

what does that Wizard need to be able to cast 15 fireballs per long rest?


Relying entirely on fireball is not a good idea. Fire is one of the most commonly resisted elements available to a caster, and there are a good few flat-out immunities here or there.

I understand - I want just different point of view of more experienced players.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

what does that Wizard need to be able to cast 15 fireballs per long rest?.

What does he need or why does he need to?

What does he need? Just to spend all his 3rd level and higher spell slots on Fireball.

Why does he need to? He doesn't, he has better things to do, that's why this isn't a great build.

[Lines]

I'm not seeing how a twentieth level monk from the worst monk subclass casting a level 3 fireball every two rounds is in any way broken.

[lebefrei]

Broken isn't the issue. It's clearly exploiting something that no one would mistake for an allowed rule. It's bad precedent to let players do that. The subclass is broken, everyone knows that. Cheating isn't the answer.

We've had a UA article about changing classes. The 20 feature could be "gain 1 ki point every round in combat" and I'd be fine with that. I just don't want my players looking for ways to cheat. I hate seeing exploits passed around, personally.

[. Shadowblade .]

@ ShikomeKidoMi - true

[Hrugner]

It sets a bad precedent for any normally effective character who took three levels for assassin rogue though.

[Lines]

Broken isn't the issue. It's clearly exploiting something that no one would mistake for an allowed rule. It's bad precedent to let players do that. The subclass is broken, everyone knows that. Cheating isn't the answer.

We've had a UA article about changing classes. The 20 feature could be "gain 1 ki point every round in combat" and I'd be fine with that. I just don't want my players looking for ways to cheat. I hate seeing exploits passed around, personally.

It's not cheating. It's using the rules as they stand (RAW) and fluff wise it's leaving the fight to meditate.

[JellyPooga]

Sorcerer 5/Warlock 5 gets an awful lot of Fireballs a day, depending on how often you Short Rest. It's not quite all-day, but you do get (2 per short rest)+4 by converting all your 1st and 2nd level slots into 3rds.

[Addaran]

It's not cheating. It's using the rules as they stand (RAW) and fluff wise it's leaving the fight to meditate.

Leaving the combat and meditating in 6 secondes? You did say casting fireball every two rounds.

Sorry, but that's not how "in combat" work. You'd need to be out-of-range, out-of-sight for signifiant time. Just hanging back not attacking for 6 secondes won't make it a new combat.

For exemple, you think i could stab you, retreat, then come back 6 secondes later to cast charm person without disadvantage (not in combat!)?

[MrStabby]

It is based on initiative rolling. Is anyone seriously suggesting that if someone alone spends an action to hide during combat that they will reroll initiative coming back in? All of those rogues using cunning action to hide then main action to shoot can't do this because they would reroll initiative and their action would be in a different part of the cycle? How about spells like blink - you cant get further out of combat than being in another plane of existence but the spell doesnt work is every time you return you re-roll initiative.

How often is your DM letting you roll for initiative?

[Lines]

It is based on initiative rolling. Is anyone seriously suggesting that if someone alone spends an action to hide during combat that they will reroll initiative coming back in? All of those rogues using cunning action to hide then main action to shoot can't do this because they would reroll initiative and their action would be in a different part of the cycle? How about spells like blink - you cant get further out of combat than being in another plane of existence but the spell doesnt work is every time you return you re-roll initiative.

How often is your DM letting you roll for initiative?

You're right, let's fix this. Monk capstone is you regain 2 ki per round in combat, done.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

It is based on initiative rolling. Is anyone seriously suggesting that if someone alone spends an action to hide during combat that they will reroll initiative coming back in? All of those rogues using cunning action to hide then main action to shoot can't do this because they would reroll initiative and their action would be in a different part of the cycle? How about spells like blink - you cant get further out of combat than being in another plane of existence but the spell doesnt work is every time you return you re-roll initiative.
No one is seriously suggesting any of those things... Although, actually if you used an action to hide in combat and then stayed hidden for long enough without being found, say a minute, I probably would have you reroll initiative if combat reoccurs.

[Foxhound438]

>be warlock
>fiend pact for flavor reasons
>flavored raisins if you prefer
>get to level 20
>perma-TP into pit fiend
>fireball is a cantrip now
>not as good as close in wombo combo

edit: elemonk is neat for this but there's better things you could do. MC ranger 2 for hunter's mark, you have 4 attacks at d10+d6+5, which adds up to more than a fireball against a single target, and with the same 4 points you get to do it 4 times. Even out of ki you do more damage just hitting them with mark up.